I know what you mean about some of the maps, back/middle/front desn't really feel very relevant when you go through the map and what you want to see at the back just isn't there.
But (and this has also been put into one of the mission screens loading tips, thanksfully) outside maps simply don't have a back/middle/front and you cant define where anything goes in them, it's purely random.
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At the moment, we can choose to have an ally, an additional mob, etc. to spawn in either the Front, the Middle or the Back of a map. It seems to work fine most of the time if there is just one objective you want to spawn. But it can be quite annoying sometimes if you have more than one items and they are set to spawn upon the completion of a sequent of events.
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In my experience objectives that spawn on completion of others have worse problems than dodgy labeling of spawn points. It appears that the items that are on the map from the start get first choice of spawn points and anything that comes later has to fit in around them. You may find you can get more consistant results if you set everything to appear from the beginning. If you can, then on a linear map players should still be completing objectives in the 'right' order anyway.
"If there's anything worse than being sacrificed, it's being sacrificed incompetantly."
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But (and this has also been put into one of the mission screens loading tips, thanksfully) outside maps simply don't have a back/middle/front and you cant define where anything goes in them, it's purely random.
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Oh, did not see that. Aaah, that is annoying.
I have a few concepts (like a detective story or Indiana Jones in CoT caves) and I want to write in the mission some kind of progression as it go along. Like I said before, a sequence of objectives/events building up to the final moment. It should flow with the movement of players along the map. It is rather stupid to have to go back and forth the same place trying to find where the things are.
Motif of most of the MA missions I have played (and some are really good) are rather much like those old dev-design ones: you enter the map, go through a killing spree (if you can't stealth it), hit the boss/grab the hostage/click something, get out. That's it. It is getting a bit repetitive now - even with the lastest injection of MA creativity. I suppose we can break that progression down into the 5 allowing mission spaces we have; but that would break the sense of build-up every time you zone in and out. It really does spoil the mood.
And some of the maps are quite big. If it is allowed to strategically place objectives at various point of interest, it would really add a new dimension and excitment of story writing.
Without some kind of precision spawning, it really makes some good concepts hard to come into being.
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At the moment, we can choose to have an ally, an additional mob, etc. to spawn in either the Front, the Middle or the Back of a map. It seems to work fine most of the time if there is just one objective you want to spawn. But it can be quite annoying sometimes if you have more than one items and they are set to spawn upon the completion of a sequent of events.
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In my experience objectives that spawn on completion of others have worse problems than dodgy labeling of spawn points. It appears that the items that are on the map from the start get first choice of spawn points and anything that comes later has to fit in around them. You may find you can get more consistant results if you set everything to appear from the beginning. If you can, then on a linear map players should still be completing objectives in the 'right' order anyway.
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Tried that trick. Only works sometimes. Occassionally, I still have to go back and forth (mostly going back) in order to find the new spawn.
That still did not solve the problem of spawn point in outdoor map. I know it is random; and that ruin of grandeur of the boss fight. Put it this way, in the final part of an ITF, it will not quite the same if Romulus is spawn not in his usual spot but somewhere else - it kind of ruin the artistic presentation of an important fight.
I do believe that precision spawning will benefit a lot of story writers.
I fully agree with the OP, and it is the main reason I feel that a map editor (a limited one at LEAST) is required for any serious attempt at making a serious arc. This random stuff just makes every arc ridiculous. Unless by some miracle all the objectives spawn where you want them, in which case it'll only do so once every N mission anyway because of Random.
I have several stories I really want to make, but I won't because they are serious stories, and would be ruined by even tiny ammounts of Silly. (Imagine Scarface, where for one scene in the middle of the movie, Tony Montana does a Carrot Top impression. You wouldn't take that movie seriously after that.)
Just found this over on the US forum. They are asking for more specific spawn locations too:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....=0#Post13317607
That is really we should ask the dev to add into the MA system.
At the moment, we can choose to have an ally, an additional mob, etc. to spawn in either the Front, the Middle or the Back of a map. It seems to work fine most of the time if there is just one objective you want to spawn. But it can be quite annoying sometimes if you have more than one items and they are set to spawn upon the completion of a sequent of events.
For example, I was setting up a nice little story once using a large Longbow map. I think it is Map 15 (unlockable, by the way) - a straight and long Longbow base. I chose that particular one because I want to investigate a few things along the way from the mission door to the end room and fight the boss there. Like a detective story (CoX-style, if you must) with layers of events: one leading to the other in sequence. In that one, I think, first I want to click a glowie, then move on to pick up an NPC sidekick, who together will help me to unlock a safe, then fight an ambush and then some of the final boss'es lackeys. And finally, after acquiring all the clues, fight the boss in the deepest part of the base. But I ended up runing up and down the map just to fulfil all my objectives. And worse, the final boss spawned somewhere in the middle section of the map instead of the 'Back'. It kind of spoil the whole story a bit (well alot, really).
Another example is the Skyway city map. In fact, outdoor map is terrible in finding and tracking your objectives. Most frequently used part of that map is the upper most L-shape motorway. To be honest, I don't seem to remember I need to go under that part in any of the dev-design missions. You fight along the way and complete the objective near the end of the motorway where there are helicopters guarded by Longbow wardens. That's it (or lead the hostage back to the mission door). When I use that map and set the objectives to spawn near the Front, then Middle and Back in one of my missions, they ended up spawning nearly everywhere. Front, Middle and Back in an outdoor map do not make any logical sense at all. Try the Atlas Park map - the Ruin version is the worst!
And I think some of us want to write something like a TF or SF. It would be nice to have the final AVs spawn in somewhere special - like the door of Atlas Park City Hall or the deepest part of the cave guarded by mobs. It has a finale or climax feel to it. Just imagine how comical it will be if, in LRSF, Freedom Phalanx is spawned at a random location instead of that nice plaza in the centre of Atlas.
See. Sometimes a story flows with the shape of a map. It would be nice to have some precision in picking the location where an objective is spawned.