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any thoughts?
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Does anything currently allow players to do untyped (and therefore unresistable) damage in PVE? My understanding was that the Devs had ruled this out as having too many potentially game-engine breaking consequences, but perhaps that's changed?
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Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
Nothing at present does untyped damage, although the mechanic to do so is there. At one point they considered Assassing Strike for (some) untyped damage.
It quite clearly is game breaking, But not in above system. The untyped damage would be unbuffable, and controllers base damage is not exactly high. In fact, its low! 
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Nothing at present does untyped damage, although the mechanic to do so is there. At one point they considered Assassing Strike for (some) untyped damage.
It quite clearly is game breaking, But not in above system. The untyped damage would be unbuffable, and controllers base damage is not exactly high. In fact, its low!
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As I recall, it was viewed as game breaking not because you could do too much damage to the things you're meant to be attacking, but because lots of things you aren't meant to damage at all are protected by 100% damage resistance, which is bypassed by untyped damage.
So it doesn't really matter if the base damage is low - if a system lets you break something unbreakable it's... err... broken.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
Well my Grav/Sonic loves it - huge dps increase there - he relies on debuffing enemy resist rather than buffing damage so the unbuffable aspect is bypassed.
My Mind 'troller would probably see a decent increase vs resistant foes but a drop vs unresisting ones.
I'm not totally convinced it would have much if any effect on fire/kins - do they actually see much benifit from containment - I was under the impression much of their damage comes from the rabid heavily buffed imps and I don't believe containment applies there although I may be wrong on that and the mobs don't tend to last long enough to be hit by much more than the opening attacks.
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant
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Nothing at present does untyped damage
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Hamidon does that's why it's pointless having some toggles on when fighting him. 
However, I do like your idea Cognito. You've clearly put some thought into it. 
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No thanks. I like my Mind/Emp as he is now and I like my containment as it currently works. Bear in mind that is a "like"... I still would prefer to have him back to his pre containment days. But seeing as that isn't going to happen, leave well enough alone. If I want more damage I play on my Scrapper or me Blaster.
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I'm not totally convinced it would have much if any effect on fire/kins - do they actually see much benifit from containment - I was under the impression much of their damage comes from the rabid heavily buffed imps and I don't believe containment applies there although I may be wrong on that and the mobs don't tend to last long enough to be hit by much more than the opening attacks.
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THe ghastly combintion is the effect of containment and +damage boost on hot feet.
Fire is meant to be the "damage" set, fair enough. Keep imps buffed and beautiful, they are super squishy to compensate.
I'm fairly convinced this would curtail the Fire/Kin effect - without nerfing Fire or Kin, and without being a totally nerftastic nerf to Fire / Kin (as you say, they will still have buffed Fire Imps and lots of other groovy effects)
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Nothing at present does untyped damage, although the mechanic to do so is there. At one point they considered Assassing Strike for (some) untyped damage.
It quite clearly is game breaking, But not in above system. The untyped damage would be unbuffable, and controllers base damage is not exactly high. In fact, its low!
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As I recall, it was viewed as game breaking not because you could do too much damage to the things you're meant to be attacking, but because lots of things you aren't meant to damage at all are protected by 100% damage resistance, which is bypassed by untyped damage.
So it doesn't really matter if the base damage is low - if a system lets you break something unbreakable it's... err... broken.
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Thats actually a fair point. However, Off the top of my head the only thing that has 100% resistance I can think of is,intermittently, the Honoree. Am I missing something?
(I would imagine phased toons etc remain unaffected by untyped damage).
And civilians in mayhem missions. Phase may well be bypassed by untyped damage.
I think the mechanic for Phase Shift is different from 100% resistance but maybe somebody could check with Hamidon
Civillians I didnt think about. Im not sure controllers can launch any attacks on them (unlike villains) so the point may be moot. Even if its not, then would untyped damage actually damage them? again - im not sure the mechanic is untyped damage.
Hi folks. Here's a little thought I had about reworking Containment.
However, there is a lot of discussion about this combination, which has extremely high damage capability. It is, as they say, an "outlier". The issue here is that Containment makes this combination outstanding when applied to hot feet, when buffed by Kinetics (or indeed, any damage buff).
Historically, you may know that Containment was brought in a few issues into the games. Hence, the initial primary powersets where designed without containment in mind. My understanding was that containment was introduced to allow controllers at least some ability to solo, albeit slowly, by giving them a bit more damage.
Now, I note three problems with the controller AT.
1. Fire/Kins. Move along, nothing to see here...
2. AV's. Not that controllers are bad, its just that holds / control is of mediocre effect against AV's, and the controller ususally ends up being just a "sub-par" defender against them.
3. Some sets, notably Earth still do terrible damage. The reason really boils down to high level of resistance, particularly to smash/lethal damage, but the same can apply to mind when fighting robots etc. THe issue is that with such low base damage, when a controller fights enemies resistant to that damage type, it turns from a marathon into a triatholon. Done three times. With a broken leg.
So I thought of a possible solution addressing these three concerns. Adapting Containment.
The principle would be that a controller, once he has an enemy "contained" would really have control. He would know how to bypass the enemies protection, manipulate them so he could attack their weak spots.
Hence, 2 effects.
1. Controllers, if attacking a "contained" enemy, ignore HALF of that enemies defence. They will manipulate the enemy so that their attacks get through.
2. More importantly, they cease to do double damage. Instead, damage is calculated normally. In addition, the enemy receives UNTYPED damage equal to the base damage of the attack. The untyped damage is unaffected by buffs or debuffs.
Now, bear with me (obviously figures may have to be adjusted. +150% base damage untyped? +75% base damage untyped? 75% for immobilise, 150% for holds? etc)
What effect does this give?
1. Hotfeet remains a groovy damage power, but it no longer gets mind blowing due to damage buffs. Note that the bonus damage is a) immune to debuffs and b) cannot be resisted before everyone screams "Nerfherder"
2. This would significantly boost Controllers versus AV. The ability to do low, but untyped damage, would up their damage against AV's. This may put them at a more level pegging in terms of AV fight desirability.
3. When facing a foe resistant to your "conventional" damage type (whatever that may be), you are no longer fighting an uphill battle. New containment "smooths" the damage output against different foes. When controllers have low damage anyway, avoiding the awfullness of heavily resisted damage is important.
POssible Objections:
1. ZOMG NERF!!!
Figures are up for debate. Its the principle. I calculate this would be a low damage nerf against unresisting enemies, and a significant damage buff against resistant ones and AV's. And it helps versus high defence enemies too.
2. ZOMG NERF FIRE/KINS!!!
I'd rather not get sidetracked, and you may feel this is another nerfherding thread. Fair enough, but a) There is a lot of feeling that Fire/Kin's are a problem which you may or may not disagree with and b) This provides an elegant solution which does not actually nerf Fire Control or Kinetics sets specifically but stops the out of control synergy of the two together.
3. ZOMG BUFF VS AV'S!!!
Yes, untyped damage is potentially dangerous, especially vs AV's. However, look more closely. Controllers have few damage attacks, of generally limited effectiveness. Untyped damage will not be high. Bear in mind in CANNOT get buffed, so Fulcrum Shifted, Fortitude'd, Assault'd, Metabolic Accelerat'd Utyped damage is not going to happen.
Possible Things to think about...
Alter untyped damage according to type of mez. Maybe 125% for held, 100% for stun/sleep, 75% for immobilise. The more power you have, the more you can bypass the enemies protection. This may help soloing/ST (the aim of containment?) whilst stopping out of control AoE damage (the role of blasters?)
Hold back your flaming, consider the figures plucked out of the ether, then.. any thoughts?