Question on Stealth Cap


Angelic_EU

 

Posted

I know that:

Hide + Stealth + Sealth recipe will always at stealth cap.

How about:

Hide + Super Speed + Stealth recipe?? Would it still hit stealth cap??

Also, what is the stealth radius that SS comes with?

Thanks


 

Posted

Super Speed doesn't have Stealth in PvP, so no.

The "PvE Stealth Cap" works a bit differently. If Hide on its own doesn't completely hide you from foes (Rikti Drones, and Snipers plus some others), those foes will be able to see you regardless of how much stealth you stack. The only difference will be that more stealth reduces the distance they'll start shooting at you.

Super Speed + Stealth (or Stealth IO) = Hidden in PvE.
Hide on its own = Hidden in PvE.


 

Posted

Actually, rikti drone don't follow the normal stealth rules. They don't have +perception, they just ignore hide completely, so they will se a hidden target at the same distance and an unhidden one. the amount of stealth makes no difference.

Snipers, on the other hand, follow normal rules, the more stealth you have the closser you can get before they see you.


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Posted

You sure about that? I've just finished taking a Stalker to 50 and I haven't noticed any difference between Rikti/Arachnos/PPD drones and Nemesis Snipers. I could swear I've sneaked up on drones before...

I'm interested to test that out with Arachnos Disruptors now. Would be handy if either the VEAT or Villain Patron versions could see through "Hide"... Either way, the answer to the OP is pretty much "Hide by itself is fine for 99% of PvE, and stacking extra Stealth won't help you much with the other 1%".


 

Posted

You can sneek up on alomost anything if you approach from behind.

If a mob has +perception it will see non-stealthed players fronm further away than normal. You should have played enough to realise rikti drones don't.

I don't think any other mob works like the rikti drones though (arachnos and PPD drones are normal). It's because they where in the game before +/- perception powers.


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Posted

Interesting. I'd assumed the Rikti ones were identical to the others, although I'm aware of their "cloaking" effect on nearby friendly mobs. ParagonWiki even lists them as having some form of +Perception.

I usually will attack Rikti Drones last out of any given mob because the damage they inflict is reasonably small. By the time they'd start hitting my Stalker, hide is usually already broken.

Actually I haven't noticed any form of Drones attacking me from further away. Probably due to the fact that I mainly play on CoH, where PPD and Arachnos drones are fairly rare. On CoV I tend to play Stalkers or MMs (where I'm either permastealthed, or my henchmen are virtually always aggro magnets regardless of distance). Rularuu eyeballs are an exception, but they're not exactly drones.

I'd be surprised if Rikti Drones weren't tweaked after +perc/-perc powers were introduced to the game. The idea of ignoring stealth has perked my interest enough to test it out in the game later on though. Cheers!


 

Posted

I've been at 130ft PvE stealth level on my warshade (35ft superspeed, 35ft shadow cloak, and the 30ft stealth IO effect being stacked by zoning) and have still been shot at by Rikti drones from normal aggro range (45ft for minions, iirc). And I know from playing my stalker that Hide+Stealth doesn't help against them either. They're definitely outside of normal perception/stealth rules.

Also Crey & Nemesis Snipers have still fired on my warshade while at his usual 100ft cap (with stealth IO effect not stacked), but not from anywhere near as far as they usually do (it's about the same as normal aggro range would be for a minion/lieut spawn if you had no stealth). I don't recall having issues with snipers on my stalker though, but it has been ages since I played him and he's only L35.

But Praf is right - approaching from behind a mob's line of sight still works wonders - I make use of that on all my characters, even the ones with no stealth. It can be especially useful if you need to split a spawn (best done with a zero-damage power that causes minimal threat/aggro - Twilight Grasp from Dark Miasma is especially superb for this, but any debuff that does no damage should work).


 

Posted

Nemesis Snipers have a +Per of 149ft (Checked with VEAT Surveillance) so Hide+Stealth will get you within about 10 foot before they see you.
Rikti Drones, it dosn't matter how much stealth you have they will still see you.
Same with KoA


Defiant's GoEH/MILITIS METUS

 

Posted

Thank you all for the useful information.

Actually, I manage to AS Rikti Drones regularly when doing solo. The tricks are Speed and Position. First you hit Build Up. Then you can either TP or SS (or at least very fast sprint with swift) yourself right behind it (or at least anywhere that is not at the front of it). It would take a second or two for it to turn around and react to you. You would have just enough time to AS it dead.

The AS might be interrupted the first time when you press the button possibly because you are still moving (usually happens right after you stop SS but TP does not seems to have that problem). Just press that AS button again and again until the animation is started.

You could still AS a drone even if there is another nearby. Again, speed and position are the trick. In a big team when there are more that a few of them, well, you just have to scrape them till they break.


 

Posted

Don't forget some PvE stealth powers also adjust your threat lvl.


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Posted

[ QUOTE ]
The AS might be interrupted the first time when you press the button possibly because you are still moving (usually happens right after you stop SS but TP does not seems to have that problem). Just press that AS button again and again until the animation is started.

[/ QUOTE ]
On my EM/EA stalker I had trouble using AS promptly after a TP until I took the Hover power. The drop from Teleport's temporary hover (1sec after you TP) will interrupt AS, unless you wait for it to happen before using AS (by which time a drone would definitely see you). Having Hover let me use AS as soon as I appeared next to my target.

Admittedly I just respecced him out of TP & Hover (and dropped Stealth & TP Foe too, which I'd only taken for PvP) to put in an extra attack and get Aid Self, so that now he can actually scrap in PvE for levelling to L50. I intend to make good use of the stalker changes


 

Posted

No. I managed to TP next to a target and AS it before I drop back on the group. No hover is needed. The hovering effect after TP is just long enough (well, I say 'just').

I must say that I did miss sometimes because of lag (either server lag and graphic lag, which means that I could not get the timing right) or I mis-judged the distance between me and the target.

The best thing to do is to TP yourself from above.

Yes, now you can see TP then AS is not perfect. But it's doable - particularly against Drones that can see throught your hide.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
No. I managed to TP next to a target and AS it before I drop back on the group. No hover is needed. The hovering effect after TP is just long enough (well, I say 'just').

I must say that I did miss sometimes because of lag (either server lag and graphic lag, which means that I could not get the timing right) or I mis-judged the distance between me and the target.

[/ QUOTE ]
That explains why it never worked for me then - my connection usually sucks - sadly my ISP is rubbish and almost has a monopoly in my area as they own the infrastructure (they force their competitor to charge more for slower speeds).

According to City of Data the temporary hover on TP is 4secs (seems shorter than that for me), while the interruptible part of AS is 2secs (of a 3secs cast time), so yeah it should be easily possible - always interrupted for me though.

Admittedly I didn't try it much - I usually just waited for the temp hover to end, as it wasn't worth risking a miss and losing hide to save a few seconds. And against Rikti Drones I tended to use TP Foe (when solo) or just run in behind them, then TF/Bonesmasher them.