If Claws were like Dual Blades then I would agree with you, but it isn't, there is still a pause between attacks, a minor one I admit but it's still adding to the overall time. Without the pause it takes 2.67 seconds to do a swipe > strike combo. Evicerate is 2.17 seconds and does roughly 115% the damage.
The only real justification that I can see for using swipe > strike in preference to Evicerate is endurance conservation as the combo is cheaper by 1.77.
Slash > Strike is roughly even with Evicerate but it is slightly more expensive in endurance.
If I'm getting Stamina, I'd need one more power from Fitness. I figure I should go for Health over Swift, right?
You'll need 2 other fitness powers in order to get Stamina. Swift and Hurdle are a matter of personal preference, run faster or jump higher. You'll have to take one of these first before getting the chance to pick Health. Some players ignore Health altogether and take both Swift and Hurdle before getting Stamina, however with the +Recovery Inventions that can be put in Health the power has had a lease of life; also for an /SR scrapper any hitpoint regeneration is nice.
Just a note, if you are a flyer, take Swift over Hurdle and slot it with a +Fly speed. You will really notice a difference if you have Hover.
I really should do something about this signature.
As mentioned in the first post in this thread I have Combat Jumping, Super Jump, and Hurdle.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Eviscerate can hit 5 but don't bother on less than 2 who are in a fairly straight queue in front of you.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is something I have to disagree with, while it is theoretically efficient, it's also practically neglectful of what will be your most potent attack.
Evicerate is the largest chunk of damage a Claws Scrapper can hit a target with and it has a higher chance of causing a critical hit than any other Claws attack.
As for single target attack chains I find:
Focus > Slash > Follow Up > Strike > Focus
seems to work well. You get to keep most foes on their back this way and that reduces their ability to hit back.
[/ QUOTE ]
Focus > Slash > Follow Up > Strike > Focus
Thats not a lot different to however you order it especially when it comes to IOs. It also leaves out Eviscerate on a single target which as I am saying, I would too, because eviscerate will lower the damage per second done over that chain. I'd normally save eviscerate when there is more than one despite the small extra chance to critical unless that level of damage is all I need for a finish and anything better is on recharge. I can't see how your actually disagreeing with me at all.
Edit: I get it I said Swipe and Strike. I meant Strike and Slash. I didnt mean to write swipe as its something people drop. It was just a freudian slip.
Strike and Slash cast times are 1.17 + 1.33 = 2.5 secs
lets say thats 121.9 + 161 damage in 2.5 secs with 3 SOs in each attack and so that equals 282.9 damage in 2.5 secs = 113.16 dps
Eviscerate does 207.3 dam 3 SOs in 2.17 secs = 95.52 dps
People choose 113.16dps over 95.52dps.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
As far as the chain goes Evicerate gets added for tough opponents after the last Focus with the first 5 attacks essentially setting it up while keeping the opponent knocked down.
Evicerate is spike damage, when used against a single target it is essentially a cheaper, faster version of Disembowel. When facing opponents that can heal, buff themselves or debuff you the ability to deliver large amounts of damage in one hit is extremely useful.
Evicerate does 238.4 damage with 3 SOs not 207.3, that's 109.86 damage per second of animation.
And you're omitting the pause between attacks which is at least 0.1 of a second and raises your animation time for strike > slash to 2.6 or possibly even 2.7 seconds. That reduces the combo's damage per second of animation to 108.8 or less depending on how long the pause is.
People don't choose 108.8 over 109.86.
And then there's the significantly greater chance for a critical hit.
As I said before: If Claws worked like Dual Blades then your numbers would work, but it doesn't because of the pause between each attack. hence your numbers are out by a 0.1 of a second or more.
They trialled Claws (and the other weapon powersets) without the pause on Test in December and it was blisteringly fast. Needless to say they reverted to what we still have now.
How did you get 238,4 damage? I kept 3 even level 50 SOs in all attacks for comparison using Mids character builder quickly but the important thing is they are slotted the same in damage for comparison.
Red Tomax:
Level 50 Scrapper Effects (for Eviscerate)
* 106.35 Lethal Damage
* 106.35 Lethal Damage (15% chance) if (target = player) [Non-resistable] (an extra 10% doesn't sound that significant)
* 106.35 Lethal Damage (15% chance) if (target = critter)
106,35 * 1,9493 (3SO) = 207,3
Swipe, Strike, Slash and Focus all do the same Dam per End all slotted the same way. The others do less unless they hit more than one target or its follow up. Follow up increases the dam per end of all other attacks though by 37.5% for 10 seconds which isn't a bad return at all (if it ever hit 
)
Assuming cast times given in Mids are made up of animation and draw time any pause is meant to be draw time and is already accounted for in the cast times we look at. Other types of pauses can come from the rooted times. Claws was sped up by removing the draw times. Some powers had animation and rooted times mismatched but I can't recall mention of claws having it afk and so there is no confirmation.
A model with 3 plain lvl 50 Dam SOs (but hastened and IO rechg buffs)
Follow up = 97,6 in 1,63 secs
Strike = 121,9 in 1,17 secs
Slash = 161 in 1,33 secs
Focus = 200 in 1,53 secs
(numbers taken from power graphs
Total chain time = 5,66
Total damage without 37,5% * base dam and before Crits etc = 580,5
587,4/5,66 = 102,56 dps
Eviscerate on a single target 207,3/2,17 = 95,52 dps and so if added to that chain it would lower the average dps levels.
That chain is hard to get to reoccur directly after itself without IOs as there is not enough recharge with SOs, haste and quickness on follow up; without more than 1 rechg slot in follow up. Without extra recharge you get a gap that can be best filled with eviscerate as its just about 1.8 secs approx and had said:
[ QUOTE ]
Yes sometimes that highburst moment that you would get from it, that you wont have/be able to from other attacks is valuable.
[/ QUOTE ]
Once seeing where your going.
Although for survivability purposes often gets almost completely filled with air sup. Air Sup slotted the same way only gives 81,26 dps (less than eviscerate) but Air Sup is great for keeping foes on their butts and therefore provides greater damage mitigation and thats why I recommended that.
[ QUOTE ]
Whilst SO'd some people have air sup in there which is wicked and 100% advised by me. Even when you get IOs later it maybe staple for its knockdown.
[/ QUOTE ]
A typical SO chain of follow up, strike, slash, focus, pause, follow up sometimes has the pause removed with shockwave by some peoples preferences. Thats because of only being able to get so many powers in the build they left out Eviscerate. Hitting 10 with shockwave was considered better than 2 maybe 3 with eviscerate and shockwave had to do. Thats what Unthing did with his 1,3 sec pause in the attack chain. I like to have everything but swipe from my primary with confront often filling my gap 
.
With IO sets on a single target Eviscerate wouldn't be of economical use because follow up, strike, slash, focus can repeat without gaps.
Eviscerate is best when your key four single targets don't follow on from each other and when, if you have it air sup isn't essential for its knock up by keeping bosses on their butts.
(its 6:25 am thats almost bedtime for me XD )
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Given that your a jumper and what you said in the first post this; more of a power listing and slotting advice than a build proposal; might help as a guideline SO build to start with for PvE. Take powers in the order you see fit. Med pool is often chosen before passives and is more needed on my claws SR than it is for Kat/SR. Air Sup can keep flooring bosses and make them keep having to get up. There are plenty of other worthwhile powers and options just remember getting to 50 is more or less about being a rookie hero avatar to on becoming a experienced hero avatar.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php
Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Flight
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strike -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(3), Dmg(17), Dmg(40), EndRdx(46)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(7), DefBuff(13), EndRdx(48)
Level 2: Slash -- Acc(A), Acc(5), Dmg(5), Dmg(17), Dmg(43), EndRdx(45)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(7), DefBuff(13), EndRdx(50)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A)
Level 8: Follow Up -- Acc(A), Acc(9), Dmg(9), Dmg(15), Dmg(15), RechRdx(46)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(11), EndRdx(11)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump(A), EndRdx(50)
Level 16: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 18: Focus -- Acc(A), Acc(19), Dmg(19), Dmg(23), Dmg(23), EndRdx(46)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21)
Level 22: Stimulant -- IntRdx(A)
Level 24: Aid Self -- Heal(A), Heal(25), Heal(25), RechRdx(31), RechRdx(34), IntRdx(34)
Level 26: Eviscerate -- Acc(A), Acc(27), Dmg(27), Dmg(31), Dmg(37), EndRdx(39)
Level 28: Air Superiority -- Acc(A), Acc(29), Dmg(29), Dmg(31), Dmg(40), EndRdx(40)
Level 30: Lucky -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(34), DefBuff(36)
Level 32: Shockwave -- Acc(A), Acc(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(37), RechRdx(37)
Level 35: Evasion -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36), EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Elude -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(39), RechRdx(39)
Level 41: Spin -- Acc(A), Acc(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(43), EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Agile -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(45), DefBuff(45)
Level 47: Dodge -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(48), DefBuff(48)
Level 49: Quickness -- Run(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
How did you get 238,4 damage? I kept 3 even level 50 SOs in all attacks for comparison using Mids character builder quickly but the important thing is they are slotted the same in damage for comparison.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's right here. 238.4 see?
[ QUOTE ]
Assuming cast times given in Mids are made up of animation and draw time any pause is meant to be draw time and is already accounted for in the cast times we look at. Other types of pauses can come from the rooted times. Claws was sped up by removing the draw times.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's assuming alot. Claws doesn't have the rooted times and draw times removed, they tried that on test and decided it was overpowered (there were cases reported of scrappers getting through all their attacks and then having to wait for something to recharge). It still has the pauses etc.
Where did you get Air Sup from?!?
[ QUOTE ]
Given that your a jumper and what you said in the first post this; more of a power listing and slotting advice than a build proposal; might help as a guideline SO build to start with for PvE. Take powers in the order you see fit. Med pool is often chosen before passives and is more needed on my claws SR than it is for Kat/SR. Air Sup can keep flooring bosses and make them keep having to get up. There are plenty of other worthwhile powers and options just remember getting to 50 is more or less about being a rookie hero avatar to on becoming a experienced hero avatar.
[/ QUOTE ]Just curious, why Endurance Reduction in Sprint and Super Jump? I currently have a Jump enhancement in Sprint. I don't see the use of Endurance Reduction in either as I don't use them in combat, I only use them for travelling. Combat Jumping gives me all the combat mobility I need as the horizontal movement is faster than sprint anyway.
Or am I missing something here?
Personally I would have a Jump in SJ, but a lot of players have Sprint on in combat, in which case the endrec is the best bet for it.
I really should do something about this signature.
Many use sprint it for getting about in missions, the EndRed helps if it get's left on in combat.
Looking at the build I would have taken Hasten instead of Air Superiority, Focus is more than enough knockdown. I'm guessing that's a respec build as there are powers like Quickness and Spin that are taken way too late for my liking. Also, in my opinion, the slotting order on the defence toggles is backwards it should be EndRed first then add the DefBuffs so you can manage the Endurance as soon as you get them.
Here's my take on Claws/SR.
The late on slots in the defence toggles and Health are there with invention enhancements in mind. Some defence sets have good bonuses for 5 pieces and if you can get hold of the Numina's Set unique and a second piece from the set then you get +10% Recovery and +32% Regeneration which isn't anything to be sniffed at.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strike -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(7), Dmg(13), Dmg(31), EndRdx(40)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(5), DefBuff(15), DefBuff(17), EndRdx(45)
Level 2: Slash -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(7), Dmg(11), Dmg(29), EndRdx(37)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(5), DefBuff(15), DefBuff(17), EndRdx(46)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 8: Follow Up -- Acc(A), Acc(9), RechRdx(9), RechRdx(13), Dmg(29), Dmg(37)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(11), EndRdx(34)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Jump(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump(A)
Level 16: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(50)
Level 18: Focus -- Acc(A), Acc(19), Dmg(19), Dmg(23), Dmg(23), RechRdx(39)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21)
Level 22: Spin -- Acc(A), Acc(25), Dmg(25), Dmg(34), Dmg(34), EndRdx(40)
Level 24: Quickness -- Run(A)
Level 26: Eviscerate -- Acc(A), Acc(27), Dmg(27), Dmg(31), Dmg(31), EndRdx(40)
Level 28: Lucky -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(43), DefBuff(46)
Level 30: Stimulant -- IntRdx(A)
Level 32: Shockwave -- Acc(A), Acc(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(37), EndRdx(46)
Level 35: Evasion -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36), EndRdx(48)
Level 38: Elude -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(39), RechRdx(39)
Level 41: Aid Self -- Heal(A), Heal(42), Heal(42), IntRdx(42), RechRdx(43), RechRdx(43)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(45), RechRdx(45)
Level 47: Agile -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(48), DefBuff(48)
Level 49: Dodge -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(50), DefBuff(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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</pre><hr />
I don't use Sprint in missions, I pounce around with Combat Jumping, it's faster.
I only ever use Sprint these days for outdoor travel for the +jump combined with Super Jumping.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How did you get 238,4 damage? I kept 3 even level 50 SOs in all attacks for comparison using Mids character builder quickly but the important thing is they are slotted the same in damage for comparison.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's right here. 238.4 see?
[ QUOTE ]
Assuming cast times given in Mids are made up of animation and draw time any pause is meant to be draw time and is already accounted for in the cast times we look at. Other types of pauses can come from the rooted times. Claws was sped up by removing the draw times.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's assuming alot. Claws doesn't have the rooted times and draw times removed, they tried that on test and decided it was overpowered (there were cases reported of scrappers getting through all their attacks and then having to wait for something to recharge). It still has the pauses etc.
Where did you get Air Sup from?!?
[/ QUOTE ]
Your Planner is reading different to mine, and I doubt its a difference of +3. Can you import my above data chunk into yours and see if you get the same damage figure. Likewise though I imported your data chunk and it reads 207,3 to me.
In the OP survivability was a problem and air sup is taken by many particularly for when fighting anyone from boss to AV. Thats why I brought that up and not Eviscerate. I reply in accord with the OP not anyone in general.
[ QUOTE ]
Large packs of weaker mobs are slightly better... I tend to dodge most of the bullets and the like, but then something bops me over the head with a sledgehammer for 50-60 damage and I lose roughly one fourth to one third of my health. I feel horribly squishy.
[/ QUOTE ]
106.35 Lethal Damage as said in CoD
3 enhancements should offer slightly less than double that figure without a crit through ED scaling. Your base damage is higher than what is said in CoD by about 15% is that in one way accounting for the critical?
Edit: Just checked, I am set to minimum and you are set to average (damage * chance).
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't use Sprint in missions, I pounce around with Combat Jumping, it's faster.
I only ever use Sprint these days for outdoor travel for the +jump combined with Super Jumping.
[/ QUOTE ]
Everything is a suggestion to get you started as said "more of a power listing and slotting advice than a build proposal". I put the end in because I felt I had a slot spare (in fact in my mind 4 spare) and had to put it somewhere incase you fight with it on. Air Sup puts heavy hitters on their backs making them hit less putting streak breakers back making you seemingly less squishie. Eviscerate is a better damage spike. Regen from health is good but aid self often does it anyway. Hurdle chosen because you had already chosen it, swift for better A - B control at speed which I swear by especially if you were without cj. Haste is good for a faster elude but I never needed haste in pve. In posting the build I did say there are other useful and good powers to get. Spin was deliberately left late based on a general consensus on these forums over a year ago about it being better taken when you have aoe def. My current build differs to that suggestion based on its intentions.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Random thought here, would it be a bad idea to get Kick, Tough and Weave from the Fighting pool? That'd sure be a lot of toggles to keep on but I'm still missing 1.5 levels from Stamina so I can't tell how much better it'd make endirance management...
[Edit] I'm aware that you can only have 4 or less pool power trees so this would replace Medicine or Flight (Air Superiority sounds sort of cool, still thinking about it).
Tough is just smash and lethal where as Aid self is versus any damage type. Passives offer resists. Weave is great going for a non elude build. I think Aid self does more for overall survivability. Its popular for that. I did have complete fight pool on my SR plus everything else at one time and I did have end issues. With IOs end issues can be more easily removed.
Air Sup and Flight is what I currently do. A few Brutes and Tanks swear by Air Sup for the knock up. The -fly when you don't have one ain't a bad thing and you can get it so early.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
The thing with eviscerate is the amount of damage you do in its cast time is less than what you can do in that time with both swipe and strike. So some people don't like it on a single target. The best ST attack chain they could get is without it. The damage per endurance is lower than the ST attacks but I kept using it as a filler. I used to also use it with combat kick on anything. It looked great anyway and it made my character look cool to me. Yes sometimes that highburst moment that you would get from it, that you wont have/be able to from other attacks is valuable.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.