To Peacebringer or not to Peacebringer?
By
Burning_Seraph_EU,
Posted on: 2007-10-11 20:43 in Kheldians
I must admit so far my time with my Kheldian has been a mixed bag, just hit 21 and on several occasions I have allmost given up. But not matter how tough some missions can be, I just love the play style, the frantic shifting of forms is fantastic.
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On a similar note I was teaming with a 50ish WS the other day and after talking with him a while I realised he had slogged to 50 without ANY BINDS! He was a nice guy and i'm not ripping on him personally but he must have some perseverance to do that. I mean I cant believe it was even possible. Made me wonder if that was the reason so many ppl dump khelds so quickly. When I play my WS I can be flipping forms constantly depending on the situation.
So in recap-
Get to 50
Read Plasma's excellent kheld guide (see above)
Get your binds sorted asap, before you get forms
get to 21 and decide if YOU like khelds
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There are many ways to have fun with khelds...
- using binds maybe helpfull with WS, no "must have"...and imo not needed as PB
- its not on "this Form is better than the other.." , its the abillity to change forms on one char even if somebody decide to build his kheld with only one or two forms...
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On a similar note I was teaming with a 50ish WS the other day and after talking with him a while I realised he had slogged to 50 without ANY BINDS! He was a nice guy and i'm not ripping on him personally but he must have some perseverance to do that. I mean I cant believe it was even possible. Made me wonder if that was the reason so many ppl dump khelds so quickly. When I play my WS I can be flipping forms constantly depending on the situation.
So in recap-
Get to 50
Read Plasma's excellent kheld guide (see above)
Get your binds sorted asap, before you get forms
get to 21 and decide if YOU like khelds
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There are many ways to have fun with khelds...
- using binds maybe helpfull with WS, no "must have"...and imo not needed as PB
- its not on "this Form is better than the other.." , its the abillity to change forms on one char even if somebody decide to build his kheld with only one or two forms...
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Ok i dont think this thread was intended as advanced kheld guide. I was only trying to give decent advice on getting into them. If you have one form, which 99% of new kheld players will, you need binds. You will end up with tons of powers very quickly and easily fill a few power bars. Ok you dont NEED them but I cant see how this will endear khelds to anyone. You seriously think it is feasible to enjoy playing a tri-form PB without binds? How do you do it? Bashing away on the +/- keys in the heat of battle sounds pretty intense to me. And guaranteed to leave you in the wrong tray for your current form.
Seriously someone tell me how they play a kheld with forms without binds? Please?
Out of interest mike what lvl is your PB?
Mine is Nebuloid on Union. I would love to team with you and see your bindless playstyle against mine. If you have forms that is.
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Ok i dont think this thread was intended as advanced kheld guide. I was only trying to give decent advice on getting into them. If you have one form, which 99% of new kheld players will, you need binds. You will end up with tons of powers very quickly and easily fill a few power bars. Ok you dont NEED them but I cant see how this will endear khelds to anyone. You seriously think it is feasible to enjoy playing a tri-form PB without binds? How do you do it? Bashing away on the +/- keys in the heat of battle sounds pretty intense to me. And guaranteed to leave you in the wrong tray for your current form.
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I usually use the Mouse (5-button) and a old Joypad (Gravis Gamepad Pro) when I'm playing CoH. Keyboard is relegated to chatting, though for some characters the numpad is used for team targetting/buffing/healing. The only character I've "needed" extra keybinds on so far has been my Bot/Traps Mastermind, and even then that's only really for pet control: Follow/Defensive All (Full Bodyguard), Follow/Passive All (Come here NOW DAMMIT!), Aggressive All (Lazy mode), Follow/Defensive Tier1, Tier2 + Attack/Aggressive Tier3 (Standard "Attack someone but don't give up my Bodyguard defenses" PvP bind).
The only exceptions to this rule is a bind for targetting multiple mezzer enemies (quantum/void/cyst/sapper/cairn in ascending order of threat), and whatever bind setup it takes to activate my travel power with one button (or 'one button held down plus a mouseclick' in the case of teleporting characters).
My Human/Dwarf PB has all his powers arranged onto the first 3 power trays which are all permanently visible, and I find it very easy to use them all. The first two (lower) trays are for Human Form with standard attacks on the lowest bar (#1) and toggles/Seekers/Nuke on the upper bar (#2), the third tray is for Dwarfie powers.
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Seriously someone tell me how they play a kheld with forms without binds? Please?
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Same as all the rest of my toons, the only difference on the Kheld to any other toon is that it has one extra "$$Powexec_name Energy Flight" statement in my Teleport bind text files to allow one Joypad shoulder button to turn on both Dwarf Form Teleport or Human Form Flight. And since I usually use "Super Jump" for getting around in Human form (I took it for Acrobatics), this is kind of a moot point... 
My style of gameplay without using the keyboard? Pretty relaxed actually. I've found that I can react to things very quickly and jump around with a lot more precision than a typical Keyboard user. My "flinch" reflex makes my character jump and move forward/backward/sideways since my Left hand's thumb and forefinger never leave the Joypad's Directional-Pad and left shoulder button.
Usually a mission sees me seriously abusing the joypad buttons to move forward, strafe left-and-right and activate all my attacks, "looking" left and right and targetting with the mouse (and occasionally clicking a power bar icon to Switch form, set off a Nuke or use Photon Seekers) and maybe tapping the keyboard's 7/8/9/10 keys a few times to heal or self-buff if the need arises.
To go into detail:
My Mouse uses standard Left/Right for attack/mouselook, the middle button brings up my map, the right side button is used for my "target the quantum/void/cyst/sapper/cairn" bind, and the left side button is usually used to activate "follow the target", though it changes to "Taunt" on my Tank and DA Scrapper and "Patron AoE Webnade the target" on my MMs.
My Joypad's left Shoulder buttons "Jump" and Activate my travel power. The Standard Start/Select/A/B/C/D buttons activate the first six powers on my lowest tray (same as Keyboard's keys 1-6), which are usually Human form attacks + Build up. The 7-10 power slots on that lowest tray are typically self-buffs like Heals/Hasten and are turned on periodically via the keyboard. If I know I'm going to Tank for any great length of time, I switch the bottom and top trays around manually so I can use the joypad's buttons for the Dwarf attacks, Taunt and Heal. All the power icons on my middle and top tray are activated by mouseclicks.
The two Right-Hand Shoulder buttons on my Joypad cycle between enemy targets, but don't get used very often since my right hand is usually on the Mouse, which has it's own targetting bind on a side-button.
I've used this method for nearly two years now, it works great and I've still got a spare joypad somewhere... 
Wow interesting. I have an XBOX controller lying around that I butchered to work on my pc. I may well dig it out and try it. Probably not with a kheld tho 
I rarely use my mouse to click any powers that i need critically. Dont like to rely on my mouse accuracy.
All powers i activate 1-0 which i try to keep as my attack chains and buffs. Second bar I activate with 1-0 with the ALT key for toggles and lesser used attacks (nukes/light form).
Bind for a form will change form and change to another uncluttered power bar for that form and again I use 1-0 for whatever attacks the form has.
Second bar stays with my human form clickies/toggles so i can see when I need to flip to human for buffs/nukes/light form/hasten/mires/fluffies/stygian circle.
When you say you change the power bars around manually, you do that in the middle of fights? Dont you think one bound keypress would expedite that process and improve your ability to rapidly meet different combat conditions?
But I have to admit you have really tempted me to dig out that controller
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When you say you change the power bars around manually, you do that in the middle of fights?
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Well, I do it in the middle of a mission certainly. Occasionally I might switch trays mid-fight if I see the team's tanker faceplant and I know I'll need to "fill in tank" for a good while.
Tray layout is here (the 5th insps column is actually used in missions! )
#3: Dwarf Smite/Strike/Flare/Taunt/Heal, Geas Accolade, Light Form, Rez, Rest, Dwarf Toggle.
#2: Super Speed, Human Flare, Photon Seekers, Nuke, SJ, CJ, Acrobatics, Quantum Flight, PB Hover, PB Fly.
#1: Eyebeam, Blast, Sands of Mu, R. Strike, I. Strike, Build Up, Heal, Dull Pain, Conserve Energy, Hasten.
Usually i'd switch trays before a big fight, it's more a convienience thing than necessary though. I tend to tank in Dwarf form for short durations mid-fight just by clicking the powers I need on the upper tray.
I rarely use Dwarf Form long-term in missions unless the team's without a proper tanker, and in that case I'd be in my "tank" mindset, focussing on aggro control all the time - my top and bottom trays would remain swapped (Human attacks on uppermost tray and dwarf powers on lowermost tray) for the entire play session.
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Dont you think one bound keypress would expedite that process and improve your ability to rapidly meet different combat conditions?
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Nope. Takes all of two clicks with the mouse (< 1 second) to switch my lower tray from #1 to #3. Same again with the upper tray to switch it from #3 to #1 (but it's only really the lower tray switching that's important!).
As mentioned before, I only really switch the trays for convenience's sake... since if I know I'm going to remain in Dwarf form for a while it's easier just to tap Joypad buttons than click the mouse all the time. For short durations of Dwarfie fighting (eg. Human form has just Nuked, pop a Blue + switch to Dwarfie... or Team aggroes a second mob and we need a backup tanker) I'm perfectly comfortable clicking on a power tray button icon to activate Dwarf Form and then click on whatever powers I want to activate.
After level 38 Dwarfie gets used less and less since Light form is a better survivability tool. Dwarf's only real use for me at higher levels is post-nuke when Light Form isn't up, or for team aggro control + AV tanking...
I've been meaning to go back and IO up my PB, have had a new build planned since i9 hit and kept putting it off. All this discussion is making me antsy, might have to go and dust the cobwebs off him soonish... 
For anyone without a side buttoned mouse, I'd press either a bind or macro to switch to any tray and change forms at the same time.
"Powexec_toggle_off Bright Nova$$Powexec_toggle_off White Dwarf$$goto_tray <insert number here>"
This changes to human moves by bottom tray to my human form attacks. I tend to keep all my survivability buttons where I can see them. I like to know whats recharged and whats not if having to change forms to get a heal etc.
/bind <key>,
/macro <name>,
Change to Nova and change tray to Nova Attacks.
"$$Powexec_toggle_on Bright Nova$$Goto_tray <insert number here>"
For Dwarf change and change to Dwarf Attacks.
"$$Powexec_toggle_on White Dwarf$$Goto_tray <insert number here>"
Only the bottom tray moves so you can even keyboard in bed with one hand if necessary.
*yawns*
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Yup im with ya there.
And yeh to how dwarf becomes pretty unused in higher levels. Tbh my current PB build is tri but the dwarf only has the dam res slotted. Just a little more than a panic button to me. But for the sake of one power+2 enh slots i still think it is worth having. More than that phase shift power. Really dont see the point of that power after light form.
Dwarf form is neither a soloing toon or a panic button for me, its one for the team. Teams can vary in make up and have moments in which a Dwarf form can offer them saviour and/or better flexibility. Dwarf form is as needed in a typical team usually as much as a WS or PB, they are not. The main reason to play them is for fun and I, like Maelwys see that as 35+ game but people's mileages will vary, but having past that lvl35 in 2005 I still haven't found them amazing but everyones mileage will vary and one can't promise another that something is worth loving. As much as antagonise sucks its better and much more worth slotting than glowing touch.
Why I felt the need to stipulate that any type of Tank can be better than Dwarves. A typical opinion from Plasmas guide:
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What's a better tank, a dwarf form, or a tank?
That depends on the tank, and the dwarf. Tanks get aoe punchvoke, whereas Dwarfs only get punchvoke on the target. Dwarves get a taunt, but it is not autohit. Dwarves get strong defense, but it can't compare to the ridiculous defense some tanks can get with Tier 9s (Unstoppable, Granite) - not even close. Also, with buffs, tanks can hit a 90% resist cap, whereas the dwarf form caps at 85%, meaning even under ideal circumstances, you take 50% more damage. Also, real tanks don't take massive damage from quantums and voids. So I'd say, off the cuff, that Dwarf form is a good but not a great tank. I'd say both dwarfs are superior to Fiery Aura Tanks, simply because fiery aura sucks. Otherwise, the other tanks are as good or better, and for stone and invuln, distinctly better at higher levels; although not so much better that a dwarf is a "bad" tank.
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To be fair this was back in 20/1/07 before IOs when it was less obvious how survivable and good Firetanks can be, but nevertheless still incorrect at that time. If it was said before the healing flames change, I would still of said its incorrect and actually did. Nowadays its simply even more obvious to some people since the healing flames buff and the new IO slotting.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
My PB is actually 37, human/dwarf (on Zukunft ^^)
I use a 7-button mouse and a newer keybord with 18 macro-buttons, sometimes in a similar way like Maelwys does.
Logitech G15 by any chance? It actually has 3x 18 macro buttons
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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Logitech G15 by any chance? It actually has 3x 18 macro buttons
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Correct, ...more than enough macros to me ^^
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Roll one and find out?
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*shivers*
Out right cold!
Dude, when i first started playing coh the first kheld i saw was the PB. I said; 'the minute i hit 50 i'm getting one of those!'
They're great fun, especially if you've just gone through tanking for 50 levels, the tri form option is brilliant. They really are eye candy when it comes to rolling.
In politer terms i'd always reccomend giving them a go, i've rolled my PB to the late 30's and still having a ball!
I have a lvl 28 human only PB, and I have to say - he rocks.
Slotted right, he's a blapping damage dealer, and with stamina AND conserve energy, mixed with a little hasten and some recharge SO's, I'm hardly, if ever, out of endurance.
We have some powers available that normal blappers would die to get their hands on. A blapper with dull pain?! And my vet reward powers thrown in makes the usual 1,2,3 combo turn into jumping into a +3 mob, hit powers 1 through 7 and count the 'arrested' bodies.
I just can't wait til I've got my photon seekers, dawn strike and can be in light form for upto 40% of the time I'm playing. I've never been more satisfied with an AT.
And while the bi/tri-form PB's are out there using light form and quantum flight as a panic button only (wih weak one-slotted human attacks) - I'll have all human powers slotted up and ready to go with the resistance close to a tank. *grins*
ps. this is my first kheld, and I've stuck to it, and I'm loving it
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Yeh its not really helpfull to put khelds in terms of blapper etc. I have seen khelds with full slotted dwarf forms who can tank REALLY well.
But then again its hard to describe them to the unitiated :/
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Dwarfs do not have taunt aura nor gauntlet. their taunt has toHit check in PVE. Theres more to tanking than just taking damage.
PS. I have a PB almost at lvl 30 and it sucks .
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To add:
My Dwarves both have antagonise 6 slotted and they both suck as Tanks, beneath my expectations despite doing well "enough". In my not so humble but totally honest opinion on this, they are overall physically incapable of being "as good" as "any" type of properly built and played Tanker that there is at Tanking "anything". The fact that someone says that one Dwarf is, is a bad sign for the Tankers that they have seen. However circumstances and to be expected, experiences vary. But bare in mind not every team needs a tanker type in the first place and if they do, then its to varying degrees. So given time, support and opportunity there will be occasions Dwarves can tank really well or well enough.
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Whatever. I have a 50 PB AND a 50 tanker ty. I dont see the point in pedantic listing of numbers etc. I dont think anyone expects a kheld to be up there with a decent built and played tanker. Duh. If you want a tanker roll one. Thats exactly what I did. I should mention that PB's who are just in dwarf all the time even when there is a tanker on their team really annoy me.
This thread reminds me of one of the things I loved about getting my PB to 50. The endless tirade of "khelds suczorrrrrr.....>zzzzzzzzz" or the variation "how can you play a kheld?? omg its so harddddd....zzzzzz"
On a similar note I was teaming with a 50ish WS the other day and after talking with him a while I realised he had slogged to 50 without ANY BINDS! He was a nice guy and i'm not ripping on him personally but he must have some perseverance to do that. I mean I cant believe it was even possible. Made me wonder if that was the reason so many ppl dump khelds so quickly. When I play my WS I can be flipping forms constantly depending on the situation.
So in recap-
Get to 50
Read Plasma's excellent kheld guide (see above)
Get your binds sorted asap, before you get forms
get to 21 and decide if YOU like khelds
By that point i think you should have an idea if you like the AT or not.