We've won against superior numbers before.
They are kinda tough, though.
i participated in a Ootcs base raid, the first 10 min belonged to the heroes and we were camping the spawn point, but the second 10 min of the raid the villians managed to gain the upper hand and started spawning the hero spawn point.
so from my exp its more than fair, can get very frustrating, but with proper co-ordination u can win no matter wot side ur on, given the teams are basically even, obv 20 heroes against 10 villians ur gonna have some issues lol
IT goes both ways really, it can be very hard to get that initial foothold in the base, but once you start getting a few people in, it turns around on the defenders. I'm glad it's hard to destroy the anchors now...I think it was a bit too easy before.
I agree, and due to the risks that defenders will be having in IoP raids (should we ever see them) the balance of power should be on defenders side in all honesty. The attackers risk nothing apart dying (and maybe debt from bugged turrets or something).
I still havent participated into mroe than one raid and it crashed though.. And that was when villains were 40..
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I agree, and due to the risks that defenders will be having in IoP raids (should we ever see them) the balance of power should be on defenders side in all honesty. The attackers risk nothing apart dying (and maybe debt from bugged turrets or something).
I still havent participated into mroe than one raid and it crashed though.. And that was when villains were 40..
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Speaking of, we're tweaking a few things in our base right now, fancy another raid some time?
BUT, only as long as you don't pull a stunt like last time, half your guys got lost too! [img]/uk/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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i participated in a Ootcs base raid, the first 10 min belonged to the heroes and we were camping the spawn point, but the second 10 min of the raid the villians managed to gain the upper hand and started spawning the hero spawn point.
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Yeah, but did you manage to take down 5 anchors in the time allowed?
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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We've won against superior numbers before.
They are kinda tough, though.
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Are you saying you've successfully attacked against superior numbers and won since I7? The only way I can see this being possible is if the other base has minimal/no defences or is VERY badly designed?
As for anchors and items being a lot tougher now, that's exactly what people were asking for before I7 as it was just too easy for the attackers to win.
The first point you seem to be overlooking is that anchor destruction was never really meant to be the preferred method of winning, that's why we were given those raid pylons.
There does still need to be some tweaking and I think raids are actually getting less and less fun as groups earn more prestige. There seems to be a prestige barrier that once you break, just takes the fun out of raids completely.
For around 8 million prestige, you can get a base with a chokepoint and just put your control, medical and power rooms on one side of it then load them all up with turrets and damage boosters. Then you can just whack other turrets with damage boosters in places to cover the remaining spawn spots.
The end result is you leave a solid defensive team in the area behind the spawn spot to mop up any who try to get through the turret fire(MM's are good here as tactics, etc do buff the turrets) while the rest of you just roam the spawn spots and wipe attackers out as they zone in. A lot of the time, attackers will have actually taken heavy turret damage before the load screen even clears.
The end result is that unless the defenders are heavily outnumbered, extremely rubbish and have a poorly designed base, victory should never be possible for the attackers once the groups involved have broken the 5-8 million prestige mark.
In the raids I've done so far since I7, I've actually found that turrets are still reasonably flimsy compared to other base items so being prepared to spend 1/2 hour dying lots while you whittle them down one by one is a workable tactic(until bases get too many turrets for this to be an option).
Trying to destroy med rings, generators and anchors is completely pointless now.
Then we get to the method we should be using and why it's flawed... Raid Pylons.
There are two main problems with this, animation time being the first. It's probably just a little too long. Bases are small and cramped so the chances of anyone actually getting one of these deployed before getting spotted and interrupted is pretty slim. If this was the only problem, I'd say it was possible to win like this but we then have the second flaw which is just ridiculous... They can be destroyed.
You've just wasted 6 or 7 pylons(all of which use salvage) and been interrupted on every one. You finally find a spot that's safe from turret fire and manage to get one down before a defender spots you. Success! Then the big glowing pylon sticks out like a sore thumb and the defenders destroy it in seconds.
Given how hard these things are to deploy in the first case, I really do think that once they are deployed, they should have the same sort of sturdiness boost that other base items got in I7 or even be invulnerable. Getting one or two down is a big enough achievement so it's hardly going to make this method an 'easy win' like destroying generators was befor I7.
All in all, the I7 changes were a VERY good thing and I know most of the raiding VG's on Union agree as we were full of praise when they were made, making raids a lot more enjoyable. However, there are still a few things that need tweaking as the balance is still not there.
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i participated in a Ootcs base raid, the first 10 min belonged to the heroes and we were camping the spawn point, but the second 10 min of the raid the villians managed to gain the upper hand and started spawning the hero spawn point.
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Yeah, but did you manage to take down 5 anchors in the time allowed?
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You can also win with pylons, though. Im not sure if wiping out everyone counts as a victory for attackers as well like it does for defenders..
Clearing the base of defenders for a set period of time does result in a win for the attackers.
However, this is almost impossible to do now as you'd need to destroy their med rings and that's really not an option since I7
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Speaking of, we're tweaking a few things in our base right now, fancy another raid some time?
BUT, only as long as you don't pull a stunt like last time, half your guys got lost too! [img]/uk/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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Well im ready, but I have to ask the others.. Personally I want to be attacking now. Im just a bit jaded about the chances of getting Goonies raiding take off. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
Just come up with a date Ill try to make something happen.
ps. I knew that you had the advantage in open combat so I wanted to restrict movement.. plus I suspect you'd have eventually had trouble even finding the anchors (you found the only one that was in plain sight).
Anchors (as are most other base objects apart from turrets) are well hard. However that is not a bad thing as others have pointed out, when it comes to the real thing you dont want your base completly trashed. It was far to easy before. I think anchors could perhaps do with a slight nerf so they they aint nigh on impossible to destroy allowing for the advantage to still be with the defenders.
As it is currently, the only real way to win is with pylons. My experiences (villains vs villains) are kind of the same as Kinslayers in that losing the raid due to anchors being destroyed means something really is wrong (unless uneven numbers).
It is possible for an attacking side to get a strong hold but is very hard to do. I expect that you would have died many times before you able to do this. When the Violators raided E.V.I.L. they were only able to get a strong hold in the last few minutes of the raid. Even with a strong hold they were unable to really do anything.
Spawn camping can be overcome but you need to have tactics and be organised. If when you spawned you were all split up it would make it awkward to make coordinated attacks as you are all split up.
Personally I much prefer base defending as can have alot more fun/enjoying the carnage. For some reason it matters more when its your stuff being trashed and I think I get a bigger kick out of it then say the arena.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
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i participated in a Ootcs base raid, the first 10 min belonged to the heroes and we were camping the spawn point, but the second 10 min of the raid the villians managed to gain the upper hand and started spawning the hero spawn point.
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Yeah, but did you manage to take down 5 anchors in the time allowed?
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well i was defending lol so i didnt want to smash anything, but the villians did destroy quite a few items, maybe a couple of anchors
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Clearing the base of defenders for a set period of time does result in a win for the attackers.
However, this is almost impossible to do now as you'd need to destroy their med rings and that's really not an option since I7
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it happened in the Ootcs raid, the villians did take them out, meaning the heroes had to start going to hospital, hence them gaining the upper hand in the raid
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Clearing the base of defenders for a set period of time does result in a win for the attackers.
However, this is almost impossible to do now as you'd need to destroy their med rings and that's really not an option since I7
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it happened in the Ootcs raid, the villians did take them out, meaning the heroes had to start going to hospital, hence them gaining the upper hand in the raid
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Sounds like a right royal **** up. I was able to stop 5 villains vs 2 of us from destroying our rings. It takes forever to actually destroy something so unless they were left to there own devices then I cant see where you went wrong.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
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Speaking of, we're tweaking a few things in our base right now, fancy another raid some time?
BUT, only as long as you don't pull a stunt like last time, half your guys got lost too! [img]/uk/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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Well im ready, but I have to ask the others.. Personally I want to be attacking now. Im just a bit jaded about the chances of getting Goonies raiding take off. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
Just come up with a date Ill try to make something happen.
ps. I knew that you had the advantage in open combat so I wanted to restrict movement.. plus I suspect you'd have eventually had trouble even finding the anchors (you found the only one that was in plain sight).
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Awesome! To be honest, we spent most of the time looking for eachother, not DA's. Xanthus kept getting so lost, and Imag just wanted to hit stuff he found.
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Clearing the base of defenders for a set period of time does result in a win for the attackers.
However, this is almost impossible to do now as you'd need to destroy their med rings and that's really not an option since I7
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it happened in the Ootcs raid, the villians did take them out, meaning the heroes had to start going to hospital, hence them gaining the upper hand in the raid
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Sounds like a right royal **** up. I was able to stop 5 villains vs 2 of us from destroying our rings. It takes forever to actually destroy something so unless they were left to there own devices then I cant see where you went wrong.
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well there were superior villian numbers, and it was going ok, then a couple of heroes went down, then the remaining ones were just over whelmed, dnt matter how good u are, the odds are against u when its 10 on 1
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well there were superior villian numbers, and it was going ok, then a couple of heroes went down, then the remaining ones were just over whelmed, dnt matter how good u are, the odds are against u when its 10 on 1
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Even so, these things take a pounding and that takes time. When you say superior numbers, what were the actual numbers involved?
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
I was on the same OotCS base raid - defending with the heroes. I don't think the medi pad was destroyed, it was more a case of the villains gaining control of it. Unfortunately the villain spawn point appeared right next to the medi pad, so when the villains did gain a foothold it was one of the first things the heroes lost use of.
With no medi pad the hospital came into use, and then we discovered a minor flaw. We hadn't started in the same zone when we entered the base originally. That made co-ordinating entry into the base (as the villains were now set up near the entry portal) a bit trickier.
The end result was that the heroes won as the villains didn't have their pylons set up in time. It helped that the heroes managed to destroy a couple once they were in place.
The defiant one of the family.
[B]Order of the Cruciform/Crucified Swords[/B] - [B]Defiant[/B]
50's - Tridento (claws/invul scrapper), Robo Medic MkIV (empath/rad defender), Entrino (dark/dark defender) & Captain Wombat (thugs/traps mastermind)
[I]@EU-Cambo[/I]
That's why I always try to get my guys to meet up in Port Oakes and enter the base from there for base raids. Not sure about on heroes but PO has the easiest base access from hospital as the portal is right outside [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
My SG, which is spread over several SGs, including one villain SG has been doing base raids for the past few weeks to see how this thing works. My conclusions seem to be as follows.
Anchors are WAAAY to tough. 8000hps and about 80% resistance mean they really take some beating, even when there's a half dozen of you pounding at it, which of course you can't do for long before the defenders turn up.
Spawning at the same point seems to quickly result in a gank-fest, with the spawn point wuickly becomming covered with caltrops, tripmines, ice patches, whatever to the point where the invaders get splattered over the funiture within seconds.
Honestly, from my point of view it looks like there's no way for the invaders to win if the numbers are vaguely equal. Anyone else finding this? Or are we just doing something wrong?
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)