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Does a fire/fire tank need taunt?? remember they have blazing aura, combustion, burn and fire swoard circle which are all PBAoE
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No, a tank, no tank NEEDS taunt, but for however good a tank you are without it, you'll be even better with it.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
its just i need to drop 1 move and i think taunt is it but i would like ur views :P
(i will poat my build soon when i work the slots out :P)
Fire Sword Circle and Blazing Aura will taunt the same enemies. Combustion has a larger area and will get some outside your immediate vicinity. So aggro of the enemies around your tanker are well and truly taunted ( and heavily scorched ).
Taunt is not needed to keep aggro of a spawn in melee with you ( unless you are very low level ), it is needed to get those OUTSIDE your immediate melee zone, these are generally the ones who are most danger to your teammates.
Because /fire does not need a target to fire off either combustion or FSC you can leisurely target enemies outside the main melee with taunt and get them to attack you. This is one of Firey melee's huge aggro holding advantages over the other sets ( the other being the AoE heaviness ).
Also, one thing to note, Burn, whilst it is a PbAoE does not really help with aggro control, it makes it harder but does nice damage.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
never had taunt on my fire/fire tank use my powers and use my fire mastery to get the aggro of enemys out of melee range
In game versus enemies with tohit debuffs or high defence your blazing aura can miss and keep missing, you wont stand a a real good chance in aggroing them and keeping them on you unless you put accuracies in it. Ive done my tests and you can do yours by all means, whether its spectral daemons, tsoo sorcerors using hurricane or storm shamans using hurricane from the banished pantheons your ability to miss it pretty damn good. Blazing aura isnt autohit so accuracies like in anyother attack are worthwhile to keep aggro. One of my fire/ice tanker friends versus the levels he faces has gone and had to put 3 accuracies in blazing aura to keep aggro during the lvl 30-35 range, 2 wasnt enough so i'm told and i did see his aura missing, no damage = no taunt. I myself have 3 accuracies of the bat and since seeing that my aura was inaccurate versus tsoo whilst on TO's I will keep accuracies in it. i might drop down to 2 SO's from 3 for the "usual" and just buy the accs when i know i might need them.
If your in a situation where you dont get to taunt all through missing with blazing aura and the defender gets mullered good luck
you can use attacks aoes will gauntlet what they can hit maximum and single target attacks will hit upto 5 with gauntlet if you hit someone, but its a small aoe and like i say upto 5, not necessarily 5. You could not necessarily hit anything and cause no gauntlet whatsoever and if you do hit something then the gauntlet duration is scaled to the endurance cost of the power not the damage so once taunt duration is over whoever does the most damage wins and the gauntlet duration is not much, it takes a constant string of attacking to keep foes preoccupied on you and for all of them attacks to hit. I think its poo personally and i would think tanks have been robbed of a truly decent inherent power when my heaviest attacks are recharging and i use my lighter ones to miss and have aggro stolen. i exemped to level 6 with my invuln and had serious (what i call serious) problems keeping aggro from the nova i was with.
I like taunt as it doesnt miss pve, when your out of endurance you can still gain aggro and when your tohit is floored you can still gain aggro. Face to face with something that can one hit you in melee or hit you lightly in range its nice to have and guarantees it will hit and taunt.
Stonetanks are the least maneuvreable and taunt is beneficial by saving on the endurance of tping around to recover fast foes into your mudpots that could otherwise wipe your team and taunt on a firetank is good to have something which is autohit when you cant hit a thing. The other two types of tankers are more greyer areas needing taunt less and your ability to tank exceedingly well will always be partially down to the team your with.
Believe me a fire/fire with no taunt is very tempting considering on what else is on offer in regards to being more fun but when i invite an empath to the team i wouldnt want to find out he only has heal aura and lots of weak blasts or be as useful as a flipper in the sahara desert and i do see some tanks in there 20's being just as useful as that. Telling me they cant start tanking till 26 or something with obvious build flaws as to why they cant.
Taunt as well as everything else gives a tanker more ability to tank under more varied conditions.
Please dont say this post is going to open up another can of worms please!! I should start saying "do what you like, if people like what you do and if you like what you do then good. If i was to ever team with you i'll be one way or the other from watching what happens.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I myself think SHANNON is 100% spot on. I have an Ice tank with Chilling Embrace which never ever misses like Blazing Aura does and he has 2 taunts. (Not that the 2nd is always necessary)
Although I would argue that not every tank may want it as your not looking to actually tank, in which case, you should have made a Scrapper...
I have to say i agree... i didn't take taunt untill the late 40's with my fire tank BA and combustion kept all the agro on me no problems, the only reason i took taunt then is because i could herd a bigger group with out traveling as far(lazy really). that said i do think taunt is a very good power to have as you can call agro off your team if you lose it in the first place. i have my BA slotted 2x end red, 2x acc, 1x taunt and 1x dam. it holds agro no probs
I took taunt on my fire tank soon as i could but this was back when fire/fire wasnt nerfed into the ground, now i hardly need to use it, worth having if you can spare the power pick but if not then not a big deal.
Only thing i would say is having it will make you a more all around team build as alot of people want to see taunt on a tank.
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use my powers and use my fire mastery to get the aggro of enemys out of melee range
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Well, fire mastery isn't available until 41st lvl. So up until then what did you use? AFAIK a fire tank has no other ranged attacks.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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use my powers and use my fire mastery to get the aggro of enemys out of melee range
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Well, fire mastery isn't available until 41st lvl. So up until then what did you use? AFAIK a fire tank has no other ranged attacks.
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Fire Breath slotted for range perhaps? :O
Also from what i've heard ancillary powerpools don't have AoE taunt but only have brute like single target taunt, so for serious ranged aggro control you have to wait until Fireball at level 47.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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Also from what i've heard ancillary powerpools don't have AoE taunt but only have brute like single target taunt, so for serious ranged aggro control you have to wait until Fireball at level 47.
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That's what I was thinking, but then, you can't be too hard on fire tanks, given their relative fragility, if I was a fire tank I wouldn't want to be pulling too much agro either.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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Also from what i've heard ancillary powerpools don't have AoE taunt but only have brute like single target taunt, so for serious ranged aggro control you have to wait until Fireball at level 47.
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That's what I was thinking, but then, you can't be too hard on fire tanks, given their relative fragility, if I was a fire tank I wouldn't want to be pulling too much agro either.
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My fire tank at level 26 ( not got Tough yet ) seems to be okay so far. Burn is reasonable damage mitigation in it's own strange way and Healing Flames is satisfyingly available. IMO taunt is not about getting lots of aggro ( that's what Combustion is for ) or keeping aggro ( Blazing Aura ) it is about getting the particularly bit of aggro ( normally 1 or 2 enemies ) that is going after a teammate who can't handle it without losing control of the aggro you currently have ( 4+ enemies ).
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
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it is about getting the particularly bit of aggro ( normally 1 or 2 enemies ) that is going after a teammate who can't handle it without losing control of the aggro you currently have ( 4+ enemies ).
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My own tank, a lvl34 stone/stone will attempt to hoard ALL the agro, even in a spawn balanced for an 8 man team. That means 10+ mobs, more than the mudpots can handle - especialy if they're big foes like DE which may not pack in around you very tightly, so taunt become essential for keeping the herd together.
Then of course you team may include a PB or nrg blaster who blow your carefully constructed herd all to buggery and you have to gather up the agro again.
Then of course, there's pulling. Without taunt you have to rely on someone else with a ranged attack to pull and then grab the agro off them.
The bottom line is simply this. You *can* tank without taunt, but if you want to be a very good tank then it's a must.
Personally I like to known to be very good at something - it makes getting on teams SO much easier.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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Also from what i've heard ancillary powerpools don't have AoE taunt but only have brute like single target taunt, so for serious ranged aggro control you have to wait until Fireball at level 47.
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That's what I was thinking, but then, you can't be too hard on fire tanks, given their relative fragility, if I was a fire tank I wouldn't want to be pulling too much agro either.
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i dissagree that fire tanks are fragile! thay me not be as solid as a stone tanker but we do alright after lvl20 and stamina the main reason for my tank ever going down was a lack of end. and shields droping the only thing with that is untill you get acro you suffer from knockbacks. and wile your flopping around on the floor you lose agro so in a word i would say taunt is essential. I managed without it for so long because i used to team with another tank whenever i could, if i lost the agro they could pick it up
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use my powers and use my fire mastery to get the aggro of enemys out of melee range
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Well, fire mastery isn't available until 41st lvl. So up until then what did you use? AFAIK a fire tank has no other ranged attacks.
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i used consume and combustion
i was around before most of the fire tank nerfs when fire/fire tanks were great at tanking and wernt fragile and were still not fragile i can hold alot of aggroe and the only reason the fire/fire tanks were nerfed to hell was because of powerlevelers
Whilst opinions on taunt vary, I have to admit that, for two reasons, I find it too useful to respec out of my lvl 43 inv/fire tank.
Firstly, whilst I use combustion and fire sword circle to punchvoke and keep aggro, and have a decent gauntlet, strays do sometimes get away and taunt is a good way of getting aggro off a squishy and back onto you.
Second, and this is more of an issue at higher levels, I can only really retain the aggro from AVs and GMs if I taunt them directly. Maybe I just need a stronger gauntlet, although it's generally fine for normal mobs, but I suspect not.
I tend to agree that you can tank without taunt, but I've never been tempted to drop it for something else.
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I tend to agree that you can tank without taunt, but I've never been tempted to drop it for something else.
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That's the best way to sum it up IMO. If you're just starting out then go without it until lvl20. You'll have much more fun leaping about getting aggro with your auras and aoes. But once things start to get serious then it's a LOT easier to have it. Tanks are one of the ATs where it pays to massivly overspecialise in one thing. Don't worry about loosing attacks from your chain if it means you get better aggro grabbing powers. My attack chain is just KO blow and kick and I do ok (mind you I don't solo).
When as a firetanker your accuracy is debuffed your aura could be there for visual effect only and the secondary taunt could be the only thing to save the team. Sure you could always avoid certain enemies of certain level and never see any of that but i like to try and build a tanker with not just a concept but also useful versus as much as the game content as possible.
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My attack chain is just KO blow and kick and I do ok (mind you I don't solo).
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You must be jab, kick and knockout blow and brawl and the origin power. You would of gained slightly better dps from choosing haymaker before knockout blow and boxing instead of kick, but kick is better for anyone with a weapon draw time.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Does a fire/fire tank need taunt?? remember they have blazing aura, combustion, burn and fire swoard circle which are all PBAoE