The holds are same mag as controllers, and viable in PvP. Fearsome stare is very nice for PvP, as fear is not commonly protected against. The yoHit debuffs are still good, but not as good as in PvE, especially against blasters with aim+BU. You might consider that stun power from psi blast (name escapes me now) to drom acrobatics so your holds will get people with it better.
I noticed a couple of really nice potential PvP powers in the PSI set. Theres one that does minimal damage but Disorientates, which I believe is a toggle dropper?
Has anyone enhanced the immobs in Subdue for PvP as I discussed in the OP?
Defenders can be key in PvP, although I don't think Dark Miasma is the strongest say compared with Radiation or Storm. The fact that it has a Hold in Petrifying Gaze (which has nothing to do with fear, it's a standard Hold), the quasi-hold in Stare, and the fear resistance in Shadow Fall are probably the standout powers in PvP.
The problem with Dark is that it offers the least buffage and the de-buffs are a bit iffy, like you say the -Acc which I wouldn't say is weak but not awesome compared with the other sets; getting hit with Lingering Radiation and it's like being taken out of the game.
Here are my opinions on your questions.
1. Not sure about this one. I'll leave it for someone with psi experience.
2. Off the top of my head, PG is mag 3. Useful for taking out squishies If you can stack it with the any holds psi may have (have no idea if it does or not) it would be very useful.
3. See 1 above.
4. Fearsome stare: Excellent PvP power. Very few things have resistance to terror. Petrefying gaze: Useful PvP power, see 2 above.
5. It very much depends on who you are fighting. 1v1 with good use of fluffy they are very good - I've taken on blappers before and the -to hit is enough to keep you alive and fighting, particularly when the -dam as well. Pre-fluffy it is a lot more risky, as one detoggle can ruin your day. Against larger teams though Darkest Night suffers, as most of the time they will not attack as a group.
Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto
Cheers DC and Filth.
I think the main reason I went with DM was (in no particular order), to get Fluffy which has got to be a big multiplier of your inherent potential, FS and PG. I really want to make these powers the cornerstone of the build to give me semi-controller like abilities.
With the build I am really trying to maximise on the more obscure damage types.
If anyone has any PSI experience I would really like to hear your feedback on the benefits of slotting for secondary affects (or not, as the case may be).
It's an interesting power combination; the defender for Team Redemption, the bantam team I was in for S4, was Dark/Dark (Zwerman, Luudo on these boards) and he was very effective. Dark does have some sneaky bonuses, like the resistance in Shadowfall does look pretty good vs Energy.
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Hello All,
I'm sure this is a much posted on topic but the ol' SG is getting into PvP in a big way and crying out for PvP builds. Seeing as defenders have been much maligned recently I thought I would give one a go.
I have rolled a Dark/PSI defender. Please could you answer some of the questions below and provide some ideas for this build;
1. I really like Subdue from the PSI secondary. If slotted with Immobilisation enhancers (2x Acc 2x Dam 2x Immob) does this produce a reasonable immob in PvP.
2. What is the magnitude for defender holds? Is this viable in PvP?
3. What other powers in the PSI secondary should I be slotting for secondary effects?
4. Going to get Fearsome Stare and Petrifying Gaze. Again, how effective are they in PvP?
5. With everyone rushing out to get Perception enhancing powers are the Acc debuffs in the Dark M set still viable or do they get "burnt" through?
Cheers. Responses will be gratefully recieved.
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Hi Animal_Mutha nice to see someone trying out Defender for PvP. Posted a Rad/Psi build on PvP/Arena board a while back. Dont know how team orientated youll be but if you have slots free for attacks here are a few thoughts:
1) I would slot subdue 2Acc,3Dam,1Recharge (or range). Reason being that you need to boost your dam as much as possible (at least if you are solo). Also the imob is very random and many people have CJ or will use a BF so slotting for imob is probably a waste. Would slot the 3 main attacks likewise.
2) Attack chain is Tele. Blast,Subdue,Will Domination. With hasten these can be very effective but dont count on any secondary effects to stick.
3) Since you have a hold from dark I would skip Scramble Thoughts (Psi disorient). It takes about 3 seconds to activate and youll find you really have to be mobile as a defender. It will not really help vs acrobatics. Acobatics is taken for knockdown not hold res for most as its hold protection is only Mag 1, your hold will easy bypass acrobatics.
4) Chances are -Acc will not have a huge effect on PvP builds, most people will have as much +Acc on them as possible.
5) Hold and even more so fear are very very useful and the hold will allow you to drop CJ and acrobatics on many players thus making Subdue and Tele. Blast more effective.
Worth slotting your movement powers such as swift,hurdle and CJ as suppressed movement is very important for a defender in PvP, you really have to move around alot. Make use of Psi range, 1Acc,3Dam,2Range on snipe will give you ~254yards for instance, one range on any attack ~125yards compared to most people's 80 yards.
My defender is only level 20 but ive fought all 5 hero ATs quite a bit in the arena,(many level 50s), and not only never lost but also never been killed....so far 
.
Just shows that defenders can PvP,(only get ready for very long drawn out fights, took me 5mins to kill an MM in BB and stone tanks with rooted can almost outheal your damage, would forget taking on a regen).
Hope you enjoy your PvP defender as much as I am enjoying mine 
.
Gorgog
Thanks Gorgog. I envisage PvPing with my SG and while I would like to do a bit of damage I don't see it as being my main task.
Having said that how about slotting Subdue 2x Acc 2x Damage 1x Recharge 1x Immob? I find on even level mobs the immob is nearly as long as the recharge so it wouldn't take much to make it perma.
Thanks for the post - good to get some PSI feedback. I bet your a Tanks worse nightmare in the arena.
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I bet your a Tanks worse nightmare in the arena.
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Yup everyone hates fights that go on for 2hrs without a kill 
.
Most players will put on CJ the second they are immobed, if they are held or feared you dont need the immob .
Also any serious PvP people will have BFs.
End of the day if you have the slots try them out, PvE immob in subdue is a good idea, PvP I wouldnt take it.
Edit: sorry to waffle on but also worked out on builder that Psi attacks 2Acc,2Dam,2Recharge can have a brawl DPS of ~6.9 compared to a fire/nrg blaster's 7.1 (not including buildup and aim). Figures may well be wrong but if not and taking Psi isnt resisted much it seems nice (esp. with epic Power Buildup, +50%Acc +50%Dam).
Gorgog
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I bet your a Tanks worse nightmare in the arena.
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Rad/Psi
DON'T eat muffins while I'm developing you.
Pants! Turkey Magnates! A man in a box! Rogue AI! Come one, come all, to arc ID 10107 - It's [i]'Not as long as some other arcs'[/i]!
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3) ... Acobatics is taken for knockdown not hold res for most as its hold protection is only Mag 1, your hold will easy bypass acrobatics.
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In fact it will not. Acrobatics adds a Mag 1 Hold resistance to a player's base of 2, which gives you a Mag3 Hold resist of 3. This means you are protected from one application of a typical Mag3 single target Hold. Two Holds will succeed against Acrobatics, or a critical from a Controller, or a single Hold from a Dominator with Domination, or a Hold power which is greater than Mag3 in the first place.
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5) Hold and even more so fear are very very useful and the hold will allow you to drop CJ and acrobatics on many players thus making Subdue and Tele. Blast more effective.
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Again, a single Hold will not drop acrobatics, also although Fear can be extremely effective I've noticed that escaping from someone who has feared me isn't that difficult. Many times I've super-jumped away from being feared while still being affected by Fear, since Fear doesn't drop toggles and allows you some action - attack or movement - it does have limitations that Holds don't. Fear really scores against Scrappers and Tanks who usually don't have Fear resistance except for those with Dark Armour.
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In fact it will not. Acrobatics adds a Mag 1 Hold resistance to a player's base of 2, which gives you a Mag3 Hold resist of 3. This means you are protected from one application of a typical Mag3 single target Hold.
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Which is one of the reasons I liked the idea of Subdue. Slotted 2x Acc 3x Dam 1x Recharge I should be able to spam it and stack immobs quite easily. The only thing that I was concerned about was the actual chance of a immob happening when a player has been hit. Does anyone know how frequently this occurs?
In a completely unscientific piece of observation I would say in PvE an Immob occurs about 50% of the time against even lvl mobs.
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In fact it will not. Acrobatics adds a Mag 1 Hold resistance to a player's base of 2, which gives you a Mag3 Hold resist of 3. This means you are protected from one application of a typical Mag3 single target Hold.
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Which is one of the reasons I liked the idea of Subdue. Slotted 2x Acc 3x Dam 1x Recharge I should be able to spam it and stack immobs quite easily. The only thing that I was concerned about was the actual chance of a immob happening when a player has been hit. Does anyone know how frequently this occurs?
In a completely unscientific piece of observation I would say in PvE an Immob occurs about 50% of the time against even lvl mobs.
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From a Psychic Blast guide I read it doesn't look too good. If I was in your position might go for Initimdate from Presence to give yourself another Fear power, but maybe you're planning that anyway. 
Although, come to think of it I read about Psychic Assault for Doms, so the Defender power might be different.
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3) ... Acobatics is taken for knockdown not hold res for most as its hold protection is only Mag 1, your hold will easy bypass acrobatics.
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In fact it will not. Acrobatics adds a Mag 1 Hold resistance to a player's base of 2, which gives you a Mag3 Hold resist of 3. This means you are protected from one application of a typical Mag3 single target Hold. Two Holds will succeed against Acrobatics, or a critical from a Controller, or a single Hold from a Dominator with Domination, or a Hold power which is greater than Mag3 in the first place.
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5) Hold and even more so fear are very very useful and the hold will allow you to drop CJ and acrobatics on many players thus making Subdue and Tele. Blast more effective.
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Again, a single Hold will not drop acrobatics, also although Fear can be extremely effective I've noticed that escaping from someone who has feared me isn't that difficult. Many times I've super-jumped away from being feared while still being affected by Fear, since Fear doesn't drop toggles and allows you some action - attack or movement - it does have limitations that Holds don't. Fear really scores against Scrappers and Tanks who usually don't have Fear resistance except for those with Dark Armour.
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Acrobatics is a strange one and next time I am in the arena ill check it again. As far as I know players have the same mag vs hold as minions, i.e. Mag 1 so acrobatics makes it Mag 2.
In more real terms though from playing about 2hrs a day in SC as well as dueling in warburg and arena constanly anyone trying to hold can easily get a hold on someone running acrobatics.
Whatever answer further testing comes up with the fact is that acrobatics rarely if ever will protect anyone from someone trying to hold them, if it did people wouldnt have a tray full of BFs when entering PvP, (even scrappers and tanks if they are wise) .
When feared I tend to put SJ back on and jump out of reach after the next hit, however if your chain is hold,fear,hold you will not only certainly break through acrobatics but also give them no chance to escape....short of a BF. Edit:Fear and Tar Patch will also prevent anyone SJing away.
Argument really in regards to acrobatics vs hold was that its not worth getting Scrabble Thoughts.
If you do want to test what works well I would love to test out build combos with any of my chars on the test server Animal_Mutha as I am always up for PvP fights . In fact is your SG is also getting into it maybe we can get teams set up similar to the monday matches?
Edit: Psionic for doms unfortuantely is complete and utter poo poo 
. In order to understand how much it really does suck you just have to see they get Mental Blast(worst Psi attack possible), as their 4th power!!!!
Gorgog
---------------------------
Union
Trolls:Ill/Rad,MC/Rad,Fire/Storm
Blap:Ice/Nrg
Offender:Rad/Psi
Tank:Ice/Stone
Vilians
Stalker:Spines/Regen
Corrupter:Ice/Rad
Brute:Stone/EM
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Acrobatics is a strange one and next time I am in the arena ill check it again. As far as I know players have the same mag vs hold as minions, i.e. Mag 1 so acrobatics makes it Mag 2.
In more real terms though from playing about 2hrs a day in SC as well as dueling in warburg and arena constanly anyone trying to hold can easily get a hold on someone running acrobatics.
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That is wrong. Acrobatics will protect you against one standard single target Hold. I use Acrobatics and frequently get hit by single target Holds and I do not get Held.
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Whatever answer further testing comes up with the fact is that acrobatics rarely if ever will protect anyone from someone trying to hold them, if it did people wouldnt have a tray full of BFs when entering PvP, (even scrappers and tanks if they are wise) .
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Please test it yourself, Acrobatics works. Two (or more) stacked Holds will break through Acrobatics Hold resistance, this is pretty clear. Acrobatics does not protect you at all from Sleep, Stuns, Fear or Confuse so it's certainly a marginal power as far as anti-mezz is concerned and of course it can be knocked off by a toggle dropper attack.
Acrobatics is limited and you may well be better served by simply carrying a lot of BFs with you. I took Acrobatics mainly for PvE but it so happens to have some use in PvP as well.
As I say not at all arguing with you Filth, just not tested it enough. Main point I am making though is refering to MaXimillion's statement:
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You might consider that stun power from psi blast (name escapes me now) to drom acrobatics so your holds will get people with it better.
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Since Scramble Thoughts takes 3 seconds to activate and DM has fear and a hold I personaly would avoid ST like the plague. Also while I do have acrobatics on all my chars I would say expirience has led me to believe Animal_Mutha should not have too much of a problem holding people, (then again DM's hold does have quite a long recharge rate).
Also still think that putting an Immob in Subdue will do little as the Immob is random and has little chance of sticking in PvP.
Gorgog
--------------------
Union
Trolls:Ill/Rad,MC/Rad,Fire/Storm
Blap:Ice/Nrg
Offender:Rad/Psi
Tank:Ice/Stone
Vilians
Stalker:Spines/Regen
Corrupter:Ice/Rad
Brute:Stone/EM
I get what you're saying Gorg - that versus an Acrobatics user you could use ST (knocking off Acro) then use the Hold, but that ST has a long animation time and might not be worth it (and I think you made a good point) - but you also said some things which could be confusing about Acrobatics so I was trying to make this clear.
In fact because a Dark Defender only has one Hold targeting an acrobatics user is more of a problem for them. Even an Ice Blaster would do better since they can have 2 Holds, which can be effective against an Acrobatics user.
A tactic you could use as Dark/Psi might be Fear->ST->Gaze, but I know nothing about Psi Blast. As far as Acro is concerned it really does work! It's no subsitute for BFs though.
I was also considering going down the PSI Mastery epic pool as well to get a further hold.
Hehe, hope you dont mind me spamming your thread.
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but you also said some things which could be confusing about Acrobatics so I was trying to make this clear.
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Yup, sorry, its just some think acrobatics is going to save em from holds as stat protection can.
Best chain I can think of is Fear (drops mosts ppl onto the ground) followed up with tar patch (prevents SJ or slotted CJ). Also a hold before and after fear, 3 seconds is a real problem for most ATs and Defender (Aka Stalker Bait ) is often high on peoples target list IMO.
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I was also considering going down the PSI Mastery epic pool as well to get a further hold.
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Nice choice, gets 2 holds in fact and Telekinesis is a very nice power, but costly.
On my Defender, since he is more of an Offender, Ill probably take Primal Forces for Power Boost at it will inhance secondary effects on primary and secondary sets, (hopefully good for Rad/Psi and maybe worth considering for DM/Psi).
Gorgog
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A tactic you could use as Dark/Psi might be Fear->ST->Gaze, but I know nothing about Psi Blast. As far as Acro is concerned it really does work! It's no subsitute for BFs though.
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I have only PvP'd a little with my /psi defender so I could be wrong but:
Subdue supposedly has a 50% odd chance to immob but it doesn't seem to stick that often
TK Blast does knockback
Will Domination does a sleep - drops acro on first hit I believe.
Those are the 3 main attacks I use pre auxiliary pool.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
Well well, your Bil. Not been in SC for a while but always complain with my chars Big Bob and Master Fau when your not about. Your Dom was getting to be the only real fun in there, (save for Frosthound teaming up with a stalker).
Gorgog
Yes, I'm the whiny, impatient and occasionally successful Dominator Bilharzia (Praise The Tree, Qwoorw!).
Not looking forward to facing this Dark/Psi Defender. I count Defenders as the biggest threat of any Hero AT.
If your in there tonight Ill bring my Rad/Psi. None of his attacks are slotted and only level 20 still, (want to get accolades b4 I am too high for SC), but I do want to test him out more.
Maybe we could try a few fights, insps not allowed .
Gorgog
Did you and Filth ever have your scrap in PvP? How did you get on?
Hello All,
I'm sure this is a much posted on topic but the ol' SG is getting into PvP in a big way and crying out for PvP builds. Seeing as defenders have been much maligned recently I thought I would give one a go.
I have rolled a Dark/PSI defender. Please could you answer some of the questions below and provide some ideas for this build;
1. I really like Subdue from the PSI secondary. If slotted with Immobilisation enhancers (2x Acc 2x Dam 2x Immob) does this produce a reasonable immob in PvP.
2. What is the magnitude for defender holds? Is this viable in PvP?
3. What other powers in the PSI secondary should I be slotting for secondary effects?
4. Going to get Fearsome Stare and Petrifying Gaze. Again, how effective are they in PvP?
5. With everyone rushing out to get Perception enhancing powers are the Acc debuffs in the Dark M set still viable or do they get "burnt" through?
Cheers. Responses will be gratefully recieved.