Fair enough, Dave_p. It should be simple enough for me to drop a damage PROC in to Death Shroud on one of my DA scrappers. I'd be happy to compare results.
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Question is, even as small as it may be, why NOT put a proc in it, if you leave it running most of the time?
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Question is, even as small as it may be, why NOT put a proc in it, if you leave it running most of the time?
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If you looking for a set bonus that requires the completion of a set, by all means, place the PROC.
I think the debate is more of an issue of just throwing a PROC in for extra damage. Presently, I am off the opinion that the contribution to your damage output is so minuscule that you'd be better served slotting something else in the power or place the slot else where entirely.
I have serious reservations regarding claims that damage PROCs increase damage output of a damage aura by 20-30%. If that's the actual case, I my very well change my mind, so I'll help test it.
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Umbral, help me understand your calculations. I'm looking at numbers in Mids and the differ drastically from yours...or what I understand of yours.
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Next, Death Shroud. 2 second activation, 12.51 neg damage. Every 5 ticks, you'll get a proc chance with the tick. 62.55 damage per proc chance. 14.36 damage on average with the proc. SO adds 20.6415 damage. Advantage to SO.
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DeathShroud has a base damage of 12.5 per tick.
According to Mids, adding a Eradication PROC will on average, increase that damage to 13.9, roughly a gain of 10%.
If Death Shroud is slotted for damage 3 SOs (94.93%) it does 24.4 per tick.
Adding Eradication PROC increases the average damage to 25.8, roughly an increase of 3.09 %
As I understand it, Mid's is assuming there is an actual target in range every time the PROC fires.
Incidentally, a PROC placed in Cloak of Fear averages the same damage as one placed in Death Shroud. Death Shroud ticks ever 2 seconds. CoF ticks every 5 seconds. Can we verify somewhere that tick rates do in fact play a part in these PROCs. It would seem Mid's is set up how I originally understood it work, where tick rate is irrelevant to the 10 second rule.
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I've run into two problems in my first round of testing.
1) Herostats does not appear to be tracking Death Shroud.
2) Herostats does not appear to be tracking damage PROCs.
Anyone know why or how to fix it?
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Umbral, help me understand your calculations. I'm looking at numbers in Mids and the differ drastically from yours...or what I understand of yours.
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I'm checking damage contribution over the 10 second period for direct comparison of the total damage dealt by aura to the average damage of the proc, and then calculating best case of a single slot: SO damage or proc. Because the procs are unaffected by +dam of any kind, they're going to be a static contributor. It will add more comparative damage when you have less +dam available.
Everything you posted is the same as what I posted, except that I calculated for the period it takes for the proc to cycle whereas you calculated the average contribution for a single activation period.
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Incidentally, a PROC placed in Cloak of Fear averages the same damage as one placed in Death Shroud. Death Shroud ticks ever 2 seconds. CoF ticks every 5 seconds. Can we verify somewhere that tick rates do in fact play a part in these PROCs. It would seem Mid's is set up how I originally understood it work, where tick rate is irrelevant to the 10 second rule.
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The activation rates only matter where the activation time of the power is capable of evenly dividing 10. Because the procs check the targets of the proc, they activate simultaneously (or, more accurately, slightly later) with the activation. The real activation time disparity is demonstrated when you use World of Confusion (which is why I put it up there even though it's not on Scrappers) because it's not evenly divisible within 10. This is why the proc only checks once every 12 seconds whenever the power activates every third time.
I don't have a spines/dark scrapper but I have a spines/fire scrapper so is my friend. I placed 3 procs on Quills and 3 procs in Blazing Aura and my damage is at 70ish percent. My friends has same build as my scrapper but he does not have procs in his auras but they are at 97% damage.
We went to MA and tested on a pack of mobs and I killed mobs way faster than my friend.
Using just your aura yes you will kill faster. However using your other attacks, stuff tends to die before you can get 1 or at most 2 rolls for the procs to go off.
Now that being said, if you are using on say a boss farm, where you are constatnly at the aggro cap, then yea go for the procs as they will add more damage potential. When you have to run from spawn to spawn, that is when the procs are pointless.
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I don't have a spines/dark scrapper but I have a spines/fire scrapper so is my friend. I placed 3 procs on Quills and 3 procs in Blazing Aura and my damage is at 70ish percent. My friends has same build as my scrapper but he does not have procs in his auras but they are at 97% damage.
We went to MA and tested on a pack of mobs and I killed mobs way faster than my friend.
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Blazing Aura at +97% is 136 damage every 10 seconds. Blazing Aura at +70% is 117.3 plus 3 procs. You're unclear which ones, but let's assume they're the basic 20% * 71.8 = 14.36 damage each every 10 seconds, so 117.3 + 3 * 14.36 = 160.
So yes, three procs are much better than +27% damage.
Here's a tip for you, though. Replace one of your procs with a damage IO. Blazing Aura will then be at +97% for the 136 damage, plus two procs at 14.36 each is 165 damage. And I believe that's what we're trying to say until you've ED capped your damage, enhance your damage. Don't switch to procs until you've done that. And then the next question is another 30 points of damage every 10 seconds worth the two slots to you? Might be. Might not be. I'd probably do something else with them.
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"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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After reviewing "Known Issues" over at Hero Stats site, I've concluded it cannot be currently be used to evaluate this situation. I'm unable to pull my old Hero Stats data at the moment, but I would have sworn the PROCs were trackable initially. Presently, the PROCs are not named in the combat logs, which is where Hero Stats pulls it's data.
This is supposedly why it cannot currently track Death Shroud, but I checked and I could clearly see Death Shroud data in the combat logs.
I had hoped I could figure the numbers by process of elimination, (I figured Death Shroud damage by this) but I've noticed a lot of other oddities with Hero Stats. I suspect its mainly a CoH developer side issue with regards to combat logs and the labeling of powers.
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They absolutely were at one point. I remember clearly tracking my proc in Mud Pots. Wonder when all this happened...
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They absolutely were at one point. I remember clearly tracking my proc in Mud Pots. Wonder when all this happened...
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Well I don't know when, but at some point the combat log changed regarding PROCs. Currently, they show up in the log as " You blast Headman Gunman for 57.39 points of bonus negative energy damage!" (Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage, in this case.) The term 'blast' is too generic for Hero Stat to differentiate. On the same token, the "bonus" in front of "Negative Energy Damage" flags it separately such that it won't be included in Negative Energy Damage.
I've been trying to test a Eradication PROC in Quills, and Death Shroud, and a Cloud Senses PROC in CoF. Despite both Eradication PROC doing "bonus energy damage", Hero Stats does not show I did any energy damage at all. It does show a "bonus damage" category, but I'm assuming that the combined total of all three PROCs.
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It would be nice to get the powers team involved in this discussion IMO.
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assuming that you 6 slot a damage aura and use 3 of those slots for chance for damage procs, what is the best slotting for those other 3 slots to maximize endurance reduction and damage ?
I've been thinking of using 2 quad IOs (Eradication and Obliteration), then throwing a dam/end in. Of course I'd go with more dam/ends instead of quads once I get better +acc and +tohit.
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assuming that you 6 slot a damage aura and use 3 of those slots for chance for damage procs, what is the best slotting for those other 3 slots to maximize endurance reduction and damage ?
I've been thinking of using 2 quad IOs (Eradication and Obliteration), then throwing a dam/end in. Of course I'd go with more dam/ends instead of quads once I get better +acc and +tohit.
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You don't need recharge in a damage aura, so the quads are partially wasted.
Maybe Armageddon dam/end, Scirocco's acc/dam/end and Multi-Strike acc/dam/end for 42% acc, 75% dam and 75% end. However, the premise of the question is flawed you should not put three procs in your damage aura.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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if i have 75-90% damage bonus in the power already - why not add some procs ?
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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if i have 75-90% damage bonus in the power already - why not add some procs ?
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Because it would be better to put the slots somewhere else in your Build IMO.
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The builds im thinking of doing this in are already pretty tricked out and are currently using those slots in the damage aura anyway.
It mostly comes down to trading some AoE defense for some extra damage.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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if i have 75-90% damage bonus in the power already - why not add some procs ?
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Because it would be better to put the slots somewhere else in your Build IMO.
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And because if you're at 75% damage, you'll do MORE damage by sticking in a damage IO than you will sticking in a proc. At 90%, yeah, maybe add some procs if you want more damage. But I don't think you're hitting 90% with only three slots without some serious compromises to accuracy or endurance.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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The number of targets affected is irrelevant. If you're hitting 10 targets with the aura, you've got 10 potential hits with the proc.
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You are of course technically correct, but the # of targets is relevant re: your style of play, and the proc's overall effectiveness to your powerset. If you're going to be soloing Pylons, aura procs are next to worthless. If you're herding the aggro cap all the time, procs will contribute a whole lot more to the total. I'm not really disagreeing w/you in any way, I'm just saying ppl should think about your powerset & playstyle as well before considering procs in their auras.
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