Ice arrow is a ST hold. I wouldn't give it up as it is up much more often than your AoE controls.
You don't need PGA for the very reason you site for skipping Ice Arrow. The mobs will be awoken immediately from one of your AoEs and the -damage is wasted on a mob that is stunned or held. PGA does nothing to help with containment either.
For a controller the PGA is only going to be useful on things that resist holds and stuns like EBs and AVs (its different with a Defender that has no AoE hard controls)
Same deal with glue arrow the -rech in glue is minor and the slow is negated by fire cages. Glue doesn't assist with containment either.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Ice Arrow is one of the things that will keep you from needing a heal. If you don't take it, you will most likely feel like TA is a poor secondary. Being able to keep multiple bosses and LTs all permanently held is a huge mitigation effect.
OK thanks. looks like I'll be skipping Poison Gas Arrow and taking ice arrow, and then possibly skipping glue arrow after I've played around with it and figured out whether or not I find it useful enough and if I think I need something else more.
I wouldn't give up the -Dam on PGA for a third single target hold.
Poisonous Ice 50 Ice/Rad
Icy Jax 50 Ice/SS
Jaxon Penn 50 Shield/Mace
Cpt Clax 50 Thugs/Dark
Lady BlackIce 50 Dark/Cold
Lady Black Ice 50 Dark/Ice
Bella Jax 50 Storm/Sonic
Operative Jax 50 SoA
Level 50 Trick Arrow Alts
TA/A-Plant/TA-Bots/TA
Level 50 Claws Scrappers
SR-Regen-DA-Invul-WP-FA
I had to do a mock build to get an idea for which powers I'd end up skipping for this character. For me, the powers I skipped were Flash Arrow, Smoke, and Ring of Fire. I think Acid, Poison Gas, and Ice are all worth keeping. Here's the layout:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- (A)
Level 1: Entangling Arrow -- (A)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- (A)
Level 4: Glue Arrow -- (A)
Level 6: (travel prereq) -- (A)
Level 8: Hurdle OR Swift -- (A)
Level 10: Ice Arrow -- (A)
Level 12: Flashfire -- (A)
Level 14: Travel Power -- (A)
Level 16: Poison Gas Arrow -- (A)
Level 18: Health -- (A)
Level 20: Stamina -- (A)
Level 22: Hot Feet -- (A)
Level 24: Acid Arrow -- (A)
Level 26: Cinders -- (A)
Level 28: Disruption Arrow -- (A)
Level 30: Bonfire OR Any power of your choosing -- (A)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- (A)
Level 35: Oil Slick Arrow -- (A)
Level 38: EMP Arrow -- (A)
PGA is totally skippable. Things don't damage you period when held, stunned, etc, and TA has so many other debuffs I'd rather throw up, by the time PGA was up, everything would already be dead (seriously, this is why I rarely even use Disruption Arrow--most things are dead by the time it's cast).
A 2nd ST hold (3rd? how do you get three w/Fire/TA?) is invaluable for holding bosses w/no aggro, or 2 annoying Lts or whatever, esp when your AoE's not up. Later on, you might not use it as much, esp because it does no damage and has a long animation, but I still would never drop it because there's always utility in sneaking up on a boss and insta-holding it. Just fire off Ice Arrow first, then Char. Assuming you hit, the boss won't start aggroing until the end of IA's animation, and 9 times out of 10, Char will hold him before he gets to fire back at you.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
What level is your fire/TA? With appropriate slotting, char will recharge fast enough so that second hold is superfluous.
Haha he's level 5. I'm not gonna really start putting time into him till my scrapper dings 50 and he's got 10 more levels to go so it'll be a while. I'm really just kinda planning out what I'm gonna do right now.
As of now I'm gonna take the ice arrow soon and then just respec outta it If I ever get to the point where I feel I don't need it anymore.
This is my pre-purple build for my Fire/TA/Ice.
With Smoke and Flash arrow stacked on top of my other defenses I run 43% defense to Smashing and Lethal and 28% to Ranged and AoE. That's more than enough to bounce the majority of any alpha strike.
Hasten isn't quite perma. Flashfires is usually up each mob but on occasion it's not and that's when I lead off with cinders. I tend to keep EMP Arrow in reserve for either tough fights or as a panic button.
After the opening mez I use Fire Cages to keep the spawn from wandering. I then throw in Ice arrow followed by char on the boss. Then I follow up with Disruption arrow, move into Hot Feet range and then Oil Slick arrow if it is recharged. Fire cages again to hold the spawn, ignites Oil Slick, and then bonfire into the center of the spawn.
I then concentrate on the boss using Ice arrow to maintain containment, Acid Arrow for seasoning, Char for ST damage, and Fire Cages to keep the spawn where it is until it's all burnt up. Imps, Hot Feet and Char finish off the boss.
Glue Arrow gives no containment and does no damage. I don't need the slow since Hot Feet does better at that and the afraid and slow components in Hot Feet will keep a boss off me until I have him controlled. I also have tools available to control multiple bosses when needed.
PGA does no damage and doesn't set containment either. The 20% damage debuff is only useful against EBs and AVs. Everything else is controlled or dies so quickly that the damage debuff is superflous and against Cimeroran EBs I can eventually get them locked down using both Char and Ice Arrow. AVs that are downgraded to EBs are a different story but I'm not basing my build around a single type of mob that I will run up against only rarely.
If I had room in the build for it I'd take Ring of Fire for another ST damage power to use on bosses but I get by with Sands and Nem Staff until I hit level 32 and get the imps.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Fire TA: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(42), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Lock-%Hold(43)
Level 1: Entangling Arrow -- HO:Endo(A)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(3), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(3), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(40), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(42)
Level 4: Flash Arrow -- Cloud-ToHitDeb(A), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(40)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Hot Feet -- P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx(A), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(9), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(9), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(11), CtlSpd-Acc/EndRdx(11), CtlSpd-Dmg/Slow(40)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Flashfire -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(13), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(13), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(17), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(37)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15), Zephyr-ResKB(15)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(17)
Level 18: Cinders -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(19), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(19), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), P'Shift-End%(21)
Level 22: Acid Arrow -- ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(23), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(23), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(34), ShldBrk-%Dam(50), Achilles-ResDeb%(50)
Level 24: Ice Arrow -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(25), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(25), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(34)
Level 26: Bonfire -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(27), Posi-Dmg/Rng(29), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29)
Level 28: Disruption Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 30: Smoke -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(31), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(31), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(31)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(33), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), BldM'dt-Acc(46), BldM'dt-Dmg(46)
Level 35: Oil Slick Arrow -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Achilles-ResDeb%(37)
Level 38: EMP Arrow -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(39), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(39), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(39)
Level 41: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Frost Breath -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
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-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
I'm toying with the idea of skipping ice arrow on my fire/TA. Right now I'm trying to identify any powers that may be skippable in either set so if you have an idea on another power feel free to spit it out.
My argument for skipping ice arrow...I still have char and flashfire for holding most mobs. With a little slotting char will be perfectly good for holding bosses with.
Argument for taking ice arrow...real easy and quick way to hold bosses. More control for if I feel a need to hold more mobs.
Right now I'm seeing the crucial powers from /TA as poison gas arrow, the two -res arrows, and oil slick. Then slightly less important, glue arrow and EMP arrow. Should I reorganize how I think about the set?
Thanks for any help