Position vs damage type defense
By
Besserwisser,
Posted on: 2009-05-20 18:08 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Only the best defense applies. This also is how the game resolves multiple damage type defenses. For example, some attacks are both energy and smashing damage. The higher defense value determines how much defense you get against such attacks.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Only the best defense applies. This also is how the game resolves multiple damage type defenses. For example, some attacks are both energy and smashing damage. The higher defense value determines how much defense you get against such attacks.
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This. When you're attacked, you use the highest defense you have versus it, whether positional or typed.
For example, let's say you're attacked with Fireball.
Fireball does Smashing and Fire damage, and it's an AoE attack. If you have 15% Smashing defense, 20% Fire defense, and 5% AoE defense, your defense versus the attack is 20%, because that's the highest of the three applicable ones.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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Only the best defense applies. This also is how the game resolves multiple damage type defenses. For example, some attacks are both energy and smashing damage. The higher defense value determines how much defense you get against such attacks.
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This. When you're attacked, you use the highest defense you have versus it, whether positional or typed.
For example, let's say you're attacked with Fireball.
Fireball does Smashing and Fire damage, and it's an AoE attack. If you have 15% Smashing defense, 20% Fire defense, and 5% AoE defense, your defense versus the attack is 20%, because that's the highest of the three applicable ones.
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Attack type and damage type are two different beasts. An attack could do smashing damage but be typed energy, thus going against energy defense. This is rarely the case, but it apparently did occur in the past, and there may still be existing oddities although I can't think of any right now.
As an example, claws focus is typed Range and Lethal and does Lethal Damage.
Be well, people of CoH.
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attack could do smashing damage but be typed energy, thus going against energy defense. This is rarely the case, but it apparently did occur in the past, and there may still be existing oddities although I can't think of any right now.
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Fireball deals fire and smashing damage but is defense typed only as smashing, if I recall correctly (no time to check at the moment).
There are also things out there that have no damage type (positional typed only) or no positional type (damage typed only).
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
You couldn't be more wrong, UberGuy! Fireball is typed Fire, not Smashing. Burn! (Which is also typed Fire, but only deals Fire damage).
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attack could do smashing damage but be typed energy, thus going against energy defense. This is rarely the case, but it apparently did occur in the past, and there may still be existing oddities although I can't think of any right now.
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Fireball deals fire and smashing damage but is defense typed only as smashing, if I recall correctly (no time to check at the moment).
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I didn't know there were still any powers around without tags for all of their damage types. Huh. Nifty.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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attack could do smashing damage but be typed energy, thus going against energy defense. This is rarely the case, but it apparently did occur in the past, and there may still be existing oddities although I can't think of any right now.
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Fireball deals fire and smashing damage but is defense typed only as smashing, if I recall correctly (no time to check at the moment).
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I didn't know there were still any powers around without tags for all of their damage types. Huh. Nifty.
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The Mind control mezzes are like that. Unpositional.
And if I recall right, Vahzilok poison darts are typed LETHAL, not Toxic for defense.
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And if I recall right, Vahzilok poison darts are typed LETHAL, not Toxic for defense.
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There is no toxic defense type. Attacks that deal ONLY toxic damage will have just a positional type wrt/defense. e.g. Acid Arrow.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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Attack type and damage type are two different beasts. An attack could do smashing damage but be typed energy, thus going against energy defense. This is rarely the case, but it apparently did occur in the past, and there may still be existing oddities although I can't think of any right now.
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Off the top of my head:
Fistful of Arrows is flagged Ranged_Attack (and Lethal_Attack), even though all other cones in Ranged damage sets are flagged as AoE_Attack.
Entangle used by the Plant Control pet is flagged as Ranged_Attack and Fire_Attack.
Are you saying Fly Trap is.... bugged!? 
But seriously, I am guessing both of those examples are not exactly "working as intended".
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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And if I recall right, Vahzilok poison darts are typed LETHAL, not Toxic for defense.
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There is no toxic defense type. Attacks that deal ONLY toxic damage will have just a positional type wrt/defense. e.g. Acid Arrow.
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I believe hydra spit is typed fire and ranged. Another trend i've noticed is that powers that don't do damage (ie: debuffs) tend to oinly have positional tags (there are of course, exceptions). This makes sense as there is no damage type but it feels like my typed defense characters eat a lot more debuffs as a result.
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And if I recall right, Vahzilok poison darts are typed LETHAL, not Toxic for defense.
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There is no toxic defense type. Attacks that deal ONLY toxic damage will have just a positional type wrt/defense.
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Care to revise your statement?
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attack could do smashing damage but be typed energy, thus going against energy defense. This is rarely the case, but it apparently did occur in the past, and there may still be existing oddities although I can't think of any right now.
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Fireball deals fire and smashing damage but is defense typed only as smashing, if I recall correctly (no time to check at the moment).
There are also things out there that have no damage type (positional typed only) or no positional type (damage typed only).
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Other way around - it deals Fire Damage, but is typed Fire, Smashing, and AoE. (At least it was when I checked last year on my Blaster)
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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attack could do smashing damage but be typed energy, thus going against energy defense. This is rarely the case, but it apparently did occur in the past, and there may still be existing oddities although I can't think of any right now.
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Fireball deals fire and smashing damage but is defense typed only as smashing, if I recall correctly (no time to check at the moment).
There are also things out there that have no damage type (positional typed only) or no positional type (damage typed only).
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Other way around - it deals Fire Damage, but is typed Fire, Smashing, and AoE. (At least it was when I checked last year on my Blaster)
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Care to revise your statement?
I even checked in game to make sure there wasn't a discrepancy.
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attack could do smashing damage but be typed energy, thus going against energy defense. This is rarely the case, but it apparently did occur in the past, and there may still be existing oddities although I can't think of any right now.
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Fireball deals fire and smashing damage but is defense typed only as smashing, if I recall correctly (no time to check at the moment).
There are also things out there that have no damage type (positional typed only) or no positional type (damage typed only).
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Other way around - it deals Fire Damage, but is typed Fire, Smashing, and AoE. (At least it was when I checked last year on my Blaster)
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Care to revise your statement?
I even checked in game to make sure there wasn't a discrepancy.
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Then it was changed since then - I checked it out on my Blaster.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
|
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And if I recall right, Vahzilok poison darts are typed LETHAL, not Toxic for defense.
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There is no toxic defense type. Attacks that deal ONLY toxic damage will have just a positional type wrt/defense.
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Care to revise your statement?
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I was pointing out that the dart wasn't typed for toxic defense because there IS no toxic defense type. That's correct. I also mentioned another attack, Acid Arrow, that ONLY does toxic damage and therefore has no damage attack-type defense at all. Only positional. That's also correct.
So... no. No revision. Thanks for asking though.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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And if I recall right, Vahzilok poison darts are typed LETHAL, not Toxic for defense.
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There is no toxic defense type. Attacks that deal ONLY toxic damage will have just a positional type wrt/defense.
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Care to revise your statement?
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I was pointing out that the dart wasn't typed for toxic defense because there IS no toxic defense type. That's correct. I also mentioned another attack, Acid Arrow, that ONLY does toxic damage and therefore has no damage attack-type defense at all. Only positional. That's also correct.
So... no. No revision. Thanks for asking though.
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Unfortunately, he's trying to call you out on saying that they'll ONLY have positional. The Toxic Dark is also typed Lethal in addition to Ranged while only doing toxic damage.
However, I want to believe that this is a more recent change specifically to help sets that carry no/little positional defense and rely entirely on typed defense to avoid damage.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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Unfortunately, he's trying to call you out on saying that they'll ONLY have positional. The Toxic Dark is also typed Lethal in addition to Ranged while only doing toxic damage.
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I didn't say Toxic Darts did only toxic damage. I said "attacks that deal only toxic damage" have only positional type. The second sentence of my post does not refer to Toxic Darts, hence the reference to Acid Arrow, an entirely different power that DOES only have toxic damage.
Guess the wording could have been better.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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Unfortunately, he's trying to call you out on saying that they'll ONLY have positional. The Toxic Dark is also typed Lethal in addition to Ranged while only doing toxic damage.
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I didn't say Toxic Darts did only toxic damage. I said "attacks that deal only toxic damage" have only positional type. The second sentence of my post does not refer to Toxic Darts, hence the reference to Acid Arrow, an entirely different power that DOES only have toxic damage.
Guess the wording could have been better.
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That's what I'm saying, though. Toxic Dart deals only toxic damage, and you claimed that attacks that only deal toxic are only typed positionally with regards to defense, except Toxic Dart has both Ranged and Lethal typing. To reiterate, according to his screen shot, the dart ONLY does toxic damage while being typed Ranged and Lethal for defensive purposes. Lethal was probably added later to assist typed-defense builds only.
I'm not taking sides or arguing, just pointing out what his screenshot was referring to.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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And if I recall right, Vahzilok poison darts are typed LETHAL, not Toxic for defense.
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There is no toxic defense type. Attacks that deal ONLY toxic damage will have just a positional type wrt/defense.
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Care to revise your statement?
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I was pointing out that the dart wasn't typed for toxic defense because there IS no toxic defense type. That's correct. I also mentioned another attack, Acid Arrow, that ONLY does toxic damage and therefore has no damage attack-type defense at all. Only positional. That's also correct.
So... no. No revision. Thanks for asking though.
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Unfortunately, he's trying to call you out on saying that they'll ONLY have positional. The Toxic Dark is also typed Lethal in addition to Ranged while only doing toxic damage.
However, I want to believe that this is a more recent change specifically to help sets that carry no/little positional defense and rely entirely on typed defense to avoid damage.
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I don't think it's a recent change at all. It's more of an artifact from when toxic damage didn't exist. The darts probably used to do all lethal. You can probably also find that toxic spit attacks are typed as fire for defensive purposes for the same reason.
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And if I recall right, Vahzilok poison darts are typed LETHAL, not Toxic for defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no toxic defense type. Attacks that deal ONLY toxic damage will have just a positional type wrt/defense.
[/ QUOTE ]
Care to revise your statement?
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I was pointing out that the dart wasn't typed for toxic defense because there IS no toxic defense type. That's correct. I also mentioned another attack, Acid Arrow, that ONLY does toxic damage and therefore has no damage attack-type defense at all. Only positional. That's also correct.
So... no. No revision. Thanks for asking though.
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Unfortunately, he's trying to call you out on saying that they'll ONLY have positional. The Toxic Dark is also typed Lethal in addition to Ranged while only doing toxic damage.
However, I want to believe that this is a more recent change specifically to help sets that carry no/little positional defense and rely entirely on typed defense to avoid damage.
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I don't think it's a recent change at all. It's more of an artifact from when toxic damage didn't exist. The darts probably used to do all lethal. You can probably also find that toxic spit attacks are typed as fire for defensive purposes for the same reason.
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I wouldn't know, to be honest. My only defense-based character of note thus far is my 50 SR, so I've only ever had to deal with positionals. I was just taking a stab at explaining why the other poster thought they were only typed with a positional flag.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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That's what I'm saying, though. Toxic Dart deals only toxic damage, and you claimed that attacks that only deal toxic are only typed positionally with regards to defense, except Toxic Dart has both Ranged and Lethal typing.
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Okay, I see it now. I'm having another "senior moment" apparently. Stupid brain.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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You can probably also find that toxic spit attacks are typed as fire for defensive purposes for the same reason.
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I used to think so too, but 'linking' the details for vahz zombies shows something different.
Zombie Vomit. I seem to have lost my projectile vomit link, but you can check it in game easily enough. Send a tell to yourself with [projectile vomit].
Hi,
I would like to know how Position and damage defenses interact with each other, is it the best defense that is used or both if both apply?
for example, if the attack is both melee and lethal, is it the highest that is used or are there 2 rolls made?
thanks