Arc 10597: Axis and Allies


Alyiah

 

Posted

A few more tweaks to mission 4 as a result of feedback.

* Added a second minion to the US Army group. The new minion is a recolored Operations Engineer, so now only half of them will throw web grenades

* Replaced the custom General model (also American Colonel) with a recolored Axis America Oberst. This gets rid of another source of web grenade and gives me space for another custom mob.

* Added a custom SS/invuln Statesman AV as a required objective, so now there are two heroes to fight again (Statesman and Maiden Justice). It does make sense to fight Statesman at some point during the war. I used a custom mob instead of the standard Statesman AV, because the real Statesman is much too hard to solo. Possibly some players will feel cheated by facing a nerfed version of Statesman; I figure that's better than getting beat up repeatedly by the real version of Statesman. I rationalize the slight differences in costume with "Well, he had a different costume in WW2 anyway".


@PW - Police Woman (50 AR/dev blaster on Liberty)
TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"

 

Posted

This arc was really well done.

The map choices were perfect and the attention to detail was amazing.

I loved how you placed the player's name in the clues.

I would call the arc masterful.


@Gypsy Rose

In Pursuit of Liberty - 344916
The Vigilante - 395861
Suppression - 374481 - Winner of The American Legion's February 2011 AE Author Contest

 

Posted

I've been meaning to try this arc for a while now, and I got around to it yesterday. I definitely enjoyed myself, and I thought it was good, but there are some things that tossed me for a bit of a loop. So, without further ado, some comments on the specific missions, and then I'll talk about the arc overall.

Mission 1:
For a while I was thinking to myself 'this map is too big', but that was only until I realized exactly which map it was - definitely a good choice. It still feels a bit on the large side to me, which could be a problem in terms of finding objectives - I ran across one conspirator ally before I found der Führer, so if there were any more optional objectives I never saw them. Given the unique setpiece at the end, though, having the map be too big is definitely the lesser of two evils.

In the mission complete clue, the use of $archetype seems a bit jarring to me. Do any characters in existing game canon ever use the names of the ATs? I don't recall it. To me that feels like more of an out-of-game term, and it felt a bit odd to see it used in an in-universe manner. That may just be personal preference though.

Mission 2:
The use of council robots as 'panzers' gave me a good laugh, I had a blast luring one of the generals over to a column of them and watching him get pounded. I also thought it was nice that some of the NPCs recognized me - I actually wish that happened more often during the arc, especially for characters like generals who ought to know stuff like that. It really helps establish the whole 'you are an evil overlord' vibe.

Mission 3:
This map felt a bit on the empty side, although that may just have been a function of my forgetting to change the difficulty settings off the default (haven't played this character in a good while). As someone else mentioned, while I liked the use of large, noticeable destructibles for the command posts, the fact that this map already has some trucks as part of the scenery did lead to some false positives. The other thing was that the trucks look awfully modern and non-military. While I doubt there's much you can do about that, it's still something I noticed.

Mission 4:
I don't have the pathological hatred of 'red atlas' that some do, but it is kinda annoying at times - mostly because it chokes my aged, decrepit computer down to about 8 fps. Hardly your fault, but you might want to be aware of the effect this map can have on older machines. It definitely is the appropriate setting, though.

One thing I noticed: General Patton's faction is listed as 'council empire'. I didn't notice any similar lapses on other bosses, but I wasn't specifically looking, so you might want to give them a check.

I very much liked the ability to rescue a bunch of 5th and have them follow you around as you rampage through the place. Again, this really helps reinforce the feeling of you as the leader of the evil empire. The difficulty levels of maiden justice and statesman seemed OK to me - they spawned nearby each other, so I just popped domination and a medium purple and bumrushed em in sequence. Maiden justice went down to my army of pets quickly, and I had time to jump in and start whaling on statesman before my purple even ran out. I think I might have gotten lucky, though, because I was able to hold them both part of the time, so I guess I caught them with the triangles down (hard to see those things in the heat of the fight, especially with how choppy it was). I think I used a couple of reds, a green or two, and that medium purple.

Overall: I rated this 5 stars in accord with my practice of rating either 5 stars (if I like something) or not at all (if I don't), but internally I ranked it as 4ish.

As I mentioned, my playthrough wasn't such that I could give much feedback on the mobs - it's pretty apparent that base difficulty is too low for a level 50 dom, and everything was either encased in ice, running away very slowly, or dead too fast for me to get a good look.

So, mostly my feedback has to do with feel and story. And the big issue I have with the story is the character's abrupt elevation to führer. Simply put, it just doesn't make any sense to me that Schadenfreude is so willing to put you, someone who she doesn't know and had just recently recruited to help her, in charge. There's no setup at all - the initial briefing makes it sound like you're helping *her*, and then bam, you're in charge of the whole shebang. I think there needs to be some explanation of *why* Schadenfreude is so eager to go along with this whole state of affairs.

It makes more sense from the 1938 end - if Schadenfreude really has set you up as the instigator for this military plot, it doesn't feel too far fetched that you could end up in charge afterward. And making the player the ultimate mastermind and leader definitely has an attraction to it - it's a good idea. But having it come at the player completely cold, and with such an incongruous reaction from Schadenfreude afterward, just doesn't feel right to me. There don't need to be any major story or mechanical changes, just some revamped briefing and debriefing text for the first mission would probably do it. Just set up the elevation beforehand, and give Schadenfreude a plausible reason to want you in charge.

The other story-type issue I have is that the arc focuses so closely on the historical, *real-world* events of WWII. However, we know that in the CoH universe there were tons of super-related aspects as well - but these don't come into the story at all until the last mission, and even then only as two heroes guarding the president. It just seems sorta lopsided that the arc basically ignores that entire side of the CoH version of the war.

I know you mentioned that you originally wanted to have things like dawn patrol members protecting the dunkirk evacuation, soviet heroes at stalingrad, more heroes in atlas, and whatnot, and I definitely think that playing up that part of the CoH version of WWII would definitely be a good idea. I know you don't have space to add extra customs at this point, but I would certainly look at this again once GR gives us extra room.

The last possible issue I have with the story is that the dialogue makes it sorta feel that you're an 'absent dictator' - it does feel a bit weird that you could seriously maintain control of this empire (not necessarily in the 'directing the war' sense, but more in terms of being the 'leader' and keeping loyalty) if you're only popping in every couple of years at critical points. The idea of changing these critical events to change the outcome of the war is definitely a good one, but I might consider a slightly different tack for some of the briefings.

Perhaps (and this is a pretty nebulous idea) you could write them to make it seem more like you're staying there for longer periods of time, write things so that some time has passed in between the missions, etc? Something to give the impression that, while the missions are the only events you'll actually play through in the arc, your character is actually doing more stuff behind the scenes? This would definitely help, I think - while it wouldn't do anything particularly for the abruptness of your elevation, giving the impression that your character has been doing all sorts of things as the Führer (and doing them well) would help explain Schadenfreude's and the troops' continuing loyalty (and your enemies' fear) in the later missions.

After all that, I do have to mention the things that I especially liked. The trick of triggering patrols of friendly troops off the defeat of bosses does a very good job of setting the scene. It really helps avoid the sense that you're an isolated actor by allowing you to explicitly see the consequences of your acts (where normally you'd only get to read about them in a debriefing). I think it works a bit better in the second mission than the third, mostly because the third mission is so big, but it still is very effective.

Also, allowing you the chance to collect entourages of rescued allies is another very nice mechanic. Again, it really reinforces the feeling that you're in charge of an *army* and empire, not just a lone super.

Finally, the arc is nicely evil. I definitely think that having the player unambiguously win in the end is a good thing. There aren't that many arcs that let villains be really evil, and the whole 'take over the world' theme is a mite difficult to have as part of a 'canon' story, which makes it perfect for AE. There doesn't need to be any 'ray of sunshine' at the end - the player just conquers the world.

Overall, the premise and the mechanics of the missions themselves are spot on. The story is also pretty good, but there just are a few nagging issues that it probably would be good to look at.

Are you planning anything specific to use the extra GR space on? A 5th mission might not be amiss, considering the scope of the story. There's a map involving the coast of grandville that just cries out for a beach invasion mission of some sort.


@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.

This is what it means to be a tank!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowRose
This arc was really well done.

The map choices were perfect and the attention to detail was amazing.

I loved how you placed the player's name in the clues.

I would call the arc masterful.
Thanks for trying it out! I'm glad you liked it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
In the mission complete clue, the use of $archetype seems a bit jarring to me. Do any characters in existing game canon ever use the names of the ATs? I don't recall it. To me that feels like more of an out-of-game term, and it felt a bit odd to see it used in an in-universe manner.
Do you think just referring to the player as a "previously unknown villain" would work better here? I meant to use $archetype to reinforce that the player was a supervillain that took over the Third Reich, rather than another random politician.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
General Patton's faction is listed as 'council empire'.
Fixed this, changing both Patton and MacArthur to belong to "US Army". Thanks for the catch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
the big issue I have with the story is the character's abrupt elevation to führer. Simply put, it just doesn't make any sense to me that Schadenfreude is so willing to put you, someone who she doesn't know and had just recently recruited to help her, in charge. There's no setup at all - the initial briefing makes it sound like you're helping *her*, and then bam, you're in charge of the whole shebang. I think there needs to be some explanation of *why* Schadenfreude is so eager to go along with this whole state of affairs.

It makes more sense from the 1938 end - if Schadenfreude really has set you up as the instigator for this military plot, it doesn't feel too far fetched that you could end up in charge afterward. And making the player the ultimate mastermind and leader definitely has an attraction to it - it's a good idea. But having it come at the player completely cold, and with such an incongruous reaction from Schadenfreude afterward, just doesn't feel right to me. There don't need to be any major story or mechanical changes, just some revamped briefing and debriefing text for the first mission would probably do it. Just set up the elevation beforehand, and give Schadenfreude a plausible reason to want you in charge.
Hmmm, this is a good concern. The way I picture it in my mind, Schadenfreude originally just hires you as an assassin to take out Hitler, who she blames for mismanaging and losing WW2. She figures someone smarter will take over, maybe one of the generals from Schwarze Kapelle. But after the player defeats der Fuhrer, "you break it, you buy it" takes effect and the Germans all want to follow the player character. My intent is that Schadenfreude should be surprised by this turn of events (well, as much as anyone with a time machine can be surprised) but decides that, hey, this'll work. Heil $name!

I agree that this vision doesn't come across well in the writing, though. I'll give some thought to revising the debriefing text to better convey this idea.


Quote:
The other story-type issue I have is that the arc focuses so closely on the historical, *real-world* events of WWII. However, we know that in the CoH universe there were tons of super-related aspects as well - but these don't come into the story at all until the last mission, and even then only as two heroes guarding the president. It just seems sorta lopsided that the arc basically ignores that entire side of the CoH version of the war.

I know you mentioned that you originally wanted to have things like dawn patrol members protecting the dunkirk evacuation, soviet heroes at stalingrad, more heroes in atlas, and whatnot, and I definitely think that playing up that part of the CoH version of WWII would definitely be a good idea. I know you don't have space to add extra customs at this point, but I would certainly look at this again once GR gives us extra room.
Yeah, I originally had pretty big ideas for fighting both the military and the superheroes of every allied country, but had to scale back a bit to fit within the space constraints -- I had to create a lot of custom characters just to support the various militaries, and much later I ended up needing to squeeze extra space out of the arc by deleting some custom models and instead re-purposing every "standard" mob with a militaristic uniform that I could.

I may look into adding some more "special" enemies when we get more space, just to spiff up missions 2 and 3, which are probably the most bland at this time. I kinda want to include some members of the Storm Korps on the Axis side, too. For example, I'm totally tempted to repaint some Longbow Eagles in WW2 German colors just for the sake of having stupid jetpack Nazis.


Quote:
The last possible issue I have with the story is that the dialogue makes it sorta feel that you're an 'absent dictator' .... you could write them to make it seem more like you're staying there for longer periods of time, write things so that some time has passed in between the missions, etc? Something to give the impression that, while the missions are the only events you'll actually play through in the arc, your character is actually doing more stuff behind the scenes? This would definitely help, I think - while it wouldn't do anything particularly for the abruptness of your elevation, giving the impression that your character has been doing all sorts of things as the Führer (and doing them well) would help explain Schadenfreude's and the troops' continuing loyalty (and your enemies' fear) in the later missions.
I really like this idea. I do think this would make the story flow better, and could reduce the amount of time travel to just "drop the player off in 1938". It might be a little awkward for the player character to have years of subjective time pass during the story arc, but it's non-canon and hey, they're getting to take over the world. I'll definitely look at trying to use this idea.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
thought it was nice that some of the NPCs recognized me - I actually wish that happened more often during the arc, especially for characters like generals who ought to know stuff like that. It really helps establish the whole 'you are an evil overlord' vibe.
....
I very much liked the ability to rescue a bunch of 5th and have them follow you around as you rampage through the place. Again, this really helps reinforce the feeling of you as the leader of the evil empire.
....
The trick of triggering patrols of friendly troops off the defeat of bosses does a very good job of setting the scene. It really helps avoid the sense that you're an isolated actor by allowing you to explicitly see the consequences of your acts

Also, allowing you the chance to collect entourages of rescued allies is another very nice mechanic. Again, it really reinforces the feeling that you're in charge of an *army* and empire, not just a lone super.
I'm glad this worked I really wanted the game mechanics to reinforce the idea that you're in charge of armies of evil stormtroopers and minions and stuff.



Quote:
Are you planning anything specific to use the extra GR space on? A 5th mission might not be amiss, considering the scope of the story. There's a map involving the coast of grandville that just cries out for a beach invasion mission of some sort.
I actually didn't have plans for GR previously; in fact, I had been seriously considering scrapping this arc to make space for a new arc, until I got gifted with a new arc slot recently.

The positive feedback from these two play-throughs certainly make me more inclined to keep this arc around, though, and maybe add some more stuff when space permits. So, thanks for that! Anyway, I think I'd be more inclined to add extra material to the existing missions (especially mission 3, which you noticed felt a little empty) before adding a 5th mission.


@PW - Police Woman (50 AR/dev blaster on Liberty)
TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"

 

Posted

I spent some time tweaking this arc some more, partly in response to player feedback, partly because the 200K limit gives me a lot more room to play with.

This arc is kind of my guilty pleasure at this point. It's not that popular, and has drawn some hate mail, and yet I still like it.

All missions changed from 40-44 to 40-54. (It's just more fun being level 50, and a bunch of the recolored NPCs that only went up to level 44 have been replaced by custom NPCs that go to 54.)

Arc status changed to Looking for Feedback.

Size has increased from 49% to 57% (out of 200KB).


M1:
* Added some briefing text to help establish the scene.
* Changed mission accept message to better fit the scene.
* Rewrote debriefing text to show the contact is actually surprised that the player gets hailed as der Fuhrer by the German officers, but then decides to go with it. In response to player feedback that it doesn't make sense for the contact to purposely make the player the Fuhrer.

M2:
* Added some briefing text to help establish the scene. Changed the wording to more clearly describe the player staying in historical Germany to run the Third Reich; this is in response to several players suggesting that it doesn't make sense for the player to only visit at certain points in time, and another player suggesting it would be cooler if the player stayed in the past and actually ruled Germany.
* Changed mission accept message to better fit the scene.
* French Lieutenant now uses dual pistols (formerly assault rifle).
* Replaced French Colonels and Generals: formerly recolored PPD Psi-Captain, now a custom dual pistols/SR boss.
* Added back (optional) "Munitions" destructible objects back to the mission (previously cut due to space limitations).

M3:
* Added some briefing text to help establish the scene.
* Changed mission accept message to better fit the scene.
* Replaced Commissar: formerly recolored PPD Psi-Lieutenant, now a custom dual pistols/pain dom lieutenant
* Replaced Partisans: formerly various recolored Crazed, now a custom Partisan (assault rifle/nothing minion) and a custom Resistance Fighter (dual pistols/nothing minion). This also avoids a criticism that I received that sometimes the Crazed would randomly spawn girls in party dresses and high heels as "Partisans".

M4:
* Added some briefing text to help establish the scene.
* Changed mission accept message to better fit the scene.
* Removed recolored Malta Operation Engineer, its Auto Turret power just doesn't seem in theme.
* Added several recolored Council Empire minions for variety.
* Replaced American Sergeant: formerly recolored Malta Operation Officer, now a custom martial arts/assault rifle lieutenant.
* Replaced American Lieutenant: formerly recolored Cage Consortium Officer, now a custom dual pistols/regen lieutenant.
* Replaced American Colonel: formerly recolored Axis America Oberst, now a custom mercenaries/nothing boss.

I kind of wonder if I should have the Americans in khaki colored uniforms instead of the Army Green color, to be more historically correct. Still on Army Green because the color is more evocative of US soldiers to me (even though even our army doesn't wear this color much any more).

I also experimented with trying to switch from the Ruined Atlas map to another map, because of one player's hatred of "Red Atlas". I ended up staying with Ruined Atlas as the best fit for the story. Though my experiment with Invasion America occurring on the Atlas Fashion Show map WAS pretty funny for the few minutes I spent playtesting, it just didn't really work.


@PW - Police Woman (50 AR/dev blaster on Liberty)
TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"