WIP - Old Captain Britain costume

Brangzo · 06-12-2008 10:49 PM

Inspired by Juggertha's splendid image of Marvel's Captain Britain

http://juggertha.deviantart.com/art/...itain-87438644

and the fact that a few people remembered Captain Britain's old costume - I ran off to scribble up my own image of the Brit's old costume.

Currently, its a work in progress - there's several things I need to fix - but I thought i'd post it here for youse all to see.

http://brangzomovia.deviantart.com/a...e-WIP-88520372

the things *I* see are: That big shoulder is, well, too big and seems detached. The amulet around his neck needs to be more centered on his chest. The arm holding the scepter is just off. I need to work on his face - he looks too young. And I still need to do the lion rampant emblem on his chest.

and general clean-up and coloring, too.

If you can see anything - feel free to comment!

Juggertha · 06-13-2008 12:51 AM

Looks good, but his eyes seem a litle too low on the face.

TeChameleon · 06-13-2008 01:01 AM

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Looks good, but his eyes seem a litle too low on the face.

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Jugger is (unsurprisingly) right- his eyes are about where his cheekbones should be. The hand holding the sceptre is a little on the big side as well.

That being said, this has definite potential- I always did like Captain Britain's "Classic" costume, and this is looking to be a nice rendition of it, once you tweak it a touch.

"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates

MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"

goldbricker · 06-13-2008 08:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Currently, its a work in progress - there's several things I need to fix - but I thought i'd post it here for youse all to see.

http://brangzomovia.deviantart.com/a...e-WIP-88520372

the things *I* see are: That big shoulder is, well, too big and seems detached. The amulet around his neck needs to be more centered on his chest. The arm holding the scepter is just off. I need to work on his face - he looks too young. And I still need to do the lion rampant emblem on his chest.

[/ QUOTE ]

The shoulder by itself looks good, and looks good with the arm, but I agree it seems overproportioned next to the proportions of the torso. Is it really the case that the shoulder is the odd element out? It's possible to interpret this as the rest of the body is too lean. The legs in particular, well they look like a fit man's legs, but not necessarily a superhero's legs. Maybe it's worth asking yourself again 'Do I want an exaggerated superhero look for this piece (like the shoulder), or do i want to assertively accentuate a realistic athleticism style instead (like the torso and legs)?' If you're being inspired by Juggertha, who is well known for an expert style on the exaggeration side of this question, maybe you want to keep the shoulder and scale up the rest of the body to match.

It's ok for an unpinned, freely-hanging amulet to be a bit askew on a chest if the torso is posed in a contortion as this is. A bit of delicate balance and skew gives a nice touch of realism in a piece like this. I'd suggest you can probably treat the amulet as a low-priority touch up; it should work out ok as is.

The arm holding the scepter isn't that off actually. The hand and fingers are a bit overproportioned, and the hand positioning relative to the forearm positioning suggests the wrist is at an extreme, at-the-limits-of-natural-flexibility angle, but doesn't really cross that line. You can perhaps try changing the elbow position a little bit higher and draw the forearm more foreshortedly, effectively rotating the forearm/elbow/bicep combo upwards about 5-10 degrees so the forearm appears more at a perpendicular line to the line of the scepter, (which would hypothetically look more natural, and a more 'tensed muscle, ready-for-action' pose). It would probably help if you try to strike this pose yourself in a mirror, and slowly move your arm around and pay attention to how it looks.

I see what you mean about a young-looking face. One way to youthen up a face is by drawing a disproportionately-large forehead, (if you take a look at many baby pics, you'll find this trait fairly common). In your piece you do have a significant forehead that's additionally been made a center of attention from just the way the shading of elements around it is framing it.

Now quoting from Juggertha:
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Looks good, but his eyes seem a litle too low on the face.

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If I may suggest an alternative diagnosis, I would argue that it's not that the eyes are too low, but that the chin and the lower part of the face do not extend far enough. The eyes do seem on a reasonable line with the ears, but there's this big shadow swallowing the chin. If you expand out the nose-mouth-cheeks-chin area a bit, and figure out a way not to let the throat-to-chin shadow overdominate the area, you'll probably get a better balance against the eyes and the 'youthful' forehead.

I like the double-subject mirror effect aesthetically, the pose and the way it leans works well with it. I know you're only doing that for diagnostic reasons, but it might be worth keeping for the final piece.

Keep up the good work!

Brangzo · 06-13-2008 10:26 AM

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[ QUOTE ]
Looks good, but his eyes seem a litle too low on the face.

[/ QUOTE ]
Jugger is (unsurprisingly) right- his eyes are about where his cheekbones should be. The hand holding the sceptre is a little on the big side as well.

That being said, this has definite potential- I always did like Captain Britain's "Classic" costume, and this is looking to be a nice rendition of it, once you tweak it a touch.

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Thanks Juggertha and TeChameleon!

and Goldbricker!! (fabulous in-depth!)

Very Helpful comments all! Looks like I've got a lot of work to do (but I'm happy to do it).

After a night's sleep (well, at least a partial night's sleep, anyway) - I can also come back with fresh eyes. I think i may compromise with proportion of body vs. proportion of that big shoulder and try to reach a middle ground for both (scale the body up a bit, and the arm down a bit). i think I was torn internally between the current (although, did they just kill Brian off in the comic?) broad-chested, wide-shouldered Captain, and some internal image of a more acrobatic Captain. But some of the reference pics I found go either way.

by the way - here's the reference pics I found via Google (and darned if the Marvel Digital comic thing does NOT have any of those old British issues available!):

Old Costume Reference #1
Old Costume Reference #2
Old Costume Reference #3
Old Costume Reference #4
Old Costume Reference #5
Old Costume Reference #6
Old Costume Reference #7
Old Costume Reference #8

and the original thumbnail sketch I started with

And that scepter! Each image i found shows it looking different! Still fun, tho. For the right arm, holding the scepter - aside from the hand being too big, I think you're right that the forearm needs to turn into perspective, be foreshortened to match the hand.

and Argh! the head! I tried to get looking up at this head from lower perspective - so you're seeing the underside of his chin and nose. and didn't pull it off at all. I need ot back up and strip the costume off and do some careful reconstruction of the forms - with all the helpful comments, before i revisit the costume and lighting.

Thanks ever so much for the comments, Juggertha, TeChameleon, and Goldbricker!

Johnstone · 06-13-2008 12:26 PM

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and Argh! the head! I tried to get looking up at this head from lower perspective - so you're seeing the underside of his chin and nose. and didn't pull it off at all. I need ot back up and strip the costume off and do some careful reconstruction of the forms - with all the helpful comments, before i revisit the costume and lighting.

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That's a tricky angle to do considering his mask. If his nose wasn't so hidden by his mask it would make it more apparent that that's what you were going for. I think if you are going to go with that angle though, the forehead and hair need to taper in more as otherwise it sort of looks like his forehead is jutting out rather far (maxed brow slider?) if you look at it considering that his head should be viewed from the lower angle. I think that the chin angle is good but the upper part of his mask could be rotated a bit counter-clockwise(clockwise for the image on the right) to sort of line things up better. The right side of his face/forehead is fine, but the shape of his forehead on the left seems off for that angle.

Meanwhile, it's a hell of a lot better than what I could do and I applaud your work so far. Can't wait to see the finished product.

@Johnstone & @Johnstone 2
ediblePoly.com
All my characters

TeChameleon · 06-13-2008 10:25 PM

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i think I was torn internally between the current (although, did they just kill Brian off in the comic?) broad-chested, wide-shouldered Captain, and some internal image of a more acrobatic Captain. But some of the reference pics I found go either way.

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Oh- the current Captain B is, indeed, a big, buff guy; but he was college-aged when he was wearing his 'classic' costume, and was quite lean (well, for a superhero, anyways)- along similar lines as Spiderman, really. So your 'internal image' was right, heh. One other issue with the outsized shoulder- it looks to me as if it's a bit too far out from his body- if you were to erase the scarf-thingy around that shoulder, I think you'd see what I mean (in fact, looking at it... did you draw his body, then the scarfy-sort-of-thing, then his arm? Because it looks very much like what happens when I draw costume elements before I finish roughing in the body- it's 'off' by almost the exact width of the scarfy-bit >.&gt.

Looking forward to the finished product, at any rate! Keep up the good work.

"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates

MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"

KaraIblis · 06-15-2008 12:59 PM

I like the mature muscular look you drew for his upper body and the solid straight abdomen. If you do decide to draw him like that, the lack of a defined waist removes the broadening at the hip to balance the lower body with the chest and shoulders. Your reference artists that drew him that way maintained his proportions by using his upper thigh as the widened balancing point, lengthening the legs to keep a masculine shape with the added width.

Strengthening his lower face to add maturity is a good suggestion, in addition to that you might also try to tweak his hairstyle (which would incorporate the forehead suggestion as well). The fluffy bowl shaped hair he has now reminds me of Brendan Frasier's baby faced style, or the school-boy charm of Hugh Grant's look before he went with the tousled, strung out, anemic trend.

A good hair cut of that type will generally cause the hair to fall into place naturally. Most men leave it at that and don't mess with styling it to get a pristine look, so let it tousle a little. Also, drawing it to look like it's grown out just a week or so too long (as most men who are not fashionistas seem to do) will make it look more rugged and masculine, but the virtuous image a conservative haircut subconsciously creates in most people will still give him the clean-cut look of an upstanding-citizen kind of hero. Which is good I think, because when you add color the golden 'boy' blond hair he's got is just going to make him look that much younger.