RP ISSUES: Godmoding


Blue_Drache

 

Posted

Hello all.
I'm writing this thread because I've encountered some difficulties during some RP'ing with others.
The problem was as follows: I have created a RP super hero turned vigilante believing that the government is too corrupt to be the enforcer of justice. Therefore the role of my hero was to sometimes take actions that were against the laws of Paragon City.
I then encountered some other players that claimed my char was godmoding, because when doing illegal stuff and getting away with it will make it impossible for other players that RP law abiding heroes to arrest me.
I must admit that there is a point in this, therefore I ask: Since there are some players like me that like the thought of their hero turning vigilante and fighting criminals as well as the government, how can we make these vigilantes not appear like they're godmoding?
The most obvious answer is doing some PVP between the law abiding hero and the vigilante and if the winner would be the hero he could arrest the vigilante, and on the other hand if the winner would be the vigilante he'd still go free.
But this poses some problems that I don't know how to deal with:
1) if the player RP'ing the vigilante doesn't enjoy PVP what then?
2) if there is a great level difference between the two combatants the fight would be uneven.
Another idea is to let the two RP'ers agree to role dices OOC before engaging in a IC battle and the winner of the dice roll would then also be the winner of the IC fight(which then could be fought IC at the arena or RP'ed)
I'd like to ask others what they think of this issue and if they have any ideas that coud benefit both the vigilantes and the heroes and reduce the godmoding elements in the game?


 

Posted

My view on this is: Role Play is a consensual act and should be FUN. If you do not wish to intereact with that person, OR it is no longer fun for you or anyone else involved, then find another group or re-roll.


 

Posted

Doesn't really sound like god-moding based on what I think of in that term. I have always thought of god-mod's as overpowering your characters or taking liberties with other peoples characters. I'm relatively new to Rping on the CoH boards, but I think it is pretty much the same.

Your character creates a difficult situation, but there are plenty of ways to RP around that and still have fun. Sure there may be IC fighting, but I love a good conflict as long as both players are in to it. When Rping your battles, the other person may let you "win" by escaping and not necessarily taking them down, or instead of actually fighting, you could put your differences aside for an agreed upon greater good.

You have a lot of options, just talk with the other people OOC and see what they think would be fun.


 

Posted

My apologies in advance if anything I say here is redudant:

First, a couple of questions:

1) How precisely is it you are able to be a 'vigilante' and combat the gov't? What do you do in game to illustrate this? Simply Text-RP? Or something else?

2) It seems to me, unfortunate as it might be, that realisticly, a vigilante character would for the most part be a loner. If his fellow heroes dissaprove of his alignment, it seems likely they would only meet up once in a blue moon when circumstances require this. So why exactly are these other, dissaproving characters, even around to see you commit these acts they care not for?

In the event of another hero wishing to 'arrest' you: As it has already been said, clearly PvP is the way to go. Likewise, a T1 text-battle could take place if someone wishes to complain about having to PvP (though, that seems a bit childish considering this person wishes to play a character who is commiting 'naughty' acts, yet remain free of punishment or at least the risk of punishment ICly).

Likewise, I saw someone mention an 'escape' for the 'criminal'. Some sort of gentlemens rules could be made up in that you do PvP or T1 text-battle and upon the first defeat, one can opt out of being 'arrested' and simply 'flee' like a coward. A second defeat/arrest could be mandatory 'jail time' of say... one day? A third more intrusive to the character and so on.

You simply need to sit down OOCly as a group and settle some ground rules. Too many times have I seen RPers try to RP without rules (claiming you don't 'need' them, this is just for fun) and it -always- turns sour due to differing opinions. You need to SETTLE pre-IC, so opinions become moot and things simply move along with more rythem and simplicity (which IMO, is where the fun is; it is difficult to get a sense of story when you consistently have to slip OOC to null and void IC actions and events).

I digress. : P Hope this was somewhat helpful.


 

Posted

Reply to Vennence:
First I want to apologize for this rather primitive reply because this is the first time I've ever done this and I wanted to quote your questions and then provide you with the answers one at a time, but I don't know how, so bear with me...
1) Yes I illustrate my char's vigilante behaviour by text RP. For example if I choose a mission from an NPC like, let's say, "defeat all villains in lab" I RP that instead of arresting the villains I punish the villains in my own way. I also RP'ed setting fire to that particular lab in the NPC lab mission.

2) In this particular case where a RP'er accused me of godmoding we had a mutual friend (IC) who joined my group and thus became a vigilante. The RP'er who accused me claimed that my influence on his friend forced the "accuser's" char to now view his friend as a criminal and I had no right to making this happen. (Our mutual friend had apparently told the accusing hero of our vigilante actions)

I understand your comment about a player RP'ing a vigilante who commits "naughty" acts and then doesn't want to face the consequences or punishment in the form of a pvp battle, is a bit childish perhaps, but in my case it's not that I don't want my char to be held account for his actions or prosecuted in some way(IC), it's just that I simply do not and never have enjoyed PvP battles. Unfortunately I'm not sure what a T1 text battle is, but if it means something like rolling dices OOC in order to determin the winner of the battle IC, I'm all for that and if that means when losing the battle my char had to go to jail or somehow be punished for his actions, I wouldn't mind that one bit.

Your "gentlemen's rules"- suggestion is definately a possibility...

I must admit that I view sitting down "OOCly as a group and
settle some ground rules" as something I'd prefer to avoid because I believe that would mean revealing a whole plot or ideas for a storyline, which would to some extent, remove the element of surprise when RP'ing, and that would make it less interesting.
Furthermore setting ground rules beforehand is a bit like having to ask for permision to play the way you want from others and I don't like when people dictate me how I must RP.
Although I do see your point that without the ground rules there would be too much OOC arguments and the voiding of IC actions.
*Sigh* I guess the ground rules are a necessary evil...

Thank you very much for replying. It DID help or at least made me think even harder about what can be done about this issue.


 

Posted

First of all thank you for replying.

Second, I'd like to point out that the RP'ing I am referring to happened in the game and not on the RP boards. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear in my original post.

With that said I now would like to say that I agree with you in all of the points you made. Especially the one that said that it would be best to set aside one's differences and join forces for the greater good.
After all we are all heroes in our own way...more or less


 

Posted

I agree with your view totally, but in order to avoid having people quitting the RP "event"(in lack of a better word) or quitting them yourself because you don't like people's RP style, you'll have to agree on how the RP'ing should be done beforehand to some extent, unfortunately.
I also would like to say that I'm referring to RP in the game, not the RP boards found in this forum.

Thank you very much for your reply. I thought I wouldn't get any


 

Posted

First, I too would like to apologize, for being a complete idiot beyond my own recognition. Up until about 15 minutes ago, I hadn't realized that any of these threads on the forums went beyond one page. lol So when something fell out of rotation, I sat dumbfounded, thinking 'Why would they delete that topic?'

Needless to say, I finally scrolled down a bit further to see the row of previous pages.

So again, sorry for taking so long to reply to this.

About the quoting deal: Next to reply, just hit the quote button and the post window will be prefilled with that quote. the BB code will be [ quote] Hi! [ /quote] (without the spaces between the [ and the q). [ QUOTE ]
Hi!

[/ QUOTE ] So if you want to piece together different quotes, just open and close the tags accordingly.

I would be quoting you now, but the posting window they give you to work in is so small that it's too frustrating for me to attempt right now as time is an issue. Anyway:

1) That's awesome. : ) I would personally love to play with someone who adds a bit of spice to the monautony (sp? o.O) of dogooderness.

2) That's the biggest load of -bleep- I've ever read. The person complaining about you being too much of an influence sounds a bit jealous to me. Either way, it's just silly to give you grief for someone elses decisions. I'm sure the RP scene could use more vigilante-esque sorts anyhow.

3) You don't dig on PvP, that's cool; to be honest, neither do I (for the most part; every once in a while I do have a hankerin' to try out my build on something other than AI). So then the T1 battle sounds like the best idea IMO, and is surely the best for RP's purposes. Let me explain what T1 is:

It doesn't use dice, though, if that was yours and your opponents preference, it surely could. In the realm of text-RP and then more specifically, text-RP battle, there are two more widely known approaches. T1 and T2. T2 is complete bollocks IMO and I can't stand it, but it goes like this: You type out an attack, your opponent types out a block, etc., you type out an attack, and then a hit. Example:

John: -Punches-
Jack: -Blocks-
John: -Punches-
Jack: -Blocks-
John: -Punches-
John: -Knocks Jack's tooth out-

The defining thing about T2, is typing speed. If you are a faster typist then your opponent, you win, it's as simple as that and specifically why I despise the system. Now, on to T1:

T1 has a shining difference in that it requires you and your opponent to be mature enough to be realistic and be prepared to accept defeat if you are bested. You -never- post dmg for your opponent; that is his job. Likewise, you post your own dmg.

You may be thinking, 'Well, why would I ever allow myself to take dmg when I could just block or evade?' Well, that's the beauty of T1. You really have to work for those hits; to such a point that your opponent simply can't deny the fact that you just hurt him. Think of it as a chess game. Check. Check. Check-mate. ; )

T1 is turn based, so typing speed means squat (apart from annoying someone by taking ages to simply say 'Runs away' : P) and thus gives each person a fair chance to win or lose. The general rule of thumb is, you respond with however many moves you are given. So if they throw two punches at you, you have two moves to use. You can either do two blocks, parry's, etc. or, if crafty enough, and circumstances allow, you can use one block to avoid both strikes and toss a counter attack with your second move. Somtimes it's best to simply agree on two moves per round. Here is an example of T1:
Setting: Alleyway, dead end at Jack's rear some 30 feet back.

John: -Steps forward, thrusting a quick jab at the left side of Jack's face-
Jack: -Noting the shift in John's posture, his head is already moving back and away from the incoming strike, missing the attack with inches to spare-
John: -Smirks, taking another step foward to thrust a second jab, and then a third with his left first-
Jack: -Using the same tactic as before, he moves further back, avoiding the first strike, though the second had to be slapped away with an inside to outside block as John moved closer yet with each attack-
John: -Seems to be beaming at this point, thrusting a strong uppercut in at Jack-
Jack: -***** a brow, somewhat confused at John's apparent confidence. A more swift hop back was required to avoid the strong uppercut riding on up to knock his block off. Though, to his horror, that hop back was cut short by the brickwall they had been nearing all of this time. Jack squints, and then crumpels at John's feet in an unconscious, bloodied mess.-

That was a poor example, as it gets FAR more intricate than that and I needed to cut it short. Anyway, as you can see, you have to work your opponent, playing for centre until you can land a hit. So usually, that entails having a plan from the get go and improvising your way throughout. Usually the environment is the best tool to get a hit in; though not the only way of course. I've seen some very talented martial artists (in RL I mean, not the AT : P) post some wacky attacks that I simply couldn't figure a way to avoid.

I've seen some T1 battles go on for upwards of 8 hours, but that's 8 hours of beautifully written RP to enjoy, so it doesn't get as boring as you might think and especially not for the two fighting. So yeah, that's T1. : )

As for the OOC rules, yes they are an 'necessary evil' : P . Though I don't really consider them as evil; they aren't meant to impact your RPing style, but simply stop idiots from infringing on others. It evens the playing field so that creativity and wit becomes the tool to success, rather than godmoding. ; ) The rules are there to keep things in a realistic realm and make the story the focal point, rather than the leet hero.

I think I've said enough. lol Hope that was a little more helpful than my last and I look forward to maybe RPing with you someday.


 

Posted

Don't try text combat on non-friends. It's a time waster. No one wants to lose, and it just grinds on and on and on.

God-modding. Someone comes up to my character and explains that because they have power over kinetics they hold me in place as they stop my heart from beating, and I'm dead. Well after I stopped laughing at them, I'd rip into them over broadcast so that everyone around me knew what an appalling doof the God-mod was. I'd never submit myself to that sort of treatment from anyone but a close friend. Why should any player, for reasons of game continuity, be obliged to be used like a fifty cent ho?

The vigilante hero. By creating a hero you stipulate that you will abide by the basic background and rules of the CoH genre. If you're working against the govement, for example, you should consider doing so in a quiet, sneaky sort of way. Since there's no way for you to blow up city hall or kill police officers, accept that large-scale anti-government activity is impossible. You may not like them, but since it's impossible for you to act directly against them, suck it up.

Next, the folks who figure you're busting their groove. Everyone is a vigilante, liscenced by the government to stop crime by whatever means are most appropriate. You ease up on the anti-government rhetoric, they'll ease up on trying to bust you. You don't have to like the government (my characters sure don't), but you can't claim to act against them, because you can't.

Last, PvP to resolve RP disputes. Ridiculous. The advantage some ATs have over others (and some levels have over others) in the arena immediately and clearly invalidates this as any form of ajudication. PvP is a game mechanic, which is the opposite of creative roleplaying. Anyone who challenges me to PvP to resolve an IC dispute would get laughed at. Like I would stop in the middle of an IC arguement to travel three zones over to go into an arena, create an event, and then settle it there? Where is your sense of narrative flow? Of timing? Folks who want to sit around rolling dice all day are welcome to it. At best, I'd flip a coin (thankfully, also an in-game decision maker available to players) and ask the other party to call it before the throw. I'd abide by that, and it would only take about 10 seconds.


 

Posted

I need to respectfully disagree that PvP is "ridiculous" and "totally opposite of creative roleplaying" in terms of settling disputes. Just as the previous poster alluded to in backgrounds, that one was tacitly agreeing to adhere to the background and setting of the CoH genre, I would assert that game-mechanics are the means for resolving the question: "Can you do that?"

The entire point of game mechanics, or rules governing how powers work and how they interrelate is to address the very topic of conflict among supers. That we primarily use them against NPCs does not somehow invalidate them as rules for determining the results of conflicts vs. PCs. Saying that a level 50 character is more powerful than a level 30 character should be self-evident. Saying that one hero may be unable to beat another in a one on one fight should likewise be self-evident. I'm reasonably sure we can think of enough examples of that from the various comics we read.

"But what about the time Batman gets the armored suit and synthetic kryptonite in 'The Dark Knight Returns' and beats Superman in a fight?" Those are comic book manifestations of what in game mechanics we call "temporary powers". Batman went on a Hami-raid and instead of getting a golgi hami-o got a 10-minute PBAoE "Kryptonite Aura" power and saved it in his power window until that fight.

So to the guy who claims that he can one-shot me because his power of kinetics lets him stop my heart? My answer is: "Ok, lets go to the arena and set up a 1v1 and we'll start the RP right at the point where you declare that action and with my gentleman's agreement that I'll not have anything activated there that I didn't here and you get the first shot."

"Oh, you mean you can't one-shot my level 50 blaster with your level 20 kinetics defender? And you wouldn't dare go into the arena to actually let the game mechanics settle it? You aren't 'creative' you're the kind of role-player who has to always win."

I mean, the rules may not be perfect, or what we want. But then life seldom is. I personally am terrible at PvP, I get my butt kicked regularly at it. But by the same count I find it silly to come up with rules to resolve conflict when the game system and universe we play in has already provided them. If you don't like/want to PvP then don't start or participate in RP scenarios that would result in a battle between supers. Role-play your way out of the situation, or simply run away.

Standing outside the arena and claiming to be all-powerful while having to cower from a nearby level 8 Eidolan and trying to face down the level 50 invulnerability tanker who would squish it if he sneezed hard isn't "creative" its "munchkinism"