seebs

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  1. Since the limit on how much corn could be grown exceeds the amount needed by at least an order of magnitude (indeed, last I heard, we were still paying people NOT to grow corn!), in practice it is as if it were scarce.

    The scarce resources in CoH are largely player time, player time, and player time. Anything that takes time to create is thus effectively limited. Alignment merits are valuable because, though there's no theoretical limit to how many you can generate given infinite time, there is a very definite limit to how many of them you can generate between now and an hour from now when you want to be fully enhanced and ready to go faceroll an ITF.

    So it still acts like a scarce resource, because even though you could in theory go make more, it may matter when you want it. If you want a LotG today, then what matters is not how many there might be a week or two from now, but how many are available right now.

    Since people want these things in order to have them available while playing, again, they're functionally scarce even though in theory they could be created.

    So there's a big difference between the effective scarcity of, say, level 50 damage SOs, which can be bought by the tens of thousands if you can figure out where to put them, and level 35 Kinetic Combat triples, where there are only so many in the game right now, and there are sharp chronological limits on how fast you can make more.
  2. I occasionally, but erratically, have issues where any typing in the chat window introduces frame stutter roughly synchronized with keypresses. This usually happens more in bases or in WW, but it's not reliable anywhere.
  3. Yeah, I have a BS/WP who can effectively tank as long as I can parry a couple of times before hopping into the next spawn.

    Thanks for the feedback, this actually sort of helps -- most of all by confirming that there's a bit of ambiguity and personal preference. I'm still not sure whether I like the fury mechanic to begin with, but then, I'm not sure I like crits either. Fury gives the (arguable) advantage that you have a much better sense for how much damage your attacks will do at any given time, because they're consistent for any given fury level. But the lack of damage early in fights is rough.

    I don't really understand the fury changes. My experience has been that, with a decent number of enemies available, I mostly spend my time hovering around a 100% damage bonus.
  4. How to Suck at City of Heroes (and Villains)

    In most MMOs, experienced players know that there is no such thing as a bad group; there are only good groups, and funny groups. City of Heroes is afflicted with a player base many of whom are basically intelligent and friendly, meaning a lot fewer funny groups, which in turn denys us a lot of opportunities to rant on the forums. You can help. By learning to really suck at CoH, both game mechanically and socially, you can keep SG channels and global channels hopping with funny stories, giving other players the chance to bond as they commiserate.

    This guide gives you an overview to key ways in which you can completely fail at many aspects of City of Heroes. I try to cover build advice, character design, interaction with other players, and more.

    This guide is necessarily a work in progress, and I am deeply indebted to various pick-up groups for their contributions, feedback, and ongoing support.

    Section 1: Philosophy

    To really suck at a game, there is one thing that is more important than anything else: You must take the game very seriously. This doesn't mean you have to put in a lot of effort learning to play the game, it means you have to be offended when other people play the game in a way you don't like, or when people fail to contribute directly to your positive game experience.

    Let's do a little pop quiz. You're in Port Oakes, and the zone is dead. You wanna do a couple quick paper missions to get your jet pack. You search the zone, and there's someone else there. You invite them to team with you. They decline the invitation. What do you do?
    A. Sit around waiting for someone else who can team with you, instead of just running the missions solo.
    B. Send them a chat message "y not?!?" and immediately ignore them before waiting for a response.
    C. Cuss them out at length for not knowing that this is a "multipalyer game, moron".
    D. Find some of your friends to team with, even if they're of different levels.
    It was a trick question; the answer is "A, B, and C". You can't do D, because you don't have any friends. However, the other three options are all correct. Let's examine them in a little more detail.

    Option A highlights a key strategy in sucking at CoH: Never do something alone when you can have someone else do it while you sit at the door berating them for not doing it fast enough. You should always be ready to let someone else do something for you. Option B shows a dextrous combination of two key strategies. The first is demanding that people justify themselves to you; the second is not actually paying attention to their response, and ideally making sure they know you weren't paying attention.

    Always remember that, if someone fails to enable you to play the way you want to play, it means they are stupid and wrong. Tell them so. Note that this is not a reciprocal arrangement; if other people want to tell you how to play, tell them in no uncertain terms to shut up. You know what you're doing; they don't. They aren't paying your $15 a month.

    Section 2: Character Building (yours)

    City of Heroes has taken the unfortunate path of making nearly everything viable, making it hard to do a really bad job of picking your initial sets. However, there is still some hope; you can pick a set for the wrong reasons. For instance, rather than playing Empathy as an amazing buff set that can empower your teammates to steamroll content, you could play it as a pure healing set, taking only the healing powers. This will utterly gimp your performance.

    Give serious thought to completely ignoring one of your sets, usually your secondary. A defender who never uses attacks can deprive a team of a major source of effective debuffs; a scrapper with no defensive abilities can faceplant faster than a "pure healer" defender can heal.

    Learn to slot. One strategy would be to stick with TOs at all levels because they are "cheaper". Also, slot for endurance reduction. You're always running out of endurance, right? So slot your attacks for endurance reduction, rather than accuracy or damage. This way, instead of killing things in fewer hits, or hitting more often, both of which indirectly reduce endurance consumption, you can focus on directly reducing endurance consumption.

    People will sometimes talk about "ED". Ignore them. Six-slot your powers for the trait you want. Again, it's crucial that you ignore, or insult, people who try to suggest ways your build might be able to more effectively accomplish your goals. What do they know? If they wanted to play your character, they should have thought of the name first.

    Section 3: Character Building (everyone else)

    Everyone else's build is your business. If they didn't make the right choices, that will cripple the team. So be sure to look closely at what they've got. If they haven't picked a core power of one of their sets, let them know. Don't let them just handwave it off; make sure they acknowledge that their choices were wrong and explain exactly how they'll rectify the situation.

    In rare cases, a particularly mule-headed sort will ignore you if you keep commenting on their build; this is why you should have a second account. Keep up the pressure. Remember, you're doing this to make the game better.

    Some people make choices so awful that there is no point in considering teaming with them. For instance, if someone were to take a travel power that doesn't have good synergies with their combat powers, that would be a sign that you should probably boot them from the team immediately. Similarly, if someone does something particularly unsalvageable, such as building a defender who isn't primarily focused on the defender's role (healing), boot them right away. Consider advertising the reasons for the boot in the local broadcast channel (see Chats and Channels, below).

    Section 4: Fighting Enemies

    The most important thing to keep in mind is that there is only one right way to fight in CoH, but there are many wrong ways. If people deviate from the ideal plan for your current situation, berate them mercilessly. Don't try to help or recover from a problematic situation; stand back and start blaming. It's vital that your long chat message about whose fault it is reaches team chat first.

    In general, a good strategy can be identified by the amount of planning and explanation it requires. If your strategy can be explained within one or two chat messages, it's probably going to be worthless when things start to happen -- in the frenzy of battle, simple rules and plans are unlikely to have taken all the contingencies into account. You need detailed multi-step plans. If the plan fails, identify who screwed up and let them know it was their fault.

    There are a few core strategies you should be familiar with, and a few general rules you need to know about how to develop a new strategy. I'm going to illustrate each general rule with an example of a strategy built to maximize its effect.

    Herding

    There are several ways to "herd" in City of Heroes. Some players figure that a tanker (or brute, or scrapper, or anyone else durable) can pick up some aggro, draw a spawn together, and pretty much just run with it. Never, ever, fall for this trap. You see the problem, right? It's way too simple.

    A good herding strategy should involve constant communication with detailed instructions. Obviously, the tank is the leader of the group, so the tank needs to control every aspect of the process. The tank should announce where the spawn will be herded to, warn people repeatedly not to get involved until the spawn is ready, then tell them when to attack. Do not rely on the judgement of other players. There is little chance that an experienced blaster will be able to somehow guess when it's safe to attack. Worse, a mistake could result in a team member dying; because of the extremely stiff penalties associated with death in CoH, this is a major disaster.

    Advanced players may find it more rewarding to die quickly while out of line of sight of the rest of the team, or while trying to bring the spawn back to the team. Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster.

    This strategy illustrates a couple of general rules. First, the most efficient way to do any content is to have only one player active as often as possible. Too many cooks spoil the broth! If you have multiple players acting and making decisions, they may get out of synch or split the team. Having the other seven players wait for the right moment lets you keep the focus where it belongs -- on you.

    Secondly, it's worth noticing that this strategy played out entirely differently in the past, before the aggro and target caps. One of the best ways to suck at City of Heroes is to never, ever, change your behavior in response to massive changes in the game engine or combat mechanics.

    Mining

    Let's say you're not a tank. How do you make sure everything is about you? Simple! Set up mines and time bombs. These are a great way to keep gameplay focused, and therefore efficient, as you carefully set up a large mine field, describing in detail the order in which someone should pull a spawn through the field. While you're talking, and they're listening, the group is working the way it is supposed to.

    Again, see how the focus of the group on a single player makes that player more important and builds team spirit.

    Be careful not to use mining strategies only against spawns that are otherwise too hard for the group, or selectively based on circumstances. The point of a strategy is to use it all the time.

    Healing

    Pure healers are a build strategy, but healing is also a combat strategy. The key to healing is that you want to heal damage. That means damage has to be taken, first. Resistance and defense buffs for players reduce incoming damage, and that means less healing. Similarly, to-hit and damage debuffs for mobs mean less incoming damage, and thus less healing. But healing is what keeps you alive, so those things are bad.

    If you aren't dying, it is because someone is healing you. Sometimes, people will try to claim that they are helping by using powers which don't heal you. Don't be fooled. No green numbers? Boot that defender and get someone who knows how to play the game.

    Section 5: Chats and Channels

    Global channels, supergroup and coalition, broadcast, team chat, the help channel... All of these media exist to serve you. Be sure to use the right medium for any communication. Usually, that will be the broadcast channel or a global channel.

    The most important thing to understand about channels is the word "trolling". Trolling is the process of doing things which create drama, such as disagreeing with you, or providing some kind of reference or citation in support of a claim. People who do this are doing it because they love drama. Of course, in part they're getting the right idea; the purpose of channels is to provide a venue for drama. Every channel, whether it's a "global" channel or local broadcast, is there to provide entertainment to the participants, in the form of drama.

    On rare occasions, people will fail to specifically identify their religion or the intimate details of the sex life. Luckily, you can always tell, so you can use these as the basis of a compelling argument as to the worth of their contributions. This can, of course, lead to people trying to "troll" you by claiming that your behavior is offensive. Remember to petition them for harassment when they do this, especially if they announce that they have reported your behavior to the GMs.

    Special case: Tells

    Tells are a special case, because they are sort of like a channel, in that there are social norms for how they're used. First off, never use tells as a preamble to a super group or team invite. Just invite people. What would you tell them that they wouldn't get from the invite window? You don't want picky people with a sense of entitlement who are only interested in some teams, or might have expectations of a super group. These people will turn out to be horrible whiners. No, you want people who will click yes on anything you ask.

    That said, it is of course perfectly reasonable to send people tells asking them to join your super group. Don't restrict this to people you've met, or that you know in some way; as the section on super group recruiting will explain, limiting the field that way hurts your chances. Ask everyone. Use the search window to find people, so you don't risk missing people on the grounds that they're already in a super group or something stupid like that.

    Section 6: Teaming

    Blind invites. Nothing will fill a team faster than running down the search window clicking invite-to-team as fast as you can.

    Running a team is a heavy responsibility. To run a team, you have to be ready to make fun of how people play the game, kick them from the team if they annoy you, and sit around saying "ne1 hav bank mis?" Furthermore, it is up to you to ensure that your team composition is viable for missions. If you are running a level 28 team, for instance, do not invite anyone under level 26 to your team; they will be a liability to the team. Similarly, don't invite anyone over level 30, because when they "exemp" down, they will forget how to play their character.

    You may find it more rewarding to play on teams run by other people. This gives you a great opportunity to educate them about how to run a team more effectively. The most effective way to get a team is to pick a zone where there's a lot of under-dressed female heroes you can look at, and stand in one place saying "lft" in broadcast. Try not to be too specific about your archetype and level.

    If you are running a team, be sure to focus on the most crucial support role; be the person who gets the mission, then show leadership in helping people understand the mission objectives. For instance, if you could find a hunting mission, you could direct people to the most efficient way to repeatedly complete it. A decisive and clear-speaking leader could summarize this in only a few words; perhaps "Go. Hunt. Kill skulz."

    Section 7: Running a Super Group

    It's a tough call whether you should run your own super group or try to steal someone else's. The key thing is that you'd better be in charge. You may wonder how to tell whether a super group is good. Conveniently, the game provides an objective and reliable measure of the quality of supergroups, called "prestige". As the name suggests, this is a direct measure of how prestigious your super group is. It is, of course, necessary that group members always run "in SG mode", where they will be contributing prestige to your super group. (At higher levels, this can reduce the rate at which they acquire inf. Tough luck for them, your super group matters more.)

    Because super group membership is such a huge responsibility, it's important to have detailed rules and regulations for your super group. Never allow someone any kind of rank within your super group if they also participate in other super groups. Similarly, never allow any kind of criticism of your group or leadership; criticism of leadership leads to anarchy and chaos, and prevents a super group from running like the well-oiled military machine it is supposed to be.

    Your super group's channels are your chance to impose structure on the game. Be sure to enforce, as ruthlessly as necessary, any policies you set. Policies should be set to maintain the distinctive culture of your SG, and to encourage isolation; you don't want people getting along with, or interacting with, members of other SGs.

    Examples of good SG chat rules:
    • Never use abbreviations such as "LFT" or "LFM".
    • Never say anything that could lead SG members to think that you're gay.
    • Never talk about activities that involved people outside the SG.
    • Never discuss game features, such as AE, which are not part of the usual play style of your SG.

    On the other hand, some rules are so crippling, so extreme, that they prevent people from forming the esprit de corps that marks a successful community. Examples:
    • No cussing.
    • No derogatory remarks based on sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion.
    • No promotion of RMT services.

    Never let people view your super group as a fun way to hang out with friends. The super group is all. It gives them access to the base. It gives them team mates. The super group is mother! The super group is father! Your group should have clear and explicit policies covering every conceivable case. Try to provide your own definitions for common English words; this technique, pioneered by cult leaders, allows you to create a separation between your "in" group and outsiders.

    Super group membership should be all or nothing. People who play other games, or play in other super groups, or play on the other faction, are not serious about your super group. Get rid of them. Better, just keep them in roles of non-authority, but continue to get prestige from them.

    Growing your SG

    Growing your SG is crucial, because only by drafting hundreds of players and trying to get them to level all their toons in SG mode can you get enough prestige to be a truly respected SG. Just as everyone respects any group that has lots of prestige, no one will take you seriously, or care what you think, if your SG isn't one of the top ten. Remember! Prestige is an objective measure of the quality of a super group.

    To make this work, you need people. Lots of people. Now, some people will just meet people they enjoy playing with, invite them to join a supergroup, and focus on whether they have fun together or enjoy each others' company. These people are losers. You will never see people who are having fun instead of farming prestige in the top ten list on any server.

    You might think you should announce your SG, or promote it by running events. Wrong. Advertisements in broadcast channels will not get you enough people. This is especially true if jealous and bitter people who want to sabotage you might respond with comments on their perception of your SG's quality.

    No, there are only two good ways to get people into your SG. The first is to use the search interface to find people who are sort of low level and invite them. Macro this, because you're going to be doing it a lot. Just send them all a message, something like "Hello, would you like to join a super group?" Now, you may have noticed that the search interface doesn't show you whether people are already in a super group. That's okay! As long as your request is polite, no one will mind. It doesn't matter how often you ask the same person, or their alts, or how badly you've treated them in the past. It's still a friendly question. So keep right on asking.

    Don't worry about responding to questions. For the most part, people who ask questions about your group before joining it aren't really interested. They're just stringing you along because you've already invited them twenty times. The people you want are people who say yes without knowing anything about your super group; these are the people who can be molded to serve your needs.

    Another great recruiting tactic is grouping. Group with people, then invite them to your super group. Some people do this wrong; they wait until they know which players they enjoy grouping with. Wrong. The goal is numbers, numbers, numbers. Nothing else matters. Just invite them. If they say no, kick them out of the team immediately; they are of no use to you. It's possible to screw this up, though. If you mention to people that you're recruiting, they might anticipate that you're not actually looking to run missions with them unless they're willing to serve your prestige-farming needs. So don't do that. Rely on the fact that players assume a mission invite is for the purpose of running missions. This will let you perform an elegant bait-and-switch, which nearly always makes a strong impression.

    Section 8: Communications Skills

    The fact is, it doesn't matter how you write, or spell. What matters is that if anyone criticizes your spelling or writing, you must freak the *@#!* out. Nothing helps drive home the irrelevance of communications skills like an outraged rant. Consider this representative sample:
    [Broadcast] You: **** off u ********ing *****.
    [Broadcast] You: wat you abt the spleng for not my prbm
    [Broadcast] You: if ppl no wat i men its good langage is not for u to sho off
    [Broadcast] You: now get ur **** out of your ***'s ***** and **** **** ***** ** * ** * ****
    [Broadcast] You: ne1 ae team lf rikti
    You sure told them. (Note that this has been censored for presentation on the forums; obviously, in game, you'd spell those words out, for approximate values of "spell".)

    Section 9: Roleplaying

    It is important to clearly state in your character's description that other people cannot read your mind, as only Mary Sues can read other people's minds. If someone else tries to tell you what their character is like, this might disrupt your RP. Be sure to tell them off for "godmoding".

    Generally, it is a safe bet that a female character who has some kind of costume is interested in explicit sexual roleplaying. Remember not to kill the mood by getting all meta-gamey and asking about this; it breaks immersion.

    People often won't know how they should react to your character; you can provide a "roleplaying hook" by describing exactly how they react to your character. For instance, if your skin exudes a powerful poison, it's important to tell people up front that anyone who touches you for any reason dies. Some people may "godmode" by making up excuses for why their character is supposedly "immune" to poison, such as being already dead or a robot or something. Be sure to clarify in your description that these exceptions don't work. Here's an example of a way you could make your background clear:
    "A striking beauty. Men instantly fall in love with her and will do anything to gain her favour. Women hate her guts and will try to undermine her in small, petty ways that inevitably backfire."
    See how well this works? Other players immediately know where they fit in interactions with you.

    Sometimes, people may not know why they should be interested in your character. Give subtle cues; for instance, you could macro an emote about touching some piece of jewelry you wear. Hit this macro often when roleplaying, so people know it's important. You can add to the mystery by reacting with furious rage if anyone dares ask about your mysterious traits. That helps cement that you are a serious roleplayer.

    Section 10: Advanced Topics

    If you've read this far, you are probably ready to really, really, annoy other players. However, you can always get better. Just remember that righteous indignation and blind fury are both great responses to nearly anything, and that it is a safe bet that other players are lying to you maliciously whenever they say anything inconvenient to you.

    Above all: Never have fun. If you start having fun, then other people might find it infectious and also have fun, and then where would we be?
  5. At some point, I thought brutes got better defensive numbers than scrappers, but that apparently isn't so. So the differences seem to be:

    * Fury vs. Critical
    * Hit point pool
    * Taunt (brutes get multi-target taunt)

    ... am I missing any? Well, presumably. So what are the key differences? If you have a theme in mind, and the sets are available for both brute and scrapper, how would you decide?
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post
    Was this country out of gas in the 90s when i was using 93 octane?
    No, because:

    1. Dollars were worth a lot more to begin with.
    2. Cost of obtaining oil was much lower.

    The costs of creating gasoline were lower, so supply was higher.

    Quote:
    And people overseas are still filling up their cars for 39 cents per tank in 2011. 39 cent sounds pretty good compared to 38 dollars or more....
    This sounds... odd. Everywhere I've ever been outside the US, except maybe China, gas was much more expensive. Unless you're talking about OPEC countries.

    Anyway, I think at this point I give up. You're asking questions, then ignoring the answers and pretending they weren't answered. You appear militantly opposed to ever comprehending basic economics. I don't know what your objection to it is, but... I give. This is pointless. You are ineducable. You will live in a world full of mysterious conspiracies and malicious events, all of which are entirely in your own head.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post
    Gas isnt made by fairies? You dont say? WOW! Your intellegence astounds me. You apparently don't have a clue what increasing gas rates means for average people, either. Let me school you.
    Good luck.

    I am totally aware of what increasing gas rates mean. However, they increase because of inflation and increased costs. It's not mean people magically increasing prices because they are mean.

    Quote:
    How do you figure people would use more because it's cheaper?
    Basic economics. People are pretty good at figuring out what something costs, and whether they feel they can afford it. Cheaper gas means people drive more, take fewer buses, and so on.

    Quote:
    That wasn't the case 10 years ago.
    Gas consumption was higher when gas was cheaper. A guy I know runs a bus company. You know what? When gas prices go up, his ticket sales go up with them. When gas prices go down, so do ticket sales.

    Quote:
    People that dont make 100k per year (like myself) can't, with a sane mind, go out to the mall or movies and waste 50-100 bucks due to having to add an addition 200 dollars a month or better just for gas costs.
    EXACTLY. MY. POINT.

    More expensive gas => less use of gas.
    Less expensive gas => more use of gas.

    If gas is cheap enough that use of gas exceeds available gas, we run out. Then there is no gas left. If gas is expensive enough that available gas exceeds use of gas, we run surplusses. Then people lower prices so they can sell their gas.

    Seriously, this stuff works.

    Gas prices do not come out of nowhere. Gas doesn't go to $4 a gallon because someone is mean to you. It goes to $4 a gallon because people want more gas than is available, so prices are raised so that demand drops. Then there's enough gas for the people who want it at that price.

    This is really, really, consistent. This has happened in every economy in the entire world in the history of writing. If you set prices too high, you get surpluses. If you set them too low, you get shortages. If you let prices adapt to available supply and demand, supply tends to match demand, but prices fluctuate.

    None of this is really debatable. Heck, in the middle of trying to argue against it, you proved the point by observing that you were less likely to do something recreational if gas prices were relatively high. That's exactly how it works.

    Same thing happens in-game. Prices of IOs stabilize at a price where supply and demand roughly match at that price. If the price is too low for that, demand will be large, and people will start bidding more in the hopes of being the first person to get the next IO up on the market. If the price is too high for that, supply will be large, and people will start listing for less in the hopes of being the first person to sell an IO.

    Obviously, everyone is aware that high gas prices make life hard for people who can't afford them. But gas stations which don't have any gas make life hard for people too, so we put up with supply-and-demand because it's more flexible and adaptible than rationing.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post
    1) It's ok to call me what you wish. .99 cent gas would help this country's economy for far more than it helping oil companys at the going rates of 3-5 dollars a gallon.
    No, it wouldn't. It would just mean people would use more until there wasn't any.

    Quote:
    2) When gas was .99 cents per gallon, i don't ever remember anyone i knew or ever seen at the pumps hoarding it and reselling at the flea markets.
    That is because, when gas was 99 cents per gallon, everything was cheaper, and 99 cents was actually a pretty decent price. Now, $2-4 is a pretty decent price -- in that, if you set the price any lower, people would try to buy more gas than there is to buy, and there wouldn't be any supply because people would have to lose money to sell at that lower price.

    Quote:
    I don't use any more gas now than i ever did so i don't see teh demand for it to increase every year to the point that working people can't even go shopping once and a while due to gas having to be treated like a regular househould bill now. For the exec of one oil company to say, "it's only an annual increase of 700$ a year", is ignorant on his part. Given that insurance companys and power companys are thinking the same thing.
    ...

    Okay, just a quick sanity check. You do know that gasoline is not created by magical fairies, who will create as much as you ask for and all you have to do is clap your hands and believe, right?

    There are costs to obtaining gas. The prices we see in the US are not merely not-high, they're artificially low because we spend a huge amount of money subsidizing it. The costs of obtaining gas have increased since ten or twenty years ago -- both because the real difficulty of obtaining it has increased, and because inflation has made dollars worth less.

    Quote:
    3) I said numina recipes. Not the proc. I sold one a few minutes ago for 75mil. Last 5 were 3 in the 70s and 2 in the 50s. I listed mine for far lass than either one.
    Doesn't matter; you could be talking about apples, horseshoes, or kittens. Same basic reality check applies. If you set the price too low, everything sells out. Lots of people want the numina set. Therefore, it's valuable.

    Quote:
    4) It's getting to the point to where i dont even want to sell good recipes on the market just in case i need one later. Unless its stuff i dont use on toons. I can get 400mil for one now to just turn around and have to pay 700-1 bill in a couple months from now the way things are going. Dont make sense. And if other people think that way, its killing the availability in the market only hurting the rates more.
    Again, yes, this is what happens when you print up huge amounts of money with no change in underlying availability of items.

    This is just supply and demand. I think the component you're missing is that money, too, is a thing subject to supply and demand. If there's a ton of inf, inf becomes less valuable with respect to other things. When monkey farmers brought in trillions of inf, of course prices increased. There was a lot more inf chasing a lot fewer items.

    Thing is, none of this has anything to do with sellers pricing things "too high". It has to do with markets doing what they always do -- gravitating towards a price at which supply meets demand. When prices are going up, it is because supply was lower than demand. When prices go down, it is because supply was higher than demand.
  9. Yes. But again, the claim is not that putting "Married" in your bio means that you want to play Uno. It's that putting "Married" in your bio will be interpreted by some people as meaning that you want to play Uno.

    Which it will.

    Don't blame the OP, blame those people.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Largo View Post
    Cant you go to your NCSoft Master account details page, and print out as much info as they show, so that when and if you ever get hacked you can use that information to verify you're the account holder?
    If that worked, wouldn't the person who compromised the account be able to print that same information out when they break it, and then use that to confirm that they're the real account holder?
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post
    True. I guess you also like paying 3-4 per gallon of gas,too. But if you would rather pay more then go ahead and offer them 10$ per gallon the next time you fill up. 200$ for a tank of gas should be fine, too, huh?
    This is really a non-sequitur.

    Here's the thing. Imagine, if you will, that gas stations were required to sell gas for, say, $0.99, because that's a Fair Price in the estimation of eryq2, Lord Of Fair Pricing.

    You know what would happen? People would buy ALL the gas at $0.99, and resell it at higher prices. Because gas is worth more than that.

    Quote:
    It's not that someone goes to WW saying, hmm, i WANT to pay 50mil for a numina recipe. They HAVE to in order to obtain it.
    Riiiight.

    Okay, let's try this from the top.

    There is supply. There is demand. Some people HAVE numina recipes. Some people WANT numina recipes. If at price X, more people WANT the recipes than HAVE the recipes, then the price will increase. If at price X, more people HAVE the recipes than WANT the recipes, then the price will decrease.

    This is not some purely arbitrary thing people make up.

    Quote:
    The rates have gone up in stupid %'s in teh past year.
    Yes, yes they have. When you add a huge amount of money to a system, prices inflate. AE exploits have added trillions of inf to the market.

    Quote:
    And people think its because someone just wants to go to WW and pay the going rates.
    "Going rates" are what they are because there's at least as many people willing to pay them as there are people willing to sell at them.

    Quote:
    Yea, someone may throw up an extra million or 10, but that doesnt mean EVERYONE wants to or can.
    Right. That is because there are not as many numina's recipes as there are people who would like to have one. If there are as many of something as there are people who would like to have it, it sells for 1-1000 or so; look at, say, computer viruses, or polycarbon.

    Quote:
    But, the market can't see that part of the equation. All it can see is an ever increasing rate due to people placing the sells for the "going rate" or the last couple sold and assuming everyone wants to pay that.
    Not really.

    I have a lowbie who does very little but sell Karma -KB procs, in the level 10-20 or so range. I leave stacks of bids up on a large range of them, and I list them all for 12,345,678. People come along and bid 15-25M. Out of the last 40-50 I've sold, I've sold I think two for under 13M.

    I am not raising my listing prices to match the "going rate". I list at the same price, every time.

    Perhaps more importantly, let's look more closely at:

    Quote:
    assuming everyone wants to pay that.
    (emphasis mine)

    No, merely assuming enough people want to pay that -- meaning, it'll sell at that price. Because there are more people who are willing to pay that much than there are available items.

    Quote:
    Dont get it, you say. Well, that argument is just a lazy one. People play this game to make their toons cool and fun to play. BUT, in order to get certain things then they HAVE to rely on the market and whatever is going on in it.
    There are no IO recipes or salvage on the market you can't get without going to the market.

    Quote:
    Not all players are the same and can afford the same things.
    Right.

    Quote:
    Think about someone other than yourselves every now and then.
    I do. But instead of merely empathizing with them and assuming reality should mold itself for their convenience, or thinking about exactly one person at a time, I think about many people.

    And all of them want that numina's proc, and there are a lot more of them than there are procs.

    The marketplace resolves this by letting the price rise until the number of people who want procs at the price they sell for roughly matches supply. And if the price is too high, it does go down. I found a really lucrative-looking niche, stuff was selling for 25-40M. I listed a bunch at 25M, sold about half of them... and then the price dropped to about 8-10M. Whoops. Because it turns out, there was more supply than demand, and the price adapted to this.

    If there really were enough supply of numina's procs, the prices would drop.
  12. seebs

    Idle question...

    Never mind the question of whether it's "fun" (it's boring). Is it against ToS to create a mission with custom enemies tuned to be easier or harder than normal? For instance, in a not-at-all-hypothetical case, say you have a dark/fire brute; is populating a map with enemies that do exclusively pure fire damage attacks, and have no resistance to fire or negative, considered cheating, or is it merely tedious and unfun?
  13. Yeah, those! Stuff like "[yourname], this is [contact]. I'm picking up signals from your location, you'll have to move quickly." Or whatever. Of particular interest, all the ones from the crazy seer, which I'd love to have written down so I could try to puzzle them out.
  14. I'm talking about the colored boxes you get during some of the Praetorian plot missions which don't show up in the chat windows at all.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eisenzahn View Post
    And none of it fits very well into this game world. But if there are Mages and Changelings and Mummies and whatnot out there, they're not anywhere near as prominent (LOL Masquerade) as the Vampire players.

    All WoD products proceed from the assumption that the surface world is strictly mundane, but darker and grimmer and generally more two-dimensional and monochrome, and that there's supernatural stuff swimming under the surface with all supernatural societies either dedicated to self-concealment, or suffering from aspects of their supernatural condition that automatically enforce that concealment.

    City of Heroes/Villains proceeds from the assumption that the United Nations employs an elite cadre of Wizards to fight Alien Invaders, that the lady hanging out in front of City Hall handing out gold stars to people with laser-beam eyes is carrying the totally real and legitimate Excalibur at her hip, that Nazi Space Monster Cultists stand on street corners handing out pamphlets about how they can turn you into a totally awesome Werewolf if you sign up, and that a large portion of the US Military is currently deployed in a dimension formed from the broken mind of a mad God.

    The two versions of reality are irreconcilable.
    Very much so, and that really is the problem. In CoH, the whole "masquerade" thing would make no sense. You drink blood and have incredible resistance to many kinds of damage? See Azuria for some starter missions. We'll set you up against CoT later. Werewolf? Yeah, that's totally unheard of, except for the fifteen or twenty running around the city, and the Council pamphlets on how to make werewolves. Again, see Azuria.
  16. I dunno what to call this. Not the mission text you get clicking on a mission. The little colored boxes that show up on screen and reveal ongoing plot stuff. I sometimes miss those during combat, and then I don't know what's going on. Could we get those as [NPC] chat, too, please? Thanks.
  17. How well would DeBeers do at fixing prices on diamonds if anyone, anywhere in the world, could walk around a city park, beat up the random thugs that appear out of nowhere in the park, and get a couple of diamonds an hour?
  18. I started last July. I wouldn't be seeing this for six and a half years. I don't have much expectation that this game will run long enough for me to ever see it.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel View Post
    Yeah well, I'm giving the Hamster a mark down in his grade for not reducing his fractions.
    I once ended up in an epic battle with a school teacher for reducing fractions before we'd been officially taught about it. They ended up calling in my parents... both of whom taught college math. The teacher's argument was that the book said 2/4 (the question was "if there are four quarts in a gallon, how much of a gallon is two quarts?") and that they hadn't covered reducing fractions. My parents argued that I was reading a calculus book at home.

    I believe that was the point at which they changed me to a different school.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Humility View Post
    Except that's not what's happening. You're going around the region buying all the cowbells and storing them, creating a false scarcity for an otherwise common item then demanding $500 for the very few that you do allow to trickle onto the market.
    Supposedly, people have done this successfully on uncommons. In practice, it doesn't have a lasting effect on anything that drops more often than people want it, because the rate at which they drop is too fast for a player to reasonably keep up.

    In short, it's like that, only if you go for a walk in the park, at the end of the walk you'll have three cowbells you don't have any interest in, and you can just go list 'em on the market for a penny and maybe someone will give you 5 bucks.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post
    Absurdly to whom? You? 4k is still over what the DEVS and the NPC values it at.
    The "DEVS" (emphasis yours, but misleading) don't value it at anything. They set a vendor price generically without regard to the relative values of salvage, even though some salvage is used in high-demand recipes and some isn't.

    Quote:
    You didn't say bid whatever, you said, "bid low". Like i asked before, "who defines what low is"? If the rates are 55k, is 22k too low? If the rates are 100k is 55k to low? Please tell the people what "relative" pricing would be.
    "Low" prices are by definition relative.

    I feel like I'm watching someone complain that it's stupid to try to negotiate the price of a car with a dealership, because I offered them $5.95 and they wouldn't even talk to me. But that's pretty expensive for a hamburger!

    You do, in fact, have to get some kind of sense of the relative values of goods to make good business decisions.
  22. Quote:
    I'm talking about that kind of obvious and deliberate price fixing. That's not supply and demand. that's market pvp. That's the statement my participation in this thread has been based on. That's the piece of information you either couldn't be troubled to read, or decided to conveniently ignore. That is the premise for my statements.
    Then I stand by my statements.

    That is, in fact, supply and demand in this game.

    You think it's "market pvp"? You go ahead and provide evidence. And "I don't understand why this happened" is not proof of "this happened through someone else's malicious intent".

    Quote:
    Yes, alchemical silver is expensive. It's always expensive. That's not what I'm talking about. For someone who wants to attack me for not basing my statements on information, you aren't much interested in actually looking at the information my posts contain.
    Your post did not contain the information I requested, which was evidence that there is "market pvp" involved". As opposed to the normal insane fluctuations produced by this market.

    For crying out loud, I have the proof that it ain't no such thing. See, I do a lot of antiflipping for badges. Which is to say, I buy hundreds of some common salvage, then list them all at 1 inf. 1 inf.

    You know what? I have gotten as much as 600k for a stack of something that I listed for 1 inf. Now, let's walk this through. I list my 180 rubies for 1 inf. At this point, until the very last of my rubies sell, no one has to bid even 2 inf to get a ruby. No one. The only way you can end up buying someone else's rubies is if their rubies are 1 inf too.

    So the people who are paying 200k for a ruby? That's not "market PVP". That's not "price fixing". That's "impatient buyers who can't be bothered to type a different number before clicking "make offer"."

    The spread between lowest asking price and highest bid is often quite large in this game. Sometimes insanely large, especially with items where there aren't that many on the market. If there's under fifty of something for sale, then it doesn't take much at all for prices to jump from 500 to 500,000, because some guy left a listing up at 500k and forgot about it three months ago.

    [b]Not "market pvp". Not "price fixing". You cannot "fix" prices in City of Heroes in any useful way. If the bids you use to keep people from undercutting you are close to your listing price, you're losing more money on market fees than you're making on markup. If they're not, then no one has to pay your asking price, they just need to leave bids in for five minutes.

    Seriously, I've seen boresights going for 50k, left a bid up for 1,234, and had a full stack in under five minutes.

    Unless you've got database transaction logs showing this "price fixing", I just plain don't believe it, and you shouldn't either.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Humility View Post
    I think you're all reading far too much into a casual statement.

    A game economy that is exceedingly limited and subject to manipulations that would never work IRL is not exactly a strong ground for you to be basing moral judgments on.
    Really?

    Quote:
    And yes, anyone who price fixed a piece of salvage to a 10000% price increase for the sole reason of taking advantage of others for the sheer sake of doing so, makes you a jerk in my mind.
    Huh. See, I'd think that the game economy isn't exactly a strong ground for you to be basing moral judgements on. Some guy said that, and I believe him.

    Quote:
    You can justify it any way you want, but the bottom line is that most of the people doing so are simply doing it to amuse themselves at the expense of others. Making a profit is one thing, manipulating the market to those kind of extremes is another.
    It is. In fact, it's such an another-thing that I don't think you've provided any reason for me, or anyone else, to believe that it's been a component of anything you've observed.


    You're asserting people are doing things... which are, quite likely, not being done at all, by anyone.

    I already spend too much of my time surrounded by people who blame other people for the world being inconvenient, no matter whether it makes any sense or not, and no matter whether they have evidence or not. I don't want to see more of them.

    Yes, I'm a selfish *******, and I want to live in a world full of people who form rational opinions based on evidence and information, rather than immediately leaping to the conclusion that whatever's bugging them is that way Because Someone Is Bad.
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Humility View Post
    Yep, it always sucks to have to explain to my kiddo that he can't make that [insert cool recipe] that actually dropped for him because some jerk wants to market pvp and the common salvage costs 90% of his character wealth. Yeah yeah, he can wait until tomorrow and I personally have no issues with it, but explaining to an 8 year old that he has to wait because someone is being greedy over some pixels gets old.
    Well, maybe you should stop lying to your kid?

    Salvage isn't usually expensive because "some jerk wants to market PvP". 99.999% of the time, it's "expensive" because more people want it than have had it drop recently. Telling the kid that it's because of bad people who are acting badly is just gonna create a sense of entitlement based on false premises.

    And frankly, nothing but rares is "expensive". A million inf is pocket change. Teach your kid to do the simple market-playing stuff (see the "10 million by level 6" thread).
  25. Well, if it's measurable, let's see the numbers. What's the methodology? Specific missions run, time difference made?