rehdjac

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Making an absolute statement like "Mayhem Missions are versus Longbow" based on a single screen shot is a stretch, to say the least.

From that screen shot, the most you can realistically say is that "IF that is a shot of a Mayhem Mission, then SOME of them will have Longbow in them."

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QFT - that is just an example of a group that might be in a Mayhem Mish.

Anyway, most of the mayhem missions will be in Oranbega...






*ducks*

JUST KIDDING! please don't hurt me...

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Haha, nice one!

The targeted damage auras are frickin genius. Nice idea Pilcrow!

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4. This is a newly formed idea, so give me some leverage. A new inherent. No nifty name in mind, just the effect.

+Defense at range (capped at 60' to prevent exploits)
+Damage at melee

What this does is facilitate "risk vs. reward". You risk much less by being at range, but you recieve a reward for being in melee. This way, Blappers don't get screwed. It couldn't be outrageous numbers. Maybe capped at 50% damage and 20% defense.


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This is the best idea for the Blaster inherent I've heard. I'm not too sure about the damage boost for closeness (and 50% is phenomenally too high), but the defense bonus for being at ranged is inspired.

Great idea Blastblaze.

Of course, since the Dev's are unique among anyone who plays this game in believing that Defiance is anything but uselessly absurd (except for going from level 1 to about 7 super fast), it's never going to change. That's too bad because this is a gem.

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Cool. I know an Ice Tanker. He'll appreciate this, though I'll have to explain the finer points of why it was necessary...

Thanks

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You know an Ice Tank?

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I'll drop a hint: the name of an upcoming Epic Archetype.

Incarnate.

Heck - I'll do another....

Coralax.

Happy Saturday!

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Lordy Loo Statesman, please! Are there going to be any other Archetypes based on comics like the original five or will each successive Issue lead us farther away from an identeifiable super hero genre? I can see how Incarnate might fit (Spawn, Doomsday, hell maybe even Clark - though God I hope not!), but Coralax? Sounds like a brand name for a drug.

"I'm feeling a little irregular honey could you get me a Coralax?"

"Here you go dear."

"No honey, not my compendium of super heroes, a Coralax."

"Oh right dear, I get so confused... I hear Coralax and immediately think 'Super Hero.'"

Remember way back when? When you said that classes were restrictive which was why in your game there wasn't going to be any? Remember when your original hero system collapsed and you went into seclusion to work on something "new?" Remember when you came back after hiatus and wrote that long post justifying the archetypes as something other than the classes you used to routinely criticize?

In that post you went on at length about how you started with about a dozen of these archetypes and narrowed it down to the five we have now, saying that these were valid "non-classes" because most comic super heroes could be distilled into one of them. I believe you said that any of those left out could be adressed later on.

Well how about it? I don't remember Kheldians and Coralax on that list. Could we please address the current holes in the genre before indulging ourselves with these fanciful others?

Hmm, I think I'm coming off harsher than I intended. I do have to give you credit where it's do. I was one of the extremely pissed off folks when you came back from being sequestered and presented us with what? The classes we all hated. It worked though, I have to give you that. It worked really well. I just wish you folks would give us more genre before expounding on your own off shoots. Plenty of time for that later!



P.S. Please do not make unlocking successive Epic Archetypes have anything to do with the previous Epic Archetypes. As you have removed the encouraged creativity inherent in designing a hero for a true archetype and replaced them with the rigidly defined roles and preconceived story lines of common nerd game classes, I wont' be making any Kheldians. As a huge part of the enjoyment I get from this game is developing a design for my hero, story, background, etc... and you've already done that with this first Epic Archetype for me, there's little need for me to play one. I would hate to lose out on the Incarnate (as it may actually be an archetype) simply because I didn't want to play a Kheldian. Food for thought.

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Here's my concern. (Note that it's a concern and not an issue. A concern is what you fear may happen. So don't jump down my throat.)

I'm concerned that the game is moving further away from a comic book background and into a more traditional MMORPG character based system. Although I'm enjoying the game, I still think they have a way to go to capture the feel of a comic book. Purposely making this game "unique" will not help them to reach that lofty goal.

Again, this is only a concern. They may be able to pull it off. But I think Cryptic should realize that myself at least will watch very carefully where this goes.

BTW, as a side note, I've been a bit perturbed by how people who voice any negative opinions on Issue #3 have been summarily beaten down by fervent fans. Cryptic needs to hear both the positive and negative, as long as it's done in a constructive manner.

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Exactly. This is what I'm talking about and is preciesly Statesman's own concern with Tanks.

I don't want to go grab quotes from everyone's posts but I'll address some stuff folks said in their replies to my thread. (Which I appreciate by the way.)

To the person who thought they were proving me wrong by listing Tanks in comics. Yes you're right, there ARE tanks in comics, and the heroes you listed are infact of that archtype. My concern with Tanks, which Statesman agrees with by his own admission on more than one occasion, is that characters in this game of the Tank archtype do not feel like Tanks from comics. This isn't really debatable here by the way, the person who designed the game is taking steps to remedy this, they obviously see the problem.

Second, I'm not quite sure how my post somehow paints me a mimic player. I'm one of the people reporting all you Spyderm4ns, Poonishers and -Wolv3rines-. Every single one of my heroes has a well thought out origin and back story reflected in their appearance and power choices. Yes I gave examples of heroes in the same archetypes as Paragon but this was to illustrate that no such hero exists for "Kheldians."

The quoted post above very succinctly states the issue. Statesman is changing the Tank archetype to more reflect the flavor of comics at the same time Cryptic is introducing an "Archetype" that has nothing whatsoever to do with them. This is a discrepency in design.

To the people who say it doesn't matter, we disagree. OF COURSE it matters, the setting and theme of these massive online nerd games is one of the most important ways it can differentiate itself from the herds of others. This precise, simple idea is what led Statesman to say that Tanks were in need of help, because while they did their assigned task in nerd games, this wasn't enough because they didn't (don't) mimic comics.

If Kehldians, why not an "archetpye" of Elves? How about Dwarves? "Elves are heroes from an alternate dimension called the Land of Yor and can choose from the Archetypes of Thief and Mage." Your arguments that Kheldian's are a legitimate addition can be used to justify aboslutely anything. I find generic arguments tenuous.

Now of course I'm not insinuating that I think we'll all be raiding dragon's, searching for "The Wrath"s, drinking potions and working on our cooking skills. I don't think there's going to be a hobbit archetype. But like the poster quoted, I do beleive this is a departure from stated goals, design and theme. They are a race, not an origin, and they are some typical nerd game hybrid class, not superhero archetypes.

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wow, you have no idea what the new AT"s are all about yet except one is probably more on defensive side and one on offensive side. So why trash something you have no idea about? I'm excited for both AT's and im racing to get my main to lvl 50 just so i can play as one of the new AT's. i KNOW that no matter what they consist of that i will love these AT's just based on how well the DEV's have designe dthe game so far.

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I didn't "trash" them, I said they weren't archetypes, and gave well thought out reasons why.

I mentioned that there are a number of archetypes common to the genre and having the requisite power level to be considered "epic" that could have been developed instead.

I also allowed for the fact that right now we have imperfect information.

See like I said, Cryptic surprises me. As poor as I think this attempt at adding new archetypes is, these Epic Power Pools sound great.

As long as they keep them low key in power (think Stealth and Flurry not Haste and Provoke) they will be golden and a welcome boon for those in their 40s. Way cool.

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Maybe the dev's are being creative and trying to make archetypes that aren't in comics yet.

Yes this game is based on comics but that doesn't mean that everything has to be from comics

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Yeah, that could be the case but consider: Statesman has said he's disappointed with the Tank archetype specifically because it doesn't model the comics like archetypes are supposed to do. Yes, Tanks have value in a group (debateable depending on who you ask), but they are not following the comic book model of the game and are therefore fundamentally flawed.

Now Cryptic introduces two "archetypes" that will again have no genre specific basis when there is already archetypes in game that need themeatic help (Tanks) and archetypes that should be in game (examples I gave, maybe Powerhouse, Mastermind etc...) but aren't.

I would much rather see time spent on fixing the existing archetype / genre discrepency with Tanks or creating new archetypes actually based on theme, than push the number of playable styles that fail to mimic comics to 3 of 7.

I guess we'll see.

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Honestly rehdjac, I think it is still a little to soon to be making such assumptions. Albeit well thought out and worded.

Really though, until the archtypes are uploaded to the testserver will we all be able get an idea of what they are capable of exactly.

I say give them (DEVs) the benefit of the doubt.

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Yeha that's pretty much the concession of my last paragraph. Can't say I'm overly optimistic, but I'm rooting for them not against.

Still, it bears mention.

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We're working (or more precisely our wunder-programmer Martin) on a change to melee combat that will enable you to hit runners. No more angling just in front of the fleeing foe - yep - you can punch him from behind!

We hope to get this into Update 3, but it needs testing. But I thought you'd like to know.

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BONG!!!!

I was pretty excited when they announced a couple of epic Archetypes for the game. I figured they would probably be a great oprotunity to play some of the more powerful heroes I designed. Me and mine spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what they would be. Then I read Statesman's description.

Kheldians: Warshades and Peacebringers.

So, uhm. These aren't archetypes, these are straight up classes. An archetype is a general model or pattern from which all similar things are copied or based. The current five archetypes, ARE indeed archetypes. You can fill voluminous lists with comic heroes that fit Balster, Tank, Scrapper, Defender, Controller. More than that the five current archetypes model their comic counterparts pretty well. (Except of course Tanks, all they do is serve a nerd game purpose, they are nothing like the comics, but 4 out of 5 is pretty good!)

Now we get Warshades, Peacebringers. Ok, so, these are the archetypes for all those dozens of your favorite super powerful comic book heroes who are from another planet and draw power from the number of people around themselves? I mean a facet of the class is that they are aliens? That should be left to origin, not be inherent in an archetype. The description of these things is actually kind of too specific for a class, let alone trying to pass it off as an archetype.

I was hoping for actual missing comic book archetypes, maybe along the lines of Powerhouse (big guys who can also do damage), Mastermind (Lex, Joker, etc... smart guys the type everyone has to make scrappers or controllers now) and Sentinel (maybe along the lines of Defender but with melee damage).

Nope, Warshades. Peacebringers.

"You know like those comic book staples, uhm... You know the ones, there's that guy."

"Which one do you mean? There's SO many that have the integral traits of coming from an alien planet and drawing power from the people in their proximity. I just don't know where to begin."

And before someone yells out Manhunter or Superman or something... yes they are aliens. We don't need an archetype for superpowerful aliens, we have a science origin. In the above examples I gave Manhunter could be a Science Powerhouse. There's not, and probably never will be (hopefully) an archetype that you can fit Clark in.

Pretty disappointed. Kheldian's not an origin, it's a race. Warshade and Peacebringer aren't archetypes in comics, they're classes in a nerd game. And not only that they seem to be extremely specific classes. Like tanks, they aren't designed to specifically fit in and be part of the genre but to serve a logistic purpose, make teaming more common.

I suppose this wouldn't have been such a big issue if Cryptic hadn't sworn up and down, left and right, that this game would never, ever have the pigeon holed classes of other games. Well, then again they said they wouldn't have dance emotes and dance clubs either so... Lame.

All that being said, we don't know much about these things so I can't give up hope yet. Cryptic has surprised me in the past, maybe they will here too. I sure hope so!