magicj

WhisperWitch's Video Guide To Telekinesis

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting.

Let me just say that I'm shocked that Earth/ came in second in dps with hasten post 32.

Also, did I miss it, or did you not use hotfeet on your fire/ controller for the test? It would seem that if you didn't, that would boost dps considerably.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hot Feet is being used in all the Fire tests. The toggle is located on the 2nd row in my power tray, 5th from the left.

Sounds good.

I put together a corrected version of the Ill/FF WarTroller.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(11), Dmg(11), Dmg(13), Hold(13)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(34), RechRdx(34), Empty(46)
Level 2: Spectral Wounds -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(7)
Level 4: Deceive -- Acc(A), Acc(5), Conf(40), RechRdx(40)
Level 6: Aid Other -- Heal(A), Heal(40)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(9), RechRdx(9)
Level 10: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 12: Deflection Shield -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(15), DefBuff(15)
Level 14: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 16: Aid Self -- RechRdx(A), Heal(17), RechRdx(17), Heal(29), RechRdx(29), Heal(31)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- Acc(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(23), Dmg(23), Dmg(25)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21), Empty(46)
Level 22: Dispersion Bubble -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(25), DefBuff(27), DefBuff(27)
Level 24: Super Speed -- Run(A)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Acc(A), Acc(31), RechRdx(39), RechRdx(39), RechRdx(39)
Level 28: Insulation Shield -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(37), DefBuff(37)
Level 30: Provoke -- Acc(A), Acc(31), RechRdx(36), Taunt(36), RechRdx(36), Taunt(37)
Level 32: Phantasm -- Acc(A), Acc(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(34)
Level 35: Group Invisibility -- DefBuff(A), RechRdx(43)
Level 38: Force Bubble -- RechRdx(A)
Level 41: Fissure -- Acc(A), Acc(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(43), EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Seismic Smash -- Acc(A), Acc(45), Dmg(45), Dmg(45), Dmg(46)
Level 47: Earth's Embrace -- RechRdx(A), Heal(48), RechRdx(48), Heal(48), RechRdx(50), Heal(50)
Level 49: Rock Armor -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment

WhisperWitch's Guide To Controller Primaries Damage Vs 1 Target

WhisperWitch's Guide to Controller Primaries Damage Vs A Single Target

Introduction
This guide provides hard numbers for the damage capabilities of all Controller primaries vs a single target. No secondaries or epics powers are used. Hasten is used in half the tests and identical tests are run without Hasten. These tests establish baseline performance from the primary that can then be modified based upon secondary and tertiary effects.

The original thread that produced what became this guide has been saved by the Devs here.

Thanks
I'd like to thank everyone who reviewed this guide and offered suggestions and encouragement. Special thanks goes to Ishtar, Zappalina, Grimlek, UnicyclePeon, Geldon, Austerity, Weatherby_Goode, Frosticus, Riverdusk, ByteBait, Negate, Chaos_String, LordnMaster, Ehina, EvilRyu, Local_Man, Obitus, BlackSly, and General_Masters, all of whom made suggestions or comments that helped make this guide much better than it would have otherwise been.

Contents
Testing Methodology
What's Not Covered By These Tests
Results
Comments On Results
Supporting Media

Testing Methodology
The tests were standardize so that the results of each Controller could be meaningfully compared and were transparent so that others may repeat the tests if they wish. Each test was recorded to video and posted to YouTube so that every step taken is known.

Testing was done for two level grades, "Pre-32" and "Level 32" using Ouroboros flashback missions. The missions were set to the Invincible difficulty level.

The "Pre-32" tests were done using the level 29 story arc "A Madman's Council" fighting the boss Archon Salvatore. The "Level 32" tests were done using the level 34 story arc "The Rise of the Vampyri" fighting the boss Archon Zane. Both bosses are Penumbra Cor Leonis villains, which were chosen because they do not have Resistance to any damage type.

All Controllers were at least level 35 so that the level 32 powers could be fully slotted.

Each of the Controller's powers used was 2 slotted for Accuracy and 3 slotted for Damage. The sole exception being Illusion's Phantom Army, where the customary 3 slots for Recharge where given, allowing only 2 slots for Damage. Single Origin Enhancements were used in all cases.

If pets were used in the test, they were summoned before the fight started. The exception to this was Illusion's Phantom Army, where it is customary to summon them as the fight begins, and Plant where two tests were made, one with the pet already out and one with the pet recast into melee range during the fight.

Illusion was tested twice within each test, once with Phantom Army, once without. This is because Phantom Army is not a permanent pet in most Illusion builds. Gravity was also tested twice within each test, once using Propel in the attack chain, and once without. This is because the use of Propel in the attack chain was somewhat controversial before these tests were done.

With all this in place, the tests consisted simply of timing how long it took each Controller to defeat the boss.

What's Not Covered By These Tests
These tests do not cover the following:
<ul type="square">[*] The effects of secondaries, power pools (except Hasten), Epics, or Vet powers.[*] The speed at which a given Controller set can kill groups.[*] The effect of Confuse powers on kill times.[*] The effect of IOs and IO bonuses.[*] Personal playstyle.[/list]Results
Test results are presented in the video Controller Primary Kill Times and DPS Vs Single Target Summary and reproduced below.

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Pre-32 Times, No Hasten
Illusion w/PA_______________56s
Mind________________________59s
Gravity w/Propel____________1:06s
Fire________________________1:13s
Plant_______________________1:13s
Earth_______________________1:39s
Gravity w/out Propel________1:40s
Ice_________________________1:49s
Illusion w/out PA___________2:44s

Pre 32 Times, With Hasten
Mind________________________46s
Illusion w/PA_______________47s
Gravity w/Propel____________58s
Gravity w/out Propel________1:04s
Fire________________________1:04s
Plant_______________________1:10s
Ice_________________________1:22s
Earth_______________________1:32s
Illusion w/out PA___________1:33s

32 Times, No Hasten
Fire________________________34s
Gravity w/Propel____________46s
Plant w/Pet Recast__________48s
Illusion w/PA_______________49s
Earth_______________________49s
Gravity w/out Propel________55s
Ice_________________________58s
Plant_______________________1:00s
Mind________________________1:13s
Illusion w/out PA___________1:42s

32 Times, With Hasten
Fire________________________30s
Earth_______________________38s
Gravity w/Propel____________44s
Illusion w/PA_______________45s
Mind________________________46s
Ice_________________________47s
Plant w/Pet Recast__________47s
Gravity w/out Propel________1:00
Illusion w/out PA___________1:06s
Plant_______________________1:13s

Pre-32 DPS, No Hasten
Illusion w/PA_______________24.73 DPS
Mind________________________23.47 DPS
Gravity w/Propel____________20.98 DPS
Fire________________________18.97 DPS
Plant_______________________18.97 DPS
Earth_______________________13.99 DPS
Gravity w/out Propel________13.85 DPS
Ice_________________________12.71 DPS
Illusion w/out PA____________8.45 DPS

Pre-32 DPS, With Hasten
Mind________________________30.11 DPS
Illusion w/PA_______________29.47 DPS
Gravity w/Propel____________23.88 DPS
Fire________________________21.64 DPS
Gravity w/out Propel________21.64 DPS
Plant_______________________19.79 DPS
Ice_________________________16.89 DPS
Earth_______________________15.05 DPS
Illusion w/out PA___________14.89 DPS

32 DPS, No Hasten
Fire________________________51.62 DPS
Gravity w/Propel____________38.15 DPS
Plant w/Pet Recast__________36.56 DPS
Earth_______________________35.82 DPS
Illusion w/PA_______________35.82 DPS
Gravity w/out Propel________31.91 DPS
Ice_________________________30.26 DPS
Plant_______________________29.25 DPS
Mind________________________24.04 DPS
Illusion w/out PA___________17.21 DPS

32 DPS, With Hasten
Fire________________________58.50 DPS
Earth_______________________46.18 DPS
Gravity w/Propel____________39.89 DPS
Illusion w/PA_______________39.00 DPS
Mind________________________38.15 DPS
Ice_________________________37.34 DPS
Plant w/Pet Recast__________37.34 DPS
Gravity w/out Propel________29.25 DPS
Illusion w/out PA___________26.59 DPS
Plant_______________________24.04 DPS
</pre><hr />

Comments On Results
* Plant performs worse in the 32 Test with Hasten than in the 32 Test without Hasten. I believe this is because the Fly Trap only used its Immobilize attack in the Hasten test. The test was not redone because it was felt this could easily happen in normal combat. Re-summoning the Fly Trap in melee range will greatly increase its DPS.

* Gravity w/out Propel performs worse in the 32 Test with Hasten than in the 32 Test without Hasten. I believe this is because I was too far away from the baddie at the start of the fight. The test was not redone because it was felt this could easily happen in normal combat.

Supporting Media
Videos documenting each test as it was taken as well as showing the builds used for testing can be found here:

Damage Pre-32 Grav, Earth, Ice
Damage Pre-32 Grav, Earth, Ice With Hasten
Damage Level 32 Grav, Earth, Ice
Damage Level 32 Grav, Earth, Ice, With Hasten
Damage Pre-32 Fire, Illusion, Mind, Plant
Damage Pre-32 Fire, Illusion, Mind, Plant, With Hasten
Damage Level 32 Fire, Illusion, Mind, Plant
Damage Level 32 Fire, Illusion, Mind, and Plant With Hasten
Damage Level 32 Plant w/Pet Recast
Testing Builds for Grav, Earth, and Ice
Testing Builds for Fire, Illusion, Mind, and Plant

Just added these videos for Controller primaries single target damage testing.

Controller Primary Kill Times and DPS Vs Single Target Summary

For those interested in the gory details:

Damage Pre-32 Grav, Earth, Ice
Damage Pre-32 Grav, Earth, Ice With Hasten
Damage Level 32 Grav, Earth, Ice
Damage Level 32 Grav, Earth, Ice, With Hasten
Damage Pre-32 Fire, Illusion, Mind, Plant
Damage Pre-32 Fire, Illusion, Mind, Plant, With Hasten
Damage Level 32 Fire, Illusion, Mind, Plant
Damage Level 32 Fire, Illusion, Mind, and Plant With Hasten
Damage Level 32 Plant w/Pet Recast
Testing Builds for Grav, Earth, and Ice
Testing Builds for Fire, Illusion, Mind, and Plant

[ QUOTE ]
since it is well known that Ill/Rad is (arguably) supreme against higher-order targets such as EB/AVs

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think this argument is worth as much as it sounds. Ill/Rad works well vs AVs because PA grabs aggro and is unkillable and Rad does just enough debuffing to let the troller whittle down the AV. Ill/Rad kills AVs, but it kills them slowly.

Someone posts their Ill/Rad soloed Lusca in four hours and everyone remembers Ill/Rad soloed Lusca. No one remembers it took four hours to do it.

[ QUOTE ]
plant and grav w/ propel seem to get faster w/o hasten, that is wierd and might be worth looking at why.

[/ QUOTE ]
In both cases I think it was because of the pet. With Grav, I think I was a bit too far away for Singy to attack at the beginning of the fight. With Plant, it's just the dumb Fly Trap acting up.

[ QUOTE ]
Can you post once more ranking all of the sets for each catagory?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure.

Pre-32 Times, No Hasten
---------------------------
Illusion w/PA_______________56s
Mind______________________59s
Gravity w/Propel____________1:06s
Fire_______________________1:13s
Plant______________________1:13s
Earth______________________1:39s
Gravity w/out Propel_________1:40s
Ice_______________________1:49s
Illusion w/out PA____________2:44s

Pre 32 Times, With Hasten
------------------------------
Mind______________________46s
Illusion w/PA_______________47s
Gravity w/Propel____________58s
Gravity w/out Propel_________1:04s
Fire_______________________1:04s
Plant______________________1:10s
Ice_______________________1:22s
Earth_____________________1:32s
Illusion w/out PA____________1:33s

32 Times, No Hasten
-----------------------
Fire_______________________34s
Gravity w/Propel____________46s
Illusion w/PA_______________49s
Earth_____________________49s
Gravity w/out Propel_________55s
Ice_______________________58s
Mind______________________1:13s
Illusion w/out PA____________1:42s

32 Times, With Hasten
--------------------------
Fire_______________________30s
Earth______________________38s
Gravity w/Propel____________44s
Illusion w/PA_______________45s
Mind______________________46s
Ice_______________________47s
Gravity w/out Propel_________1:00
Illusion w/out PA____________1:06s
Plant______________________1:13s

Pre-32 DPS, No Hasten
--------------------------
Illusion w/PA_______________24.73 DPS
Mind______________________23.47 DPS
Gravity w/Propel____________20.98 DPS
Fire______________________18.97 DPS
Plant_____________________18.97 DPS
Earth_____________________13.99 DPS
Gravity w/out Propel________13.85 DPS
Ice_______________________12.71 DPS
Illusion w/out PA____________8.45 DPS

Pre-32 DPS, With Hasten
----------------------------
Mind______________________30.11 DPS
Illusion w/PA_______________29.47 DPS
Gravity w/Propel____________23.88 DPS
Fire_______________________21.64 DPS
Plant______________________19.79 DPS
Ice_______________________16.89 DPS
Earth_____________________15.05 DPS
Illusion w/out PA____________14.89 DPS

32 DPS, No Hasten
---------------------
Fire_______________________51.62 DPS
Gravity w/Propel____________38.15 DPS
Earth_____________________35.82 DPS
Illusion w/PA_______________35.82 DPS
Gravity w/out Propel_________31.91 DPS
Ice_______________________30.26 DPS
Plant______________________29.25 DPS
Mind______________________24.04 DPS
Illusion w/out PA____________17.21 DPS

32 DPS, With Hasten
-----------------------
Fire_______________________58.50 DPS
Earth______________________46.18 DPS
Gravity w/Propel____________39.89 DPS
Illusion w/PA_______________39.00 DPS
Mind______________________38.15 DPS
Ice_______________________37.34 DPS
Gravity w/out Propel_________29.25 DPS
Illusion w/out PA____________26.59 DPS
Plant______________________24.04 DPS

Looks good.

And no, leaving Provoke out in the sample Illusion WarTroller I posted was an accident.

And finally, here's a video showing the Time and DPS values for all the sets.

The results of the Fire, Illusion, Mind, and Plant tests are up.

Damage Pre 32, Fire, Illusion, Mind, and Plant
Damage Pre 32, Fire, Illusion, Mind, and Plant With Hasten
Damage 32, Fire, Illusion, Mind, Plant
Damage 32 Fire, Illusion, Mind, Plant With Hasten
Fire, Illusion, Mind, Plant Builds

Summary of Results:

Damage Pre 32
Illusion w/PA_________56s
Mind________________59s
Fire_________________1:13s
Plant________________1:13s
Illusion w/out PA______2:44s

Pre 32 With Hasten
Mind________________46s
Illusion w/PA_________47s
Fire________________1:04s
Plant_______________1:10s
Illusion w/out PA_____1:33s

32
Fire________________34s
Illusion w/PA________49s
Plant_______________1:00s
Mind_______________1:13s
Illusion w/out PA_____1:42s

32 With Hasten
Fire________________30s
Illusion w/PA________45s
Mind_______________46s
Illusion w/out PA_____1:06s
Plant_______________1:13s

[ QUOTE ]
All I can say is I am very shocked at mind control more than anything else. Just exactly how did you have each of the attacks you used slotted?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll be posting the builds along with new standardized tests shortly.

[ QUOTE ]
Jack's love of melee should be providing an edge.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. Jack's love of melee gets him killed. He's just not built to handle melee. Ice performed so badly the first time I tested it with Jack, with Jack getting killed almost instantly, that I actually gave the set a Mulligan.

And unlike Fire, Ice has only one pet. Once Jack is dead, you're left trying to kill things with the other Ice powers, which is kind of like trying to kill someone with a fly swatter.

Don't know what to say about Jack other than a pet that wimpy shouldn't be getting into melee. Seems broken to me. Either make him tougher with some natural +Defense, or put him back at range and buff his range attacks.

[ QUOTE ]
Probably because Propel sucks that hard. If you can't make a full attack chain (ie the w/o Hasten test) it can give Grav a slight edge, but once you can make a chain out of Crush, Lift, and GD, Propel actually lowers your DPS.


[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure about that. Grav w/Propel out-performed Grav w/out Propel in every test. But regardless, that doesn't really explain why the four single target attacks worked better _without_ Hasten for the level 32 tests. Propel was used in both tests. The only reason I can see is I was too far away for Singy to attack at the beginning of the Hasten test.

Thanks for catching the mistake in the summary. I edited the original post to reflect the correct numbers.

I tried to only use the AoEs as filler in the chains or to get the boss Contained earlier for better damage/more safety. Seems reasonable to me. For the same reason, I ran Arctic Air on one of the Ice tests in a futile attempt to keep Jack alive.

After considering the recent comments by Frosticus, I decided to make the villains I was fighting tougher and to include full suite of tests with Hasten. These new videos are set to Invincible and include results with and without Hasten.

I was really surprised how big of a difference these two changes made in the results.

Here's the links to the new videos. The old Grav, Earth, and Ice videos have been taken down.

Damage Pre 32 Grav, Earth, Ice
Damage Pre 32 Grav, Earth, Ice With Hasten
Damage Level 32 Grav, Earth, Ice
Damage Level 32 Grav, Earth, Ice With Hasten
Grav, Earth, Ice Builds

Summary:
Pre-32, No Hasten
Grav w/Propel________1:06s
Earth_______________1:39s
Grav w/out Propel_____1:40s
Ice_________________1:49s


Pre-32 With Hasten
Grav w/Propel________58s
Grav w/out Propel_____1:04s
Ice_________________1:22
Earth_______________1:32s

Level 32 Without Hasten
Grav w/Propel________46s
Earth_______________49s
Grav w/out Propel_____55s
Ice_________________58s

Level 32 With Hasten
Earth_______________38s
Grav w/Propel________44s
Ice_________________47s
Grav w/out Propel____1:00s

I don't know why Grav did worse with Hasten than without for the level 32 test without Propel. I'm assuming Singy was out of range for part of the test.

I've put together the Level 32 Damage Test for Grav, Earth, and Ice . This is not a draft, it's the final release unless mistakes are found.

Summary of results:
Ice: 15s
Earth: 15s
Grav w/Propel: 17s
Grav w/out Propel: 22s

Notes:
* Screen shots of all builds will be published in a separate video
* No powers outside the primary are used to improve damage, including Hasten.
* Tests for the other sets are coming.
* Once all the new tests are up, the old Mind, Fire, Plant, and Illusion tests will be taken down.

[ QUOTE ]
sounds good. Just to point out though you may want to avoid using the recharge intensive pet sets. As I said earlier afaik they aren't enhancing acc or dam, which was clear in your early vids with the imps doing far less damage than they normally do.

[/ QUOTE ]
With these new tests I'm using only SOs, so I can avoid that kind of mistake.

[ QUOTE ]
If it isn't too much trouble do you want to run it with and without hasten? In particular I'm wondering if grav would be faster w/o propel w/ hasten running.

[/ QUOTE ]
Um, I'll do one for Grav pre 32 for you as a temp video, but we're getting a lot of tests here. Since Hasten affects only your attacks, not the pets' attacks, personal attacks w/Hasten vs personal attacks w/out Hasten is something people can figure out on their own.

[ QUOTE ]
32 as in default 1 slot in the pet 32? or 32 as in post 32 fully slotted primary?

[/ QUOTE ]
All the toons will be at least level 35, allowing the powers used in the level 32 test to be fully slotted.

Thanks Weatherby.

I've put together the Pre-32 Damage Test for Grav, Earth, and Ice. This is not a draft, it's the final release unless mistakes are found.

Summary of results:
Grav w/Propel: 21s
Grav w/out Propel: 24s
Ice: 34s
Earth: 35s

Notes:
* Screen shots of all builds will be published in a separate video
* No powers outside the primary are used to improve damage, including Hasten.
* Level 32 tests for Grav, Earth, and Ice, as well as all tests for the other sets, are coming.
* Once all the new tests are up, the old Mind, Fire, Plant, and Illusion tests will be taken down.

I'll look for a mish with thse council. In the meantime, would be be kind enough to post that actual resistance numbers for the Freakshow.

Edit:
Found an arc with a Penumbra Cor Leonis in the 1st mish. Will redo the testing using that.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poor ice

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure that's a fair test for ice considering freak tanks have 30% cold resistance. Cold being rarely resisted is one of ice's few advantages, so kind of a reverse cherry picking there.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's good to know and I'll make a note of that in the final video, along with an estimated time with the Resistance subtracted out.

Do Freaks have any other Defense or Resistance I should know about? I can't pull up the Resistance chart on the computer I'm on right now.

I just put up a draft of the new test. This test uses an Ice troller to defeat a freak boss in the Freakolympics arc. This is a rough cut only, meant primarily to get feedback.

You can find the video here: Ice Damage Pre 32.

Thanks everyone for the kind words and advice. I hope to start the new tests tonight.

Just to keep a running track of the suggestions so far:

* Start with the primary pets summoned
* No Spooky on the Illusion controller
* Use Ouro missions
* For Illusion, try Blind - SW - SW - Blind
* Include Grav, Ice, and Earth
* Start all tests when Hasten starts
* Make sure Containment is set up right away
* Use standard slotting for all builds (I'll go with SOs)

I think all of these things are doable. Will wait a little longer for additional suggestions before starting.