hedgehog_NA

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Well they've gone and done it now. Today's patch put a limit on the number of tickets you can get as per which map your are playing. That's right, we now have a ticket limit per mish. A small [censored] ticket limit. So all your challenging mish's are worthless and rewards dismal!! NO SALVAGE DROPS, NO RECIPE DROPS, NO KILLS COUNTING FOR BADGES and now TINY TICKET Rewards. Why even do AE mish's now??? Back to being poor [censored] bastards not being able to aford io's unles you buy inf from outside sources. Without tickets it's even harder to get good recipes and we are AGAIN forced to pay [censored] prices for good recipe's on the black market. I have a tough arc and damnit I want my damn ticket rewards back!!! Always punishing people for making good toons cause it "might" be exploited. Tired of the [censored] farmers killing the game. Why the hell make exceptional toons now if you can't benifit... Not everyone farms damnit!!!!!!

You devs are butt wipes man~!!!!!! You have put such a small ticket limit on mish's now I hate you all of you.

kk I will calm. down.. *taking deep breathes..*

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Cry me a river. Stop playing AE for rewards. Play AE because its fun, living, changing, evolving content. A breath of fresh air in a world of persistent world grinding. AE is an ideal concept that has been defiled by the materialistic exp gorging and mad ticket grabbing frenzies of people like you.
If you hadn't tried to break the system for your own selfish purposes, people would still be getting normal rewards for my stories, instead of the deflated rewards that they get now. Luckily, the stories are so entertaining, that nobody else seems to notice the difference.

Please evolve.
Your melancholy Messiah, Captain-Cosmic, Virtue

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I agree... Devs, please remove all xp from MA. Make it so only the pure and worthy use it!

(I would add virgin, but there are too many of them running around the game as it is)

remember the day when if you killed a minion you got x-xp y-inf andz-drops? if you killed 200 minions you got 200*x 200*y and 200*z. Too bad that had to change.

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OchoCinco?

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only if he cant swim

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Aww. Why no more chicken tug?

*looks up at the previous poster* I guess it's to avoid situations involving that guy and an innocent fowl?

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someone cried fowl..

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Was exp and inf given back to the rikti summoned by the comm officer, or are they now minions who summon a bunch of friends you have no reason to fight? After all, risk vs reward, right? Where's the reward for fighting something that has no reward?

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I bet ya the summoned minions won't give squat. So nobody will want to fight the comm officers, just like nobody wants to fight the family since the xp nerf.

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These devs seem to be good with nerfs, lousy when making things like bases work.

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So how come, when I'm making the RL analogies, I'm wrong, but when you resort to that most tired and cliched of internet appeals, argumentum ad nazium, it's true and/or funny?

All I did was remark on the speed with which you resorted to it.

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Is that what happened ? My old eyes must be getting worse by the minute. What I saw was someone trying to shutdown a line of discussion by attaching a label to it. Which was exactly one of the tactics used by the propaganda minister.

So I wasn't making a funny just observing that you had become one

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True..And the man was a master at what he did. understanding how someone like this works is an important way of preventing it from happening again. Like reading Niccolo Machiavelli. Kind of psychotic but he understood human nature and could manipulate it.

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Careful AF, the obvious isn't welcome here.

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the one you are trying to get coherency out of needs professional help. She is the person that goes to a football game and is offended by people cheering.

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In fact. My biggest concern is actually with the people who claim the market was ruined.

How on earth is low prices the market ruined. Do they not understand basic economics of supply and demand?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflati...tionary_spiral

Anyone who has even a "basic" understanding of Deflation knows that it actually HURTS the "have nots" and benefits the "haves."

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this implies the have nots have no way of becoming the haves.

Hint: it costs the same amount of tickets for a farmer to roll for a recipe as it does joe q newbie who just either did a farm or did a couple arcs with friends. Chances are he might get one of the chase recipes. chances are said recipe could translate into the money to buy what he needs.

Deflation only hurts the have nots supposing they have no way of generating cash at all, which in coH is so vastly false that anyone who thinks it is incorrect, wrong, and deluded.

In a market like COH, the only way to be a completely have not is to be too lazy to make any sort of effort.

also. if you honestly think nobody is doing TFs and mothership/hami, you either have no global channels, no friends, and no clue about your server, or you play on Freedom.

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wow...something we agree on 100%. I dont even bother to feed money to my lowbies for the most part...just sell the 2 lvl 1 to's they give you and go from there

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Fine, I'll take out the comparison to other/RL actions entirely.

Are you seriously claiming that the responsible way to bring a bug to the devs' attention is not to file an official bug report and then leave it alone, but to file no bug report and massively exploit it so that they will notice it in their datamining?

If it is a bug, then you shouldn't profit from it. Thus my suggestion to remove the ill-gotten 50s.

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what it comes down to, is the devs reaction is the same either way. that simple. are you mad at the people with bughunter?

also, a changing the reward on a mob is not a bugfix. it is changing the reward. If they suddenly decided that freakbosses were giving too much xp, they would lower it. would that make the toons you have "ill gotten"?

There will be changes in the MA rewards, some of them to stop outliers(not bugs) and some just because the devs feel it should be changed. They are the devs, that is their prerogative.

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They made it apparent to the devs with exactly the same result as if they had filed a bug report.

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Not if they proceeded to exploit that bug to their advantage, over and over. Most responsible bug reporters don't do that.

That's like, oh, saying the bank should thank you and give you money for proving they were insecure by robbing them.

Now, maybe if the Devs awarded Bug Hunter and deleted all the new 50s... that might be fair.

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you completely missed the point. When the devs find a mob that gives out of line rewards, wether through a bug report or data mining, they do the same thing. they remove it till they can fix the problem. Do you have a problem with bug reporters? because they are taking away mobs from you also.

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I have worked 15 toons to 50 by doing content, forming teams and doing content. So I know what a load of BS you are pushing here.

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One again, you call me names instead of respond to anything I'm actually say.

You're not worth my time, young man. Go back to the kiddie table and let the grownups talk.

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I didnt repond to your points because they are made up bs.

pot meet kettle, welcome to ignore.

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The sole and complete issue I have with farmers and those who make farm maps, is that they are the cause for having certain enemies, sometimes entire enemy groups, no longer being available in MA because of their abusing them for farming purposes. This directly impacts me as an MA author in that I can no longer use content because of those people.

They effectively have stolen part of the game from me that I used to have access to, but now do not. And yes, I DID have access to it. Since MA's launch, a large number of mobs have been removed from MA and I fear even more coming soon. The attitude of "farming doesn't hurt anyone else" is completely bogus when it comes to the MA. If you farm in this manner, such that it causes the devs to punish us all for your actions, then you ARE harming everyone else. Continuing to deny it will just prove that you don't care if you hurt others or not.

If your actions don't impact me, I don't care what you do, but as soon as I am losing access to parts of the game I once had because of you, well now we have an issue.

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If arcana had reported to the devs that certain enemies were giving 2x rewards but were not yet being farmed, would you be mad at her because the devs removed them till they were fixed? Farmers made the "exploit" apparent to the devs, they did not write it or create it. They made it apparent to the devs with exactly the same result as if they had filed a bug report. Do you get mad at holders of BUGHUNTER?

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Your contribution to this thread was invaluable, thank you for participating.

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You're very welcome. I figure it like this: why should the pro-farming side of the aisle be the only ones with childish buttheads making their arguments?



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Well, if you are too lazy or stupid to form a team, what do you expect. All the time you see 10 people LFT LFT. two of them actually forming one would fix the whole problem. But that would take work.

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Aheh. Yeah. I'm sure. Ignoring the part where the people I invite to the team I'm trying to form jump ship the femtosecond they find out we're not going to farm AE rubbish, obviously I'm just lazy and stupid.

Look... if this is the best you can do, please go back to the kiddie table and let the grown-ups talk, okay?



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I thought that was exactly the point of this thread. Raising the issue to the devs and other players.

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No, the point of this thread was for people who don't like farming to raise the issue, and for people who love farming to make fun of and dismiss the arguments of the people who dislike it. There's no debate here.

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I have worked 15 toons to 50 by doing content, forming teams and doing content. So I know what a load of BS you are pushing here.

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How ironic that NCSoft puts out its new box, and related advertising, to pull in new players when the game they're being introduced to is a caricature of what it was meant to be.

Regular teaming is dead. In an hour in Virtue AP I saw one LFT that wasn't AE/Farm related, and I'm betting there were zero takers for that. Is this really what anyone wants new players to see?

"Here's this cool superhero MMO. What you do is you create a character, then you go into this building in the start zone and kick the crap out of one kind of enemy. Over and over and over again. Within a day or two you'll have a level 50 character. Warning: if you DO decide to play some real missions you'll find progression unbelievably slow in comparison, so you probably won't want to do that. If you do you'd better get used to soloing."

More importantly, will they stick around if their source of instant gratification is taken away from them? Will they stick around if it isn't?

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read that as..."oh! I stood around atlas for an hour! nobody asked me on broadcast to form a team.....even if I was running a lvl 45 scrapper"

Meanwhile in PI, teams are forming all over the place because they !GASP! put on their LFt flag and started forming a team instead of being a lazy [censored] and letting someone else do the work.

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Read as: I LIKE FARMING BECAUSE I CAN'T GET TO 50 IF I HAVE TO ACTUALLY EARN IT, SO DON'T TAKE MY TOY AWAY! WAAAAAH!

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Well, if you are too lazy or stupid to form a team, what do you expect. All the time you see 10 people LFT LFT. two of them actually forming one would fix the whole problem. But that would take work.

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Personally, I think how appalled the older bunch of supers are at the conduct of the younger ones in KINGDOM COME is a better analogy. Seeing that this game was, at some point, supposed to be about superheroes (and villains), not about who has the bigger stable of "50 toons."

(And if you don't even know what KINGDOM COME is - though I think THE NEW FRONTIER is better - why are you playing this game?)

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Off topic, but I am assuming kingdom come is a comic storyline. If this helps your frame of reference, I haven't bought a comic since the infinity guantlet was split up by Adam Warlock. Now, that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy comics, but it does mean that I no longer activly pursue them. As far as why I play this game, because I like playing MMO's. I have accounts in several, but this is where the majority of my time is. Mainly because I do have an ancient background in comic books. That doesn't change the fact that to me, this is nothing more than a action adventure game. No where have I read that roleplaying or character emersion is required any more than playing Halo.

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If it makes you feel better, I owned a comic store and I have no idea where she came up with this stuff. I thenk she probably needs to up the medication though.

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I don't. I just find the irony and/or stupidity of complaining that a part of the game is no longer worth running, because it was ruthlessly and repeatedly exploited over months until the devs made it so it would not be, to be just... beyond the pale.

I have run Katie Hannon's TF once. For the experience, and I do not mean the xp (though they were nice). We did not use trickery to speed through it; this was before you lot figured out how to drain out all the fun and turn it into a grinding mill.

If Katie is broken and not worth doing now, guess what: YOU BROKE IT. Just like (I believe) you may break the MA, and possibly other parts of the game too.

When the Devs set up a fence, some people immediately start trying to figure out ways to climb over it, or dig under it, or go around it, or smash it down with a monster truck. Some people, however, respect the fence and take it not as a challenge but as a sign that they don't want us going there, period. Amazing!

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Trickery? What have you been smoking? You defeat mary 10 times. The speed of those defeats is determined by the devs. They spawn with no time in between. You have no choice but to begin the next round. If the devs wanted it to take longer, they could add a 2 min delay between spawns. There are 18 min added right there. But the devs would rather have a release cosisting of reward management rather than tf updates. That was their choice.

As for the talk on broadcast. Dont play MMO's if you dont like having other people in your little world. I dont like costume contests. Massive lag fests. Get rid of them, not to mention some guy that spams CC IN 5 MIN for half an hour, in 6 different zones.

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The one thing you blankers seem to forget is that blanking normal content is something that is basically private in nature. (This is true to a certain extent when playing a MA blank mission, as long as you aren't spamming messages for blank teams)

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Putting a blanking mission on the MA system puts your behavior on public display. Sort of like running on field during a Yankees/Red Sox game wearing nothing but your Nikes.


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What may be acceptable behavior in the privacy of your home is not acceptable in other settings

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Amazing how general that is. I can just as easily substitute roleplaying in there. It even makes better sense

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It does? Because roleplayers are not only constantly spamming broadcast, but doing stuff that's even more invasive to other people? I wasn't aware that they even did part 1, but I'm all ears about part 2.

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I have had rpers rudely tell me to defeat evil some other place than their sacred hottubs in fault line. I dont want to hear your bs in bcast about who has dissed you. yes, I have been annoyed by rpers. There are good RP folks and bad..just like any other group of people.

My first 50 was a energy/fire blaster. I couldnt have picked worse if I had tried. But I brought her to 50. 14 50's later I have learned a few tricks. That newb he was commenting on...farmers must have confiscated breakout. no vet badges could also mean a 2nd or 3rd account. Someone explained to me the values of health and stamina.I had no intentioon of using them until that time. Im glad I wasnt around mr judgement there....I would have gone back to EQ2.

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read that as..."oh! I stood around atlas for an hour! nobody asked me on broadcast to form a team.....even if I was running a lvl 45 scrapper"

Meanwhile in PI, teams are forming all over the place because they !GASP! put on their LFt flag and started forming a team instead of being a lazy [censored] and letting someone else do the work.

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Well, no.

I was level 1 through to level 4. I wasn't particularly looking for team myself - just wandering around hitting hellions and watching the broadcast spam.

Pre-I14 I would have probably had one or two random invites - which I might or might not have accepted depending on my mood - but I'd definately have seen more than a single solitary attempt by someone to form a sewer team.

Let's not kid ourselves that there are as many non-AE teaming opportunities out there for the casual/new player as there were pre-I14. We both know that isn't true.

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Some people complain if they get no random invites...some complain that they are swamped. Maybe a majority wants to farm? seems to be that way.

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Its amazing the budding shakespears in the crowd always seem to feel that any 1 stars come from "dirty farmers" and not because their prose is dog crap. Just because you like to sing in the shower doesnt make you american idol material....on the other hand, after hearing some of those..maybe it does

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Umm, reading comprehension class?


There are farmers that have admitted to this, and I have caught missions with 5-star ratings and 100+ votes suddenly getting a large number of votes that pushed it to 4-star.


BTW, I have one arc. It's currently 4-star and never had anything lower than a 3. (And I use a global handle that is different from my forum handle, so I don't have to worry about being rating griefed by forum trolls.)

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and I have seen rp drama queens go looking for farm maps to 1 star and report. What is the difference? And no, you arent worth the time it would take to hunt down your arc.

besides, I didnt even reply to you....touch a sore spot maybe?

Its amazing the budding shakespears in the crowd always seem to feel that any 1 stars come from "dirty farmers" and not because their prose is dog crap. Just because you like to sing in the shower doesnt make you american idol material....on the other hand, after hearing some of those..maybe it does

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How ironic that NCSoft puts out its new box, and related advertising, to pull in new players when the game they're being introduced to is a caricature of what it was meant to be.

Regular teaming is dead. In an hour in Virtue AP I saw one LFT that wasn't AE/Farm related, and I'm betting there were zero takers for that. Is this really what anyone wants new players to see?

"Here's this cool superhero MMO. What you do is you create a character, then you go into this building in the start zone and kick the crap out of one kind of enemy. Over and over and over again. Within a day or two you'll have a level 50 character. Warning: if you DO decide to play some real missions you'll find progression unbelievably slow in comparison, so you probably won't want to do that. If you do you'd better get used to soloing."

More importantly, will they stick around if their source of instant gratification is taken away from them? Will they stick around if it isn't?

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read that as..."oh! I stood around atlas for an hour! nobody asked me on broadcast to form a team.....even if I was running a lvl 45 scrapper"

Meanwhile in PI, teams are forming all over the place because they !GASP! put on their LFt flag and started forming a team instead of being a lazy [censored] and letting someone else do the work.

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The thing that really saddened me was the range of the new TF. Villains have been crying out for a TF either 30-35 where they have none or 40-45 where they now only have the ITF.

Could this not have been set up villain side, as a 40-50 that sets at 50 (heroes have Sara Moore with that range).

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Let the vill's have sara moore ha ha ha ha cough cough.

looking at the interviews, there will be a hero tf and a villain sf? where is the problem there? Did they specify a level somewhere I missed?

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i would strongly support the GMs severely reducing the amount of exp/prestige/tickets on all BUT Developers choice AE arcs. City of Farmers, with no one playing the actual game, is sadly what we have become....

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that is the 1 sure way to gut the MA. There are not enough people willing to wade through your pitiful rp arcs. You are not the great author you think you are. I see the people that get their sg to rate their mission all 5 star and then get a couple of 1 stars and complain. Maybe your stuff really is crap.

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You can bet than the MA is gonna be gut of rewards before long. Getting 7000 Tickets ( aka 2 Gold Rolls aka 2 Pool C recipes ) in less than 15 minutes of farming is simply broken.

Rewards are not balanced with the rest of the game. Any reason why MA should be more rewarding over time than any Task Forces or contact story arcs?

And about the XPs. Exploits will get fixed obviously. You really think it is normal that if i blow NPC explosives that wipe all a spawn i get full reward? It simply alot of little things like that, devs were not aware of or could not fix right away. But they will.

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Honestly I cant see why they'd fix tickets. they already fixed em once because a lot of people were angry that rewards in the MA got progressively more and more worthless as team size increased.

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If that is the case then, maybe devs should triple TF and story arc Merit rewards.

Mind explain why doing a Katie TF is not granting one single pool C recipe roll for beating 10 AV and doing more than 1 mission while doing 1 single AE farm gives about 2 pool C reward rolls, and that in less than 30 minutes of play?

Broken. It is broken.

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The reason for this was the same reason EM was nerfed. Social engineering. Too many people were doing x. X isnt necessarily bad, but we want them to do y and z. So we will punish x and make it not worth as much. Instead of content, I13 gave us reward management. Nothing new to do, but they spend loads of time changing what we get for doing it. If they butcher MA in the name of reward management, they had better have a lot of kick [censored] content to push out there, because they wont have a lot to show for over a year of development.

I understand they must make changes to manage things. Contrary to what some posters here say, making a 50 in 2 days is very far from the norm. The same thing was possible under preI14, but very rare. Most people like to sleep and take a bio break sometime in a 48 hour period. But a good pl'er could do it. But it is a little too easy now. My hope is that the devs decide to trim, not hack. No chainsaw vasectomies.

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And tell me about Katie TF? How come that thing gives crap reward ( not even a pool C recipe ) while farming in AE over less time gives better reward?

Broken. It is broken.

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If I were to start on picking broken things in this game I would never know where to stop.

But on risk/reward first there has to be risk in the game. Currently thre isnt.

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Is too, I bruised my finger last week!!!


No really, what might not be risky to your purped out scrapper is extemely risky to my emp defender. If balance was that easy, there would be balance all over this game and PVP would be accepted by more than the 3 people that like it.

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The problem is there is no set rule about farming. There is a rule against exploits, and we all agree they should be removed once identified and verified. No matter where you set the bar, people like me will ride that line as hard and as fast as humanly possible.

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Technically, there is one actual rule about farming: customer support (GMs) are allowed to remove missions believed to be farming missions from the architect system. So if you want to be very technical, the rule is farming is allowed if it's undetected and unreported.


One other point about rules. Our office's internet feed currently operates under a soft-cap. We pay for a specific level of bandwidth, but the circuit isn't capped to that level: we can use more temporarily. There is no specific set rule on how much we can exceed that level by, or for how long. And we burst over it all the time. But so long as our bursts aren't "excessive" we aren't required to purchase higher levels of bandwidth.

If I were to tell our provider "look, you tell me what my limit is, and I will ride that level right up to the limit: don't give me any of this 'reasonable' crap" they'd be happy to oblige by setting a hard cap for me and me alone.


I sometimes feel the same should be done in this case: everyone that explicitly asks for a hard cap defined by the devs should get one applied to them and them alone. Everyone else that can deal with reasonable judgement-defined limits should operate under those instead. It would seem to me this explicitly falls under the general principle of givng players what they want, within the limits of the game design. The people that want hard limits get them. The people that are ok with soft limits gets those instead.

That certainly satisfies every game-balance design rule I can think of.

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Actually, the first two report pulls are a function of reports vs positive rankings and are automatically done by computerized system, not actual customer service. If you want customer service you have to wait for further offences after republishing the mission or petition them.

This is why people who write stories about some pumpkinhead revolt on a farm map name Carnage on the Farm or something have their mission pulled. Why? Not because someone actually checked and pulled it, but because an idiot searched the word farm and blindly reported everything that came up. Both sides have extremists and I hope they both get banned.

But If i have a mission I am comfortable with running, run it repeatedly for my tickets, and enjoy doing it, so be it. I could give 2 shakes for it's artistic merit. I had fun playing it. My favorite mision on the AE at the moment is nothing but hordes and hordes of lvl 50 zombie bosses coming at me like something from night of the living dead. I run it atleast 2x a day. Like I have said many times. Until there is a rule, guideline, or mission statement somewhere, I'll keep my play like i have it. Posi himself says the Dev's are in mixed sentiments about farming and limits and the system in place is the solution. Wallah, I am within my limits to use said system to meet my gaming desires.

Bottom line, if no exploits are being used, it isn't illegal. Just like it isn't wrong to use the ITF over and over to level, it isn't wrong to speed run TF for maximised merits, and it isn't wrong to circle certain areas of certain maps hunting mobs for badges.

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I can understand all the fun you have being swarmed by zombie bosses and getting alot of tickets for them. That however does not mean that what you are doing is "acceptable" from the game/dev point of view. How much reward are you gathering over time by doing such a mission? And what threat/challenge are you facing to gather such rewards? It is all about balance.

Even if it is not a pure code exploit that does not mean it is normal or acceptable that a player in MA can easily have access to several pool C ( Golden Rolls ) for minimal risk/effort while players doing other content in game that is harder or more time-consuming ( TFs ) get less reward. I call that broken.

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You are right. Everyone should be restricted down to the rewards that I can earn on my emp defender solo. That would be fair.