VoodooGirl
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:But isn't the same as "gating" content the some players are against with the F2P model?Originally Posted by Void_Huntress
If they were able to go a step further and subdivide some of the content/zone access to 'mission packs', and shift to a point system for grabbing mission packs, booster packs (or subsets thereof), I think it has the potential to expand their customer greatly even with the increased costs of having to maintain additional server capacity for the moochers. -
Quote:That what would be an F2P model that would work for you?Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No.
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Quote:Sometimes I think you're Stephen Hawking.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Hypothetically speaking, F2P could sometimes succeed and sometimes fail, if hypothetically speaking there existed more than one MMO on Earth, if there existed a planet called Earth. As we currently have 100% of all the MMO subscribers in the known universe, its difficult to project how F2P could affect our net playerbase size. However, I have seen calculations that suggest in certain Calabi-Yau contortions there exist vibrational manifolds in which the laws of physics would permit multiple MMOs existing simultaneously. In such manifolds I could conjecture the existence of an MMO which launched with a subscription model and later converted to a tiered model of VIP subscribers and ala carte subscriptionless players. When I extrapolate the binding energy of this manifold, solving for the rest mass of the electron involves a normalization factor whereby the developers of this game focus most of their attention on licensed fantasy role playing genres.
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I still think that an established MMO could make the transition to a very successful F2P business model - but the largest hurdle will be the existing playerbase and their attitude towards the change.
Provided the established MMO were to make the business model change, build it around the tastes and desires of their existing playerbase, without gating access to content to the free players but still make a subscription based account desirable to the existing and new playerbase, it could be a very brilliant, savvy move - especially if this is the business model of the future.
But, again, as previously stated, one of the larger hurdles would be the attitude of the existing playerbase and their perceptions of the business model. Other MMO's that have made this change did so early in their "life," and perhaps it was easier for the playerbase to adjust.
That being said, if we are speaking of City of Heroes and its life span - I think it is doing quite well for seven years. However is it netting more new accounts on a subscription based plan? Would F2P be disastrous for City of Heroes or would it open up the game to more people and in turn be more profitable with some system of microtransactions that don't "gate" content but enhance the gameplay... if that makes any sense?
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Quote:We have to speak in hypothetical terms of "other games."Originally Posted by Golden Girl
And how exactly can we discuss F2P without mentioning another game?
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Quote:Originally Posted by Freitag
I would like to remind everyone once again of Rule 8 of the City of Heroes forums, which states:
I encourage you all to continue the discussion here, but please ensure that in posting, you do not act in contravention to the above-mentioned rule (or any forum rule, ideally).
Thank you all for your contributions to the City of Heroes community!
~Freitag
...but... but... violating those rules are the only way I get messages in my inbox! -
Quote:So, for you, an F2P business model that has subscription levels (albeit all ungated in terms of access/content), but also has "microtransactions" that give additional benefits/bonuses/items of things that weren't previously included/available in the game (prior to F2P) would be something you feel the existing playerbase could get behind?Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
That's the F2P business model the MMO I was talking about has followed with differences to fit it's super hero theme.
They both have 3 types of accounts. Free, monthly subs, and lieftime subs, and they both offer microtransactions where players now pay for things they used to get included with their monthly sub befor egoing F2P. And both have gated content that free accounts have to buy to access. -
Quote:No, this part just says "Noted."Originally Posted by Dark One
Oh great. We get to keep the part that likes the nerfings. >.<
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Quote:So, suffice to say, an established MMO looking to transition to F2P would be wise to take a nod to what worked for Turbine and heed what didn't work for others?Originally Posted by Void_Huntress
That was actually the second title that Turbine transitioned to a hybrid F2P model. Both of their MMOs were subscription based at first, then they switched to 'you can have a subscription and get all the story content and most of the classes/races or you can be free and just buy what you want'. I personally think their tabletop inspired game weathered the transition better, because it's so focused on instances it's much easier to group content into purchasable packs.
Overall, switching to F2P, if done right, can boost an MMO rather than destroy it? -
Quote:No... only part of him... just... Posi...Originally Posted by Dark One
Wait, what? BAB is gone? Granted, his last post was over a year ago, but still. Shocking news even though it's relatively old.
Edit - Gah...didn't know Castle was gone either. Damn, is Positron the only one left? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
We didn't NEED the trams and ferries to be merged to get from 1-50...but they did it.
We don't NEED tons of costumes and emotes to get from 1-50...but we get those too.
We didn't NEED the whole Incarnate System since that begins after we hit 50...but the devs have devoted a whole issue to it.
I once read that some guy got to 50 using Brawl...he kept leveling but never trained. So we don't NEED most of what we have to get from 1-50...but it makes it more fun.
Base Editing makes the game more fun for Base Editors...- 1. It wasn't an intensive project as would upgrading/fixing/changing the Base Editing System.
- 2. People scream and complain when we don't get them.
- 3. People pissed and moaned for years that we didn't have an endgame system. That's what the Incarnate System was designed for.
- 4. I once read that if you wish upon a star your dreams do come true.
- *5. Base editing doesn't advance the game or give me XP. If I want to build a base I will simply play THE SIMS
The base editing system needs a complete overhaul. It's not a simple flick of the wrist fix.
Unless you are an experienced programmer, as I am not, I don't think either of us can really complain about how long it is taking to fix/upgrade. -
Quote:That's the only F2P business model we've seen for an MMO that's transitioned to a F2P (or at least that I'm aware of.)Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
An F2P game that doesn't have monthly sub fees has to make it's money solely off of microtransactions. That means that players will be getting nickeled and dimed for things that used to be included with their sub fee. It's that simple.
I'm sure there's alternate methods to sustaining a game on F2P that we haven't thought of, or considered, and it shouldn't be assumed that the way it was done (and as some would argued, failed) is the only way to do it. You're assuming that an established MMO would have to eliminate its monthly subscriptions entirely to go to F2P - what if it didn't?
Let me ask you, what do you think an established MMO would have to do to transition to "free to play" without nickel and dime'ing it's established player base? How would it have to make money off of having "monthly subs" and free accounts, without "gating" the advancement of the free accounts or limiting their experience of the game? -
Quote:Again, it depends on the F2P structure.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
While all those other things you mentioned are considered negatives by many people the biggest thing I think players of sub based games look at is how much more they spend per month on microtransactions when compared to what they used to pay for a monthly sub.
If the players of an established MMO reaallly hate the F2P structure of another MMO - do you think that established MMO switching to a F2P business model would be smart to copy it - or - try something different?
I don't believe an MMO moving to a F2P business model would be wise to take the "gated approach" - i.e. have to pay to advance - but instead allow the entire game to be accessible on a free account level and the microtransactions involved would have to be something that enhances the gameplay experience instead of "completing" it. -
Quote:Ah, gotcha.Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
This was mentioned earlier in the thread, it is total income (which includes subscriptions).
I am so not an accounting/math person. -
Quote:From what I understand of the graph that was posted - that's revenue of new sales (i.e. new accounts or booster pack purchases) and not of continuing subscriptions. OP, correct me if I'm wrong.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I think it's a bad way to go for a sub based game unless it's a last resort. The reaction from the existing playerbase will make or break the switchover. If a game is designed from scratch to be F2P that's a different story because there won't be a pre-existing playerbase.
I've read some editorials online about the free to play business model - and honestly, thanks to free social gaming like Facebook - it might very well be the new business model for future MMO's/online games. I have friends who fork out money to play Facebook games - buying those little microtransactions. My mom does it.
F2P could be a good thing - even for an established MMO - because it opens up access to more people who might have wanted to play the game but couldn't afford the subscription or initial investment. Conversely, I understand the concerns where it opens up the gateway to griefers and farmers - but you can't always look at the bad side of things. You need to take into consideration the good as well as the bad, but always try to put your emphasis and efforts into concentrating on the good.
I don't think any established MMO would make the switch without considering where it has failed but also where it has succeed in the MMO genre. They would be wise to understand what factored into those failures and successes. I think they would need to understand their playerbase and their perceptions of the free to play business model and build an unique F2P model that satisfies the concerns of their existing playerbase while at the same time making the game accessible to new "free" players without restricting them severely.
Yes, ultimately what I think what would make or break the transition to free to play for an established MMO is the community reaction - but the community would have choice. They can choose to resist the inevitable change, or they could embrace it and embrace the "new" generation of players into their fold.
Personally, I don't see the free to play business model being an entirely bad thing for an established MMO, but as a chance to build an even more robust social community - if the community is willing to embrace it.*
/end ramble
* diehard soloers will disagree. Noted.
Oh, and to toss some Golden Girl goodness into my thread, here are the winks and smiles.
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Oh!
...don't forget to play on Virtue -
I think it's silly. It won't make the changes come any faster. As much as I love base editing, the reality is is that it isn't a necessity of the game. It's a nice feature, but you don't need base editing to get from 1 to level 50 - so yes, it's on the back burner, but I don't doubt they aren't working on it when they can.
They are - and I know you'll take umbrage with this, so I'm sorry - working on more important things. -
My old manager used to make hair dolls out of her employees.
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Quote:Well, Going Rogue is currently - or was? - 50% off at the NCSoft store right now?Originally Posted by Part Time Hero
(If this is covered in another thread, excuse me, I did search for it but did not find anything similar.)
Dear developers, Wikipedia tells me you're involved with the community so there is chance one of you might read this. Don't worry too much about the middle of this post if you're pressed for time, it's flavour text, just skip to the bit I've given the bold title to.
I'm a new player. I bought the basic CoH game about a week ago and have spent far too much time playing it since then.
I was forced to create, what I learned much later through a web search, not from any info in the game, was a Going Rogue character. Of course, I noted that the city I entered on the character selection screen was different to Paragon City and the symbol next to the character name wasn't a hero star of a villain spider, but nothing told me this was a GR character and that after a week I would lose access to it. I don't much care about that character.
What I care about is that I have spent, what is for me and possibly others, a large amount of time playing a particular Hero character that I can no longer access.
You see, this character had a power set that is only accessible in GR. When I created the character there was no warning or notice that this power was GR content. I was merrily levelling my way up. Now, nothing. I can't access that character unless I buy GR. I can't, or, more to the point, I won't. It's too much of a stretch of my income for me to consider. (Chances are, games are more expensive in my country than yours.)
A few minutes ago I sent off a support message from my game account and I look forward to seeing the reply. I asked if it was possible to either have my character respecced without this power set (since I can't access it, I don't know how this would happen) or to have XP and influence (including that for the enhancements I bought and the salvage I had acquired, some of which was going for what I thought was really high prices) granted towards creation of a new, equivalent character.
SUGGESTIONS FOR DEVELOPERS
1) Warn players that they are creating a character with content that will only last a week, after which they will need to buy an expansion. I had no idea. It was only a web search that let me know my chosen power was apparently part of Going Rogue and needed a GR code to use. As I signed up with CoH and didn't have a GR code I really should have been warned.
2) I was forced to create what I much late learned was a GR character. Don't force new players to create a character in a game environment which they cannot access after a week unless they buy an expansion without telling them they should not spend a lot of time on it as it will expire.
3) Don't expect new players to know that they are playing in a time limited trial. I gather that both 1) and 2) would have been avoided had I known that this was a time limited access. I might be a bit brain dead but I really don't recall seeing anywhere in my logon or character creation that any content was special.
I can pretty much guess that point 2 is a way of advertising the expansion but had I played that Praetorian character a lot I'd be really upset that I was forced to create it, not told it was a special time limited offer, and then lost access to it. I hear that there is/just was a week long free GR trial and I gather I took part in this, but I had no idea. I feel cheated out of my time, the story arcs and any attachment I had to the character. I am rather put off by this experience. -
Can we get some billboards like this one?
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Say what you will, I like the new face tech.
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Quote:Out of curiosity, though, you seem to think F2P is a bad way to go (trust me, I have my reservations about it too.) But to play a sort of Devil's Advocate here, don't you think any other MMO looking to go F2P would like at the other game that tried it and would learn from their mistakes and player reactions and handle going F2P differently?Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Several people have been pointing to another MMO that recently went F2P this year and have been claiming that said game is doing better than ever and we should follow it's example. However the parent company of said MMO is divesting themselves of said game and the company that created it because said game has lost $17.9 million during the last fiscal year and has already lost another $7.5 million since it went F2P this year.
Those numbers don't lie. Going F2P is disasterous.
Is F2P inherently bad or just a business model that needs time to be understood/developed? -
Fresh meat! -
I love the Lineage of War update!
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