Turbo_Ski
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Posts
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Quote:Apparently it eludes you that the OP was being a jerk when asked to stop using Force Bubble. I would have kicked him regardless of his AT or build for that kind of behavior but apparently the majority of the defender boards praises such behavior.Originally Posted by Schismatrix
i don't understand where you got that impression at all. My reading was that the Tanker had drawn more mobs than he could hold aggro on into the corridor and the Freakshow had started peeling away and dropping squishies.
Force Field Defender turns on Force Bubble (using positioning and an understanding of the game's physics that apparently eludes Turbo) and pushes all the Freakshow into a corner where they were unable to melee the squishies any more. (Freakshow ranged attacks are trivial compared to their melee attacks.) Now i will admit that the Tanker would have had to move a bit to get back into the middle of the mobs and start claiming his lost aggro, but Force Bubble does allow allies freedom of movement.
When herding large numbers of enemies i've seen many Tankers with taunt lose aggro on multiple mobs who then attack other members of the team. Without taunt or a strong taunt aura Gauntlet isn't enough to maintain aggro on large groups if the team has any players with significant AoE damage.
The only real arrogance i've seen displayed on this thread is on Turbo_Ski. -
Quote:Maybe you should start reading the whole sentence instead of jumping to conclusions after the first 2 words.Originally Posted by UberGuy
Ah. That's not what I think of as "100% lockdown". You have to do something with the rest of a spawn while you defeat the one you have locked down.
Quote:100% lockdown + massive damage on a single target makes it pretty damn easy for a controller to outperform defenders solo even with the worst primary (Grav). -
Quote:You're simply using the defensive extreme with Dark miasma to endure much as the same way Granite Armor tanks would. It doesn't help you burn down the foes any faster than other AT and builds that can endure that kind of punishment. It's also an unrealistic scenario for normal play since you're not going to be fighting +4 EBs that regularly compared to the hordes of minions and lts. and bosses you'll burn through.Originally Posted by UberGuy
I've soloed +4 EB Rikti Suits in the RWZ with Dark/Psi.
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Quote:EVERY control set gets a ST hold which allows them to lockdown a single foe which is what I said.Originally Posted by UberGuy
How many Controller powersets get 100% lockdown? How many get it with 100% uptime without heavy IO investment?
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Quote:No, AVs are designed to be hard. They were toughened up in Issue 3 because they were too trivial, removing or reducing the purple patch restrictions for defenders only would only reverse those changes and wouldn't help defenders solo any easier since the issue isn't support values but base damage.Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Wait Tar Patch debuffs damage? i'm guessing you meant Twilight Grasp instead of Tar Patch even though they're very different in mechanics, one being a dropped autohit AoE patch and the other a ST ranged debuff that requires a tohit roll.
According to RedTomax: TG -12.5% + DN -37.5 = -50% damage before any rank or level modifiers.
So the change being proposed is that Defender debuffs would ignore both level and rank scaling while retaining current values? i agree that it appears a bit overpowered with current debuff values. On the other hand current mechanics make things like tohit debuffs almost useless against AV rank enemies and damage resistance resists damage debuffs. Would adjusting the values for debuff reductions due to rank and level scaling for Defenders to make debuffs somewhat better against higher rank/level enemies be reasonable? -
Quote:I would be happy if they actually buffed Orbiting Death. Currently it costs significantly more than any other damage aura and does the lowest amount of damage of all damage auras.Originally Posted by Raithnor_Mal
I'd be really happy if they reordered the secondary powers a bit. Say, swapping Orbiting Death with Stygian Circle.
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Quote:Which you probably wouldn't be doing if sonic wasn't your secondary. That's like saying Ice Melee is fine because your fire/fire tanker solos just fine, besides the AT they have very little in common with each other as is the same with Sonic Blast and every other defender blast set.Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
I've found on my common-IO-only, level 25 rad/sonic, purely for example, that I find myself sweeping hazard zones in an inverse way to my tankers and scrappers and blasters did. They sought out big spawns of minions - the defender's seeking out small groups of bosses.
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Quote:100% lockdown + massive damage on a single target makes it pretty damn easy for a controller to outperform defenders solo even with the worst primary (Grav). Also soloing a Kheldian is incredibly easy compared to a defender even if you when human form only.Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Have you even tried to solo a Kheld? Defenders do not solo with greater difficulty than controllers. Try soloing a Ice/ff and a Rad/sonic and see how much crappier the defender solos. It won't. Some defenders runs circles around controllers for soloing. Some controllers run circles around defenders for soloing. Controllers as a whole likely do solo easier than defenders, but by no means do they do it with greater less difficulty as a whole for the AT.
The only defender blast set that runs circles around anything is Sonic Blast and that's because it's greatly overtuned compared to it's alternatives. -
Quote:If you had read my posts much earlier in the thread, you would have known I thought the OP was full of it from the start.Originally Posted by Clouded
Post Deleted by Moderator_08
The only person with a bigger ego than the tanker in the OP's story is the OP himself, that's a red flag right off the bat that he is full of it. Also I would have kicked him regardless of his AT and build if he gave anyone in one of my teams that kind of attitude. -
I read just fine folks, I just think the OP is full of it.
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Assault + Tactics would work out best for you.
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Quote:Well to answer half of your question, it's completely the same as the day CoV was released for PvE. Keep in mind that some powers are blocked from it's effects, specifically any power that allows Damage Resist slotting, which is why PB doesn't boost cold shields but does boost FF shields. It's possible you could have been testing with an immune power and not even know it.Originally Posted by Iwrishtoo
Forgive me if the question was too vague. in simple, i was asking if anyone knew as a positive that the power had been permanently changed to what it is now. all my testing has been done in arena pvp due to the fact that i am much more familiar with the machanics of pvp, and pve testing of such a power is significantly more dificult.
The mechanics that i refer to are self status values of the player effected by benumb. prior to i15 benumb had the ability to reduce ANY heal by about 50% and self status resistance the same. I understand the numbers vary by AT, but these seem to be removed entirely. The fluctuation in the -damage is less concerning since it is still atleast present. -
Quote:That pisses you off, doesn't it?Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
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All the controversy is on Turbo_Ski.
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Quote:I disagree. It's not just rare, it's incredibly rare.Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
But this is talking about facing a total team wipe and trying to save the team to regroup. And that is a rare situation if you're playing your FFer properly, though it DOES happen.
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Quote:If they had that much knockback+damage coming from blasters then they really didn't need the tank or the force bubble to protect them, unless of course it was the force bubble that was scattering everything about and the OP is simply lying about it (a much more likely case). There was also a controller present, which unless the controller was absolutely brain-dead and doing NOTHING then there really shouldn't be a reason to use Force bubble.Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
From what the poster said the scattering was happening before they used Force bubble. The rest of the team outside of the OP, tank, and controller was largely blasters. It only takes one of them to be En/* to start to scatter things. And no, not every En/* blaster magically knows how to use KB properly. :P
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Quote:How does that help the team if you're preventing the tank from getting aggro in the first place?Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
To draw aggro from the rest of the team and onto myself. It's not ALL about range, only part.
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Quote:Understand that you're reading his perspective. It's highly possible that he was the reason the tank couldn't hold aggro in the first place with gauntlet because he was pushing everything out of melee of the tank. Also understand that he is going to try and set himself up as the hero no matter what even if he was the main cause of the team's problems.Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Reread what was happening.
This was not a scattering issue to where it was slowing down the team. The mob was already scattered. Using Force Bubble did give the team time since the FF player was drawing aggro to themselves and keeping the mobs away from the rest of the team. Since the team was protected from melee attacks, it was in fact giving the team added protection. -
Quote:Only if it's entirely made up of eyeballs, which are almost entirely ranged based. Again why would you need force bubble against a ranged heavy mob?Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
Rularuu.
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Quote:Please answer the real question of why is your +Def stacking and repulsion bomb spamming failing so hard that you would need force bubble in the first place.Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
Another fun fact: When the tank can't hold aggro, Force Bubble does more than just repel. It also draws at least some attention if not most to you and away from your ailing allies, giving them time to recover. Enemies don't like being pushed around.
Then when the heat is too much on you, PFF to save your own butt and they can take over again. -
Quote:There is this little inherent that tankers have called Gauntlet that taunts the target hit and 4 targets around it even if it was only a single target attack.Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
No, the tauntless, no AoE, Willpower tanker was not controlling the agro anyway. Try reading the OP before sounding like a n00b spouting out your ***.
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Quote:An FF defender's job is to just keep bubbles up on allies, keep dispersion up, and keep spamming repulsion bomb. If it really hits the fan you pull out repulsion field not force bubble to save a team, and such a scenario is incredibly rare when you're already so close to the defense soft cap. It is not beneficial in the slightest to attempt to herd foes into a corner with a fat radius force bubble, if that is what you want to do then reroll storm and pick up hurricane instead.Originally Posted by Aurorous
The tank is the first line of defense the defender/controller is the last line. A defender should be an insurance policy, only used if things go way wrong. If your a good tank a defender can just sit back and blast and have an easy day of it. If your a crappy tank don't tell me how i'm suppose to do my job.
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Quote:If it was really the knockback component that saved teams for you, then you would be using Repulsion Field instead not Force Bubble. You're only using Force bubble for the Repel effect which doesn't stop foes from performing attacks like knockback does.Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
You should try playing FF before making spurious claims. It decreases your creditability.
Telling me that my FF using toons (2 defenders, 2 controllers) can't save the team by using force bubble for KB or to pin mobs (which I have done on MoSTFs on more than one occasion) is not only false, it's disingenious.
I suppose you'll next be telling me that my Energy/Energy/Force Blapper (my main) that's slotted FOR KB can't possibly survive the RWZ challenge by using the KB for mitigation (that blapper has 7% defense to all postions and has succeeded in the RWZ challenge in 4 out of 4 attempts).
A tank, who's team roll is to control aggro, deserves to be annoyed by an on the ball, team saving, Forcefielder, using the KB in Force Bubble (or the mitigation in any other tool for that matter), when that tank fails miserably in their primary responsibility.
A defender who doesn't understand this deserves to play Cold/ instead of FF/
Force bubble also hurts fast paced teams that lay down slick/rain type pets immediately at the start of combat. By the time you shoved them haphazardly into a corner they would have already been dead because you just blew it out of placed AoEs. -
Quote:Force bubble doesn't save teams, Dispersion, Repulsion bomb, and ally shields already have that fully covered for an FF defender.Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Pay no attention to this comment at all Fury. It's obviously coming from a player that plays cold and not FF.
You did the absolute best thing in the situation you were faced with. You had a choice to let the entire team die from the lack of play skills from a very poorly played tank or use your skills to save the team.
The first choice would have been negligence on your part (though you'd have gotten a nice endurance boost from the crappy inherent) the second choice was doing what a defender is all about.... protecting the team.
Had I been there and had the star I would have kicked the tank. You were being a team player. The tank wasn't. -
Quote:You're purposely making playing a melee AT not fun anymore by simply using force bubble and you're being a jerk when asked to stop using it. Yes I would have kicked you immediately for such an attitude.Originally Posted by Fury_Flechette
Are you serious? Based on your past posting history I thought you were more flexible in the ways powers are used. It appears I overestimated you.
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Quote:The problem with that is as I said stacking.Originally Posted by MrQuizzles
Also, those +10 mobs would still have a huge ToHit and accuracy bonus against the player. A +10 minion with that -31.3% ToHit would still have an 88% chance to hit.
1 stack of -31.3% tohit debuff against a +9 minion is 88% chance to hit.
2 stacks of -31.3% tohit debuff against a +9 minion is 16.65% chance to hit.
3 stacks of -31.3% tohit debuff against a +9 minion is 11.25% chance to hit (capped for -Tohit).
Also keep in mind that's -31.3% unslotted tohit debuff from Radiation Infection and dark blast powers hit for -9.38% per debuff stack.
Now here is it under purple patch:
1 stack of -1.252% against +9 minion is 95% (154% pre-cap) chance to hit.
2 stack of -1.252% against +9 minion is 95% (152% pre-cap) chance to hit.
3 stack of -1.252% against +9 minion is 95% (149% pre-cap) chance to hit.
4 stack of -1.252% against +9 minion is 95% (146% pre-cap) chance to hit.
5 stack of -1.252% against +9 minion is 95% (143% pre-cap) chance to hit.
6 stack of -1.252% against +9 minion is 95% (141% pre-cap) chance to hit.
7 stack of -1.252% against +9 minion is 95% (138% pre-cap) chance to hit.
8 stack of -1.252% against +9 minion is 95% (135% pre-cap) chance to hit.
9 stack of -1.252% against +9 minion is 95% (132% pre-cap) chance to hit.
10 stack of -1.252% against +9 minion is 95% (129% pre-cap) chance to hit.
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25 stack of -1.252% against +9 minion is 87% chance to hit.
As for +4 con minions...
with purple patch = -15% tohit debuff is 73% chance to hit.
without = -31.3% tohit debuff is 39% chance to hit.
That's nearly double the normal strength.