Tribal_Axe

and also are you not complaining vehemently about blaster weakness of no mez protection, and low hp? what is the difference in them whining and your whining?

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So it comes down to the issue of melee not wanting to be weak against anything. I can back that up with statements from melee players concerning the new electric set. The set has built in weaknesses and the players are complaining up a storm about how it is retarded for any melee set to have a weakness.

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you realize that most of the complaints are due to the fact not that the set is weak but it forces them in SJ just like fiery aura. that is the complaint

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Look past that and see the root of the problem. The melee player does not want to have the weakness of knockback or immobilization and thus feels compelled to eliminate the weakness. Otherwise, what is forceing them to get SJ? If they accepted the weakness then they could pick any travel pool they wanted, but melee players don't want any weakness. They can't handle it.

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i rarely play villians so i cant say what its like for brutes. but when playing my tank i am expected to take teh aggro. its hard to keep the aggro on myself when i am getting chain knockdowned. thats what happens more often than not to fire tanks that don't take leaping.

that is the problem, without taking leaping its hard to do the job that the devs have stated for us

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So it comes down to the issue of melee not wanting to be weak against anything. I can back that up with statements from melee players concerning the new electric set. The set has built in weaknesses and the players are complaining up a storm about how it is retarded for any melee set to have a weakness.

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you realize that most of the complaints are due to the fact not that the set is weak but it forces them in SJ just like fiery aura. that is the complaint

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WRT the TV contact:

... Do you think after playing to 50 and doing lots of 'end game' content, you could hit 20 mill inf. and then play that contact?

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Assuming for a moment the TV will give missions at 50, and not cut off after a 45-49 range...

Someone above said 300-500k per hour at 50. I'm not sure if that accounts for selling loot, but I'll use 400k badge credit per hour as a good number and calculate that it will take 50 hours of work at level 50 to earn 20 million. Maybe a little less time if you picked up some credit along the way, but that's going to be less per hour at lower levels anyways.

Bottom line: 50 hours for unlocking 6 missions. I don't think so.

(I've been assuming it's 6 missions, every other unlocked contact is similar.)

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what else are you going to do with your 50?

thats exactly right. as soon as everyone figures out that pvp is not balanced for things like Fight Clubs and 1 vs 1 duels than maybe we can start to come to a comprise

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heres a question can anyone name me a FOTM PVP tank? please by all means do so.



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For me, this is an important issue. The idea of using Tanks as the benchmark in this discussion is ridiculous. There are only two out of five places where this kind of encounter can even occur, and in those places Tanks rarely ever seen. Tanks are being portrayed as the big bad boogie man in this scenario, when that is just not the case.

Please, lets see some real comparisons, and stop blowing this out of proportion.

What do Blasters really encounter in PvP that they would want toggle drops to face? The answer is Brutes and Stalkers, both of which are significantly below Tank numbers for defense and resistance. Brutes get Scrapper level numbers for their secondary, and believe it or not are usually doing less damage than Tanks because Fury in PvP is a joke. A Brute needs to have around 25-30% Fury just to get to Tank damage, so don't bother arguing that as an advantage. The truth is, Blasters don't need toggle drops to defeat Brutes or Stalkers, and never have.

Please stop using Tanks for this arguement and lets talk about encounters that are likely to actually occur.

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its not all about blasters either. its about toggle dropping. so tanks are just as valid benchmark as stalkers and brutes

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From what I've seen, the people who are most cheesed off about this (and with the least reason to be) are the Blasters who think they should be able to drop Tanks in one attack chain, which is why I mentioned them specifically. Defenders and Dominators should be the ones complaining here because of there low damage, not Blasters who will almost never face a Tank in PvP. Tanks are so rare for anybody to face in PvP that it is pointless to use them as the yardstick anyway. Lets talk real encounters here, not all the imaginary ones that might occur. Saying Blasters have to worry about fighting Tanks is like saying we should all build bomb shelters in our backyards because Iran might build a nuclear bomb.

All the Test arena regulars here, answer me this. How many Tanks have you faced in the last 4 months?

I've never understood why Blasters had them anyway. What does de-toggling do, at it's most basic level? It makes a player, or one or more of their powers, less effective. Sounds like a debuff to me. The devs have made it clear that debuffs are Defender territory, with sets being shared by Controllers, Corruptors, and MMs. As such, only those ATs should have ever had them.

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first time checking back since yesterday so sorry if this was said, but that was entirely my point. in the first post about it. i mentioned the fact that noone ont eh test center pvp actually plays tanks. the reason for that is the toggle dropping. how effective can a tank be in PVP when all they are doing is re-establishing their toggles over and over again?

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heres a question can anyone name me a FOTM PVP tank? please by all means do so.



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For me, this is an important issue. The idea of using Tanks as the benchmark in this discussion is ridiculous. There are only two out of five places where this kind of encounter can even occur, and in those places Tanks rarely ever seen. Tanks are being portrayed as the big bad boogie man in this scenario, when that is just not the case.

Please, lets see some real comparisons, and stop blowing this out of proportion.

What do Blasters really encounter in PvP that they would want toggle drops to face? The answer is Brutes and Stalkers, both of which are significantly below Tank numbers for defense and resistance. Brutes get Scrapper level numbers for their secondary, and believe it or not are usually doing less damage than Tanks because Fury in PvP is a joke. A Brute needs to have around 25-30% Fury just to get to Tank damage, so don't bother arguing that as an advantage. The truth is, Blasters don't need toggle drops to defeat Brutes or Stalkers, and never have.

Please stop using Tanks for this arguement and lets talk about encounters that are likely to actually occur.

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its not all about blasters either. its about toggle dropping. so tanks are just as valid benchmark as stalkers and brutes

does ID actually give knock back res? cool, i wasn't aware of that buff

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Trying to PVP with no knockback protection is stupid. I encourage everyone to try it, you will be crushed by just about every AT that decides to pick on you. It's particularly humiliating to get Galed around over and over. Only someone who hasn't actually tried PVPing with no knockback protection would suggest it.

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Well that's very disappointing...

So if you have no status protection, pvp is pointless

If you don't have knockback protection, pvp is pointless

If you don't have high burst damage, pvp is pointless...

If you don't have any form of stacked perception, then you will be nothing more then stalker bait.


The more I read.... the more I push the pvp plate away. Potential enjoyment shrinks the more I find out. I guess its nice to know that the only way for someone to get any enjoyment out of it is to play someone elses toon.

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thats a little skewed there. there are buffs to nullify everything but knockback. and you can also get off attacks between teh knockdowns.

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everyone is going on about how this kills the non FOTM blasters in uselessness in PVP. heres a question can anyone name me a FOTM PVP tank? please by all means do so.

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Ice/EM...

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also talking about blasters when moving into melee getting status affected. please tell me which tanks can give status in their secondary.

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Stone has a 100% disorient (Fault) and another 100% hold (Seismic Smash). There is a fair amount of %chance disorient on the mallets.

Axe and Fire true enough don't have status effects. On the other hand they have pretty good burst damage, particularly Axe.

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ice/em would be the closest, but last time i looked at the pvp test center league there wans't a single tank in the group. thay may have changed recently as i dont pay much attention to it.

it is sad to begin with that i can go into warburg and call out the best PVP group on Champion and the team that they bring out doesn't have single melee person on it. all blaster, defenders and controllers. how is that even remotely balanced in pvp.

I know that a couple members on their larger teams are spine regen scrappers, but its sad that an 8 man team has no melee at all. all due to toggle dropping as it is useless to try to pvp if your resetting toggles 90% of the time


hmm wasn't aware of the hold for stone, so you have me there, but as good as my axe burst dmg is, it no where compares to the burst dmg of say an ice or fire blaster. let alone the big hitters from energy.

just to specify toggle drops needed to be lessened for sure. did they go to far with the #'s probably, i see them moving up a bit eventually

everyone is going on about how this kills the non FOTM blasters in uselessness in PVP. heres a question can anyone name me a FOTM PVP tank? please by all means do so.


also talking about blasters when moving into melee getting status affected. please tell me which tanks can give status in their secondary.

SS - sure KO blow
stone - Yes some big hammer ( dont remember power name)
fire - nothing
axe - nothing
mace - sure has a disoreint, but it is week at best and pitiful dmg means you probably recover before he can kill you anyways.


now combine that with teh ability of toggle drops to completely nullify my primary pool powers and see why not too many tanks do PVP competitively.

yes where is the post. i haven't seen anything about this from posi

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No, your corruptor has no toggle drops.

Let's make something clear regarding toggle drops...Stuns, Holds, Sleeps will drop ALL toggles, provided that the target has no status resistance. The reason why people believed that Total Focus (from a Dominator) drops all toggles is because it has two things going for it...a 100% chance to drop at least 1 toggle and a disorient. Let's say I hit a Tanker with a Total Focus. If that toggle I drop happens to be Unyielding...The Total Focus will also Stun the Tanker and drop all of his toggles because he has no status protection.

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And then the stun lasts 5 seconds and supression kicks in, whereupon I am murdered because I cannot hold the guy again, Domination or not.

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i have been held for much longer than 5 seconds at a time in pvp after my shield is either overloaded or toggle dropped.

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<<Personnally, I really like these numbers. Toggle dropping has no counter and is too far from the PvE gameplay. Also, most squishie can do well without them (like Blasters and Controllers on the Hero side). >>

It has no counter!??! To far from PvE gameplay?!!?

I think we need to rexamine the larger picture. Every class with a stun or a hold has a 100% toggle dropping skill, which is a counter to toggle dropping. So long as your opponent doesn't have defense against that ability.

So while every single AT with defense for these things is saying "these changes are long overdue!" the ATs who have no defense (blasters) are whinning. Why? Because toggle dropping was my ONLY COUNTER to ANY AT that has a stun\hold (mentioning acrobatics will show have far removed you are from the blaster experience).

But i guess the devs would rather me walk into a fight with 20 BFs than have a chance to rely on my powers to win. I mean its not like i have 2 power sets devoted to offense...oh wait...

Maybe i should save this rant, because blasters are getting a review, and things will probably improve. Right Statesman?

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okay you want to you use your powersets to do something? you are worried you have to take 20 break frees?

look at it this way, im a fire/axe tank against massive toggle drops all i can do is constantly turn on my toggles to only have them knocked off again repeatedly. if i dont reapply my toggles. chances are a secondary effect of your blasts or melee dmg will stun me.

even if you dont have stuns how long can i possibly last against blaster attacks without my shields up?

lol

can someone tell be what exactly you have to do to capture a pillbox and to capture a heavy?

thx

fire shield oddly is the last one dropped for me on a regular basis. it usually goes in the following order.

1 - acrobatics
2 - tough or plasma shield
3 - Blazing aura or plasma shield

now that doesn't happen all the time, but i would say a good 70% of the time. i could live without FS but i NEED PS

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Placate is autohit. The only time you'd be able to see them is if a) you have addition +perception, or b) you hit them before they finished the placate.

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maybe thats how its supposed to be but not on live.

day the placate patch went live. had a FC match versus a stalker. 2 times noted in the match that he placated me and i could still attack.

instance 1 - BA had been detoggled. stalker placates me and jumps away to go into hide. i had no attacks queued except a brawl that missed. i could immediatly go over and attack him with swoop right away - i was not placated at all.

instance 2. Blazing Aura was up and did hit. was again able to walk over and hit.

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So... many... bad... assumptions.

Wow! It's a good thing that defense sets haven't gotten stronger in PvP since i6 came out. It's a good thing that Tankers can't still easily find themselves with upwards of 50% damage resistance. And it's a good thing every Blaster and Defender combo can get through the 11- and 9= point mez protection still in game, just as quickly as a Tanker can blow through a Blaster or Defender's mez protection with KO Blow. Because, otherwise, that arguement would be completely misleading.


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speaking of bad assumptions thats one right there. sure SS tanks maybe the most common, just like em blasters or stalkers, but they are not hte only ones out there. take a look at axe or Mace tankers. do they have a single massive target attack like KO blow? absolutely not. combine that with axe doing KB which as you stated is almost worthless in pvp.

Maybe the #'s are a bit low but with these new numbers maybe my fire/axe tank will actually stay toggled long enough for me to do some actual damage to someone before im detoggled and held

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Just why the heck do Stalkers still have the highest toggle drop chance??? Stalkers already have unresisted damage in their criticals.

If any AT should still have high toggle drop percentages it should be defenders who cannot dish out the damage needed to bring down a toggle heavy opponent.

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Stalker crits are resistable. Stalker Assassin Strikes "bonus" damage is not resistable.

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I am not sure that is true but in either case, the point is that Stalkers already have unresisted damage so why should their attack also have a high toggle drop chance??

...and with placate they even got a freebe. That's another good question, why is Placate still auto hit?? Same rule as taunt should apply.

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placate pretty much is. although i think it has basically a higher to-hit than taunt. many times when 1 v 1 against a stalker they as, placate and yet i still see and target them easily as if the placate never happened.

i would say its about 50% that i can target them immediately after a placate.

was thinking the same thing. i would hate to have to work to get an entire team confused just to have to kill an AV to get a badge

are you sure that is all of the powers castle? doesn't total focus for blasters toggle drop as well?

also what about posion gas trap for Masterminds. if i sit in there for more than a couple seconds all my toggles drop currently on live, or is that something else?

yay!!!!

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wait is that age a typo? i thought you were already 15?

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when did i say that?

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i swear all your other posts referring to your age pegged you at 15.

wait is that age a typo? i thought you were already 15?