TopDoc

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As a side note: maybe teams of 6rad/1kin/1empath would work? I'm thinking that fortitude and ID would be very nice vs. status effects. Kin's SB comes later at 12, agreed, but PLing to there isn't exactly difficult, esp. with 8-man insanity defender teams, and SB is roughly as effective as AM - more so if siphon power is taken and used properly, though it takes more time to keep the buffs up. The empath could focus on his/her offense for powers, and secondaries for slots, before getting the auras.

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You need to gain something if you want to give up a Rad. Kinetics comes close to the same abilities as Rad, but you really lose a lot. Increase Density, Siphon Power, and Speed Boost may be nicer than AM (I don't know), but they are higher maintenance (lots of clicking). Kinetics have no AoE mob resistance debuff, which gives Rads a major DPS advantage. You don't get AoE mob damage debuff (Fulcrum Shift) till level 32. By then, the teams attacks will likely be damage capped with AM, Assault, and minor slotting. The heal is targeted. Finally, Rad has 2 Holds (Choking Cloud and more importantly EM Pulse) that dominate at later levels.

Why add an Empath? With the possible exception of Clear Mind, the Rad buffs & debuffs are far superior. I don't think Fortitude protects against status effects, and you can only cover about half the team, even with massive recharge reduction. At high levels, Empaths get Regeneration Aura (mostly unnecessary) and 2 END Recovery powers (completely unnecessary), while Rads get 2 nice AoE Holds and an attack (maybe mostly useless, maybe not).

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Anybody starting a radiation supergroup on Virtue? I'll join in a heartbeat!

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Come over to Freedom! (But don't come over to the Dark side! :-)

We have an established moderately low-level (though rising fast) SG that is always taking members. You'll make level 8 in no time. I'll SK anyone level 2 and up, unless I'm doing a TF or a mission in a hazard zone where you can't go.

If you can't find Buffer Master, look for Sub Atomic or Becoming I. They are the other two leaders of the SG.

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On all Rad defender teams, especially with 6 or more on the team, activation times for attack powers matter more than unenhanced cycle times. With 8 AMs and Hasten the first 2 dark blasts cycle as quickly as the first two radiation blasts but do significantly more damage. Moonbeam at 4th means it is slotted much earlier and is truly something to behold when 8 team members use it at the same time as an opening strike on an AV.

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I haven't seen many level 4 AVs. :-) Something that's very nice to see is masses of Minions and even Lts dropping to Irradiate starting at level 4. If you really want to compare damage, Dark Blast beats Neutrino Beam, but Irradiate blows away Gloom by nearly an order of magnitude against the masses of mobs you fight in a big team. Sure it recharges slowly, but you only need it once per mob group.

I don't think Hasten is worth much except as a prerequisite for Super Speed. Even without Hasten, 2 attacks will recharge almost as fast as they animate.

Stacked AM gives you such a large damage bonus that slotting attacks for damage makes a very small difference. Sure you want to slot them eventually to reach the damage cap, but don't waste too many slots on them early on. I added 2 slots to Irradiate and that's it as of level 21. At 22 it'll be at the damage cap in a team of 8, which is good enough for me.

It's far better to slot team oriented powers. The most important thing to fully slot early on is AM! Slot AM for Recharge so you have it more often when you run in smaller teams. AM is the equivalent of 3 Training : Damage enhancements, 4 Training : Recharge Reduction enhancements, and probably 1 or 2 Training: END Reduction enhancements in every single power for every character in your team. AM really deserves your first 5 slots.

After AM slot RI and RA so the mobs don't hit often and you can heal if they do. As you get higher you want to get and slot more team oriented defenses, as the mob alpha strike gets more powerful. That means Maneuvers and Grant Invis. Defeat slows you down, both with debt and reduced team firepower. And if you miss an AM cycle because you're running from the hospital, that hurts everyone a bit and you a lot.

Once you're done slotting team oriented powers, you might as well slot your own attacks for the little extra damage that you can.

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In the later game Cosmic Burst is hard to beat close up, which is where such untouchable groups tend to fight. In any case the earlier levels are much faster with dark since the same number of attacks is firing with either but dark has more damage.

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Who levels faster at levels 8 and up, a Fire blaster or an Energy blaster? The one with the big AoE alpha strike. Who levels faster at levels 4 and up, a team of Rad/Rads or a team of Rad/Darks? The one with the big AoE alpha strike.

I rerolled Buffer Master about a week and a half ago, and he's level 21 now. Most of the Defenders in the SG are Rad secondary. Those who play nightly are in the 20s.

An all-Rad team faced our first Arch Villain last night, Dr. Vahzolik. He was level 17, we were 10, 16, 16, 19, 21, 21. To make it reasonable, the 21s both exemplared to 16, and the 10 SK'd to 18. He went down real fast, and he barely hit or hurt us. It was a bit disappointing. We'll probably put a team together to do the Synapse TF in a few days, but I have a feeling Babbage and the Clockwork King aren't going to be too tough. The Clockwork secondary effect on attacks is END Drain, but stacked AMs counter that nicely.

Tsoo on the other hand were harder. We had a lot of defeats in a big team on a Tsoo mission. Those Yellow Ink Men dropped our toggles faster than we could put them up. AM does not provide a significant defense. Looks like our options are: more non-toggle defenses (Grant Invis), Snipe, massive AoE alpha strike, or stock up on Discipline Inspirations. We could all take 3 powers in Leaping to get Acrobatics, but that seems like a lot of effort for very little protection. We could also pick our battles, and just not pick Tsoo. But that's just avoiding the issue, and I'd prefer a solution. Any recommendations?

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Dark Blast is definitely the best power for an all rad defender team, even though some would argue radiation. (A lot of math went into the choice.)

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I like crunching numbers. Could you point me to these numbers, because I don't see this until you get moderately high level. And at that point there isn't really a very big difference.

Rad gets Irradiate and Electron Haze at level 4 and 10 respectively, while Dark gets Tenebrous Tentacles and Dark Fall at 16 and 20. The Rad versions do slightly more damage according to the Brawl index. The Dark version have much lower recharge times, but the significant Recharge Reduction of AM does a fair amount to reduce that advantage.

For single target, Dark Blast and Gloom do more damage than Neutrino Bolt and X-Ray Beam, but they have longer recharge times. AM reduces the RAD advantage this time, so Dark does significantly better single target damage.

Dark gets Torrent at 28, while Rad has to wait till 35 for Neutron Bomb. Given the Recharge Reduction of AM, you can probably cast the 3 AoEs almost as fast as they animate.

My guess is that levels 4-16 will go a lot faster for a Rad/Rad team than a Rad/Dark team. Starting at 4, the Rad/Rads can defeat all the minions in a group with Irradiate. Electron Haze at level 10 just adds insult to injury, literally. At 16 the Rad/Darks get Tentacles, but the mobs have more hit points. At 20 when the Rad/Darks have 2 AoEs, I'd consider them slightly better. They have better single target damage, plus Tentacles is a cone immobilize. That helps keeps the mobs together for debuffs. But by this point, if most of the characters have 2 AoEs, they will be dropping most everything but bosses and wanderers in the alpha strike. Dark will just clean up a little faster.

But there's more than crunching numbers. The psychological impact of 8 stacked AMs at level 2 is massive. Add to that AoEing masses of minions at level 4. Those two things give you a team that people want to be in all the time, once they see what it can do. Some people want to play different Rads, and that's fine. But for people just starting a Rad, I recommend a Rad/Rad Defender.

The SG is at about 40 members and growing, with one or two teams on every night. You stopped playing your Rad/Dark at level 12, before you got any AoEs. I made the SG and encouraged people to play Rad/Rad to reach my goal of playing a Rad Defender to high levels. I don't think Rad/Dark would have been as successful.

We did our first TF on Friday, Positron's. This is often viewed as the longest hardest TF, taking 3-4 hours for good teams and 7+ for bad teams. The first mission is one of the hardest, and a good indicator of how well you will do. Many teams don't make it past this. Smaller teams are usually better.

We had a full team of 8 for the entire TF. We had 7 Rads (one an Ill/Rad controller) and 1 Blaster (an alt because someone's Rad was only level 10 and some of the missions are in Boomtown). We had 2 chars at level 16 to SK an 11 and 12, and I think the rest were 13 and 14.

I was the only one to be defeated in the first mission. We had various other deaths later, including a couple near total team wipes facing level 17 CoT Ruin mages. But overall there weren't all that many. The average was probably 2 or 3 defeats per person for the entire TF.

We tried to do missions quickly, using Group Invis to run to the end of appropriate missions when you just had to defeat the end Boss and friends. I had TP and Recall Friend, and another char had Recall Friend, so we could move the entire team about pretty quickly between missions too.

In all it took about 3.5 hours. I think that's pretty good for an 8 person team. I gained 1 level, and I think some of the lower level chars gained 2. I got a nice shiny level 18 SO, which has already turned yellow because I hit 19 last night. The levels go by almost too quickly.

Looks like I'll have to do Synapse's TF mid week before I out-level it. Against Clocks, I think AM's END Recovery bonus mostly nullifies their secondary effect of END Drain. But I hope to do the Vahzilok arc tonight and see how the team does against an AV (Dr. Vahzilok) before we face Babbage and the Clockwork King.

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As to leaving survivors, is the goal to scour the zone clean or rack up the fastest and easiest xp? Are you going to stop at individual mobs and waste time toasting them with either group? While there are spawns that are larger than the area of a Ball Lightning, most aren't anywhere near that large.


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Electron Haze is a cone, and most other secondaries have a cone. You don't need to slot them for much of anything given the buffs & debuffs. Slot them for Cone Range Increase. You can get some mighty big cones.

I started this post Friday and never posted it...

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As to danger, I'm pretty sure the Defenders aren't in much danger either. 8 AMs means status effects probably pass in the blink of an eye. 8 EFs makes incoming damage laughable, and 8 Radiant Auras. . .well, any hit had best be a one-shot kill, which is unlikely under 8 AFs, assuming there all that many hits under 8 RIs.

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Now there you would be wrong. Starting RI or EF draws agro. At low levels you can take the mob alpha strike before they get unbuffed. Not so at higher levels. We tried some level 20 missions with a team of 8 last night (Dec 9), and had problems going up against the 5th Column. The mob alpha strike against the first debuffer was often enough to cause a face plant. And they do plenty of AoE attacks, which are supposedly not affected by power pool defenses like Maneuvers and Grant Invis.

It's entirely the alpha strike. After that, the mobs got so debuffed that we could finish them off without much difficulty.

Any recommendations? My thoughts are as follows...

1) Stack up on Maneuvers and Grant Invis. You just have to survive the AoEs as the direct attacks will mostly miss. Note that this seems to be a good idea anyway, as you can't always debuff mobs before being attacked.

2) Get an Ill/Rad Controller and have his Army take agro first. This seems like the best solution.

3) Find a tank. Buffed up, they'll be doing Scrapper damage! Unfortunately, they may decide to play a Rad Defender after they see us in action. "We lose so many good tanks that way."

4) Play in smaller teams. Bad, but this is what we did last night to finish the mission (with under 30 seconds left).

5) Open with crowd control. You can do this starting at level 6 with Flash and Grant Invis. Defenders get Choking Cloud at 18, but I don't know the timing of agro & the hold. Do you draw agro before the 5 second tic that holds mobs?

Yep, still recruiting, though I'm not rounding up level 1 characters and taking them to the sewers. Just make up a character on Freedom and give Buffer Master a tell. I'm usually on starting at 8:00 PM EST.

Playing last night, we brought in a Blaster to SK one of the lower level characters. That's 7 Rad Defenders or Controllers and 1 Blaster. He kept on saying, "I love you guys". Recruiting this way almost makes me feel dirty. "Here, have some AM. Like it? It's free... tonight. Doesn't it make you feel ALIVE! Too bad after tonight you won't ever feel that way again. Unless... you become one of us." He said he's planning on making up a Rad/Rad and joining the SG.

In my recruiting drive last night, we ended up with 7 of us at level 4. (I had to kick one person who kept attacking high level groups when AM was down.) I had offered 100K Influence for playing, but no one wanted it. Most wanted to just keep playing after that. 2 of us picked up Irradiate at level 4. With 5 or 6 stacked AMs, the 2 Irradiates were enough to defeat the minions in a group. At level 6, add some more Irradiates and EFs, and I expect the Lts would go down as well.

I think that means fewer X-Ray Beams. Irradiate does the same damage but it's AoE. Granted the recharge is considerably longer, and the END cost is higher, the total damage is considerably larger as well. But with stacked AM, it recharges really fast and probably doesn't cost too much END. You only use it once or maybe twice per battle.

My recommended build up to level 10 is (1) Radiation Infection or Radiant Aura, Neutrino Bolt, (2) Accelerate Metabolism, (4) Irradiate, (6) Radiant Aura or Enervating Field, (8) open, (10) Electron Haze. Slot AM fully, then slot Radiant Aura or attacks. You can add more that 2 slots per attacks, and it may actually be a good idea, but you'll likely respec out of them unless they are for secondary effects. Damage SOs in 3 slots is about +100%, so you're at the damage cap with 8 AMs. That may be a better option than Assault, and you probably get enough slots to do that. Irradiate and Electron Haze 6 slotted with DO Damage up to level 22 may make levelling easier. At 22 switch to 3 Damage SOs and 3 Recharge SOs, then respec at 24 to just 3 Damage SO.

Note that everyone should have Radiant Aura and 1 toggle debuff. Everyone opens with a debuff, hit 2 AoEs, heal while finishing bosses, next group.

The above build leaves one slot at level 8 for something else. The team should have 1 or 2 people each with Recall Friend and Grant Invis. Everyone else can take a different Movement power prerequisite or X-Ray Beam. Hasten might be nice for the extra recharge reduction, but Super Speed may not be necessary as you're already moving nearly that fast with the stacked AMs. Combat Jumping would be reasonable, plus the status protection with it and Acrobatics might be necessary at higher levels. Hover (and later Flight) seem too slow to be worth taking. Still, some Rad controllers may take it to get Group Fly for pet movement.

Once we can get 8 people all together and all around the same level (via SK or Exem), things are really going to pick up.

I think I'm done recruiting at level 1. Tonight we start levelling.

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StabbinPayne : Is there a recharge cap? Drat, that would screw up all my numbers

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There are probably caps on everything, just to prevent the sort of thing we're doing here.

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Arcas: I haven't seen any dedicated rad/rad teams in recent months.

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Maybe I'll start a revival.

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Arcas : Lucky for me I have some free time for once. I'll head over to Freedom tonight.

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Seems like a lot of people did. I got a half dozen new people asking to get into the SG who learned about it from reading these boards. Most were already Rad characters on Freedom.

Also, I shamelessly bribed people 100k Influence to play a Rad/Rad for an hour. It took a while to find enough people, get everyone to make new characters, get organized, get to level 2, and hit the Sewers. We only actually played for a half hour, but everyone made it to level 4. Only 2 deaths, me early on and one other veteran who drew too much agro.

I had half the chars take Radiation Infection and half Radiant Aura, just to make sure we had a nice mix. At level 2 with only a single attack, we could mow through 2 mob groups before AM started dropping. Level 2 everyone took AM, and I recommended a second attack at level 4. But then we broke up so I could pay people and we didn't start up again.

I'll be recruiting again tonight, starting at 8:30 PM EST. Look for Miss Ion if you're interested. With better organization, we should have more time for playing. And with 2 attacks starting at level 4, I expect things will go faster.

This team can't really hunt in city zones; there just aren't enough mobs. Once we have enough people in the SG to make a group of 8 of level 5+ every night, we can hit the Hollows and level pretty fast. Once we get enough people over 10 who are somewhat close in level, they can SK lowbies and do missions. After all, any Rad level 6+ can make a significant contribution. They'll have AM, 2 attacks, and some combination of RA, RI, EF, and an AoE. One of the higher level chars can take Recall Friend and use that as needed. After all, Teleport is the fastest movement power if you have a massive END recovery, and you can 6 slot it for range.

So all we really need is a core of 4 people who are all about the same level.

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Bobartig : There isn't a recharge reduction cap afaik, and if there is, its nowhere near as low as 300%. However, recharge reduction works on a reciprocal function.

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I meant +300% Recharge Reduction, for a recharge time of X/(1+3). Diminishing returns limits the effectiveness, but doesn't really cap this. But I believe the Devs put caps on everything, just in case.

I know about the reciprocal function, that's how I figured out the AM bonus and base recharge time. Rest recharges in 600 seconds, or 564 seconds if a single AM is used (which lasts 120 seconds). The 36 second difference for 120 seconds means AM provides +30% Recharge Reduction. AM normally recharges in 384 seconds (IIRC), which would be 420 seconds (7 minutes) unenhanced by itself. With 8 AMs for +240%, AM should recharge in 420/(1+2.4) or 123.5 seconds.

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The_Deliveryman : To the OP, I have to admit that Ill/Rad would probably be superior

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Yep, I'm beginning to see that. I just don't have a basis for comparison. A big group of them would be like Zookeeper Fire Controllers with their 200 Fire Imps. Maybe I'll recommend 1 char tonight makes an Ill/Rad Controller. Spam Spectral Wounds and the mob may fall before any of it heals. But Earth is quite good at low levels. The combined Stone Cages and Quicksand keeps all of the mobs tightly packed.

BTW, we have an Earth/Rad Controller who started Friday or Saturday when I made the SG, and he's already level 15. Granted he plays a lot. I don't think the early levels will go slowly. Maybe 4 Rad/Rad Defenders for firepower and 4 Ill/Rad Controllers for CC, then the Rad/Rads can switch if they want later. Who knows.

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quuuux : Another plus for the Ill/Rad: at 41 you get your epic pool, and since you don't really need anything else at this point, you take Indomitable Will for status protection. Now, on the off chance something gets lucky enough to slip a status past your capped defense, the one effect will not burn through your status protection. With all the AMs up, it will have a miniscule duration, too.

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With lots of pets taking agro, you're unlikely to get attacked. If you are attacked, you're unlikely to get mezzed. If you do get mezzed, it'll be for a short time. With lots of pets, you won't be attacked by many mobs during that time. Sounds about as safe as possible.

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ColdSnapps : Since we're in the realm of theory, how about 8 Kinetic/Psis?

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I considered that, but I don't have numbers on Kinetics. I was originally thinking that Fulcrum Shift would be needed to really debuff mob damage and reach the damage cap, but Rads don't really need it. They get RI and level 1, AM at 2 and EF at 6. The combination of RI and EF means the mobs do very little damage. There's absolutely no reason to take a Kinetic for Fulcrum Shift, since you don't even get it till 32.

Siphon Power at 1 is a nice damage buff/mob debuff, but Speed Boost isn't available till 12. Assuming they are the same buff as AM at 2 and EF at 6, I think the Rad powers are more effective, easier to use, and lower level. Lower level is important.

The key thing is getting enough people together to make a team of 8. You need to find some dedicated people to do that with Kin/Rad before 12. But with Rad/Rad, you get Uber at level 2. It's REAL hard to beat that.

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ColdSnapps : Why Psi as a secondary?

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I wondered that too. I eventually decided it was a perfectly good secondary, just not as good as Rad. Psi has one of the best early AoEs with front loaded damage and a nice secondary effect, and another AoE at high levels before the big nuke. But Rad has 2 low level AoEs, plus another before the big nuke. The secondary effect of Rad is mostly useless with RI, but the secondary effect of Psi is similarly useless if the mobs are really debuffed and drop real fast. In the final analysis, the AoEs are enough of a difference to make Rad the secondary of choice. You don't snipe bosses to open combat, you debuff with RI and EF. Then 2 AoEs from everyone and the bosses may not be left standing. Do 1 AoE with Psi and that may not be the case.

That said, there's nothing wrong with having a few Rad/Psi defenders in the group. Diversity is good. I talked with a Rad/Elec who groups with 2 friends that are the same, and they can rock with END drain. You can fully slot your attacks for End Drain and watch bosses stand around gasping for End.

I don't think there's one perfect team. People play what they like. I play what I like, and I like crunching numbers and looking for efficient, creative, interesting builds. I have to make do with the number I have available, which are no where near complete. And more importantly, for this build I have to convince other people to play Rad to get the most out of it. So I do my best.

It really doesn't matter what you mix; you're going to be rolling over mobs with any combination involving the Radiation Primary. But the number cruncher in me can't resist finding the perfect combination that gives the best, safest, fastest, most efficient, and most exciting gameplay experience.

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Rad_Avenger : One note: Slotting of AM is definitely key

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I keep going back on forth on this. With 8 people, there's no need to slot AM. But until we get enough people playing regularly, it's probably a good idea. I'd recommend slotting it for Recharge though, so it's up more often. Once there are enough people to get teams of 8 regularly, change some slots to END Recovery. One or two slots of End Reduction in EF might be enough to make a difference. Also, you don't need to run many EFs. No one else needs extra END, so pass all Catch a Breath Inspirations to those doing EF.

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Rad_Avenger : Also, some of the Leadership powers may be over kill

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Early on yes, the mobs don't hit often or hard, and they don't have many status effects. Later, being hit hurts more. So there may always be a place for Maneuvers. But it also depends on how well the team plays. If mobs are always debuffed with a couple RIs and EFs, then you don't need Maneuvers or Tactics. If you have a Controller with well-behaved pets to take agro, then you may not need Maneuvers. But if you have pets or players that agro mobs before they are debuffed, you need some sort of defense.

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Rad_Avenger : Recharge time was awesome with even 4 AMs - Neutrino Bolt was almost always up. I might slot a couple of recharges into Irradiate just to have it always up (if that's possible).

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With 8 AMs, you can almost use Neutrino and X-Ray as fast as they animate. According to Hero Planner, Irradiate has a 20 second recharge. Recharge Reduction has diminishing returns, so the more you put in the less it does. Assuming there is no Recharge Reduction cap, 8 AMs and 6 Recharge Reduction SOs will give you 3.7 second for recharge. Electron Haze (the level 10 AoE) has a base 16 second recharge, or 3 seconds after AMs and SOs. You could alternate these two AoEs with a little waiting between each. At level 35 you get a third AoE. At this point, you should be able to cycle through them as fast as they animate.

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JovianF : Im REALLY interested in this. What times do you guys play???

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I'm usually on starting at 8:00 PM EST. I'll be organizing another recruiting run tonight (Dec 7) and maybe tomorrow, starting at 8:30 with Miss Ion, so make sure you're on before then and give me a tell. I play Uranium 238 during the run, I reroll him at level 1.

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I seriously doubt anything could top an 8 * ill/rad team, it just takes a bit longer to mature (basically until every hits 19th)

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Oh, that's REAL easy.

AM affects everyone in range. Think about 16 Ill/Rad Controllers doing the same thing in 2 teams of 8. They all converge to the same spot for AM every 2 minutes. They can summon more PAs, more Phantasms, and the Phantasms hit the damage cap without any Damage Enhancements. But you still 6 slot them for damage for the ones you summon after AM.

In this case you don't need Hasten; you'll probably be at the Recharge Reduction cap.

Anyone know the Recharge Reduction cap? If I had to guess, I'd say +300%. But you never know.

As an alternative, how about Fire/Rad controllers doing the same thing? You'd call them Zookeepers, because they'd have about 200 Fire Imps. But that many would probably get in each other's way, so ranged attacks from the Illusion pets would be better.

I was trying to consider which controllers would best fit into a Rad defender team. Illusion was one of my choices. But I have never actually played a controller, much less to high level, so I couldn't make a real informed decision.

Having never done this at high levels, I assumed that AM gave something like a Magnitude 1 resistance to most status effects. My understanding is that you are immune to status effects until they beat your resistance. That means you would have to be hit by several big attacks, or lots of smaller ones, before you actually got Stunned or whatever. Running around in the Hollows and getting smashed by Bricks, I don't recall ever seeing anyone in the team wandering around Stunned if AM was up. But, if you're right and I'm wrong, then I see your point. Can anyone else confirm that AM ONLY reduces the time?

I've got 2 Blasters near 40 with CJ and Acrobatics. CJ gives you some magnitude of Immobilize resistance. Acrobatics give some magnitude of protection against knockdown, and some protection against Holds that I haven't studied. So taking 3 powers gives you some resistance against 1 type of status attack that affects toggles. Immobilization isn't a problem when mobs are massively debuffed. Knockdown isn't a problem unless it is chained, which I haven't seen. You really recommend taking those powers?

I've already theorized about this a bit, since I don't really know how this will play out at higher levels. I've started recommending Grant Invis, as it's a click power with a moderate duration. It's high maintenance, but a full group casting it fully slotted on every player will put everything up to +1 bosses down to 5% chance to hit versus direct attacks. (Supposedly, pool powers like Maneuvers and Grant Invis don't provide defense against AoE attacks.) Assuming Radiation Infection will debuff the accuracy of AoE attacks, just a couple up will keep the team very safe. With +240% Recharge Reduction, toggles that go down will likely be ready in a couple of seconds.

But say this is just too big of a problem to get around. What if the gravy train stops at level 40 when status protection is too important? Maybe Respec to be a "regular" Rad defender. Maybe have people take Medicine, Stimulant (if that's magnitude protection rather than time reduction). Maybe take an Empath with Clear Mind and only run with 7 Rads at a time.

Or do what everyone else does when faced with those types of mobs. Don't fight them. Find something easier.

I just want to get to the point where something provides a challenge to a team like this.

Some more observations...

I did some timing tests. AM gives +30% Recharge Reduction, lasts 120 seconds, and has a base recharge time of 420 seconds (not counting itself). 8 stacked AMs with a single training Recharge Reduction enh should give a recharge time of 120 seconds. That's perma-AM.

You really need 6+ Rad Defenders or Controllers for critical mass. Fewer than that and you have AM downtime long enough to cause problems.

No need to slot AM at low levels if you always have enough people. The problem is getting enough people. In the early levels, your slots are better off being spent on Radiation Infection and Radiation Aura. But once you start getting enough toggles at 10+, it may be good to add slots to AM for END Recovery.

Kaor01, Enervating Field may be an END hog, but there's no problem running it and RI and attacking at high speed with enough stacked AMs. One stat I saw claims AM is the equivalent of Stamina unslotted. Stack 8 AMs and you could run Enervating Field and still gain END fast. At higher levels with more toggles (the entire Leadership line), you may need to slot a few END Recovery enhancers just in case.

Darkening_Flame (or anyone else), stop by Freedom tonight (Dec 6) around 8:00 PM EST. Bring your friends! I'm going to shamelessly bribe people with Influence to try this build starting at level 1. Try it for an hour and see if you like it.

You really need a lot of Rads to get this going. Most builds increase the Damage Per Second (DPS) of a team at best linearly. A team of 4 Blasters & Scrappers will increase it's DPS if it goes up to 8 of the same by a factor of x2. But they'll start dying due to larger mob sizes, so they'll have to cut down on the damage classes (and DPS) and add some support that puts out less DPS.

This Rad team will increase its DPS by a factor of about 8 if it goes from 4 members to 8, and they'll be safer! 4 Rads get +100% damage about 60% of the time. 8 Rads get +200% damage all the time. That works out to a bit less than x2 damage. Everyone is blasting so you get x2 damage from having x2 people. 4 Rads can maintain 4 Radiation Infections, but probably not 4 Enervating Fields during combat, due to the END cost. 8 Rads with perma-AM can maintain 8 stacked Enervating Fields, so I'll give that a conservative x2 damage from the mob Resistance debuff.

Why is it safer? The mob DPS may actually drop going from a 4 Rad team to an 8 Rad team, even though there are lots more mobs, more Lts and Bosses, and higher level. The mobs will be even more debuffed by stacked RI and EF. More people with Maneuvers and Grant Invis at level 10+ can cut down on the mob's Alpha Strike before the debuffs all take hold. More people with Radiant Aura (PBAoE Heal) can heal damage.

One correction to my earlier post. Swap Assault and Tactics, as Tactics is the third power in the set. You get Tactics by level 16, and probably Assault earlier. That means the entire team may be at the damage cap of +300% around level 10.

Early testing is going well. With 6 people (including 1 Earth/Rad controller), we were dropping things pretty easily. We didn't have perma-AM, but we did usually have several up at once. It was a good proof-of-concept. Still looking for more people to hit critical mass of 8 people on together. (If you're interested, Freedom server, look for Buffer Master.)

We did the Sewers to get everyone to 6. I charged into the middle of mobs with EF, the Controller did Stone Cages, then came the other debuffs, one AoE attack, and a lot of single target attacks to finish things off. People were dinging often. It looks like EF and early AoEs are the key. My char is Rad/Dark, and I picked Dark for the supposedly fast animation times of the first two attacks. Now I don't think Dark is a particularly good Secondary. The AoE is a slow higher-level DoT. Rad secondary has two attacks that are nearly as fast, followed by two AoE/cone attacks, and another one at 35 before the big nuke at 38. The Rad cone attack, Electron Haze, seems to be one of the best options with only knockdown and high damage up front. So I will probably reroll Buffer Master as a Rad/Rad Defender before he gets too high level.

Also, Maneuvers and Grant Invis may be more important early on. The first person to draw agro needs to be protected somehow. At really low levels the mobs alpha strike isn't too bad. But even if you toss EF first, the alpha strike from a higher level hazard zone mob group can take you out. With stacked slotted Maneuvers and Grant Invis, the problem goes away. So the recommended build is AoE (if possible) or EF at level 6, Maneuvers or Grant Invis at level 8, and slot it fast.

Back to tonight... Then we hit the Hollows. We picked up a Blaster in the Hollows for added firepower, since we were down to 4 Rad defenders. He decided to create a new Rad Defender after he saw how well it worked. I think that'll become a standard recruiting tactic. :-) If we're lucky, we'll have 8 people to sweep Perez tomorrow.

Logging out tonight I got the Update 3 download. I look forward to Striga Isle with an all-Rad team.

It's only the Rad Primary that's important. You can select different Secondaries if it matters. And the builds have a lot of room for variation.

This type of build could contribute significantly to a group, but granted not as much as a non-synergy oriented build. Maneuvers and Tactics max-slotted can be nice, and the usual Rad toggles work fine. Recall Friend and Grant Invis are group friendly. But the lack of slotting on attack powers would significantly limit soloing. And the lack of slotting END reducers on toggles would be a problem.

Here's an option. Make sure you slot AM with recharge and END Recovery. If there aren't enough Rad defenders for an 8 man team, fill it out with Blasters. They have the slotted attacks and do damage. A few debuffs soften the mobs up considerably.

But the real answer is... Use Global Chat in Update 3 to make sure you always have big teams and stacked buffs. And post messages like this on the boards to get lots of people in the SG, so you always have enough people to do at least one team at normal playing hours. And keep bumping your thread by posting relevant information.

Maybe start a flame war.

On that note, let me just say YOU'RE WRONG!!! I dare you to post a rebuttal!

I started putting together a big analysis on how to make the perfect team of Defenders and/or Controllers. The idea is that with the right mix, you get a team that buffs itself and debuffs mobs so much that it is unstoppable. After doing my analysis, I came to the conclusion that the perfect team has all Radiation Defender Primary powers. Controllers can be added after a few levels if they take the Radiation Secondary. Here’s why, assuming everyone starts as a Defender…

At level 2, everyone gets Accelerate Metabolism. Then everyone activates them at the same time. This gives everyone +200% damage, +240% recharge reduction, major END Recovery buff, major Run buff, and major status resistance. Note that this is Perma-AM because it recharges before it wears off.

At level 2, you can run through Atlas Park at high-speed one-shotting mobs at an amazing rate. At level 4 when you pick up your second attack, your can attack almost non-stop, as one attack recharges while the other is animating. If half the party takes Radiant Aura and the other half Radiation Infection, the mobs won’t hit much, and you’ve got healing covered. At level 2, city zones are a waste of time. Hit hazard and trial zones ASAP, and tear through them.

NOTE: You do NOT slot your attacks at all. There is no need.
NOTE: No one takes Hasten or Stamina, you don’t need them.

It gets better. At 6, those who can take AoE or Cone attacks do so, while others take Enervating Field. Minions are defeated instantly, so debuffs go on bosses. Single target attacks are only needed on Lts and Bosses.

Between levels 6-10, each person takes some of Maneuvers, Tactics, Enervating Field, Grant Invisibility, or Recall Friend. Enervating Field makes the mobs drop faster and hurt you less if they do hit. Grant Invisibility lets you run right up to mobs before attacking, so they don’t spread out. A Rad Controller with AoE Immobilize can do the same. You start going after level+4 mobs for the XP, and they still drop like flies.

By level 16, everyone takes Assault. Combined with AM, that gives +300% damage without slotting a single thing in your attack powers.

At 18 combat opens with a few Choking Clouds (Toggle:PBAoE Hold) and Enervating Fields before the mobs get slaughtered. 8 Choking Clouds will probably choke an AV when their status protection dips.

Monsters and AVs go down pretty quickly. They probably still hit despite the massive Defense buffs and To-Hit debuffs, but not for much due to Enervating Field. And that same field combined with +300% damage on rapidly cycling attacks is REAL punishing. By 20 everyone should have Radiant Aura for healing, just in case.

Time passes. People advance in levels REAL fast. Some people get bored, try something else, but then come back. 8 stacked AMs is like Crack on steroids.

Coast to 32. Every combat starts with a couple EM Pulses now.

Coast to 38. Every combat starts and immediately ends with a couple EM Pulses and level 38 AoE Extreme damage blasts.

Coast to 45. Start Hamidon Raids. Sniper Shot with 6 slotted range is real nice for Hamidon raids, and you’ll have the spare slots to do it. And since everyone in range of AM gets the buff, you’ll have a lot of friends. The fast recharge and damage bonus means you can increase the DPS of nearby blasters by a factor of about 4!!!

What powers do you skip in the Radiation Primary? No one needs Mutation. Defeat should be very rare, and Awakens should suffice. Everything but AVs and Monsters die too fast for Lingering Radiation to be useful, but you still might pick it up just for them. You don’t need the damage from Fallout, so you can skip that. (Unless you take melee types on a Hamidon raid. :-)

What powers do you skip in your Secondary? About half of them. You need the first 2 primary attacks, one or two AoEs, and the big blast at 38. Aim is completely useless, and big attacks are overkill. Sniper may be good for Hamidon raids.

What Power Pools do you take? Everyone needs Leadership. Some people need Concealment and some need Teleport, but a lot will probably take both. Some might take Flight and Group Fly. No one needs Speed or Fitness, or hardly anything else.

How do you slot your powers? That’s a really good question. You shouldn’t need to worry much about Endurance, Damage, Accuracy, or Recharge because those are all handled by other stacked buffs. That doesn’t leave much.

You don’t put ANY slots in attack powers. Use the free slot for damage before 16, and just in case you don’t get in a team of 8. Cone attacks could use a Cone Range Increase to make it larger.

Radiant Aura needs slots to be effective (6 recommended); it’s too small otherwise. Slot AM with recharge if you can’t get in 8 people teams all the time, just so it’s permanent. Maybe add Endurance Recovery if that buff isn’t big enough. Teleport can be 6 slotted with Range. You might as well slot Maneuvers and Tactics to full, since you probably won’t needs the slots for much of anything else. Those with Grant Invisibility may want to fully slot it for defense, see below.

What can kill this team? Anyone who can drop all of their toggles. Without Enervating Field, Maneuvers, and Radiation Infection, big groups of mobs can kill quickly. Fortunately, AM gives resistance to Sleep, Hold, and Disorient. Unfortunately, the team needs to stay together for Leadership buffs, so AoE status attacks hit most everyone. Grant Invisibility is a click power so it won’t get dropped, but it is high maintenance to constantly recast.


Time for some questions…
What did I miss?
What is wrong?
Are any controllers even needed?
Who has done this before?
How did it work out?
Is Running capped below SuperSpeed?
How effective is the status protection from AM?
What Defender Secondaries have the fastest animation times?

And an important one…
Would you make up a level 1 char to try this out?
If yes, look for Buffer Master, leader of the Buffer Overrun SG on Freedom.

I'm surprised I haven't seen any stats for the Defender Primary powers Radiation: Accelerate Metabolism and Kinetics: Speed Boost. Both of these are supposed to increase END recovery. AM can be made perma like Hasten, and SB can be recast as needed. They aren't toggles, but they're close enough. And it would be very handy to see their stats here and in the Toggle Cost Calculator.

AM lasts 2 minutes and is a level 2 power. It should be REAL easy to find someone to test it if you have a character with enough toggles. SB is level 12, but still pretty common.

[ QUOTE ]
Will I get to blast Santa & Rudolph come Christmas time?

[/ QUOTE ]

At the end of Beta they had a Rikti invasion. The huge Rikti ships flew across the sky, right above the maximum height you could fly. I got some screenshots somewhere. I don't think you could click on them, much less shoot them. Maybe Santa and his sleigh will do the same. Or little Elves will teleport in, give you a gift, and teleport away, saying, "You've been a good little super-hero." Or maybe we can get Rocks!

Maybe 9 huge oil storage tanks will catch fire and burn for 8 days around the same time.

Maybe the BP will host a huge pagan festival, and try to sacrifice all of Talos Island.