Tokyo

Originally Posted by vindizzLe

The PCP? What a fantastic acronym for a group.

Originally Posted by Xanatos

Yeah I saw. I liked it haha. We're gonna be hosting an RP wedding in RV at some point I think.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger

What are your global handles/recognizable names?

Ummm...

What server do you primarily play on?

(Standard dev answer - All of them!)

What server do you prmarily PvP on?

See above

What toons do you have to offer for 8v8 PvP?

Whatever is needed - prefer tank or troller.

Which of these toons is on Freedom?

I can magic one up anywhere

If any, what toons would you be willing to transfer to Freedom for a league?

See above

What do you consider your primary/optimal role in a team setting?

Moderating and banning...oh wait...no... harassing and annoying.

What do you consider your favorite role in a team setting?

See above...I love me some Grav/TA

Would you be willing to make a new toon and level it to 50?

Level? You mean you can't automagically level to 50?

Would you be willing to respec into a new build for a league?

Sure!

Briefly describe your experience in PvP. (If you were on other 8v8 teams list them here, any substantial experience here also)

I'm pretty terrible. Just ask Masque.

I'm just playing to have some fun and annoy the hell out of someone.

(OPTIONAL) (Only answer if you have a firm grasp of team rosters)

Name Captains you would prefer to play for, minimum of 3. If you pick 3 I can guarantee you a spot on one of the 3 you choose, if you don't then whoever drafts you will be final. Also when we get down to the last draftees, there might be instances where people have to be picked in order to keep teams even numbers, in this case the draft protection will not apply.

I'm good wherever will take me.

Originally Posted by Xanatos

Broken record yo

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

The above shouldn't be construed as my saying the devs are all bad, or bad at all. Its simply a fact that whatever other statements they made, they were either totally unaware, or unwilling, to take the steps necessary to prepare the game for PvP. Its not like any dev has ever denied that to me.

Its no secret that by MMO standards this game is *horribly* unbalanced. Ironically, that creates a rather unique environment for the PvE game that is, by many players' reckoning, appropriate to the genre so long as they keep it at least minimally under control. But that doesn't fly in PvP: its one thing for all of us players collectively to embarrassingly dominate a bunch of pixels, its quite another to create a game where one group of humans can embarrassingly dominate another bunch of humans in odd or broken ways. That presented a uniquely non-trivial problem for the devs: a majority of players got used to the wild unbalanced powers system prior to I4 and wouldn't accept strict rebalancing for PvP, but without it PvP quickly became a meta-game of best exploiting the broken aspects of the powers system, which is not something to be especially proud of.

Which actually points to the *fundamental* problem with PvP in CoH. You can't (or should not) retrofit PvP to an existing game because PvP is as much about expectations and social acceptance of PvP as it is about numbers and mechanics, and if people aren't innoculated to your PvP from the start its very hard to get them to fully accept it later on, especially when you have to start changing the game to make it work.

Under the best of circumstances the devs left themselves a problem I'm not sure *any* dev team on Earth could have dug themselves out of easily.

Originally Posted by Neuronia

Depite all the brokenness of IOs, powers and so on there is still an element of skill and practice involved. For example, in the defunct Champion ladder you had two teams that were fairly equal and had close games while the rest of the teams lagged behind. It's always going to be so because you can't "code" reflexes, locking, using the right attack chain for maximum damage output, evasion and so on. You *can* code so that attacks have a result (defeat of one character) and discourage evasion, but that really goes contrary to a lot of zone goals...where it's ineffecient and actually disastrous to engage another player if you are getting a Shivan or nukes.
.

Originally Posted by Xanatos

While I can see you hinting at me being elitist/a godmoder...I have to say you're spot on for the most part. I am looking at running RP events in the future that spotlight the two groups, but not to the extent of making everyone else observers/insignificant. (It does seem arrogant to even assume I'm capable of the latter!)

If anything the RP events will be: "[ERA] is behind [some bad stuff] and [The Challengers] [needs your help] stopping them"

Anyone who feels marginalised by this theme is more than welcome to make their own events. I feel having one clear villain & hero group as antagonists to the other makes it easy for people to jump in and get involved. So far it's worked.

Should also point out that ERA & The Challengers have rosters that are completely different. I'm one of the fews players who is actually in both teams. It would be unfair to refer to them as "our SG" or "our VG" because they each comprise of different groups of people. In truth they're just two cool groups that I thought would be great to run events with. There's no reason we couldn't run something similar to the "ERA of Challenge" at a later date with completely different groups/characters.

Hope that clears it up for you.

Originally Posted by Reiraku

Let's face it, PvP aside, the first year of this game had a lot of power decisions that today would make us look back and just shake our heads.

Originally Posted by Xanatos

I get that you don't think PVP is competitive. But the fact you go out of your way on a regular basis to point this out is very odd.

Originally Posted by SmokeSignal

Not as good as you make it out to be, sir. No attack, just my opinion. CoH actually has had the biggest potential, if unrealized, for amazing PvP of any game I've ever played. And that's saying something as I play just about anything that comes out. Though Eve was amazingly well made if you could stomach constant space content in a MMO.

Anyway.. tired thread is tired. This has been said and brought up so many times. You could really just sum up everything by reading Hemmingway's post a few up from here and skip the rest.

Originally Posted by Xanatos

If you genuinely believe you're bad at PVP...then why do you still take part in it?

Originally Posted by Giant2005

Warhammer.
It is in a unique situation where the endless trial is far superior to the actual game.

Originally Posted by Boomie

You can't possibly be the worst pvp'er on virtue tokyo, you're being to modest. I mean paix and terminal lad(crazy woman) ring a bell anyone.....

Originally Posted by SkylineGTR

Alright here's my contribution: PvP was a lot better when everything was unbalanced, there was no DR, no slow down, and Energy Transfer was still funny.

Originally Posted by Hemmingway

I did not tell you that you have no right to talk. I told you that you and your statements were ignorant, pretentious, asinine, contrived, and wrong. Based on this statement alone, I was warranted:



Ignorant as you are, you may not know that many of the (past and present) 'best' or most active PvPers are among the 'best' and most active PvEers. Personally, I did not get into PvP because I revel trash talking or farming noobs. I became a member of the PvP community because I enjoy playing this game and the PvE content has long since stopped entertaining me. I joined the PvP community after years of almost exclusively PvEing. After my short time participating in this games PvP I find myself empathizing with most all the sentiments and wishes of the rest of the PvP community.

I stated that you are not an invested member of the PvP community because it is obvious that you are ignorant to the current state of PvP and how it got there as well as ignorant of the people that participate in PvP. I did not tell you to shut up and go away, I told you to get it right next time you want to trash talk PvP and it's players.

You stated that the PvP in this game was not a significant part of this game. You seem to think that PvP is not a viable extension of the story based PvE in this game. Do you know the lore of the PvP zones? It speaks for itself. The reason people don't play it (as much as they would, or did) is because the mechanics are broken and have been ignored for years. PvP is part of the game that people payed for upon purchasing city of Heroes/Villains in the first place. Your subscription and mine also pay for the server resources that facilitate it.




Again you are wrong. Travel suppression helps melee to fight kiting ranged toons. It certainly is not the best way to help that situation, but it does help melee more than it helps ranged. Aside from that, it is not the case that range is in every case better than melee. You don't know a whole lot about PvP (obvious), so you do not know what a stalker, scrapper, brute, or tanker brings to the table in team based PvP.




Again, wrong. With i13, they made many changes that were not what the current PvP community wanted. They suggested many things to the Devs but were mostly ignored. Instead the Devs tried to cater to would-be PvPers among the rest of the community. They failed, as the mechanics they introduced were not fun for PvErs either. They also promised that they would continue to work on PvP with every issue following i13. That promise was then completely abandoned. So you still think that the animosity felt for the development team for what has happened (or not happened) to PvP is unwarranted? The Devs did plenty to earn the hostility that they have received. Some of it has certainly been out of line, and some understated. This is not so different to responses to nerfs or changes to PvE. Enhancement Diversification was not met with parties and parades either.

I am sure there are other ways I could correct or berate you, but this post is long enough.

tl;dr To say that PvP is not a relevant part of this game is offensive and ignorant. You do not have the knowledge to justify your claims.

Originally Posted by Xanatos

If this is true, then:

Stop trash talking people.

Stop commenting on PVP.

Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect

Just like the game died when the majority of the PvPers left?

Oh....wait....it's still here.

Sorry, this game does not live or die by the PvP population. That has been conclusively PROVEN already. Every single PvPer could up and leave right now and the game would not even notice.

Originally Posted by Xanatos

Surely if demonstrating it here is beneath them...then talking about it here should be beneath them too.

It just sounds Like Tokyo really cares what we think of him. Yes he's bad at this game, but ohmigosh please don't think that means he's a bad gamer! His e-reputation will be ruined!

Originally Posted by hemmingway3

However much neglect the devs have (definitely) given to the PvP in this game, I do not think you understand the quote from Positron that you are thinking about. He was saying that the Diminishing Returns system opens up options for developers when attempting to balance PvP. It does. The problem is they do not actually use the system in place or balance it or fix the bugs with the way the math works. The other problem is they have never made an effort to explain the way the system works to the player base.

Another concern is whether or not they are blowing smoke about plans to actually work on PvP. I think most PvP'rs are familiar with the other famous quote about how they would work on PvP with all the issues succeeding i13.

I am hopeful, but you won't catch me holding my breath.