The_SiXKillA

If they are the one trick pony ppl say they are, they can't be much good. If it's the same trick over and over and over. hide+stealth, sneak up, AS, run away like headless chicken. Can't be much fun.
And I have read in more than one stalker-thread, that the stalkers are no good in PvE. (And these are the ones arguing FOR the stalkers)

Edit: But this isn't the issue, sorry.

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Sure there are loads of stalkers in PvP zones, but how do you think they got to the respective lvls for the PvP zones? By playing the PvE game of course! So by that very same calculation, there *must* be at least as many, if not more, Stalkers playing PvE as there were/are playing PvP!

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Thank you J_Sus! And thank you, G_Zeus, for fleshing out my point for me. If stalkers are so crapola as some ppl in this thread want us to believe. Howcome so many people are playing them? I.E. Playing PvE to get XP to level up to lvl 20 (Hey! That rhymes!), so they can get into Sirens. Because, as you would have known if you'd been playing PvP, there is no xp for defeating players.

Call it the urge to have the last word, and it's pretty clear that I'm not the only one that has it.

I base my comments on personal experience, and what you are suggesting isn't working for me, and based on that, I'm guessing it doesn't work for other people too.

Another thing is that what I've suggested WOULDN'T ruin the Stalker AT like a nerf would. They'd still have an advantage over 90something % of the ppl. Problem is that you people aren't willing to give a centimeter of ground. You want all the advantages for yourself.

And I'm not suggesting these things because of the stalker AT, it's because of 95% of the PEOPLE that play the stalker AT. It's because it's WAY too easy to use for ganking, and THAT'S being done EVERY day. If stalkers sucked as much as you guys say, there wouldn't be so many people going through the trouble of lvl'ing one up to PvP levels.

Edit: To PowerNova, I use en/en, have bonesmasher and a couple other melee attacks, and I also have 2 acc SO's slotted in each attack.

Obot, how many times do I have to point out that Tactics + IR goggles DO NOT REVEAL STALKERS (at least stalkers that has both Stealth and Hide). And I've also said that in a team where more than one person had tactics running, I still couldn't see stalkers untill "ASSASSIN STRIKE" appeared over the other person's head. (the one thing I HAVE learned is not to stay still for more than half a nanosecond at a time. HE apparently, hadn't learned this.) This was also with IR-Goggles.

I think maybe QiSnake made the point I've been wanting to make all along. With the current setup a stalker has ALL the initiative ALL the time. I have to work like a madman 100% of the time I'm in a pvp zone not to be one-shotted by a stalker (And yet, the one-shotting is NOT the problem), but a stalker can just stumble [cencored] drunk up to most anyone and fumble their weapon into someones eye without them noticing. there's no EFFORT on their side of the fight.

Now, if there is only three powersets that's able to even SEE the stalker, there's something wrong. EVERY at should have the POTENTIAL to see stalkers, but at the COST of something else. Tactics + IR-goggles don't work, there's no point in arguing about it. I know, I've been trying for -many- hours. I have sacrificed a lot of things that would have made me much more über in pve, just to be able to PvP against stalkers, and everything has been wasted, because I STILL can't see them, whatever I do. THIS IS ALSO A FACT. I wouldn't be complaining if it wasn't.

And to G_Zeus: -I- am not crying out for a nerf, I've said this -many- times. I just know it'll come, so I'm making suggestions to how they can do it instead.
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Sarcasm and/or exaggeration also are tools of somebody who is unable to remain 'on the level' when engaded within adult debate

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No, it's the tool of someone who is speaking to children that don't pay any attention to what is being said, because you OBVIOUSLY DON'T.

BTW: Riddle me this, sweetypies, if stalkers AREN'T über in pvp, howcome there's so many of them? I can honestly say that I've seen three times as many stalkers as any other villain AT combined. MM/Cor/Dom I see maybe a couple pr. week, Brutes I see maybe a couple every coulpe of days, but every time I go into sirens, there's at least one, but more often there are 3-5 of them. "oooh! It'th becauth thalkerth are the only new AT apart from MathterMind."... Yeah. and still, in PvE there are hardly ANY stalkers. Hmmmm... I REALLY have to put my brain in a vice to work THIS ONE OUT!

LOL G_Zeus!!! Have you heard of sarcasm? Or exaggeration to underline a point? Both of these things are very good interpretations of my last post.

I know I said the previous post would be the last, I just couldn't help myself.

Edit: In any case, if what Mr Hobo said in his last post is true, Hide is getting the nerf I feared, and MY problem is moot, but the stalker's problem is not.

I am, at this very moment, reading one of the most recently updated threads on the US boards, and it's name is STALKERS and the same problem is taken up there.

Anyway. I'll stop posting, because fairness obviously comes in small doses in the human race. And anyway, like I've said before, the stalker-nerf WILL come, it's just a matter of time. All I'm doing is trying to find an alternative to this nerf that don't involve any lessening of the stalker skills, but since everyone here apparently WANT stalkers to be nerfed, critisize all you can. If you look at all my posts, not once have I said that the current setup should be gimped, I'm offering a solution to all those ppl who are sick and tired of the über stalker sneakieness.

If stalkers are to be the only AT that can see everyone without being seen by anyone else, why not make blasters the only AT that does damage, Defenders the only AT that can heal, controllers the only AT with controlling powers. Or put it another way, give blasters a 200% damage increase, controllers 100% chance of whatever effect they are trying to achieve, every defender heal 100% HP, and tanks and scrappers ACTUALLY invincible. (I haven't written the CoV equivalents, because I do give your intelligence some credit, and believe you can figure out where I'm going with this)

OK, I did actually offer a solution that removed something from the stalker, and that was the ability to stack hide and stealth. That a person can stand on completely flat ground in 200 meter radius on a sunny afternoon and not see a person coming sneaking up on them, even from the front, is a bit weird. This is called a "super power". What's so strange about having a "super power" that allow ppl to see hidden things??? If one is possible, surely, the other is too.

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But how do you know only 3-4% of players would take this 'trait'. I for one would expect just about every PvPer out there to take it.


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Because grabbing this power would ONLY be usefull against stalkers? not against ANYTHING else in the whole game apart from -maybe- ghosts in croatoa, which is a breeze to plow through anyway?
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The way it is now, every stalker CAN POTENTIALLY be totally invisible to everyone.

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Wrong-diddly-wrong-wrong.

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No, because I've TRIED everything that's been suggested to me, pluss a few other things my own little brain came up with.

Teaming to get buffs -on top of sacrificing TONS of other usefull things- just to be able to spot these guys is just silly.

It's truly incredible to me that ppl are in no way prepared to meet on the golden middle way. With the trait system, only the (maybe) 3-4% of the ppl that choose the perception trait will be able to see a stalker with stealth and hide, but they will have to stack that perception trait like mad to see stalkers that have the "sneaky" trait, and probably wont be able to see a stalker that has enhanced his sneakyness. I don't have a problem with not seeing stalkers that has had to sacrifice something in order to gain that level of un-see-ability. The way it is now, every stalker CAN POTENTIALLY be totally invisible to everyone. I think EVERYONE deserves an equal chance.

Would it be soooo saaaad for you guys if 4% of the hero population had an even chance against you? Oh no!!! Now you can't sit on Hero Square(TM) and eat your lunch! What about me as a blaster? I can NEVER (EVER) stay still for anything more than 2 seconds for fear of a sneaky bugger one-shotting me. I do not think this is fair.

Edit: My biggest problem is that all you have to do to be totally invisible to everyone is to choose the stealth pool power and nothing I do will counter that. I got tactics to be able to see you better (which I don't in any case) and stealth for the tiny tiny defensive bonus it gives so I won't get one-shotted -every single time-. I have a travel pool power like everyone else and I have fitness for stamina to be able to fight with tactics, stealth AND the travel power active. This is ALL to be a veeery small amount safer from stalkers, and it STILL isn't enough. Where as stalkers are free to do as they like as long as they get stealth. Again. NOT FAIR.

So you actually think it's FAIR that EVERY SINGLE stalker in the WHOLE GAME can COMPLETELY undetected by ANYONE (no matter what powers they chose) sneak up on ppl and ONESHOT 3/5s of the hero population, and twoshot the rest?

With more than 2 stalkers in a zone this will (and DOES) create a SIGNIFICANT advantage to the villains. Because where there's one stalker, you will more often than not find at least 4-5.

Edit: And I've been trying SO hard to remain objective here... Sorry about this post.

Again with not reading my posts. I already said I've tried every tactic that's been offered to me, most of the time I use several at the same time, and they STILL don't work. Do you think I'd go through all this trouble if I'd found a solution? I've been on teams where at least one other person apart from me had tactics, I used IR-Goggles, and popped a medium yellow at that one half little second where you see the little bugger, and still he vanishes before my very eyes. even though I'm practicly standing on top of him. What, does En/en blasters have some as of yet unheard of Perception dysfunction? In that case I want it to be named The Sixkilla Disorder, because I got it like a [censored].

What I tell you are FACT, I wouldn't spend hours arguing my case if it wasn't true. like I said repeatedly, I don't want AT's nerfed, I want AT's to be evened out. And (in fear of blowing my own horn) the trait system would quite elegantly do just this.

I'm sorry for turning this into another "anti stalker thread", but the stalker issues is apparently the only thing ppl are ready to comment on.

What everyone else must understand, is that stalkers are only afraid they are going to lose their advantage over everyone else. If it hadn't been a problem, the boards WOULDN'T be full of "nerf ze stalkers" threads.
I'm trying to come up with an idea to even out the current issues WITHOUT nerfing stalkers. I don't want stalkers to be underdogs, because that lessens the joy of killing them and increases the embarrasment of being defeated by them. I'm trying to give everyone a fair chance. but OF COURSE the pvp'ing stalkers don't want to listen. they are the one with the advantage. OF COURSE they don't see the problem. And it's not just on the EU boards this problem is being posted an masse, it's ALL OVER the US boards too. Why? Because there IS a problem.

Anyways, accolades are removed when exemped, as do -any other power- that is earned after the said level restriction. Anyway, the Trait system isn't just there to balance AT's against each other, it's there to further give your character a unique feel. I know you get some super-special (EXTREME DUDE!) powers after level 40something, but that don't help in a lvl 30 pvp zone, and the powers you get to choose from are in any case not available to everyone.

You don't think the Trait system is better than a nerf that's going to affect EVERY stalker, and most likely ONLY stalkers? I don't mind the 1 shot issue either, as long as I have the CHOICE to be able to spot them before they kill me, something I cannot do at this time, and that is the reason I get PO'd about it.

I'm not trying to get stalkers "nerfed", I'm trying to solve a problem without them being nerfed, because nerfed they WILL be if something all new isn't implemented. I know I'm repeating myself, but some of you people seem intent on not reading my posts before flaming them.

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Except your suggestions have left the Stalkers with nothing - sneaking up and one shotting is all they have, if they don't have that they might aswell not bother coming into a PvP zone, since they have nothing going for them.

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No Mr. Hobo, I have not "left them with nothing". I have given them a weakness like -every other AT has-.

Like my Trait idea, that in the course of the game, you get to chose two things your toon is good at, one of the choises is increased perception (and like all the others) with the option to enhance. If you chose this instead of any of the other, like... 20 traits, you sacrifice something else. And as a stalker OF COURSE you can choose to get better at stealthy movement. or more hp, or more damage, or more resistance to hold/sleep, or faster end recovery. If you chose one of these you can't have any of the others. I can't see ANY WAY this is unfair to stalkers, as perhaps 2% of the ppl will chose the one that's bad for stalkers. If it's unfair to stalkers, then it's unfair to controllers, corruptors, blasters, brutes... well. you get it. Every person has a strength, but every person has several potential weaknesses. But of course, I've thought about this for a whole 2 minutes, so there are lots that must be done. like exclude hp/end recovery for Regen powersets, and such, but the finer points isn't really my job to hatch out.
And in any case. this is only one of the ideas I've put out as a solution, but this will solve many other issues as well. (like blasters/corruptors/controllers/defenders lack of hp... IF THEY CHOOSE TO.)

To Obot, tell me then, how to spot you sneaky laser-humpers, because I've tried every other tip I've gotten here on the boards (often many together), and nothing has worked against stealth and hide. Maybe you guys have yet another trick up your sleeve that I don't know about. Maybe it's just me that don't look at the screen from the correct angle, or I'm just an imbecile. (I don't look completely away from the latter suggestion, but I can actually see every other orange name that bounce across my screen, so you do the math.)

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A good player can counter even the best stalkers.

[/ QUOTE ] Trust me on this, with Tactics, IR-Goggles and a medium yellow pill I couldn't see 4 out of 5 stalkers in the zone (at the time I tried). In one case, I was hovering right above one of them (I know he was there, because he was my bounty and the waypoint updated two-three times while I was there, looking straight at him.)
And howcome I miss some stalkers with every attack I have, when I have two acc SO's in each and I have just popped a yellow and buildup?
I don't think ANYONE should be completely safe in a PvP zone. SPECIALLY when it only counts for ONE AT.
I wouldn't cry if stalkers got some new bonus, like more hp, bigger damage while un-hidden or whatever it is. My point is that with stealth the stalker is totally undetectable by anyone who don't have devices and targeting drone (or a 4+ person team where everyone has tactics and stays within eachothers area of effect). And that is a WAY too narrow weakness. I as a blaster have weakness to most anything anyone cares to throw at me. I have NO resistances, not much more hp than stalkers, and apart from the tiny bonus given by stealth NO defense. We can of course use Manouvers, but with an active travel power, it is impossible to run along with something. All we have is a miniscule amount more damage than others. But as I have been told repeatedly in-game, scrappers and brutes (and in one case I was told) tanks can apparently "easily" match that, and they still have (I don't know the numbers here but bare with me) twice the hp AND resistances/defenses to boot.
But this isn't about blasters, and I'm not asking for any increase in either damage or hp or anything else. I'm asking for some fair way of countering the stealth abilities of a stalker. And I've come up with MANY suggestions to this, that is both fair and easily implementable. But of course, since ppl choose stalkers because they do have this unfair advantage over everyone else, the same said stalker players argue heavily against them all. And my suggestions HAVE been VERY FAIR.

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If you want stalkers to stand in front of you letting you hit them, you'll need to petition NCSoft to turn them all into scrappers.

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I see what you are saying, but in all honesty, I've had my butt handed to me by a stalker who missed his AS. Mostly because his defense was incredible.(Yes, this has only happened ONCE in well over 10 hours in Sirens, because EVERY OTHER stalker that misses me with their AS runs away promptly afterwards) And insane defense is something they also have going for them. What blasters have is slightly higher damage for bread'n'butter attacks, but not so much that it's their obvious advantage. Stalkers obvious advantages is the ability to stack Hide with Stealth, their INSANE assassin strike AND very very high defense.

If I'd have any say in this matter, I'd leave their defense as it is, AS as it is, and add a parameter to hide that made it either impossible to use stealth with hide, or something they had to sacrifice to be able to use them both together. I have used 2 pool power sets just to be able to protect myself somewhat against stalkers and still it's not enough -by far-. Stalkers can (almost) NEVER have a fair fight, because against 90% of the hero population, they have an unfair advantage that it's impossible for us to overcome.

Also, there is Whining, and there is Taunting the Enemy. They can seem similar, but they have their characteristics.

Well. my explanation is that all energy attacks proc twice, and very hard, so they quickly build up rage, then terrorize me, so I can't fight back then kick my bum. quite clever actually. :P but I may be wrong.

Off Topic (sry but you asked. )
I have three damage and two acc SO's in each attack,pluss one disorient on Bone Smasher. energy punch or whatever it's called is only one acc and one disorient SO. Give or take (writing on bad memory.)

Blaster:
Love - Corruptors (cuz the damage I do forces them to heal rather than attack), Stalkers without Hide AND stealth (these go down pretty quick as long as they don't have TP), Brutes without Fear Terrorize, any MM except Merc.

Hate - Ppl who think Villains are 'underdogs' , teams full of stalkers that hunt solo players and that you don't get Rep for killing a player you have only fought but not killed earlier.

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You're talking about your Blaster right? And you're afraid of Brutes? And you're */Energy aren't you?

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I'm en/en blaster. I have Bonesmasher and energy punch. I still can't take down a -decent- brute. reason? The disorient don't hit BY FAR often enough. In any case, most brutes I've fought have fear/terrorize (don't know exactly what it's called), and even with Assault (Res Fear) I get hit every time fear/terrorize is recharged (this is with 3 slotted defense in stealth, dunno if this has any effect on fear/terrorize, but felt I should add it.)

I do agree that Hide should take longer to reactivate. A stalker with TP is nigh impossible to follow. Why should one AT be COMPLETELY safe as long as the player doesn't attack? (and trust me, against good stalker pvp builds, not even Tactics AND a couple Yellow inspirations have ANY effect. IR-goggles can't be taken into the consideration, as it's a temp power you'r only lucky to be able to buy.)

BUT, and here is the crux (as they say), of the problem. The problem with PvP isn't specific AT's, it's not even specific builds, and it sure as heck isn't TP. -IT'S THE PLAYERS!- It's the griefers and the gankers. It's more often than not the flamers from the boards, that break out an AT and a build that many people consider overpowered in the first place, and team up with OTHERS of like minds, and they prey on the players that want to play the game as intended.

Way too often it's happened to me that I'm happily cruising around Sirens, only to have 3-5 (Yes, THREE to FIVE) stalkers try and AS me at the same times. Coincidence? I think not.

Also, many ppl playing stalkers are COWARDS by nature. I almost can't count the times where I've spent a minute or two fighting a Brute, I am down to around half health and so is the brute, then all of a sudden ASSASSIN STRIKE is printed over my head in large, red and above all unfriendly letters, and I wake up dead.
Now call me old fashioned, but I like to be fair when playing against other players, because I like this game, so I like the people playing it to have fun so they'll stay with the game for longer. I don't (usually) interfere with 1on1 battles, and I don't team up to hunt solo players. I'm about to break these personal rules, because it seems I'm the only one that has them.

Yes, I say again. It's not the GAME that breaks PvP, it's the PLAYERS that can't seem to fight fair if it depended on the life of their grandmother. It's impossible to make a game that forces EVERYONE to play fair, and still be entertaining. And it's impossible to enforce in-game unwritten rules as to player behaviour, because there will always be idiots who ruin the game for everyone else. (I feel the same way about flamers on the boards, but there's no solution to them either, except re-parenting)


And I'm putting this on the bottom of the post, just to see how many reads it before they start with the name-calling.
I don't want AS nerfed, and if Hide don't get a longer re-hide timer I'm not shedding any tears. I like the game the way it is, but because of the way Stalkers are being played, something should be done, and this is the least "nerfing" solution.

Here's how I've built my Nrg/Nrg blapper up untill lvl 30.
(pay no attention to the enhancement placing as it is most likely not optimal, and certainly not the way I have them in game)

Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Power Blast /Acc,Dmg,Acc,Dmg,EndRdx,Dmg
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Power Thrust /Acc,Acc
Slot[03] Level 2 : Power Bolt /Acc,Dmg,Acc,Dmg,EndRdx,Dmg
Slot[04] Level 4 : Build Up /HitBuf,HitBuf,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[05] Level 6 : Power Burst /Dmg,Acc,Dmg,Acc,EndRdx,Dmg
Slot[06] Level 8 : Hover /Empty
Slot[07] Level 10 : Bone Smasher /Dmg,Acc,Dsrnt,Acc,EndRdx
Slot[08] Level 12 : Swift /Run,Run,Run
Slot[09] Level 14 : Fly /EndRdx,EndRdx,Jump,Jump
Slot[10] Level 16 : Health /Heal,Heal,Heal
Slot[11] Level 18 : Stealth /DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Slot[12] Level 20 : Assault /EndRdx,EndRdx,EndRdx,EndRdx
Slot[13] Level 22 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[14] Level 24 : Tactics /EndRdx,HitBuf,EndRdx,EndRdx,HitBuf,HitBuf
Slot[15] Level 26 : Explosive Blast /Acc,Dmg,Acc,Dmg,EndRdx,EndRdx
Slot[16] Level 28 : Hurdle /Empty
Slot[17] Level 30 : Invisibility /Empty

Another thing is, why do ppl moan so much about knockback? If a target is knocked out of your range, the target is no longer your responsibility, and you should find a target that needs your attention. I know that with this build, I can be trusted to take out +1 (maybe even +2) bosses on my own. And more often than not, within the first 10 seconds of the fight, and this is largely because of knockback, if they can't stand up and fight.. they.. uhm.. can't stand up and.. eeh. fight.. yeah.