The_Masque
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Originally Posted by Casual_Player
I'm genuinely curious as to why this thread (and the thread it spawned from) is here in General and not in the PvP Forum.
Has that forum finally died? That's what I was predicting when the forum ghettoization contracted PvP down to its last gasp.
Or is this some attempt at dragging Freems and Preems into a PvP discussion? Anything that increased the numbers would be good, I suppose.
I can't speak to why the original post popped up, I believe Z mentioned something or did something, he does love to get shot at in pvp zones, while changing into the golden roller or some other crazy thing.
I somewhat stated why I started this thread:
I will eloborate, if I posted in B.R.A's thread, honestly, my post would have been read by some, but for the most part people read the 1st post then maybe the 1st page... then skip to the end (or at least that is what I do).Quote:The reason why I started a new thread was I didn't want this to be lost in the flood of "yeah I13 killed PvP".
If you wanted to know why people aren't pvp, ask someone who has been asking that question for the last 3 years.
It really irks (is that a real word Uber?) me when people say that pre i13 pvp was great and we should go back to it. It really wasn't great. Is post i13 better, I really don't know. I think the arena is great, much better now than pre-i13. I love the mez changes. Its a hard call. So much good, so much terrible.
So I figured I have always been meaning to post my feelings about blaming the devs and castle and saying i13 was the cause of all evil. So why not now.
I know my stance is not a popular one. It goes against the current dogma of CoX, but honestly, if you look back at what really went down and if you were around back then, its the truth (or its the truth as I see it).
As far as why here rather than the PvP forums. Again I can't answer for B.R.A. but I posted here, for 2 reasons:
1) to answer the question while trying to debunk some of the myths, and rumors about i13.
2)Lets be honest, if I wanted to reach a targeted audience I had to go here. The original post was here. If I posted on the pvp forums, the pvpers would read it and go... ok, thanks, now where is my build for xxx/xxx and who starting the next league? If I post here, at least I can reach those people who believe some of those ideas that I think are false.
I don't think I've typed as much as I have in the last two days since I was in college.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
I13 was awful, and I'm not talking just the PvP changes. I13 introduced many annoyances, but the one most relevant to PvP is that it removed all mobility between PvE and PvP.
PvE builds became garbage in PvP, even against PvE targets within PvP zones, even with multiple PvEers trying to take on a single PvPer. Likewise, most I13 compliant PvP builds became garbage in PvE. And almost nobody bothered with I13's dual build band-aid to bridge the widened gap. Meawhile, the promise of the I13 PvP changes never materialized: The number and variety of viable PvP builds at the top did not increase.
Case in point, running WWD7 with a guy I met in Recluse's Victory once. Nice guy, but as a blaster with nothing but single-target attacks I really wish he'd availed himself of that dual build feature. My claws scrapper felt like the real blaster on the team. On the flip side, in PvP, one of his blaster could probably solo five of my scrapper, because AoE attacks do nothing. Doesn't take a sociology degree to see why we mostly travel in different circles.
Is there some benefit to pretending I13 wasn't bad, that I'm missing? I mean, sure, it's more important to look to the future than to look to the past, but it's also important to learn from mistakes.
I never said I love the changes that came with I13. I said, pre-i13 pvp wasn't exactly as super terrific happy fun ball as some people believe. There is always this ongoing mantra "roll back pvp to pre-i13... roll back pvp to pre-i13.
Ask people who really pvp'ed back then. It wasn't exactly fun to find a perma mind/fire and spend the two minutes (or so) clicking all your breakfrees then the next 2 minutes standing there holding your head while they slowly burnt you into ashes. TK was broken (still is pretty bad). With a good healer it was nearly impossible to die. Everyone rolled forts and nightwidows and ran around RV at will.
Travel supression blows. Period. There is a reason most of us turn it off when we fight in the arena. It isn't fun. However, my point was blaming the devs or Castle for it, really isn't fair, when the suggestion for Travel supression really came from *US* the players. Players (I'm not even going to say PvPers) wanted to stop people from running away from them before they were defeated. The suggestion was brought up that perhaps supressing their travel while they were attacked would be viable. Horrible idea. I have always said I would support tethering rather than TS. Melee attacks would cause TS, not ranged attacks.
Heal Decay sucks. Again, there is a reason we turn it off. Its too easily abused. You don't like someone you switch to their side... and start healing them. Soon they can't even pop a green to get some HP back. HD also made "healers" into buffers, not a lot of fun there. Incandescence (destiny) has somewhat fixed heal decay, but it remains to be seen if its a bug or working as intended.
New Mez rules- I like them. 2-4 seconds is plently long enough to help a stalker get off an AS, or for a melee toon to hustle its <pancake> rearend over to the target to hit it. Honestly, anyone who thinks controllers and doms are not viable in pvp, hasn't really been PvPing. ATs are more than just their primary and saying /posion doesn't mean a controller is viable is fooling themself. Thats like saying in PvP tanks fight by spaming taunt and hoping their chance for psi damage proc kills something.
DR-Im on the fence- I get that it was suppose to help lower the bar for players to try PvP. I just don't think it worked.
Inherent resists- not a fan, but I get why they were put in place. As much as people wanted to kill other targets, they also didn't want to die *that* fast on their squishy characters. I'm just not a fan.
As far as the part about a PvP build on a tf/sf/mission. I have played my PvP toons on many of these and have almost never had anyone complain. To be honest with the exception of maybe the prisioner escape portion of BAF, most of the new content focuses on killing hard targets which is 100% single target. Siege, NS, Maurader, That thing at the end of the UGT, Rulu-wade... you know what I mean? I do have *an* aoe with judgement and I have lore pets, so like I said I rarely get called out for not assisting the team. -
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
Yes, I do *not* mean that. Anyone who thinks that is what "balance" means outside of anything much more complex than tic-tac-toe is using the word incorrectly.
This is much closer to the definition appropriate to a MMO or actually a lot of FPSes that introduce "classes" of character someone can play.
You offset the absence of certain capabilities with the presence of other capabilities. All capabilities do not have to be equal. Importantly, in anything designed where classes of character can fight others cooperatively, any given class vs class face-off does not have to be a fair fight. However, you can create intricate webs of balance: for example, someone who's disadvantaged against one foe might be advantaged against a different foe or be able to provide advantage to an ally beyond their own DPS contribution.
Edit: AR has nothing to do with that combination.
The snarky side of me wants to respond with:
"Sorry oh keeper of words on CoX, please teach me what your opinion of every word is so that we lowly posters can speak as you do".
However, to be perfectly honest, the word "balance" has been tossed around in discussions about PvP.
People have said there was a Red Vs. Blue imbalance due to the high range damage that blasters had over any type of red character.
People have said that there is an imbalance in powers between various power sets within a specific AT- see Kinetic Melee discussions.
People have used the word "balance" when talking about "why can't I bring my xxx and beat your yyy, clearly the game is broken because it lacks balance between the various power sets/ATs"
So if I am addressing the various rumors/myths/fallacies about pre i13 vs post i13 pvp, I think my usage of the word "balance" is correct, and perhaps the word doesn't mean what you think it means. Just because YOU view the term in a specific way does not mean that my addressing these myths is using the term incorrectly.
Go back to the original post you quoted of mine, I was responding to someone who said its nearly impossible for a controller to beat a tank or a brute. Which of course is completely false, it was false pre i13 and its still false post i13.
I said that the desire to have "balance" between all ATs is ridiculous because at the point where anything can beat anything the game becomes less about skill/knowledge and more about flipping a coin.
You seemed to take offense to my usage of the word balance. That is your right, however, are you knowledgeable about the history of PvP and the complaints/suggestions about it?
When asked "do you pvp" this was your response:
Quote:
Nope. I don't. I didn't much before I13, but I had a bunch of friends who did quite actively who I would sometimes join in with. I13 drove them all away.
Again, feeding the mythology that I13 chased all the PvPers away- but we will come back to that.
I just am not sure that someone who admittedly does not pvp, nor was ever really active would be able to offer insight into how something is or isn't working.
I'm sure you have an extensive pvp career in other games which you will toute as proof of your superior knowledge, however you .. don't..even...PvP..here. So is your knowledge of pre I13 PvP from first hand knowledge or just dicussions with these *friends* who abandoned you?
You also go on to state that:
Quote:Everything doesn't need to be equal. It just all needs to be useful somewhere. And preferably, there's nothing that is always useful everywhere.
I would offer that, these circumstances already exist in CoX PvP. Lets say you want to play a blaster, and everyone says OMG YOU CAN ONLY PLAY FIRE BLAST U NOOB. Honestly, that has never been true (pre or post i13).
You want to debuff your opponents to-hit- Play a dark blaster.
You want to debuff your opponents defense- play a rad blaster.
You want to debuff your opponents Resist- Play a sonic blaster.
You want to slot Kb procs and RP with a gun- Play a AR blaster.
You want to play lvl 5 PvP- Play an Archery blaster.
There are situations where ANYTHING can excel.
You kind of confuse me a bit with your feelings about skill in the game.
Quote:You can make anything viable with enough skill" is completely subjective hogwash and nothing but a cop-out. If something is so much not competitive for some form of play such that no one plays it except people who don't know better, it's not viable. If it's only played by people who are gods among gamers just to break even in performance with Jow Blow on some other powerset, it can be balanced better.
Yet you go on to state:
Quote:Knowing the correct reaction in a given circumstance and executing that reaction faster than an opponent does is the same thing distinguishes excellent sports figures and excellent players of video games. There is certainly an immense difference in physical conditioning between, say, a skilled basketball or tennis player and a skilled video game player, but the fundamental mental and physical capabilities that make one good also make the other good. A player of either game with superior situational awareness and reflexes has more "skill", by definition. I honestly cannot conceive how you could think this does not exist.
So, you admit there is a 'skill' aspect to this game, yet its hogwash to state that it plays part in making an AT or powerset viable. If skill shouldn't be part of making a character viable in PvP then again arent we back to competitive coin flipping?
Ok, before this wall of text becomes the great wall of text, lets go back to your friends who left because of i13 changes.
You mention Con. You realize that post i13 he was still around, pvping right? He even went so far as to start up a team for a test league that we were never able to get off the ground. So who exactly were these friends of yours that left CoH directly due to I13?
I have seen a lot of PvPers leave, some say "I really hate TS/HD/DR" They don't really say I hated the I13 changes. I think people who really PvPed back then KNOW that PvP wasn't exactly working the greatest either. The I13 changes were just too drastic and heavy handed. Some people rage quit, some of those people came back. In fact every league we have, we see people coming back to this game (even if its just for that league). We see people who claim that they are "quitting for life!" but they are still here throwing mental darts rather than using the force or commanding a spaceship or playing some comic book universe online.
I just think the mass exodus of PvPers post I13 that everyone believes happened sort of happened but not to the extent that everyone thinks. As I said before, this games population has decreased that along with free transfers lead to most PvP zones being ghost towns (but look at the hollows on most servers, its pretty much tumble weeds there as well). If the zones are empty and someone ISNT willing to transfer off their home server, then pretty much they will have zero chances of PvPing (in zone) so they eventually either quit or find another aspect of the game that they enjoy.
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On another sidenote:
One of the biggest detriments to people trying/enjoying PvP is that typically their first or only experience occurs in Zone PvP.
Zone PvP is a pretty horrible way to start/learn/experience PvP in my opinion. First off, the sides are almost never even. I can't remember the last time I saw a zone where the fighting was back and forth. Typically, one side is dominating and the other side is forced to fight out of its base without much success.
Why does this occur, unfortunately, there are a lot of players who enjoy *winning* so if one side is dominating they will often play/switch to that side. This continues on until, finally a group of people say "this is dumb, lets switch".
Zone PvP also has the most frustrations therefore the most broadcast fighting. People get upset that someone got "their kill" or is "droning" or "won't leave the base". This really makes Zone PvP a pretty toxic place for someone who is just trying PvP for the first time.
Personally, I enjoy team based arena PvP more than any other type of PvP in this game. For the 1st timer it is pretty overwhelming to watch or play on a team with other pvpers but I think its possibly the best way to see what works and what doesn't work in PvP. Its also more "team" focused like the game is, so people can relate to their roles perhaps a little easier.
Duels can be a fun way for people to try PvP the unfortunate thing here is that you really need a great build (not just a good build) to win in a duel. Movement issues or lack of knowing where to hide/evade on maps can be a huge downfall. So while dueling can be a fun/exciting way to try PvP it can also be frustrating.
Also, if anyone hasn't, they should try talking to a PvPer about questions they have. I honestly, have found that the majority of the time they are more than willing to help people with builds, questions, tactics and such. -
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
Again, "balance" does not mean what you seem to think it means. In fact, it is completely possible to make a powerset do something that makes it desirable. AR need not do as much single-target DPS as Fire Blast, but it should do something that makes people want to use it instead. If it is considered suck-tastic in all functional regards, then something is, in fact, wrong with it, and it should be changed.
Is balance going to be perfect, down to the decimal point? Of course not, especially when contrasting capabilities that do not relate directly. If one powerset does strong debuffs or mezzes and another does straight DPS, you're always going to have to define specific and probably conditions under which to compare them. But if your game system is such that debuffs rarely have practical value, then no one is going to value debuffing, and that set needs change.
Any less intent than that is being lazy. Intent and reality don't always match, but if the intent is never there, the reality almost certainly won't be.
"You can make anything viable with enough skill" is completely subjective hogwash and nothing but a cop-out. If something is so much not competitive for some form of play such that no one plays it except people who don't know better, it's not viable. If it's only played by people who are gods among gamers just to break even in performance with Jow Blow on some other powerset, it can be balanced better.
What does "balance" mean to you, since my view of it is so off. Do you *not* mean that you believe that everything should be equal?
bal·ance
/ˈbæləns/ Show Spelled [bal-uhns] Show IPA noun, verb, bal·anced, bal·anc·ing.
noun 1. a state of equilibrium or equipoise; equal distribution of weight, amount, etc.
2. something used to produce equilibrium; counterpoise.
3. mental steadiness or emotional stability; habit of calm behavior, judgment, etc.
4. a state of bodily equilibrium: He lost his balance and fell down the stairs.
5. an instrument for determining weight, typically by the equilibrium of a bar with a fulcrum at the center, from each end of which is suspended a scale or pan, one holding an object of known weight, and the other holding the object to be weighed.
I think that we are talking about #1- correct?
You seem to want balance in the desirability of a every power set to be equal (in some situations). This is probably as true in PvP as it is in PvE.
I have seen more Trick Arrows played in PvP than I have in PvE. I have also seen more poisons played in PvP than I have in PvE. If we go as far as electric blasters and AR blasters, yes you do see them in PvE and you may run into a few in PvP but they are both few and far between. Again I think it boils down to the population size, time, and effort.
When there were a lot more people PvPing you would find players who made AR/devices work, tp foe onto landmines worked wonders. I saw people running ele/mental blasters as pseudo-sappers.
I guess I just don't think that the PvP aspect of the game is as broken as you believe it to be. The same phenomenon, occurs in the PvE aspect of this game everyday. There isn't a 'balance' of powersets across the ATs. People have found that some powersets seem to perform higher or are more synergistic together these power sets or choices become "fotm". The same is true in PvP.
Honestly, it was this type of call for "balance" that lead to the current state of pvp damage being partially calculated based on animation time. If anything damage maybe more balanced in PvP than PvE (maybe). -
Quote:Originally Posted by Flying_Carcass
Arenas are instances. But you probably are referring to being able to queue up for a PvP event and be placed on a team in a manner similar to LFG or battlegrounds in other games. I think such a system would go a long way towards getting some PvP action going... as of now the system-created PvP events don't and have never worked.
I can think of a few other reasons PvP is unpopular.
PvP zones are too big; often times half the battle is actually finding the battle.
The only objective is to kill the other player, which is a fine objective, but having a variety of PvP modes (such as capture points, king of the hill, capture the flag, ect) would add more tactical elements to the battle.
Currently, there is no reason to PvP if you wish to complete PvP zone objectives, such as collecting nukes or shivans (in fact, its best to avoid PvP if you want to be successful at such tasks).
In regards to the zones, if one side has more people than the other, the larger side has a major advantage. Getting camped in the Sirens Call hospital is not fun. PvP zones should also have a queuing mechanism to even out the zone populations... maybe have a scheduled battle over some objective every few hours or so...
Lastly, there should be cross-server PvP (to increase the PvP player pool).
Yes, I think when we all did the suggestions, the idea we were thinking of for instanced PvP was a cross-server or "team tper" type of instance. So the sides would be equal (in number). -
Quote:Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Replace the #'s with periods, it doesn't work otherwise.
Interesting read, you forgot one though:
7) Caustic attitude on the forums from pvp'ers towards non pvp'ers.
Reposted the link. Thanks, I typed up the wall of text on a word program and it copied over all messed up.
Caustic attitudes of PvPers... idk... man. I see a lot of it going the other way as well. Also, not ALL PvPers act that way. I don't think I have ever flamed a PvEr. -
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
This is wrong on a scale so epic I can't even see it all from where I'm standing.
Ask anyone who does serious game design and I promise you that is not even close to what they will tell you.
Said another way: "You keep using that word (balance). I do not think it means what you think it means."
Balance has always been a rallying cry for people wanting to *fix* PvP.
People want their flying AR/devices to perform at the same level as a fire/em blaster. That is doesn't work. It doesn't work in PvE it doesn't work in PvP.
You *can* make almost anything a viable PvPer- with the right build and skill. However, you will still perform better if you had a fotm with the right build. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Party_Kake
If you could do, in pvp, what you do, in mayhem missions, it would be hella awesome.
I think the biggest barrier to pvp is that the pve in this game is just so much better at fostering social activity. in pvp, you go up against another player, that guy could very well be 6 to 8 times as powerful as you. He or she could be capable of soloing stuff ten times as tough as you without taking damage. When people build pvp characters, it's not to be fair. It's to be custom-built to destroy something without any chance of failure.
the idea of a fair fight is just alien to this game. How could you possibly arrange it?
Funny thing is, back when the arena was broken you would occasionally zone into players missions.
As far as fair fights, I don't think in any player vs player situation in any game its a fair fight. Sad thing to say but true. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Apples and oranges. Besides, just because some things in the game can be improved on, doesn't mean that they all can, or even should be.
While player characters are arguably well balanced against the game's environment, it's pretty clear that they're rather imbalanced against each other and always have been. How well and how often could a Controller win against a Tank or a Brute on an otherwise even playing field? Even if they're both tricked out with IOs, accolades, set bonuses and Incarnate abilities. I'm sure someone out there's crunched the numbers already!
Besides that, it's easy to say that it could be improved on just because other parts of the game were improved on. But the devil's always in the details. Exactly how is it supposed to be improved? The devs have already made several attempts to improve it and those have all pretty much failed. What more could they do? Give all PCs in PvP zones an equal number of hitpoints? I don't know!
Controllers can beat tanks/brute almost 100% of the time. /poison is a beast.
There is no such thing as balance in any competitive game. If there was there would no point in playing.
If there was a 50/50 chance of me winning in a fight no matter what, then why would I even want to compete.
There is a reason there is no competitve coin flipping league.
In PvE characters are certainly not balanced. If so why do do you hear people asking for corrs/defenders over PBs/WSs.
As far as improving pvp.
There should be some explanation of what happens to your stats in PvP, as well as your powers. Basically a tutorial or something to explain why mez always hits, and why BFs don't work... etc.
Remove TS- replace it with tethering. Melee attacks will TS you, but ranged attacks wont.
Strict monitoring of zones for code of conduct violations. Remove the <pancakes> and maybe the enviroment would be more conducive for the more sensitive players.
Paragon Studio supported PvP events. They are already doing build threads and costume contests. They can run/host a pvp event if they wanted. I'm sure Z would love to host.
I don't think there is anything fundamentally broken with PvP in this game. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
Um... that logic doesn't follow through. There isn't anything stopping you from just posting up this info in my thread. People being incorrect about something on the internet certainly doesn't disable the post button or anything.
I say this because when two people make two competing threads, the flow of the arguments in them go at different rates, and it gets really messy about who is keeping track of what is said where and when. It's easier just to keep everything in one spot. That way, you can have a discussion without it turning into thread warfare.
The reason why I started a new thread was I didn't want this to be lost in the flood of "yeah I13 killed PvP".
If you wanted to know why people aren't pvp, ask someone who has been asking that question for the last 3 years. -
I'm not PvPing because there isn't anyone around to PvP.
Why start a new thread?
Because in my opinion, the other thread posted by Blood Red Arachnid, was full of misconceptions, half truths, and urban myths about CoX PVP.
"I13 broke PvP"
PvP was broken before I13- People who state otherwise either have selective memory, didn't actually PvP back then, or played a mind dom (that last part is a 1/2 joke).
"Castle broke PvP"
1/2 truth- It was Castle's *work* that became I13 but if you are to believe what has been posted on other forums, the finished product was not how he envisioned it nor was it the actual "finished" product. Just like with most things I13 was suppose to be a work in progress, however, since his departure and the less than warm welcome to the changes, people just aren't willing to set up and take a swing at that hornet's nest.
"The Dev's don't listen"
I13, actually came about due to the Dev's listening in my opinion *TOO MUCH* Pre-13, community reps got on vent with PvPers and had a meeting to talk about what changes were desired and what was a priority# The post is still here btw:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=122744
Its a great read.
Travel suppression came about because people complained about "runners".
Heal Decay came about because people wanted to be able to defeat another player.
Diminishing returns came about because they wanted to *lower* the bar for entrance into PvP.
These suggestions came about from players who like some posters state:
"I would PvP if you changed xxxxx"
The truth is those people who made those suggestions aren't pvping, I have no clue as to if they ever did.
"The Devs have done nothing to fix PvP"
/e Facepalm
Lets go back to the priority list again:
1# Selectable Arena maps- Guess what... we got them.
2# Meaniful Rewards- PvP IOs #epic fail in implementation, but the reasoning was there#.
3# Only Affecting Self Timer- Fixed, sort of. Timer has been decreased to 10 seconds.
4# Villains have no +perception in Sirens Call- Fixed, side switching, Pain dom.
5# Instanced PvP- Nothing as of yet.
So 4 of the top 5 #and 4 of the top 4# requests were met, maybe NOT right at the release of I13 but as with everything in this game, its a work in progress.
"PvP will never work, because it the game wasn't designed with it in mind"
This is my favorite line. I look at my characters today, IOs, Set bonuses, Incarnates, New powers, Cimerora, new accolades, Ouroboros, AE (fail). So many things were not "in mind" when the game was created, yet they are pretty well accepted and used.
"The broadcasts and the attitude of punk kid PvPers is disgusting"
Some pvpers are trolls, some pvers are trolls, some badgers are trolls, some forum regulars are trolls. Broadcast pvp occurs because in any competition people get riled up. Also smart players know if you get your opponent riled up they will preform poorly. Honestly, imo, Broadcast in PvP zones should be eliminated.
Attitudes- I will agree with someone who posted that they have seen some horrible attitudes on farms, I-trials, and missions. Its everywhere. People feel that since they are anonymous that gives them the right to act like an <pancake>. Its not limited to PvP.
So why aren't people PvPing?
1) People take someone else shooting/hitting them personally. People are emotionally attached to their characters. So when someone attacks them they feel physically attacked. I would say there is a substantial (no I'm not calling you fat) population of players who shy away from physical violence and for them, even this virtual attack is off putting.
2) Twitch mechanics. This is kind of a cop out. CoX pvp isn't like a FPS where you have to aim while you run and hit a small area on a moving target. You just have to be able to not get caught on that one freaking bush sticking out of the ground while you mash 1,2,3,4 and spacebar. However, there are some players who find the speed at which PvP occurs (or used too) too fast for them to react. Side note: anyone watch that video of the guy doing the new I-trial, at one point he says "Sorry guys, I'm not used to my characters moving this fast". (mad props though, he only died once, and it was on purpose on a character that had no defensive toggles).
3) Time. It does take time to learn pvp. There is no tutorial. There is no explanation other than "you are entering a pvp zone, you will be attacked". Most people won't play something they find frustrating for hours and hours.
4) Rewards. What do you see most people doing these days. For me, I see a lot of players *grinding* if its for i-xp, astrals, Emps, Hero merits, Merits, XP, Inf. Farming is popular. PvP lacks rewards. Its too easily exploited if it gave "meaningful" rewards.
5) Attrition. Honestly, people grow up, they move on. As the population of Cox diminishes so does the population of people who pvp. Yes a "lot" of pvpers left after i13, and guess what.... a lot came back too. I am going to make up some numbers: If when CoX had a population of 50,000 and 5% pvped, then we had 2500 pvpers. Now lets say the population of Cox has decreased to 5,000 we would only have 250. The first number is pretty viable. If you are running around you might run into 1 of those 2500 players pvping, however, now that that the population is 250, the chances of you being in a zone when they are is minimal at best. This is the reason that zone pvp is dead on all servers except Freedom and maybe Virtue. I believe its simple attrition.
6) PvPEC is dead. PvPEC failed. I can say this because, I was PvPEC for a while. We didn't have the support of the community reps at the time, we didn't run enough events to get new players to try pvp nor for players to enjoyed pvp active. If there aren't any events, then, players who only enjoy pvping aren't going to play this game.
So that is why I'm not PvPing. -
Someone from down under told me they say "fizzy drink" and I was trying to remember where I heard that term before.
It must have been when I was in London. -
Quote:lol, no idea. The first time I heard someone say it, I thought they mispoke then after hearing it from a few others and then that dude at the DMV I started to think that I have been using the wrong expression all these years.Originally Posted by Fista
How the heck to you chunk something?
Tobaggan: The act of haggling over the price of an object. "If you go to the car dealship, ask for the manager he is the guy tobaggan with."Quote:Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid 
Heres another test: Define the word 'Toboggan.' -
Quote:Originally Posted by SerialBeggar
On a tangent:
I grew up hearing "man" as an dialog exclamation on TV, movies, books, etc. Like "Hey, man!", "Man, that was great!", "Man, did you see that?" Nowadays, I'm hearing the kids saying "son" instead and they sound so stupid. "Son" just doesn't have the impact as "man". And more importantly, I don't know how people not find that it sounds very demeaning while they're being referred to in such a way.
I'm pretty sure using the term "son" is meant to be derogatory. Its a way of calling someone a kid or saying you are above them.
As far as a dialog exclamation, I guess I use "dude".
Sandwiches: I call them subs. I do remember when I was in Maine they called them Grinders. -
Quote:So far looks like this is holding true.Originally Posted by Rath_the_Brown
Those that haven't seen it before may find this interesting.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Smallzies
soda
lolwut?
EU
Smallz, for the record....
EU does not stand for East Upland. -
I better send him some antimicrobial chapstick.
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His evasion has gotten much better.
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So today I was stuck at the DMV for 2.5 hours and had nothing better to do than to listen to people around me talk very loudly on their cell phones.
Which brought to my attention that people say some weird things.
For a carbonated drink, do you call it a soda or a pop?
To express the action of throwing something away, do you say you "chucked" something or "chunked" something?
Also... what region of the US/world are you from?
I say:
Soda
Chucked
Hawaii -
Get Mryms. Please.
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Stacked team is.... stacked.
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Unless you're one of the tanks is it even really necessary to have EoEs?
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Quote:Originally Posted by Artic Keeper
This seems fun is there still room for people to join?
Revenge of the Nuggets. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Neuronia
I had everyone on mute for the second match on Vent (not on purpose) so was running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Strategy? What strategy.
GFs.
So, you missed Pixel and Smallz singing "Possum Kingdom" it was pretty Epic.