The_Foo

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The rest of this is expansion upon a flawed premise: that 3:1 is a cap, and this evidence shows it to be broken. These items you point out simply mean that the difficulty slider is there to allow players who can and wish to do so to attempt more difficult missions.

The point, however, that AVs have been stated by the Devs to be team-based content still stands. They simply don’t have an issue with people being able to solo them occasionally.

[/ QUOTE ]

I respectfully disagree. I see it this way, and it should be noted that some of the below is my guesses.

1) The devs like AVs pretty close to the way they are.
2) The devs *cannot* make a statement that AVs are soloable with enough planning and prep time, because no matter how hard she tries, my wife will not be able to solo one. She's very new to gaming and the skill level just isn't there. If the devs said they were soloable with enough planning, it would frustrate her, and other customers as well.
3) The devs can't make statements like, "If you're good enough, prepared enough, and patient enough, you can do it," because of the problems listed in 2. But they're all thinking it.
4) (this is the most relevant point) The devs put in a feature that downgrades AVs based on difficulty and team size. It didn't used to be there and it is now. When they put it in, they made a deliberate choice to make AVs spawn when you're solo on invincible. If they really didn't want you soloing them, they wouldn't have done that. The only other possibilities are that they are stupid or that they want to inconvenience you by making you downgrade or get a team at the end of each arc.

So, have the devs stated that AVs are team content? Sure. Do they really mean it? I don't think they completely do. I think that statement panders to my wife and those like her who don't want to feel like they should be able to do it.

- J

[/ QUOTE ]
We're actually agreeing here, as that's what I'm saying.

The line on AVs is that they're team content. That's the intent. They don't want the average player soloing them.

They aren't, however, overly concerned that some players under specific circumstances can solo them.

I would hazard to guess that they keep an eye on what builds and powersets are doing it, and how often, though.

The first part of your post is reasonable:
[ QUOTE ]
Ever since the last time I got into one of these discussions, I've been trying to stay out of it, but I just don't learn.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2. The design *purpose* of the Shivans and Nukes is obviously to be allowed to use in the most challenging circumstances the player might face. Restricting them from being used in those situations circumvents their design purpose. Why continue to have them at all?


[/ QUOTE ]
To make PvP more interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps PvP on your server differs from PvP on mine, but I have never ever ever ever seen someone effectively use a Shivan in PvP. They're slow and have stupid AI and any idiot can joust away from them effectively. Nukes can be effective in PvP *once*, but after that, you've just used up something that takes you 20 to 30 minutes to get for about five seconds of glory. Who in the world would bother? The PvP rewards would become useless and no one would get them, kinda like the mini-heavy you can get from RV is now. Hell, most people don't even know it exists. Why? Because it's not worth the time, so no one gets it. I don't like suggestions that make content useless.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The presumption is that the only people who get them are people who are willing to tolerate PvP, and such people don't count.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this worse than the current situation where the only people who *don't* get them are those who can't stand PvP, and *those* people don't count?

[/ QUOTE ]

This will sound mean, but it's true. People who can't stand PvP don't "count" in this sense because they aren't experiencing the whole game. If I hate Strike Forces but want to fight the entire Freedom Phalanx on my villain, I have a choice of either getting over my hatred or not getting to see that fight. People who aren't magnetically repelled from PvP zones "count" because they're willing to experience that aspect of the game, and get all the pains and pleasures that come with it.

If I didn't like levelling, would it be fair for me to demand that your level 38 power got nerfed? No.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The irony is that this suggestion takes something away from the PvE experience, but doesn't replace it with anything. Its an Anti-PvE suggestion, it just doesn't look like one because of (what I believe to be) the mistaken belief that without Shivans and Nukes, the devs would improve the PvE experience in ways a lot of people seem to believe they are currently *prevented* from doing, but which I would assess as having essentially zero probability of occuring. So its an anti-PvP suggesstion, and an anti-PvE suggestion simultaneously. I seem to be in a minority of one that sees it that way, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem here is that, when people suggest they be restricted, it is because they know the devs don't want us soloing AVs, and are hoping to provide a suggestion that prevents the powers from being made worthless in PvP. Also, many people making the suggestion do believe that the Devs might lower the difficulty of the LRSF if those weren't usable in it.

It's a pro PvE suggestion that is intended to remove any impact on PvP. Again, it may be made using false assumptions, but it's not made for the reasons you think it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here it comes.....

Ready for it? Say it with me now!

Bull.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here, though, there are issues, primarily factual. I’ll point them out for future reference:

[ QUOTE ]

I hear lots of people going on about how the devs do not want people soloing AVs. This is true to the extent that they don't want *everyone* to be able to solo AVs without trying, but really, *look* at the damn game mechanics. Look at how difficulty levels work. Let's examine the following facts:

1) The devs know that some players solo AVs. They do. Clearly. They also know some folks like it.
2) Up until a little while ago, the devs clung to their "1 hero = 3 white minions" mantra. This was blatantly untrue before ED and still is today. Why did they cling to it? Did they just not know that someone with decent skills could handle four white minions? Or are they catering to the lowest common denominator with that statement?
3) If you set your difficulty to relentless/invincible and solo, you will get AVs. Not EBs.

[/ QUOTE ]
The metric 3=1 is untrue. The metric is 3 minions should be the *minimum* that any one hero can handle. It is not a cap, but rather a baseline.

ED and the defensive rebalance were designed to bring players closer to this baseline.

[ QUOTE ]
Now then: Which is more likely?

1) The devs forgot that setting the "required heroes to spawn AV" counter to 1 for invincible would force people to solo them.
2) The devs want soloers to never use invincible.
3) The devs want soloers to have to change their difficulty one notch down at the end of virtually every story arc from 35 on.
4) The devs know damn well that some folks can and like to solo AVs, and know that if you factor in all the time it takes to get the temp powers and take the guy down the xp/time ratio is such that it's not a PLable thing. Therefore, they left in the option, while saying that they aren't technically supposed to be soloable to make sure they don't set people in the mindset that everyone should be able to handle it.


[/ QUOTE ]
The rest of this is expansion upon a flawed premise: that 3:1 is a cap, and this evidence shows it to be broken. These items you point out simply mean that the difficulty slider is there to allow players who can and wish to do so to attempt more difficult missions.

The point, however, that AVs have been stated by the Devs to be team-based content still stands. They simply don’t have an issue with people being able to solo them occasionally.

[ QUOTE ]
AVs are soloable and the devs know it. And if they change the temp powers, the AVs will still be soloable by certain builds using certain tactics and other, different temp powers.

Leave the Shivans and nukes as they are. They're a great example of "fun" farming (as opposed to riding around picking flowers for and hour to make fire resist potions) that provides a kind release from the static mission formula. Making them worthless would effectively kill this activity.

- J

[/ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with this conclusion, though I disagree that the powers are fine as they are.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I consider the missions the only one of those three options directly as a result of the devs, so we're on the same page in terms of that, at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

They designed a powers system that allowed for those massive imbalances, and they designed an XP system that one-dimensionally rewarded only ability along a specific axis: speed of defeat (and as an underlying component: direct effective damage dealing).

A better reward system and a better balanced powers system could have allowed teams that were only a damage-dealing 50 to attempt to satisfy mission objectives in non-standard ways, for which they were a 250 instead. Or to put it in more direct terms, controllers could win with control, instead of having their control be a means to an end of delivering more damage while the targets were controlled.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could also make a case that the player base as a whole could use better education about the powers/slotting system. Is ED even described in the manual? If a larger segment of the playerbase made more informed power/slotting decisions, perhaps you could narrow the chasm of ability. I'm just thinking out loud here...

[/ QUOTE ]
I had to explain that more than three slots of one type was a waste to my friend over the DoubleXP weekend, and he's been playing long enough to have most of the Veteran Rewards.

It's not 'cos he's stupid. It's 'cos he doesn't read the website/forums.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This thread is legendary lets look at what we have:

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the PS3 and Dracula are also in here somewhere. Plus, I think I'm being nerfed in I9.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not if you slot Foo inventions first.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Haikus would weed out the truely lazy

[/ QUOTE ]

I... hey! I'm not lazy, I'm allergic to poetry. It's a real medical condition. Makes me break out in hives.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ironically, I'm allergic to prose. Everything I say or write is written in poetic verse, though the metre is generally confusing or complicated.

For example, I just wrote this in tetra-bi-quadro-supercilious-penta-ridiculumetre.

I was two weeks late. Some things are worth waiting for!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nerf Arcanaville!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I tried, but she baffled me with logic and I ended up buffing her instead. *shakes fist*

[ QUOTE ]
Wait, did you just call me Optimus? I noticed you quoted my response.

[/ QUOTE ]

D'oh! My bad! This is a Prime example of what happens with lack of sleep!

[/ QUOTE ]
So, uh... My middle name is Arcanaville, and I know a few if->then statements. I'm also overpowered...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You do realize I've done this so far with Stone Armor/Super Strength (Tanker) and Fire/Fire Brute? Next is probably going to be a Corruptor. If they start nerfing, they may as well do another global nerf cause I can do this with any character.

Or they could buff AV's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or we could reduce the effectiveness of a suite of Temp Powers. Shivans and the Nuke's are pretty dang good.

And before more people jump on Optimus, we've known those powers were over the top since they were created.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you're saying you're definitely gonna nerf Fire/Fire, yes?

Beat me up, plz k?
Did I follow your rules right?
Draw me now, scaley.

I told everyone you were dead and wanted me to accept payment for your final works.

The one that just ended?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How much is too much?

[/ QUOTE ]
In the words of U2:

"Too much is not enough. Gimme some more."

[/ QUOTE ]

Hah! beat you by nearly four hours, but keep your chin up and don't let the <bleep> grind you down

[/ QUOTE ]
I felt the follow-up line important enough to include.

[ QUOTE ]
How much is too much?

[/ QUOTE ]
In the words of U2:

"Too much is not enough. Gimme some more."

You fixed nothing, as there was nothing to fix! NOTHING!

Another sketchy: Crimehawk!

Headshots - three quickies I did as a warm up.

[ QUOTE ]
Because I was bored and figured she wouldn't complain

Simple modification of the Psylocke sprite from Marvel vs. Capcom that taught me how to hate shading gray X_@ Not sure if I'm satisfied with it but that's just me =D

[/ QUOTE ]
FYI, the best way to shade grey is to use the colour sprite and just convert it to greyscale, then back to colour. You can copy the non-grey parts and paste them in afterwards.

That's how I got ol' Slate over there <-- from the green Hulk sprite. Then I added in his cigar.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I jumped into this one, but if not, I'd like to get in line. Here's my tanker, who has only one commission pending to date, so I need to pad that resume.
Tanks 4D Mammaries combined screenies

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I called May first!

[/ QUOTE ]
Then I call May 2-31.

Anybody who gets a second sketch will do so at the expense of their dignity!

Yes, scamper! ALL SHALL SCAMPER!

Cool! I'm very proud of your piece. I think I did some excellent things with lighting in it.

If anyone calls me Alex again, I'll totally murder them.

That's a pretty cool idea! I love the techno-bow.

Now you've ruined the art-posting thread by making a request here instead of the in the request thread!!! I hope you're happy with what you've done, young man!