T_Immortalus
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Posts
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Quote:Funny that he mentions Rome. Rome was a city that had fallen to corruption and needed to fall because of it. "Sometimes things get worse before they get better."Originally Posted by Washu357
For those who think Cole might be heroic, Vagabond from the Resistance might have a few words to say about that...
"I was laying in a pile of debris, watchin' the Devouring Earth charge into the main city. And you know who I see, watchin' the entire scene from a skyscraper?
Cole.
I thought we were all saved! Here was that guy everyone was talkin' about. And you know what he did? He watched Rome burn."
I would think, in regards to Vagabond, "why was Cole just watching?", "why not save people?" and "what reason could you have given him to not save you?".
Would you save a definite murderer, possibly at the risk of your own life?
I know many would say "no" and many would give the same answer for lesser crimes.
These are just the things that would run through my head.
Edit:
I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just that I do not know the context. -
Quote:This is why I don't really think the Resistance is better than Emperor Cole, or that Cole's system(with or without him) is necessarily bad(except for the seer program which is bad as it is).Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Vanessa might feel that there need to be some heroes running Praetoria for a bit to help tear down the system Tyrant has set up and build a proper governemnt instead
(please, don't go off on a tangent because of the following statements and thoughts)
Why do people need "government?
Why does government need to have power over people?
We can have just and fair laws without government as they are all agreed upon by the people as a system of "I don't want this done to me so nobody can do this to anyone, even myself can't do that to others" and logical fair punishments.
I think what any world needs is less "government" and more of a "facilitator".
People need a group that facilitates their collective will, doing what the people want but can't do on their own. The people need to be in control and the "government" needs to do what the majority of people want, "facilitating the execution of their collective will".
Anyway, I don't care how a system is described or structured or run daily so long as it does right by the majority of people.
If Emperor Cole wants to be a dictator to keep people safe then I'm fine with it, but he better not step out of line. Mother Mayhem is going down for this reason, as well as others who abuse power in the game. -
Quote:BINGO!Originally Posted by je_saist
At some point the Praetorian Calvin came to believe that the only way to fight Tyrant was to use Tyrant's own methods.
The Praetorian Calvin Scott is not meant to be a Hero or a role model. In some aspects I think his own fall from grace is supposed to mimic that of Emperor Cole, but it's not quite the same. Calvin Scott still wants what is best for Praetoria, and I think that on some level he understands that what he is doing is wrong. I'm not convinced that Tyrant has considered the possibility that the steps he has taken could have been wrong.
There is evil on both sides, as well as some good, with good intentions on both ends.
I'll gladly kick both their butts, trying to protect the people or Praetoria from both sides.
"Lemme at'em lemme at'em!"
That leaves 2 questions:
1) What happens to the system after Emperor Cole is defeated or redeemed?
2) What will players choose? Will they take over and make the system worse or better or will they let somebody else impose their will on the populace and either be better or worse than Emperor Cole?
There has to be some form of accepted "this is how the world works" system to ensure people can continue to live and do so with as little fear of evil or inanimate disaster as possible. That tends to lend itself to being controlled by someone, be they good or evil, and improved or twisted by them. -
Quote:1) Is Tyrant truly complicit in "inhuman crimes" or unknowing of them or unwilling to deal with the issues that would come from stopping such crimes?Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Vanessa might feel that there need to be some heroes running Praetoria for a bit to help tear down the system Tyrant has set up and build a proper governemnt instead, because Tyrant's dictatorship isn't a system where crimes against humanity happen from time to time because of rogue members - it's a system built entirely on crimes against humanity, where they're carried out 24/7, because that's the only thing that can keep the system in place.
Plus, the devs actually saying that Tyrant is a villain, and that the loyalists are the real threat to Praetoria, and that the Resistance are the good side kinda backs up the content we see in-game too
We know Mother Mayhem is a pretty safe "crazy evil" bet, but Cole may be "accepting one evil to prevent what he thinks is a worse evil".
Plenty of room for him to not be truly evil but rather "evil in another's eyes" just as much as he is "good in another's eyes".
2) The devs have also stated that the Resistance has many evil people as well. Both sides have those that just want power and mayhem and death of someone in particular or random people.
The very fact that we are supposed to "empathize with Cole" is proof that he is supposed ot be viewed as "possibly good, possibly evil" but always "doing what he thinks is necessary 'for the greater good'". -
Quote:Maybe he is, but maybe he is not beyond redemption or not that much of a villain.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
When the devs say someone's a villain, I tend to believe them - especially when they back it up with actions in game
It is both a question of degrees and perceptions.
The official bio could very well have been written "in character" as a Resistance member appearing to be objective and unbiased but still biased at the heart towards the name "Tyrant".
I'll judge whether or not he is a villain when he actually directly(or at least supposedly indirectly) does something I can truly say is evil, not his underlings or propaganda from an incorrect biased source.
Then, I'll judge whether he can be redeemed or not.
For example, I don't believe Tyrant orchestrated the Praetorian DE "typhoid mary" event in this story. I truly believe he "would not wish that fate on his worst enemy" let alone a people he wants to conquer with subjects remaining to rule over.
He does not seem evil yet, misguided and questionable possibly but not evil. -
Quote:What would you say of religions with one god and one interpretation of that god's will over every person?Originally Posted by Golden Girl
No he isn't - he crossed the line the moment he set up his dictatorship
Dictatorship is a word to describe a system where one person is in control.
It is not inherently good or evil, but the person in that position can be evil.
The answer is not "Praetoria is an evil dictatorship" but rather the question is "is Emperor Cole an evil dictator?".
The key phrase is "evil dictator" where "evil" is clearly a modifier to distinguish "evil dictator" from "benevolent dictator".
Words are a tricky thing. They can be used to oppress or free people, show truth or hide it and praise or slander a person.
The Resistance is likely just as guilty of making up lies about Emperor Cole as much as he is guilty of making up lies about himself.
Humans are human, even superhumans are superhuman.
One (super)human's actions prove that another is likely just as capable as the other of the same actions.
Is the Resistance better than Cole or just a different color wolf? Is Cole worse that the Resistance is supposedly good or just a different color puppy?
I would not write any character or person off as evil without proof or even truly good because actions matter and things can change.
You can have proof of evil, but they can be redeemed. You can have proof of good, but they can fall to corruption.
Trust, but be wary. -
Quote:1) That's the perspective of the Carnival of Light/Resistance as obviously the Crusaders are just "violence prone" rather than their true "evil murderous" leanings all too often.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
This might be a good time to psot Vanessa DeVore's updated bio from I21:
It doesn't seem to present Tyrant and the loyalists in a very good lightQuote:"The mysterious Vanessa DeVore is a powerful psychic who formed the Carnival of Light from the desperate remains of powerful sorcerers and renegade telepaths who saw Emperor Cole for the evil he truly is. It is her mental powers which masks the Resistance from Praetor Tilman and the Seers. She helped form the Resistance from scattered and aimless groups opposed to Emperor Cole's totalitarian regime. She chose Calvin Scott to lead the violence prone Crusaders into battle with the Praetorian usurpers, and on the other hand she has carefully cultivated the Wardens to overthrown the empire from within and ultimately take over."
Villains are on both sides along with heroes on both sides.
2) "she has carefully cultivated the Wardens to overthrown the empire from within and ultimately take over"
"and ultimately take over"
It doesn't seem like they want a different form of government so much as "we want to be the ones with power instead of Cole".
True good people and heroes don't want power; they just don't want others to have the power to prevent them from living a good honest happy life.
The Resistance of Praetoria are not "truly good" just as the Loyalists are not "truly evil".
Their motives are what make them good or evil as individuals within the whole of the groups.
It still remains to be seen whether Emperor Cole is doing "necessary evil", and "going a bit too far" possibly, or has fallen to the corruption of power.
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" is not meant to say "no leaders ever" but rather "don't fall to the temptation of power to become corrupt" and "always be wary of your leaders, ensure they do not fall into corruption while they lead".
It's not a condemnation; it's a cautionary tale.
Emperor Cole needs to be watched, and Mother Mayhem needs to be taken down because watching her has proven she has been corrupted, but the system as a whole may not need drastic changes or the changes may end up being worse.
Where do you place the line to be crossed? How do you judge what is "necessary" versus what is "wrong", especially when you don't fully understand the world they live in? -
Quote:He doesn't just use the DE threats for kicks, like some chaoic evil such as the Joker from Batman comics.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's another one of those Devouring Earth threats that always seem to come along at useful times during his career
He has a reason.
The reason is what matters most in determining the difference between vigilante and pure evil villain.
You know what?
The main question of all of the Praetorian content, and real life, is....."do the ends really justify the means?".
That is all Cole is doing. He says "yes, the ends do justify the means", but Primal Earth heroes say "no, the ends, no matter how great, do not justify the means".
Oh yes, Mother Mayhem is crazy(definitely) and evil(most likely, but maybe not irredeemably so if her insanity will be cured), but maybe Emperor Cole and Praetoria as a whole are not as evil as you would like to believe, especially if they get rid of as much evil as they can leaving only the supposed "necessary evils".
After all even in the real world, imprisoning a person without cause is illegal but it is perfectly legal and "heroic" to imprison someone for their evil deeds.
Where do you draw the line between "mostly good" and "evil"?
That is where Emperor Cole is. He is treading the line, and we are meant to decide "is he doing what is necessary or doing evil?", which the story is meant to make us question our stance at every turn.
Edit:
I don't role-play, officially or hardcore, but I do enjoy being immersed int he world as much as possible.
This is a great example of game immersion, but it's too bad this doesn't actually take place in the game.
I would be perfectly happy with the most simplistic UI and a simpler game(no real loot, less complicated crafting, no leveling....pretty much like a FPS game such as Halo 2) that fostered immersion in the world so long as there were well-made stories and a wholly well-made world to "live in".
That is what a lot of MMOs seem to be missing, and the system of this game detract from. We have to rely on, essentially, outside stories and "books"(written/typed words) to experience the story and immersion of a game when we really are playing an interactive medium that should immerse us much more thoroughly and simply rather than having immersion and story take a back seat to progression/grind/more numbers. -
Quote:1) there have been terrible things done in the name of "righteousness" with at least one group believing those things were heroic, and they likely were but only for them.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Mass-murder, torture, brainwashing, slavery and multi-dimensional conquest aren't heroic in any way at all.
There is always an "us versus them" issue that decides whether something is viewed as heroic or not.
2) If it weren't for government acceptance and overarching uniting threats, all Primal Earth heroes would be considered vigilantes/villains by the people for disobeying the law.
Heroism is a matter of perspective in that way.
3) Golden Girl, are you really believing every word written about Praetoria as gospel truth?
Has it not occurred to you that maybe they wrote the backstory of Emperor Cole/Tyrant and every other character as if it was written by a biased person from the game world?
History is not just rewritten by those in power. Those trying to seize power will spread their own propaganda.
I, for one, am very impressed with this story, and I believe actions speak louder than words.
Emperor Marcus Cole has, apparently, had the best of intentions and generally tried to do as little "necessary evil" as possible, in all histories of Praetoria that I know of and story arcs I have played through(even the Loyalist Power arcs).
He may have pushed the boundaries of "necessary evil" and may very well let his close confidants get away with evil, but I still see room for him to not be evil himself, not know how "unnecessary" the evil his subordinates do is(and not know all they do) or realize the error of his ways eventually.
I'm, personally, still going to do what is right, even as a Loyalist, and make sure to kick Cole in the nuts when he gets out of line, but I'm not willing to write anybody off as evil based on hearsay.
PS. I think we'll eventually defeat Cole, possibly redeeming him, and maybe become the new emperor(to facilitate both heroic and villainous stories, using phasing and conditional NPC dialog to achieve this) or at least become a new Praetor as Praetoria moves into a better age as it retains the good of the civilization(global overall peace and clockwork working for humans). -
Quote:A resurrect power like that would be possible, though annoyingly long. Also they would have to extend to invulnerable time or maybe leave it like the Doctor, as in you can die during regeneration for good. :POriginally Posted by Eldritch_Knight
What if it was a defeat-based emote?
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You need to fill tier 7 to unlock IOs, not just get to it. Your calculation needs 6 more tokens at least.
And, it doesn't even matter where I'm at, because there are veterans who have fewer months and their will be new players. It's even worse for them, but I guess a little better considering they haven't already spent $400+ on the game, thus they get more for their $400 after Freedom.
You know your biggest mistake?
Every one of you "this system is great" advocates forgets that the subscription is still $15 per month.
"Subscribers get this for free. subscribers get that for free."
Seriously, it's not free when you're paying for it, and you don't even get to keep any of it unless you spend your monthly allowance on it and likely more.
All you're really paying for as a subscriber is the exclusives, which will likely be in the store eventually, but they aren't worth $15 per month forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever....
That's the thing about subscription that really sucks. You either pay forever or stop paying and lose stuff.
Yes, right now you lose everything, and Freedom is better than that. But, Freedom still isn't as good as it should be, especially for you constant subscribers who they expect to shell out extra beyond 400PP every month.
I don't even care anymore about what you people say.
I will either be proven right and you will conveniently forget and we'll all suffer, or I will be proven wrong and things will improve for me.
The latter is better, but I can take some satisfaction in the former being a lesson to future game company ventures to "don't be too greedy or you will fail". -
@Lightfoot
1) My "won't ever understand" point was directed towards most of the people who have responded to this thread without trying to understand and instead resorting to stupid pictures(a la Forbin above).
2) I know exactly what I will get and what I will lose and I'm ok with most of it.
But like many veterans and future VIPs are upset with prices of things like the enhancement boosters, I am upset with the amount I will need to pay, and how long I will need to wait especially with finances in question, to reach the invention system unlock.
Essentially, it is so far out there that it is no longer an enticement. I'm forced to disregard it and just accept that I won't have that basic system which many others enjoy.
I helped keep this game alive, as best I could with my sad state of finances, because I enjoy it and need some fun in my life(don't any of you other people dare jump on me about my priorities, which happen to be perfectly fine).
I just want a more fair and obtainable way to gain basic systems like the invention system, rather than waiting until I have spent about $200 more(which depends on what they sell and my finances) or spending a repeating fee($2) every month for 8 years or so.
I literally can't continue to subscribe for very long let alone wanting to pay a "rental fee".
It just doesn't make sense for me to continue subscribing or to spend as much as they demand for the invention system unlock.
On top of that, subscription are beginning to look like a horrible option for this game, not because of what they have but because of all the things that will be going straight to the store requiring beyond the monthly allowance worth of spending from VIPs.
Premium members literally and realistically get the better deal, or at least will before too long, simply because they don't have a recurring payment for temporary time.
I'm not just posting my opinions for myself. I'm trying to point out "you'll regret it too" to all these people who claim "I'll be wise with my allowance of points" when the system is built to break down their willpower.
I'm sick of double-dipping by companies. I'm not happy that this one is on the way to that. I'm not happy that they place common and very useful statistical systems(things that make everybody's character better and work behind the veil of graphics) behind a huge amount of money for all new and many existing customers.
This is certainly not fair value for some things like that.
Now, Forbin can say whatever he wants, but I'm going to stop posting here if at all possible, maybe only respond to reasonable people who attempt to civilly discuss, and let people do what they obviously want without goading me into such stupidity.
I said enough for smart people and those who try to understand to go back and read. I am not going to keep repeating myself and reiterating the obvious fact that "this is not fair value, but we customers deserve fair value". -
Quote:Hmm...Originally Posted by medic57
I would like to see wheel chairs be added to costume legs. I don't know if this can be done technically. I just know in rl I'm in one.
Now for the fantasy. I am rolling down the street in King's Row, have a hellion try to "take a bat to my skull", take a swig of my potion (ty super science booster pack!) and *poof* turn into my tank and beat "the tar" out of him. /smile
Given your example, it could work exactly like the new hoverboard power. It would just require a different animation and different vehicle model.
This could really work. -
Look at my forum register date. That is more than 3 years.
I am unable to continue subscribing at all times, not to mention not a fan of paying for time that counts down while unused(don't make me go on this topic).
I would have to spend a lot to get invention access, guaranteed, which I can't afford right now and, given the option to pay for content instead of time, would not want to spend that much on content "just to unlock" inventions when I can and should be judging the worth of content and spending money on what I feel I want, will use and is worth the price, signaling to them which content I want to see more of and what prices are worth it.
There is a purpose to a F2P/hybrid model that you "just continue subscribing" people apparently will never understand.
Thus, you can't seem to ever understand my point and should not be arguing for me or against me without that understanding.
You, apparently, won't ever be in the position I am or even understand it. -
Quote:They can't alter the color on the fly currently, but they could make a copy of the emote in another color.Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
I want to say there's one in the repertoire that looks a bit like that already, but I can't remember which one it is, or if in fact my memory is just making it up because it would be so cool. Although... can they make costume change emotes colorable? I don't think there's a mechanism in the UI for that. Which would be kind of a shame; be nice to be able to make it match your powers instead of just being orange.
I think the CCemote that reminds me most of Doctor Who is the Dimension Shift, but all of them are way too fast to be like the slow regeneration. -
May be a cool idea, but the first issue that jumps to mind, for me, is that it steps on the toes of brute/tank/scrapper/stalker/"anything with self buffs" while also having a lot of issues with costume parts if it visually creates new armor or something.
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Quote:UGH, you make me have to post again.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Although that would mean losing access to the forums to give your feedback, as well as to any beta testing
1) I think being completely restricted from forums and support, no matter how much you spend, is a dumb thing, especially for any serious bugs that those members will then have no assistance with and thus no desire to pay for a buggy game that treats them as "not worth attention".
Feedback should always be welcome from all and support should always be given for bugs and lost items, especially to anyone who pays any amount of money.
2) I wasn't going to bother with Beta partly because it's all buggy and temporary and a spoiler of the good things when it goes live and mainly because the huge amount of data to download would lay up my entire internet bandwidth for days(at least 24 hours), during which I couldn't play live. -
Last post to say 2 things for all the different versions of "Captain Oblivious" here responding:
1) I'm ignoring this thread because all you are doing is goading for a flame war and missing the blatantly obvious literal meaning of words that are bright white on a blue background(easy to see).
You apparently try to advocate seeing both sides and being objective and considering all facts, but you fail to do so yourselves. Forbin's signature about irony is oddly appropriate considering his/her actions and those of others.
2) "I WANT TO WANT TO SPEND MONEY!"
That is all I have been saying. "I want to WANT to spend money."
I don't want to "need to spend money on things I already paid for".
I don't want to "need to spend money on crap I don't want at all before getting to the stuff I do want to spend money on".
(How far into paragon rewards is invention access? How much stuff that I probably don't even want do I have to get/purchase to reach that point?)
I do not want(DO NOT WANT) "free".
I want "value".
I object to having the invention system unlock so late in the reward tiers, especially considering my veteran status of almost 3 years.
I will not, as a matter of principle and common sense(I'm not spending almost $200 to unlock inventions permanently), spend the money for a monthly "license", pseudo-subscription, for invention access. Doing so would be absolutely stupid unless I were to permanently access IOs very shortly, but $2 per month of guaranteed spending(since everything else would be optional) would take 100 months to unlock the inventions permanently.
Why can't they be fair to customers? Why must things be a blatant grab at as much cash as possible, especially from those that kept the game from dying all these years?
I JUST WANT TO WANT TO SPEND MONEY! That was not a typo.
Edit:
I have a right to not pay a subscription when they give me the option.
If they are going to sell me access to a system without needing to pay the subscription then they have to price it fairly. They are not doing this for the invention system and AH access.
Oh yes, I bet you "fanboys" haven't even noticed that premium members can sell on the AH, with a separate invention license to get things to be able to sell as well, before they are able to buy on the AH. I guess you can watch your INF disappear to premium members who can't buy what you sell. Are you happy about that little issue of decreasing supply? -
Quote:Well then don't participate in drawing it off topic.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
If you think someone is doing that then report the post and put the person on ignore by left clicking their forum name then choosing, view public profile, then User Lists, and Add to ignore list. Then you'll never see anything they say.
But demands that people should stay on topic usually backfire. Been here 7 years and I've never seen it work. Not even the mods/devs can keep people on topic. It's like herding cats.
What do you think of actually having accurate server status on the server list in the game? -
Quote:Correct.Originally Posted by Garielle
If I read him right, he isn't talking about the Server Status page on the web. He is talking about the Server Status list in the game client after you login. At least, I think he is.
That list, and the password screen before it, are always providing inaccurate information on server status.
Try logging in during maintenance next time and read the error box that comes up(if it still does). I bet it will say "you were unable to connect to the login server, please check your internet connection and make sure you are able to login".
It's rather dumb that even a scheduled shutdown brings up the "it's your fault" error box. -
I was talking about the server list in the game, which happens to only list a server as down once they are all down or it is has been officially determined as down.
It really should have some sort of trigger that detects server status "on the fly"(shouldn't be hard or need more than a single string of data) and updates it for users so they aren't left wondering what is going on, if it is their computer or whatever.
But, I guess they like telling ever customer "go fix your internet" when they can't login or stay connected because the server died or was taken down intentionally.
@MajorPrankster:
What are you stalking me for?
I ignore that other thread now that you have to bring up again because all the trolls(who accuse others of being alarmist or trolls or "not worth considering their views") have to destroy civil discussion because they just can't read("TLDR" ring any bells?) and only want to cause conflict.
Don't you dare turn this perfectly reasonable and smart suggestion into a flame war with your desire to stalk my posts.
Anybody else can take their posts elsewhere. This is for discussion of my suggestion, nothing else. -
Quote:They were not all down when I posted, just Freedom and possibly Virtue, but they were listed as still being up.Originally Posted by joebartender
The game is "broken" they had to take it down for emergency stability fix after the hardware upgrades today and are now pushing out a hotfix for the issues with no eta on server uptime.
The point of this suggestion is to get a more accurate status of every server and all the servers as a whole instead of the usual "you were unable to connect to the login server, check your internet connection for problems"(which is just stupid when that is definitely not the reason).
The suggestion stands. -
Quote:Couldn't this result be achieved with a(technically) male character with the animal pack?Originally Posted by Amerikatt
I'm all for the downtime ... as long as there are fully customizable Cat/Kitten models, the height slider drops to 1' tall, and the chest slider can be adjusted a full kilometer to the LEFT!
I know the height isn't that small, but it looks pretty close with Beast Run at the lowest height setting. -
I'm guessing all your chat goes to this "LB" channel?
There are little letters above where you type in text. The far right one is an "A" that stands for "active tab". Click that and you will be able to chat to whatever the default channel is for a tab.
If you want to talk in the help channel then you begin typing with "/h " as in "/h hi help channel".
If the issue is that you can't see help channel anymore then you probably created a new tab for this "LB" channel and will need to click the tab that says "Chat" or "Global" right where it says that word on the little tab.
Other than that, you are much too vague with your question for me to help more.
The chat system in this game is not simple, so you must be detailed about the issue you are having. -
P.S.
Find a way to show "servers will be shutting down in 30 minutes" type warnings on the list too.
Edit:
Well, color me surprised. I actually got past the login and found all servers grayed out and down, but I remember not being able to get past the login before with it saying "you may have network problems" instead of the true issue.
Also, single server shutdowns are still apparently not listed with no warnings as to shutdowns coming.