SteelRat

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  1. Gender in signature issues aside, the one thing that I'm little unclear with this thread, is.. well.. the point?

    Your OP is a bit, well.. "rambly", if there's such a word, but if I get the gist of what you're saying correctly, you're basically saying that you can't understand why CoH wasn't more popular than it was because it appeared to offer all the things that gamers wanted?
  2. Advertising has always been one of those things blamed for the game not being as popular as we thought it should be, but in the scheme of things, even during the "glory years" of i6-i12 was it really advertised less than any other games that aren't WoW?
  3. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy View Post
    hmm never noticed that in CO, then again I play mostly melee and it seems the whole body moves more fluid, in sync, wit hthe moves. Not sure about range animations though. but I noticed the obvious waist line in COX. The animation for CO seems smoother, albeit comic drawing like, while COX look like dated computer game, but plays ok. But art style to me, is one of things that dont matter much because if it did, neither Cox nor CO would be anywhere on the list of games I would look twice at for that department of realism.

    And also again I only played melee but in CO feels like I'm hitting something, punching something, cutting something. COX not so much on the punches, which is actaully more comical than CO version, but TW in COX does feel like it has more weight, but the rest of the melee CO seems to feel more solid like it's hitting something. But dont seem like CO have ragdoll effect but COX sometimes have too much ragdoll effect to comical levels. CO feel good enough like you are hitting something solid while COX just seem to slow down the pacing for no other reason to just slow down the pacing but with not much of a solid feel to it outside a few powersets.

    Overall, CO doesnt take itself serious. COX tried to take itself too serious but have more comical animations/story/characters in many cases than the obvious comic CO, which then comes off as odd.
    There are two scenarios where it's especially noticable; one if you're firing a ranged energy builder whilst hovering. Your legs don't move at all whilst everything above the waist is fully animated. The other scenario is running along the ground and getting hit by a ranged projectile. Your legs continue to run, but your top half reacts to the hit. Looks really odd.

    I agree with you about the "taking itself seriously" thing too and actually that's one of the other things why CO put me off. It's almost like you're playing a SuperHero Parody, rather than a super hero game. CoH felt "grittier" with moments of humour, whereas CO just feels like one pie-in-the-face after another.

    Still.. I'm aware I'm turning this into a "CO vs COH Thread", which it obviously isn't.

    We return you to your scheduled programming..
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Revanchist View Post
    Fallen Earth

    http://www.gamersfirst.com/fallenearth/ ( or through Steam)

    This is what I've moved to for now. Free-form post-apocalyptic MMO with a free to play as well as a 3 tiered payment structure (more crafting spots and other bonuses). Except for a few crafting materials and mission rewards almost everything in the game can be player-made.

    At least the lower 2/3rds of the game seems to be solo-friendly so far and PvP is strictly optional (better/rarer crafting supplies in some of the PvP zones but I frequently see players ignoring each other in those areas). Interface takes a little getting used to since you need to aim at your targets but the learning curve is low, especially if you play FPS style games.

    The biggest challenge I've found so far is deciding where to put points when leveling since you only get so many and will never be able to max every stat and skill.
    Thanks for pointing this out to me. Having done a little digging, I have a feeling this is a game that would grow on me. Sure, the visuals are a little dated but reading around sounds as if the core gameplay and the implementation of the way the game world works sounds like its got the potential for an awful lot of depth.

    Will edit the OP to include it!
  5. Still one thing COH scores over CO is that at least the top and bottom halves of your character are animated properly, rather than looking as if they belong to two different people and just happened to be joined at the waist.
  6. Difficult one to gauge really. Midnight PST is going to be 7 am UK time and me and the other half are planning to get up early and log in for the final couple of hours, if for no other reason just to see what happens. Hadn't really paid attention to Arcana's beta event, and if it coincides with the time of the shutdown that's a bit of a shame because it immediately splits those who know about it and those who don't. Far better, surely, for everyone to be together as the lights go out?

    I would like to think there'll be a bit of a resurgence of players who want to give the game the appropriate send off, so hopefully Virtue will have all 33 APs back
  7. Nothing. Sending hateful gifts is a notch more childish than comment bombing game reviews of NCSoft games with anti NCSoft rhetoric, but hey.. do what ya gotta do
  8. Pretty much agree with all the replies. The combat mechanic is the one thing that really shows CoHs age and has been vastly improved in more recent games.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackjak View Post
    Finally! Otherland in game form. Those books weretailor made for mmo gaming. Thanks for the heads up.
    Youre welcome. Tad Willis himself is involved with the project too so i think the game will do justice to the feel of the lore. As i said in the op i really like the unique look and feel of this game and from what ive seen theres going to be some really nice ideas thrown in there.
  10. Whilst we all know where we're going to be next weekend as far as CoH is concerned, what I'm hoping to do here is show that a) there is life after CoH and b) you don't have to sell your soul to a large publisher to get your gaming awn.

    I've been keeping my eye on MMORPG.com and Massively.com via twitter and the web for the past month or so and here are some of the games that caught my eye (admittedly most of which are still in development) You might find something here that will interest you once you've decided the "obvious" options of GW2, CO and DCUO aren't for you.

    The Secret World
    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...ret-World.html

    Probably the best of the bunch from a CoH point of view. Not actually a super-hero game per se, but it does have a free form, levelless progression system and a nice diversity of missions beyond "Go Here. Kill 10 Rats". I wasn't overly impressed by screenshots and video that I saw of the game, but after seeing so many CoH'ers migrating to it, I thought I'd give it a go. Glad I did.

    Neverwinter
    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...verwinter.html

    Developed by none other than Cryptic Studios, this looks like it could be fun. Not usually a fan of fantasy games, but watching some of the dev interview videos has definitely made me interested.

    The Repopulation and Greed Monger
    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...opulation.html
    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...ed-Monger.html

    Two different games, two different developers, but both follow a similar formula. Essentially when the games start, they'll be a blank canvas, left to the players to create everything in the world - buildings, markets, the full works with only the indigenous wildlife and each other to hinder their progress.

    MechWarrior: Online
    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...or-Online.html

    If you like climbing in a 60ft stompy bot and fighting against other like minded folks this could be for you. Currently in open beta, fortnightly balance and content patches and a crapton of fun. At the moment, it's basically World of Tanks in big robots, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    Otherland
    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...Otherland.html

    Probably the one I'm the most excited about. A game based on the series of Sci Fi books of the same title by Tad Williams. A world set in a future time where the internet is a vast array of virtual worlds. Have a look at the intro and trailer videos; the art style might not be everyones cup of tea, but there looks to be some really nice character customisation options and a dev team that wants to make something different to what we've come to know as the "Standard" MMORPG.

    The Elder Scrolls Online
    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...ls-Online.html

    If you've played and loved Skyrim, this is another one to keep an eye on. I was initially a little skeptical about making the wonderfully immersive world of Tamriel into a multiplayer experience, but actually I think this could be pretty good.

    PlanetSide 2
    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...netSide-2.html

    Not entirely sure about this one, if I'm honest. It looks as if it might be a cross between SWTOR and Battelfield, but I'll give it a go once I upgrade my machine at the beginning of next year.

    This is just a small selection of games that are in development or currently available and the ones that have really grabbed my attention. I would strongly recommend having a look to see if there's something you like. Failing that, have a look at MMORPG.com, click "GameList" and you can do a search in there for games by publisher, genre, or even order by popularity based on the sites members.

    Fallen Earth
    http://www.gamersfirst.com/fallenearth/ ( or through Steam)

    Free-form post-apocalyptic MMO with a free to play as well as a 3 tiered payment structure (more crafting spots and other bonuses). Except for a few crafting materials and mission rewards almost everything in the game can be player-made.

    At least the lower 2/3rds of the game seems to be solo-friendly so far and PvP is strictly optional (better/rarer crafting supplies in some of the PvP zones but I frequently see players ignoring each other in those areas). Interface takes a little getting used to since you need to aim at your targets but the learning curve is low, especially if you play FPS style games.
  11. SteelRat

    Favorites

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
    Yeah again I think I will regret not giving Gravity another try after the revamp.
    Gravity is a fantastic set, if for no other reason you get one of the most comedic powers in the game at level 6. Propel. Throwing a pool table or a forklift at someones face never gets old.
  12. MMOs are far from a dying genre and in fact the trend for games that require you to be online to play them even if they don't have an online multiplayer option is on the increase. As I've said in other posts, cloud computing, software being rented so that copying and piracy is much more difficult is the way things are going not just for gaming, but for software generally.

    Keep your eye on MMORPG.com or Massively.com. There are other game publishers other than NCSoft, believe it or not, and some of what they are doing is actually rather encouraging.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU View Post
    I don't want any sympathy when it happens... I mean, I got none from this community the previous times NCsoft closed down on my games. All I got in general was a big "well, you did play a crap game, so you should have expected it"...
    Now THAT is Karma
  14. SteelRat

    Favorites

    [QUOTE=JayboH;4420110]

    1. Looking back, considering everything, which was your favorite archetype in the game?

    2. In possible contrast, when it comes to your favorite character, what kind was it? List AT and the two main sets.

    3. What AT did you evolve to enjoy over the years that you disliked initially?


    My answers:

    1. Brutes. Hands down. I remember rolling a tanker in i6 before I bought CoV and really liking the no nonsense animations. I enjoyed scrappers, but they always seemed to be about martial finesse. I liked the raw feeling of the tanker secondaries and I remember thinking "it's a shame there isn't an AT where the primaries and secondaries are reversed"

    2. Volkanik was, and still is my favourite character. Stone Melee / Firey Aura brute. I've detailed his history in other threads so won't repeat it here. While he may be forced to "die" next weekend, I'm going to be changing my name from SteelRat to Volkanik in any future forums that I log in as. Might not sound like much, but SteelRat has been my online monicker since about 1997. I've always felt a bit "cheap" using it because it's essentially someone elses character (the late Harry Harrison). Volk though, is truly mine.

    3. Dominators. The one AT I tried a number of times and just couldn't get on with. Towards the end though I really found them a lot of fun to play. Had a Dark / Dark, Dark / Fire, Earth / Earth and Grav / Energy. Think the highest one I had I got to about level 40, but with all the brute alts I had too, fitting them all in was a bit of a task
  15. Not immediately, no. If nothing else the closure has prompted me to gave other games more of a chance and give them more than just a passing look. I've been a gamer for more or less 30 years, so just because I can't play one game I really like, won't stop me gaming altogether.

    As I've said in other posts, I get the feeling that MMOs are entering a new generation. Devs are finally getting in to their heads that WoW isn't the be all and end all formula for a successful title, and that being innovative and introducing different things is the way forward. GW2s open quest system, TSWs Skill wheel and investigation missions are just examples of teams being brave enough to try something beyond the "Talk to this contact, go kill Skuls" approach we've seen time and time again before.

    To that end, I've discovered a number of games that I'll either try (currently loving TSW, and rediscovered Skyrim thanks to the extensive modding scene) or keep my eye on (Otherland, The Repopulation and Greed Monger look interesting) and the funny thing is, however much CoH did right to keep me playing it for as long as I did, when you see what's around now you really start to see just how dated it is.

    Given NC's "realignment of company focus" I can't see me playing any more of their games, not because of some short sighted sense of duty, but their new direction is unlikely to produce any games I'm going to like.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
    I still play old console games in an emulator (perfectly legal so long as I actually own the games I play, best with disk based games.) Most console games can easily be replayed decades later either by getting a console or running an emulator.

    There are MANY very well known workarounds to computer upgrades breaking games, going from VMWare virtualization of old hardware/software combinations to plainly keep an old computer running DOS or Windows XP around. If you trully believe this game should be no different, then we should get all needed stuff to just build our own servers or virtualize them
    To be fair I probably wasn't making my point as well as I might. What I was trying to say was that games have always had a "lifespan". There have been reasons beyond completing it, getting the newest shiney, or just moving on to something else which have often been things beyond the control of most of us.

    I'm fully aware of emulators, DOSBox, VMWare and all those other things to extend the life of an old game or give us a chance to work around those limitations, but more often than not I've found when I've got misty eyed about a game I used to play, spent an hour researching the ways of getting it going again only to find that it very quickly showed its age.

    MMO's are no different in that respect when you get to the bottom line and demonising NCSoft as an evil game killer is a bit over the top, imo.
  17. I personally don't think that NC's actions nor CoH's demise is going to be something that unusual over the next few years. I get the impression that the gaming market generally is changing with a shift from the PC platform to the mobile and browser one. It's almost like the first generation of MMOs is coming to an end, and a new one is just around the corner.

    I don't think it'll be long before other "venerable titles" like EQ, DAoC and probably even WoW fall by the wayside to make way for the new boys. Once that happens all of what's happened here is likely to fall in to better perspective.
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter View Post
    I think the bigger problem there isn't whether or not a game got axed. But while not being a perpetual gold mine, AFAIK CoH was the only one of the games that WAS still pulling its own weight. That makes things scary for pretty much every MMO in existence, because now we can't even base the long-term survivability of our games on the coldest known standard.

    I was getting wary of new games already. Now... I have no idea what to think. What variable is there that still CAN be trusted?
    Thing is though, how many old games do people actually still play? Do people still play Spy Hunter, or Manic Miner, or Elite, or any of those games that don't require a cost by a company to maintain? Or for example, what happens when an old game you love doesn't run on your new PC because of OS compatibility, or graphics support or a myriad of other reasons?

    The difference here is that the closure of an MMO is something that's forced on the players en masse by the company that runs it and so there's that whole "wanting something you can't have" effect that takes over, but ultimately it's no different to upgrading your Amstrad CPC464 to a PC and finding you can't play Ikari Warriors anymore.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thunder Knight View Post
    I was talking about the same thread, so I'm not sure how that refutes what I said, or how it supports what you said.

    I don't know anything about "tainted", I just know that he started off that thread with name-calling and insults, right in the very first post.

    So you coming in and defending him by saying "He never insulted anyone in that thread!" is disingenuous at best. (At worst, you seriously believe that saying "You guys are all idiots!" is not an insult)
    Of course not, but I don't really remember him saying that in the thread. Granted, I was reading it on my phone on the train on the way home from work so maybe I missed it. That said, I didn't get any sense of him making things personal from any of his other posts, so why should I assume he would in the very first one?

    To be honest given that the whole thread has been deleted and I can't go back and check, this is a little moot, is it not?
  20. I think that part of the problem is that loyalty does tend to be a two way street. Coh was pulling its iwn weight, granted, but you cant argue that the trend wasnt steady and downward. Maybe it might have lasted a year or two but can you honestly say that your disappointment and reaction to the news wouldnt have been the same whenever it came?

    People talk about other games being axed then sold on and enjoying a reprieve but those games actually have large numbers of people playing them. I played daoc for a bit and that regularly had hundreds if not thousands of players just on the shard i was in. Before i moved from union to virtue a month or so ago it was doing well if it got into treble figures. Its an oft used point of view but if coh was all that great why werent more people playing it?

    Theres a combination of the larger gaming populace being fickle and the sheer number of different games on offer meaning that theres very little scope for brand loyalty to any degree - with one obvious exception but id imagine even that will be in a similar situation before long.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by JKedan View Post
    I can't help but wonder how this might look to someone who didn't have a stake in the game.

    I wonder if they might not look at all this hubbub and think "if five games in five years is so bad, why were these people still around to get burned after four games in four years? Why is five so bad, but four is 'ok'?". Or even "These people have known since at least the Garriott case in 2010 that this company was capable of dodgy, if not outright illegal, practices. Why didn't moral outrage compel action then? Why were they still supporting a game owned and run by such a company?". In short, why did this urge to 'defend mmo gamers against the business practices of callous publishers' only show up when our game was on the block instead of any of the others that shut down, NCSoft owned or otherwise?

    An outside observer might think it appears a little hypocrital, and perhaps a touch self important. A "This didn't matter until I was effected, but now everyone should take note" situation. A bit late to start complaining about something that's been going on with little protest from us for at least five years, isn't it?

    Then again, I don't really think most people outside the CoX community care. At least not any more than most of us did when some other game we didn't play shut down. As I recently mentioned elsewhere, I suspect most of them, if they even notice, will shrug it off as the bitter complaining of the last holdouts of an eight year old game that had to go F2P, one that most outsiders hadn't heard of or didn't like to begin with.
    Very much this.

    Tony whilst I do understand where you're coming from there are two things in your post that really stand out.

    Firstly, the "Do a deal with us or else" stance is a bit.. well.. pompous. I mean honestly, who do you think you are? Whilst I do agree that CoH is / was a "venerable" title with a loyal playerbase, and the way they handled things wasn't ideal, ultimately it was a game that was in steady decline for a number of years. SaveCoH was harking on about how amazing 20,000 signatures was and what a powerful voice they had, but in the scheme of things 20,000 is nothing, really, less than nothing. GuildWars 2 sold 2 MILLION copies in its first MONTH.

    Whilst they weren't very "nice" about the whole thing, ultimately what more did you expect from a company that already had and continues to have money worries. An example of this was yesterday when someone tweeted about a newspaper article in the Korean times explaining the CEOs sale of the majority of his shares and this being the primary reason for its stock market slump. I'm no market expert, but it was there in black and white that it was the reason, and yet seemingly this was lost on the majority of everyone else saying what an amazing job the Unity Rally did. City of Heroes, wasn't even MENTIONED.

    Secondly, if you think the comments of the Anti-NCSoft movement is still all flowers and rainbows, you've seriously lost touch with what's going on. Again (and I realise that given it's my only source, my PoV is likely to be a little polarised) I was following #SaveCoH on Twitter until relatively recently. More or less without fail on a daily basis there were a handful of tweets linking to a news article and the tweeter encouraging everyone to comment bomb it. Not only that the stance of the posters was equally "listen to me or else". Honestly? I can almost imagine the NCSoft Christmas party being a round up of some of their favourites.
  22. I'm sorry. I've changed my mind, I am going to reply to this

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post

    I'm not responding to this to argue, so I hope it is read in a friendly tone...
    I see a mistake (that might be common) that could be the key in the divide some people seem to be expressing.
    Have to admit, I did miss that in the original read through, but noted.

    Quote:
    I don't think that the bit I highlighted is true.
    It gave us a place for all of our voices to be heard. At the time, we didn't know when the forums would be shut down or what was going on at all, really.
    It gave this entire community a single place to move to and to know we had no matter what NCSoft did. It gave us a single place to collect and represent ourselves - every single aspect of the same community that exists here, should they so choose.
    It was never, to my knowledge, about giving us a single voice.
    Now, most people tend to flock that way. Not I and not many many people that are amongst us in both communities, but it is true that the majority of people basically fall into being led (oh, how the English language makes puns all by itself).
    To clarify the "one voice" comment I made was largely metaphorical. Sure the Titan FORUM was the place that voice was largely heard, certainly in the initial stages and before the other avenues to which it travelled like Twitter and Facebook.

    Quote:
    And it can be detrimental. I saw it being detrimental in a different way. While there were certainly other people besides Tony heading efforts to stir up support, publicize our concerns and reach out to NCSoft, most people only took action if Tony told them to (this is not a knock on Tony whatsoever! I'd even seen him trying to get people to understand this and move away from thinking like that). It just made things a bit slower, because until Tony pointed the way, a lot of people wouldn't go ahead with something that someone else had already put together (and it also hurt when people may not have gone ahead with starting something, because they didn't realize that... they can do it without waiting for "official" approval).
    To clarify again, my beef was never with TonyV and to be honest I don't have any kind of axe to grind with Titan as a whole. However I just feel the anti NCSoft sentiment has gotten a little out of control and gone a little too far. This is what I feel is detrimental to what SaveCoH set out to acheive. YMMV

    Quote:
    Anyway, my point is not to criticize anything to do with the SaveCoH movement (nothing is perfect and I believe much good was [and still is being] created by us all gathering under the banner that the Titan Network helped us to create and maintain). My point is to criticize those that continuously lump SaveCoH/Titan as this hive-minded clan.
    It is no more so than any and every group that has existed.
    The problem is that unless you're actively involved with the details of the Titan network, that clan mentality can come across when it's presented to you "in the wild" as it were. From that point of view, people can be forgiven for thinking that because it can come across as such a universal point of view, it's endorsed by the people that run it. Whether they are right or not is generally not the point, because by then the real message is lost.

    Quote:
    We have a ton of individuals over there (just like here) with a bunch of different opinions, ideas and ways of doing things and I imagine it will stay that way (and maybe even increase once the game goes down).
    It's not supposed to be anything besides what we have here... except that we're all there to take actual efforts in bending and shaping reality into what we'd prefer, no matter the opposing force's powers to bend and shape it to their will.
    I don't mean to offend (genuinely), but whilst such tenacity can be and often is admirable, doesn't there come a point where that's just blind ignorance? Granted, that mindset alone doesn't hurt anyone else but you can surely see the point of view of people that think it's a little ... "unrealistic"? (Not the best choice of words, but the only one that comes to mind)

    Quote:
    That's tough stuff... and that's why the incessant negativity is so annoying... it's debilitating, honestly. When you're trying to actually, you know, do things... all of the why bother? Give it up! Not gonna happen! is just a complete waste of time and energy. And that is the only thing that has ever been universally dismissed under the SaveCoH banner.
    I do get that, honestly. I think a lot of the negativity comes from the "give it up already" mentality because people want to shield themselves from further disappointment. Again.. I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do that, but if you are going to have that do or die mindset, you need to bear in mind that other people will not only share it, but do what they can to avoid it, including trying to persuade you that what you're doing is a little fruitless.

    Quote:
    Anything else is fair game for discussion (within reason, of course, haha).
    And that ties into another aspect of what you've said here...
    Some people talk as though their ideas were not respected and there's no room for them there... If that is the case at all... it was more a matter of the majority of people disagreed with that "dismissed" argument.
    That minority can't dominate a majority with their views and opinions.
    You're right, they can't. And in those instances you've just gotta take it on the chin and move on.

    Quote:
    I have no idea if people see me as a member of SaveCoH, a leader in it or some fringe outsider or whatever! I honestly have no clue. I don't really have any strong ties with anyone on either "sides".
    I know where my heart and mind lies and I stick to being me.
    And if something goes down that I don't like, I let it be known.
    And if I have ideas, I share 'em.
    I don't need any credit and I don't care about any criticisms.
    I recognize that it'll contribute to the whole in whatever way it organically comes about.
    The thing is, even though I did take the p out of you for the gist of what you said there (for which I apologise), you're no different to me from that point of view. I don't say things to try and impress anyone, I just say things as I see them.


    Quote:
    This is the part that I've seen repeated and 1) I honestly don't know what tactical shifts took place that they're referring to and 2) don't know that we'd all agree what was wrong or right.

    I didn't see any tactical shifts, really.
    I saw a pretty reasonable gameplan suggested in the beginning. And I'd say it went pretty well.
    We acted as respectful as a large online game community can be.
    We reached out, we demonstrated and our efforts and demeanor were recognized in the gaming community/media.
    Agreed.. although from the PoV of tactical shifts, there was always that few who were itching to bring out both barrels and the larger community did rather well to keep those people reigned in. Unfortunately as time went on and the polite efforts were ignored there seemed to be the adoption of the "F**k it.. what have we got to lose?" mindset. And really, I think that's where it all got a bit out of hand.

    Quote:
    However, NCSoft remained silent.
    That's cool... Things continued...
    People criticized the SaveCoH movement as being too polite and friendly and nothing would ever get done that way.
    When things were lining up to get worse for what we wanted, Tony made the move to release personal emails of NCsoft top execs...
    Other people criticized this as being too aggressive and unfriendly.

    That actually got a response from NCSoft. Seemed like the right move and as good of results as we could realistically hope for under the circumstances.

    People continued brainstorming different ideas for now and the possible futures.
    People kept up the heat, mostly with polite public displays of love for the developers and the game and the community.

    A minority of vocal naysayers and all that continued to criticize.

    We got NCSoft's "final" response.
    Blah blah blah... here we are.
    Yup..

    Quote:
    You and I can disagree on what is or isn't appropriate conduct, but who are either of us to tell anyone that?
    If we're both people who "say it as we see it", then why shouldn't we?

    Quote:
    Save CoH is a group of people with different ideas amongst themselves.
    Most of the strictly following Tony died down some time after the "final response" and others took some initiatives in continuing exposure and avenues to sway things in favor of CoH returning.
    Not that Tony's efforts have stopped at all either. Just saying that the initial phase of waiting only for Tony seemed to lessen (a good thing... again, not because Tony is bad, haha, he's not... I think he's been great help beyond acknowledgment! It's just that I found people finally started doing more on their own... which I believe is a great thing as well).
    Like I say, I went on the Titan forums mainly just to keep tabs of the latest news. Once I "discovered" Twitter, I found that to be a much better summary of what was going on than wading through endless posts of things I really wasn't that interested in. My observations are therefore only what I saw from the goings on the #SaveCoH column. Perhaps I was wrong to assume that the two sources of information went hand in hand, but from what little time I spent on Titan, the same prominent faces appeared on the Twitter feed, so it seemed logical the two were linked.

    Quote:
    Titan Networks is simply a place for CoH Fans to gather in hopes that we will be able to play it (or something like it) again and that we may keep the community together.

    It's up to every single individual as to whether they want their aspect of the community to continue.
    And if they want to be a vocal dissenter among the majority of differently-minded people... they can go on and be that way, but don't run back here crying that they were unfair to you. You were just a tiny voice that wasn't praised. That's life.
    As I said, I was never really that involved in the Titan forums other than browsing, so that "tiny voice" thing doesn't really apply to me.


    Quote:
    I didn't take part in any mob of attacks on anyone and I pretty much avoid the ridiculous threads around here (other than to maybe pop in and post some humor now and then... or maybe to defend someone that I just happen to see being treated unfairly).
    Heh.. ironically, that's all I did too. Unfortunately that person was tagged as an undesirable, and so I was so tainted by association. But.. yanno.. I say things as I see 'em.

    Quote:
    No idea who might consider me a part of what, but that's on them.
    I'm me and I tell it like I see it...
    And your last comment there about prolific minorities and all that just comes off as bitter resentment towards some aspect of this community that I really don't know about.
    I can;t imagine I am considered a part of any such thing... as I may post a lot, but I rarely am replied to and I generally only reply to respectful, good and/or funny posts... while the rest of a thread is centered around replying to the most aggressive chains of replies.

    Again, that is just part of human nature it seems.
    I've been tempted to post two threads of the same ideas, but one worded hatefully and toxic... and the other kind and respectfully... and show everyone the vast difference in the number of replies (no doubt, in favor of the negative one).
    Bitter resentment? Maybe. However much I enjoyed playing the game over the years, the whole community thing I never really experienced, despite my efforts to take part. I dare say there'll be pictures of violins or tearful ponies or other some such ridicule, but the irony when people do that is it just fosters those feelings in the people that are affected by it.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
    Vyver, can you, or can you not, express, with complete non-objectivity, the emotional and psychological reasons why someone, in a position such as they may have been, might possibly attempt to create such a scenario, negative or not (such as they absolutely did - if you're saying that they did not, even though they did, you're lying - so, don't even try to say that they didn't)? If you don't answer me with complete agreement to my points it will show just how phony and/or stupid you truly are.
    .
    Why are posts like this even remotely necessary? Honestly.
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thunder Knight View Post
    ... it wasn't? Wasn't he the one who started that since-deleted thread by outright calling the Titan folks idiots and racists?

    Other than that, Electric Knight summed things up adequately.
    I'm only talking about the thread that was deleted this evening. I guess because he's already tainted it's impossible to take individual threads on face value?
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
    ... * snip*.....
    Good god.

    I'm not going to answer everything in that because there were just far too many words. I tend to skip through most walls of text, especially when they include things like "I'm just being me". Well of course you are. Who else would you be? Have a cracker.

    Essentially though, I will admit to forming my opinions largely on what I saw on Twitter by the people posting on #SaveCoH. And I will also admit that originally, I was one of those people. A bit of satirical sideswiping at NCSoft was initially quite fun and a rather nice way of letting of steam. It was also a good way to keep up with the news about the efforts to save the game without wading through all the other stuff that I had largely no interest in.

    Then there was a shift in the whole mood of things. It changed from light hearted digs into a full on smear campaign, and that's when I bowed out, because that emphasis isn't healthy (imo) doesn't reflect well on what SaveCoH is trying to achieve (again only from my point of view; others clearly have other agendas) and something I'd rather not be a part of.

    My point is, if as a regularly contributing member to that campaign I found the taste in my mouth soured by the activities of what seemed to be a vocal majority, how is that going to be perceived by the people who's hearts you're trying to win? And for the record why is it not our place to criticise if we think something is heading in the wrong direction? Criticism, constructive criticism at least, is how things get improved. Ultimately of course, whether that criticism is taken on board and actioned upon is down to the people that make those kinds of decisions, but please don't tell me it's not my place to make it.

    The only other thing the Titan forums seemed to be advocating in any volume was Plan Z. And as I've said in other threads, I do honestly wish the people involved the best of luck with it, but I've also seen similar efforts made before when support for a much loved game ends (for example back in the 90s a group had the idea to make an Interstate '82 mod for Battlefield 1942) and more or less without fail they get so far and fizzle into nothing. If in a couple of years something solid does come of it, all well and good, sign me up, but for now I won't be seeing this as any more than vapourware and will be placing my faith in something a little more solid.