Stateswoman

Statesman,

If you're still skimming, could you please please please with sugar and a cherry on top elaborate a little on some of the ideas you may be considering for how to improve Tankers across the board?

Just say before hand that nothing is set in stone and that you're not even sure at this point if all of your ideas are possible to implement at this point.

If people want to flame after that then they're just being contrary.

Just please share some of your ideas with us so we can have a little bit of insight into the big picture you're trying to paint and maybe offer a little constructive feedback before a lot of development goes on.

I think the vast majority of us understand that some things just won't be possible to implement, and that some things won't happen quickly and will require a lot of work, and that you really do have our collective best interests at heart.

Please share a bit with us if you can, even if it is just a lot of brainstorming right now. I'm not suggesting game design by commitee even in the slightest, I'm just suggesting a productive and constructive dialogue about the future of tanking in this game. We all know that in the end you have the final word and what you decide is for the best will be implemented.

Thanks so much for your time!

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Ya know it occurs to me that Statesman and Stateswoman never appear at the sametime.

Coincidence?

I think not.

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HEH! Gah, I wish. I would LOVE to work at a place like Cryptic on/around a game like this. Unfortunately, I wouldn't have the first clue about where/how to get started on a career in this industry.

YAY!

Thanks for the update Statesman!!

Just wanted to add to my comment about coming to play City of Heroes because I once enjoyed comics and the heroes I read about in them inspired me to try this out.

This is my first real MMORPG. I don't care that Everquest created this universal holy game design that the entire industry must diligently follow where something called a Warrior has to fill a meatshield role or the game fails. I never played Everquest, never even considered it. All the horror stories about so many facets of the game just turned me off.

I am definitely one of those customers who came to play here because of the lure of playing a comic-inspired superhero. The description of the Tanker archtype impressed me, and yes, my head did fill with visions of Supergirl.

Ironically, the VILLAIN Tankers in the game are a heck of a lot closer to what I was expecting to play than what the hero tankers have to offer.

I'm not necessarily asking for super-strength tankers to be able to hit for 800 points like a Freakshow Tank Smasher can, but it sure would be nice to have SOME oomph to a couple of our attacks right?

Gah, great post Silverblade! That statement about super-strength tankers hit the nail right on the head.

Who is the greatest arch-enemy of the super-strength/invulnerability tanker, that mindboggling nemesis who is constantly tripping them up, holding them back, continually pushing them to the brink of failure and providing the biggest roadblocks to filling their perceived role?

Themselves.

With friends like themselves, what Tanker needs any enemies?

Are there any other archtypes whose own power sets work against them in the way that super-strength / invulnerability tankers' do?

Seriously, is there any other Build Up power in the entire game that has a chance of getting the hero killed besides Rage? And that is just one of the many things that are borked with super-strength in this 'their-own-worst-enemy' design.

I love my main character Stateswoman, I love that she's a super-strength / invulnerability tanker because I came here inspired to play a superhero game from years of comic book reading when I was a kid. I continue to have fun with her because I roleplay first and foremost and I'll move on from the game before I change her to any other archtype.

I'm not going to fib that I'm not annoyed as heck that super-strength is the weakest of lines in its archtype, with powers that work against the powers of the invulnerability line, and have major negatives that few other archtypes have.

Blech.

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This would be cool on soon many levels.

Of course no one would ever group with Controllers again but ... *evil smirk*

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LOL - no kidding! But such a cool idea!

Different controllers could have different ways of doing it too. A gravity controller starting some sort of gravity field around the Tanker that sucks all nearby bad guys toward them for instance. I hope the Devs grab this one for the idea box!

Well, was making the suggestion with a couple of things in mind. Mainly the proposal that started this thread, which suggests moving Foot Stomp down to be available in the teens like Energy's Whirling Hands is. Foot Stomp fits the bill for causing some AOE damage that does some knockdown/back.

Hand Clap would serve a lot less purpose as it currently is at that point, and while I've really enjoyed it myself, many tankers seem to indicate it is a skippable power anyway. I can't really argue with that too much to be honest. It is pretty much fluff in its current form, but that's just my opinion.

Bonesnap,

Firstly, I disagree. Not every tanker absolutely has to have the same level of any aspect of Tanking. Some tankers should be better at certain aspects of tanking than others, making them different from each other.

That said, every Tanker secondary line DOES have an extra power that could be changed to be a superclap. Outside of Stone and Super Strength, that would include giving up an attack though.

Every Tanker secondary line but Stone and Super Strength has seven attacks. Stone and Super Strength have six attacks and Fault and Hand Clap as non-damage disorients.

If every other Tanker line gave up an attack to be modified, they could have something similar to 'superclap' too.

Energy - Modified Stun
Fire - Modified Combustion maybe? Incinerate?
Ice - Modified Frozen Aura or Frozen Touch
Battle Axe - Modified Whirling Axe or Pendulum
War Mace - Modified Whirling Mace or Crowd Control

(or any other power per secondary line that data mining shows just isn't getting used much, if there is one)

Now, right now I'm pretty sure every non-Stone or Super Strength tanker's head is spinning around like a top like that possesed girl in the Exorcist. I doubt anyone wants to give up an attack to have a 'superclap', but if you really want every Tanker line to be 'equal' and have the same or similar 'assets', then that is what would have to happen. All Tanker secondary lines would have six attacks and a themed 'superclap'.

Again, I don't agree that's the best thing though. I think it is perfectly reasonable that Stone and Super Strength tankers get a super-powered provoke ability to set them apart just as Axe and Fire have offensive capabilities that set them apart.

Bonesnap,

I think Krunch was primarily focused on Super Strength in collecting the suggestions and feedback here (re: the title of this thread). I would hope that if they decided to go ahead with the proposed changes to Hand Clap that they would make similar power changes for each of the Tanker lines.

My thought was that every Tanker should be able to provoke in a way that fits their line's theme.

What about a compromise (with the Devs) and make the upgraded Hand Clap have a hard 7 second recharge rate and NOT allow recharge reducers? So better than Provoke (hard 10 seconds), but also impossible to get down to the old quick recharges?

Skulker,

I was suggesting the lowered recharge rate as well. Basically, taking whatever positives there are in both powers (Hand Clap and Provoke) and combine them and keep the power name Hand Clap. Then put Hand Clap in the place Taunt currently resides in the SS line (so it can be taken early in the build, and then follow suit with similar powers for all tanker lines).

After the changes Hand Clap would be a 10 second recharge targetted AOE taunt that has knockDOWN and Taunt on successfully hit mobs. The power would allow Taunt Duration, Accuracy, Recharge Reduction, and KnockBACK enhancements.

I totally agree that the current Hand Clap recharge rate would not work even in the slightest. Combining Provoke and Hand Clap, taking and merging only the positives, would create a wonderful and beloved super strength power.

I would definitely keep Taunt in the secondary line. It has its single target pulling uses.

Keep in mind also that Hand Clap isn't a damage dealing power. People slot Provoke now, why wouldn't we also slot Hand Clap the same way with Accuracy, Recharge Reduction, and (hopefully) Taunt Durations.

My suggestion would be to take Hand Clap and make it include every aspect of Provoke on top of what it already does (which really isn't very much at this point).

So instead of wasting a power pool on getting Provoke, we'd all get Hand Clap and slot it accordingly (just like we already do with Provoke). So we'd keep 'provoking' and look a heck of a lot cooler doing it, and with neat side effects that aren't name-calling.

Following the proposal suggestion of bringing Foot Stomp down to Whirling Hands availability, among the other suggested changes, and we're on the right track.

Skulker,

What if Hand Clap was changed so that it worked the same way as Provoke? A targetted sonic blast basically?

My goal/hope is to incorporate 'Provoke' into the Tanker secondary lines in a fashion appropriate to the theme of that Tanker line. So Hand Clap would be like Provoke in every way that Provoke is like Provoke, but also continue to act similarly to how it has as Hand Clap.

Honestly, doing that would be more in line with how the rest of the power pools work anyway. Scrappers would still take Provoke, and Provoke would be a less attractive cousin to Hand Clap and whatever the rest of the Tanker lines get.

The more I think about it the more it just makes sense:

Make Hand Clap have an equal taunt to Provoke and replace Taunt with Hand Clap in the Tanker secondary (so it can be taken early).

Make Foot Stomp available by 16th, just like Energy Melee's Whirling Hands is.

Make Knockout Punch and Hurl our huge heavy hitter attacks, Knockout Punch available at the same time Energy Melee's huge attack is.

That, and the other changes in the proposal, definitely starts bringing Super Strength into line.

Statesman says he never wants to do anything that isn't FUN. Well, taunt and provoke are NOT FUN. They're situationally useful, but not fun. EVERY Tanker should be able to accomplish those effects in a way that makes sense for the type of tanker they are (super strength using hand clap to 'provoke', etc.).

LOL

Starsky and Hutch! "Doooo It! Dooooooooooo It!"

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You have my agreement and vote for these proposals! Now pray that they do not drill Unstoppable into (even more situational) uselessness.

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I really would be surprised if they felt they had to downgrade any Tanker primary to accept these proposals for the Super Strength secondary.

This upgrade would simply be bringing Super-Strength up to par with where the other Tanker secondaries already are.

I would love to see these changes implemented as well. Especially the opportunity to drop Provoke and replace it with Hand Clap.

The Freedom Phalanx

Theme: Roleplay of a diverse membership of new heroes that make up a division of the next generation of one of the world's greatest hero organizations, the Freedom Phalanx.
Membership: 40 (moderately active roster with alternates allowed and 20+ active at least a couple of times a week for a full session and/or for planned events)
Requirements: Mature Attitude Required, Roleplaying Encouraged and Preferred
Symbol: White Shield (Shield 2)
Colors: Blue and White

Today the Freedom Phalanx is the world’s premiere independent hero organization. They are one of the most open organizations in existence, allowing any would-be hero to volunteer for service with the esteemed group...

The Freedom Phalanx continues to rebuild and reform from the devestation of the Rikti War even as its selfless membership attempts to aid and support the rest of the world in doing so as well. Keeping with long time policy, young heroes are invited and welcomed to serve with the esteemed organization and its storied heroes throughout the world where ever there is need. In major cities around the globe, junior divisions of the world famous supergroup have formed to continue training under the supervision of senior members of the fellowship.

One such division has recently formed in Paragon City and is already acting under the supervision of the heroes known as 'the Surviving Eight', such as Positron, the Back Alley Brawler, and Numina. Led by Anna Anderson, a young hero from California also known as the Stateswoman, the burgeoning group has scored some impressive victories against the many villains who would do the great city harm.

Funding for the group's efforts is supplied in large part by the original Danger Girl, Samantha Bassinger (heiress to the Bassinger fortune and trade empire), who has recently retired to focus on the training of her mystically gifted daughter Ariel (who has recently taken on her mother's former mantle and place within the supergroup).

Further guidance and supervision to the young members of the newest division of the world's premiere supergroup is offered by Dr. Gideon McAllister, the now retired powersuit-wearing hero Patriot One (though an android hero of his creation that operates under his former moniker has recently appeared among the young group's ranks). Also acting in leadership roles are the Freedom Avenger, the Federalist, Silverstreak, and Kid America, among others.

Well, I can't say I've ever visited any of the local newspaper offices but I do have a couple of contacts who work for them. Why don't you try seeking out Kyle Peck in Steel Canyon? He is usually hanging around a bit west down the street that runs directly in front of the tram station from Atlas Park. I was just working with him on a story about the Vahzilok threat last night.

The devestation is the handiwork of a villian who blew the entire district apart with well placed bombs. Much akin to the disgruntled villian who used his inventions to destroy the district now known as Faultline. The area security chiefs will have more to share with you on them both. Unfortunately, not all of our efforts as heroes lead to victory and those two hurt sorely and remain as reminders of what we must be constantly vigilant against.