Spiritchaser

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Another question why are people so concerned about people farming it is wasted energy they are not going way just let them be

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I say let them farm. There'll be just that much more wealth on the markets for me to manipulate.

On the whole it's not bad, but my feeling is that it's just not adequately compensated for it's shortfall in performance when compared to WP or to SR, the other sets without offensive tools. I think invul is in much the same boat.

At least EA has it's niche now, something it didn't really have before.

One additional argument for buffing psi def in EA, rather than adding a +hp power or adding more HP.

Powerset Proliferation.

Presumably there will, at some point, be a blue side version of EA.

Yes, there's the double CP issue to deal with, and yes hopefully the modification made there can be extended usefully to the red side version of the set without offending anyone... but quite apart from CP, there's a good argument for making whatever additional minor help EA gets the kind of help that works against psi.

Part of the reason that EA is as problematic as it is has to do with its weakness to psi, and red side, there's no shortage of psi, in fact there can be a heck of a lot of it. This is much less of a problem blue side where you could probably play most of the game without seeing any, just by accident.

So: buff that heal, or add lots of HP, and you have a set that could end up being pretty darned monstrous on a scrapper. Add psi def? small buff blue side where it won't break things, big buff red side where it's needed.

Heck you could replace CP with a passive that gave some modest global endredux, some end drain resistance or -recovery debuff resistance and some psi def... that'd do it.

Still, even if we don’t know (and obviously we don’t know) it sounds far more hopeful and promising than many of the limitless other ways he could have phrased that.

Before Reading that, I’d have given less than a 50% chance of it ever happening. Now I’d guess a little higher.

Not until after they fix energy assault probably.

And Grav

MA? I could go either way on that.

I know the EA - devotees have talked about that in the past, There are a couple of concerns with it...

First off a few pros: it's definitely in keeping with the game's definition of what energy "is", it would provide a defensive "buildup" and it would potentially provide a massive defence boost to overload, probably enough to deal with quartz, which I think is about +100% thb, and probably enough to mess with rularuu... not sure about that. The heal in energy drain would presumably become much more effective, and of course there'd be that significant boost to primary powers...

Thing is, there are a lot of cons.

First off, there are actually players who like CP. In my experience most of them are stalkers, but even so, there are going to be players out there who built their characters as /EA because they didn't want to take fitness, and CP is an important part of that. This isn't to say that no set can change what it fundimentally provides, but I think it's a given that it should only do so if all other reasonable alternatives are exhausted, something that's pretty clearly not the case here.

There's also the massive disparity in how such a power modifies different primaries. Powers like fire, which probably need the most help from EA get nothing. Seismic smash and fault become more powerful than they already are, and that's saying something.

There's also the concern about strength. Is it actually too much? Well this one's a bit hard to know, since presumably the different defence toggles and clicks in EA can be flagged as not modified by PB as appropriate. It should be possible to come up with something tunable, but even so, does EA need much at all? if only a few powers are modified, then you're really just left with a primary boost, and the problem of disparity with primary set. Whatever it is, if anything, that EA needs it's probably not best if it's a rather random instrument like PB which most strengthens the builds which are already the strongest.

Perhaps before the IO change, and the heal buff to drain, this would have been a place to start, but I don't really see that as the case now.

Honestly, I don't think EA needs MUCH now. A little tweek to add more regeneration or HP early would be damn nice, and I still think that heal needs to be front weighted, or scale with foe rank, but that would probably do it. I'd trade that for psi defence instead of course, but somehow I don't see us getting that now.

There've been a lot of great suggestions for EA over the past 3 years that are probably mostly irrelevant now. Lets just hope that the best of them get incorporated down the road for new powersets. (like RTTC!) Not because EA is a lost cause, but because it's close enough now that any major cool new changes are likely to result in another willpower.

And we can't have that.

I always like to have at least one more hapless victim around (preferrably more than that) for more blue and now more green, but you probably have better end managment than I do.

Did you kite over some greys for drain fuel?

The most compelling thing I can think of doing with my SS/EA is that //mako blast brute that Auroxis posted a couple of pages back

That said there's probably still time to submit your name for thread-necromancer of the year award.

that title would look cool in your sig...

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Windowscapes: moon, undersea, stars, maybe even lava.

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This is my favourite

I want my base to “BE” somewhere. Not everyone lives in a bat cave. Medieval slit windows, round portals, monitors, Glass floors windows and a roof skylight can show views of a jungle, a desert, an ocean coastline

The shard, Eden, an infernal Pit (Bat-zul’s layer!) a snow covered mountain! (heh, secure? Try K2 for secure!, eat my 8611m heroes, ah hahaha… ahem)

More?

The ocean floor, a coral reef, a post apocalyptic wasteland, deep outer space, a temple crowned island…

A field of wheat. We’ll hide our base in Saskatchewan. No-one will EVER look there. (prairie thunderstorms extra)

I’m sure it’d be a huge effort but nothing would add atmosphere to my bases like… well, atmosphere!

Frost, of late, I've agreed with some of your posts, but this is not amongst them.

I've played brutes with every one of these sets in I6 and I7 except SR. (I played an SR scrapper, as SR brutes didnt exist)

Accro is not that large an end drain. Dark regeneration? potentially yes. Accro? no.

-def for SR might once have made some sense, but in recent times, SR is so utterly immune to -defence that it's not even worth talking about.

Both EA and shields can be extrordinarily powerful with enough IO sets. [edit: maybe stronger than they should be] They're both weaker than average without them. That's the way it is.

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And, NO set should ever be balanced around IO's. This should never be the intent as, according to the dev's, IO's are completely optional. So if this is the case, there is definately something wrong with EA still, and you just pointed that out.

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No, no set should be, but it would appear that this set has been

No. EA with IOs is.

This violates a few basic ideas about how sets are supposed to be balanced, EA is fair now, but only if one considers IOs in the equation.

For whatever reason, that's an argument that's less important to me. I'm inclined to just think... meh, close enough.

I would still only suggest EA to someone who's moderately comfortable with a calculator though.

EDIT: I'd also strongly, STRONGLY suggest that any /EA very seriously consider the soul mastery ppp. Darkest night basically rounds out the character, giving you a very solid line of defence against your soft spots. Again, existing theory is that patron pools shouldn't be needed to make a set function well, but /EA/Soul with IOs is just so complete now that I'm inclined to overlook that.

This is the big one though:

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All types of typed defense granted from Invention Origin enhancement set bonuses have been paired up and grant the same size of bonuses that were previously only granted to a single typed defense bonus. The paired up groups are: Lethal and Smashing, Fire and Cold, Energy and Negative Energy. Psionic defense remains in its own grouping.

• Invention Origin enhancement sets that grant typed defense (Lethal, Smashing, Energy, Negative Energy, Fire and Cold) will now additionally grant 50% of that bonus to a single positional defense (Melee, Ranged and AoE). Lethal/Smashing defense set bonuses will now also grant Melee defense, Energy/Negative Energy defense set bonuses also grant Ranged defense and Fire/Cold defense set bonuses also grant AoE defense.
• Invention Origin enhancement sets that grant positional (Melee, Ranged and AoE) defense bonuses will now additionally grant 50% of that bonus to a pair of typed defense (Lethal/Smashing, Energy/Negative Energy and Fire/Cold) defenses. AoE defense set bonuses will now also grant a bonus to Fire/Cold defense, Ranged defense bonuses will grant a bonus to Energy/Negative Energy defense and Melee defense will grant a bonus to Smashing/Lethal defense.

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better grab those kinetic combat IOs off the black market while they're cheep.

This one change alone is of greater benefit to EA than anything they're likely to do with the heal in ED.

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Is it supposed to be super strong to Energy like Electric is?
Is it supposed to be mediocre mitigation and have to buy more from pools with its End Recovery?
Why no Taunt in ED?
Why the same ED/CP combo?
Does the presence of Stealth and lower mitigation mean that EA isn't designed to be as tough as the other defensive sets on purpose?
What is EA supposed to be good at and what is the designed for average playstyle?

I'm sick of arguing. I want answers.

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Now on test:

Brutes

• Defense/Energy Aura/Energy Drain: This power now has a short taunt component and can be slotted with Taunt enhancements and IO sets.

I think things like wailers are going to be substantially easier with the buff, but wailers were never the real problem with an EA anyway.

How have you found carnie bosses, rularuu, quartz emanators, fortunatae, elder snakes, tarantula mistresses, earth thorn casters, rogue vanguard, succubi, PPD kheld bosses, those possessed scientists that drop tar, or even modest negative energy damage threats like death magi, galaxys, nictus and vampyri? (there are obviously more problems than these for EA, but this is a good start)

I’ve found that against most weak foes, I’m stronger. Against things that do negative damage, the extra heal brings me close enough to par as makes no difference, but against the primary threats? Not much better than before. Things that were problematic generally remain so post heal.

Again, I’d have preferred a buff that helped where help was actually most needed. I can still patch most of these rough spots with pools, IOs and mitigation from my primary and patron pool (toggle debuff ftw)

It is kind of eye damaging...

That said, it does let you run with fewer pool defences if you're fighting generally uninteresting foes.

It doesn't help me with the things I'd had problems with, but it does increase overall survival against the unwashed masses.

I'd have much preferred a buff that was a little more specific at patching up the holes, rather than a general buff... but after all this time, I'll take what I can get.

In a lot of ways, the provision of darkest night in the patron pools is a far greater buff to EA than the changes to the set itsself... only after level 47 of course.

EDIT: I wish darkest night for brutes would take taunt enhancers...

I'll wait untill we know more, that'll probably have to be open beta. I'm a little reluctant to believe the heal as it's stated is accurate, I'm thinking it's off by a factor of 10. If it's not, then... well we really have nothing substantial to complain about...

It's crazy, but... depending on what actually happens to those heal numbers, you could very well be right.

The irony and mirth will fuel me for hours of smash if you are.

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I just got a chance to check the real numbers for the changes to EA on the test server via character creation (since i can't log on all the way.)

according to the Real Numbers Energy drain will do 299.85 Heal to self. which will make it half as good as Dark Armors Dark Regen. but without the tohit check. This change should make Energy Drain just plain Awesome Sauce

and the toxic resist in energy protection is the same value as the energy resist

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Is there psi def? Can't seem to get that far on test.

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I'm assuming one of four things:

1. That heal value is fully saturated, vs. the single target value for DR

2. That value is a typo

3. The power has other properties or limits which prevent it from being as good as it looks. (maybe this is the PvP value?)

4. Someone has not fully appreciated just how good this is. If we get a heal that big, there’s no excuse for us to ask for psi def, energy def, or even a decent parking space. That value of a heal, in conjunction to end drain is monsterous. That’s why right now I’m guessing typo.

Either that or just... holy [censored]

EDIT AGAIN: could also just be a slipped decimal place. This is basically 10 times the value that castle announced...

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Actually the only thing I want to see added is a taunt aura. When SR was brought in last issue a taunt aura component was added to it, making EA the only Brute secondary without one.

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This is fairly important, and it's probably much easier on the comceptual side for /EA than SR.

You could quite easily throw taunt in drain, failing that, how about kinetic shield, with a -speed debuff to foe? (NOT recharge, just movement speed)

This has of course been suggested before. Doesn't imply it shouldn't be suggested again though...

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That's part of my point though. Being incredibly strong against your damage type is a theme of all the other elemental sets, so why shouldn't EA get that too?

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I don't think this would be nearly as important if EA was superb somewhere else.

But what is /EA really best at? Even with the proposed buff?

Is it going to be best against energy damage? No. Electrical will still have that title.

Is it going to be best at aggro control? No. DA still does better with it's stealth+perception and it's better aggro control with it's aura (it can have it's stealth and it's aggro too! plus it's just as tough as a slightly overaged 18% nickel maraging steel)

Is it best at endurance management? again no. Electrical gets all the tools, and it gets drain resist to boot

How about... anything?

Some might argue that WP is a generalist as well. WP is so very GOOD at everyting that not being the best at anything is a very excusable shortfall.

The proposed buff for /EA IS generalist, it's heal will help with all situations, but is it really good enough to forgoe any kind of specialty?

Well we'll need to play to be sure, but at this point I'm unconvinced.

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I am confused.

/ea has more combined defense and resistance to energy damage than most tankers, and all other brutes except electric armor and stone in granite.

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Frost, I'm fairly certain I know what you mean, but, at least for now, pre-heal, it doesn't have that much PROTECTION

I think we may need to come up for a word that means "direct mitigation that doesn't include healing or regeneration"

Then we can say something like the "insert phrase here" of energy aura is quite superior, and be telling the truth in a way that isn't going to get misinterpreted.

Now, after the buff, assuming it goes through as currently stated, EA will have fairly solid protection against energy in far more meanings of the word, and far more environments in the game.

EDIT: edited for clarity and truthiness

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Most if not all End drains are Energy Typed which is a defence that EA has in surplus. That is EAs priamary protection against end drains.

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I'd say most is too strong a word. Carnie death drains and their -recovery debuff (not strictly an end drain, but you get the idea) are not energy...