Snow Globe

That is my point, which Gaia seems to have skipped over in legal fervour.

I agree with both of these.

Of course I don't think some players understand that making seniority the choosing factor is a well defined term.

Possible definitions:
How long the account existed. Not really possible, as the game doesn't know that.
How long a player has had the global name. I don't think this is stored anywhere.
Vet rewards status. That is pretty complicated and might not be possible before their deadline.

No, I don't think I am. You are advocating a legal bullying tactic to affect a larger number of users because you feel you are at a disadvantage. The legal position is without merit because you are getting better service, but don't want to pay the cost associated with the upgrade.

The terms of service you agree to expressly state that the accounts belong to NCsoft, and if they really wanted to punish EU players (and I don't think they do) they'd just close the four EU servers. If legal action costs NCsoft enough, that is likely what would happen.

Advocating legal action is like cutting your nose to spite your neighbour. It can only serve to hurt yourself worse than what you are trying to achieve.

The point is that the only compensation you'd likely be awarded is a pro-rated refund (if that) and termination of your account.

I understand that you and others are venting your anger, but threatening legal action based on discrimination lessens both your position AND actual discrimination cases. I don't equate having to possibly change your global name (if you don't have a NA trial with the same in game global) to discrimination based on age, sex, religion, or disability.

Trying to put this change at the same level is, quite frankly, offensive.

It may not be relevant to your reasoning, but I'm looking at this from a professional programming perspective.

NCsoft has two lists of players. The larger list seems to be the NA list. The smaller list is EU user list.

What they are doing is taking the EU user list and adding it to the NA list. This affects less users in total (sadly for you, just the EU customers). Now to prevent the any possible damage to the new (merged list) as the computer inserts an EU customers record the program/database query checks to see if a conflict happens. If an existing entry (NA account or NA in game global) matches the incoming Account or Global Name the incoming account gets changed.

It isn't some vindictive person at NCsoft discriminating against Europeans, it is a simple mechanical process that achieves a unified account system for all players.

Actually it is completely relevant. It determines the level of court involved. What we are talking about is a blip. It is small claims court material, at most. What's a month's account in England? 20 pounds? 19 Euros? That is the MOST you'll get for wasting everyone's time. You'll be laughed out of court and told to move on.

That completely fails to meet the minimal requirements of a treaty, not a LAW. I take it that you are not a solicitor or trained in any legal system.

For BRITISH law, you might want to take a look at this site:

Discrimination - your rights ( http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governme...ts/DG_10014458 )

Not one of these things applies to what is happening here.

It goes further, and this kills the whole threat of lawsuit they can claim that they are helping European users:
Let's see:

• You claim to be at a disadvantage due to your geographical location (something that isn't covered by the way). Check.
• From NCsoft's perspective, EU users are at a disadvantage because they can't access 11 servers, and have issues accessing the test and beta server. Check.
• NCsoft is providing more access, therefore this is a positive action.

No they are not. All they have to do is claim positive action and the complaints have to be investigated (and they are), and all NCsoft has to do is come back and say "no, we're providing better access to our EU clients."

They've likely already vetted this with NCsoft Europe's legal team. They are likely to find the same thing I did: NCsoft would win this as the case is without merit.

There are crackpots everywhere. Your point? Again, NCsoft can show positive action and have the claims dismissed.

The difference is that you assume the courtesy was in any shape or form similar.

I know they charge. The problem that you seem to be missing is that no reputable solicitor would take the case, especially since it amounts to "fiddling small change".

1) I really don't think you understand the first thing about discrimination. You don't. Discrimination would be NCsoft terminating service specifically to one of the following groups: blacks, Asians, seniors, pregnant women, people that are missing a limb, Christian, Muslim, Gay, etc. You again fail to meet the most basic groups the legislation targets.

2) The costs of any court case far exceed anything a player might win.

3) Look up the results of people bringing court cases up against companies outside their jurisdiction. In nearly every case I found, the customer lost.

Care to put a financial amount to the loss? Remember you are "losing" a virtual item. So how was this in any way offensive to race, ethnicity, disability, sex, or age?

Might I suggest that you talk to a solicitor before making any baseless claims of discrimination?
I'm sure that most solicitors would laugh you out of their offices.

I can also tell you that small claims court will likely toss your suit out. To top it, all NCsoft Europe will have to do is claim technical issues beyond its control (ie a directive from the parent company and them trying to merge databases) and the judge will throw out your case.

It wouldn't get that far. I doubt that any solicitor would waste their time with this.

It would lead to situations like we are dealing with in this thread.

Check. No more butt-monkey.

Colorful, but good assumption.

I did just read that. Your point fails to even approach being related to that document.

No, it isn't.

Racial Equality Directive (2000/43/EC)

"Concept of discrimination1. For the purposes of this Directive, the principle of equal treatment shall mean that there shall be no direct or indirect discrimination based on racial or ethnic origin."


"direct discrimination shall be taken to occur where one person is treated less favourably than another is, has been or would be treated in a comparable situation on grounds of racial or ethnic origin;"


Unless you can prove that NCsoft is discriminating against a specific racial or ethnic origin, someone is bound to laugh you out of court if you tried.


If NCsoft said that German ancestry, Greek ancestry, Anglo-Saxons, or Celtic ancestry, were barred from playing the game then they'd run afoul of that directive. They are not doing that. They are modifying their terms of service in a way you don't like. As it stands, I have far more sympathy for Knightingale and Shadow_Kitty. I hope that the community reps can find out for them (and others) if they will be affected by a global handle conflict.

Okay, can we please separate the accounts from the global handles issue?

Adding 2 letters to the beginning of the account name isn't the end of the world and doesn't affect anyone's in-game identity. The fix is trivial by making another field in the account database, putting in region (NA or EU), and having a checkbox on the login screen so that the game knows the original region. This is 100% fair, as it affects every single player equally.

Onto the global chat handle. Yes, it is more likely for EU Players to have an inactive NA account. That is being addressed: You will be given a free reactivation weekend so you can log into your inactive NA account to change its global chat handle so that you can change your EU account's global chat handle. Effectively any EU player with a NA account has likely already protected their global chat handle just by taking that global handle already.

You keep using "fair" when the likely problem is potentially a question of "can we safely do this?"

Do you have a long inactive NA trial or NA full account that has already taken the global chat handle you want? If so, then you have nothing to worry about as you've already protected yourself.

No, they are the current data inside the collection. Programming speak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row_%28database%29

Well thanks for making the developer's job harder. Also in what way did you preform the "check"? If you find a global name by checking character names, then that fails because not all character names are global names. For instance I know that "Snow Globe" the character only describes me on 2/11 servers, but "Snow Globe" is my global handle.

If you tried renaming your global handle (the only real way that I know of to test to see if a global name exists), then on the first "successful" change that wasn't taken you would be prevented from "testing" further as you can only preform a chat handle change once.

I realize that. I'm just wondering (like Arcanaville) if they had already fixed this (preform checks on the opposite servers), if they are checking both servers now when a player changes their chat handle (which would give Quildo false-positives if he properly tested), or how soon those checks would be put into place if they are not.

Exactly, and the character database in this game is like a house of cards in terms of what can damage it.

Yeah, I would have instantly filed a petition as well. That level of abuse has no place in this game.

Going by veteran status isn't really unfair. It probably does pose a risk to character records though, given some things I know (or can guess) about the character database.

I do understand your worry, however I'm wondering how many players this will actually affect.

Actually, they said in the initial post that they were going to try to contact all those affected.

The thing is that I don't think that there are as many duplicate global names as you might think.

Here is the thing: Are you sure that you will be losing your global name or are you just worried that you might lose your global name?

I doubt that any discrimination law could be applicable in this case. I also ask you the same question as I did Knightingale: Are you sure that you will be losing your global name or are you just worried that you might lose your global name?

While I'm not a lawyer, I fail to see how this can escalate to an actionable level. It is sort of like a company that refuses to serve a customer until they are wearing a shirt and shoes.

Well, I'm from Canada. You know, that silly British ex-colony north of the USA. We tend to be fairly open minded about things.

Okay, as a NA player, I have some questions that might quell most (I doubt all) of the anger expressed in this thread:

Is there anything in place now to prevent a NA player from changing their global name to match a EU player (or the reverse)? If not, why not? As Arcanaville said, this should have already been put into place.

Is there any way to check to see if the global name is taken on the other servers? (Ie. Can I check if an EU account has "my" global name or can a EU player check to see if a NA account has "their" global name?) If not, why not? It would be a basic database query and it would lessen any fear, uncertainty, or doubt.

Does NCsoft/Paragon Studios know, right now, how many global names are affected? If not, why not? This is a basic database query.

Absolutely zero effect on super group names.

Sarcasm this blatant shouldn't need a tag.

Yeah, I don't think any of the gripes (except for one poster) are about the account name, only the in game global name.

That was Arcanaville.

Fair is in the eye of the beholder. A 7 hour time zone difference means that Euros have an large advantage. A 9 AM server "open" time in the Pacific Time Zone means 4 PM in London. So EU players are coming off of work, while NA players are just going to work.

I already inferred that already:
I fully expect that the cries of doom to be heard on Mars over that.

I would completely agree with this.

The answer to this might as well be "forever". It is as long as NCsoft sees fit. Given other MMOs, that means as long as the game has active subscribers, those names are locked.

Please read the original post:
That has already been considered and will be dealt with.

Sorry, I should have said that was specifically global names, not account names. Then again, I'm pretty sure you'll agree that anyone that has the same global name as their account name is an outright idiot that doesn't have the first clue about security. I personally put anyone that does that on the same level as the people responsible for the master account fiasco.

I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, the uproar in this thread is targeted at the global name, not the account name. After all, no one references other players by their account names (hopefully).

On the other hand, did you know that you can't change your game account names or permanently close trial accounts? Again, I place that little bit of incompetence at NCsoft's feet (where it belongs).

That would be a great way to deal with things.

The thing is that NCsoft's priority problem (account names) and players priority problem (global names) are conflicting.

So instead of being biased against the EU servers, you want it to be biased against the NA servers. There is that little thing called a "timezone" to deal with. Additionally, it opens new avenues for players to grief "well known" players.

You really want to fight the US population for codes? Seriously?

I'll point out that players have been trying to use this reasoning for allowing players to take "unused" character names too. Not that the reasoning above has stood up, just that the same arguments were used.

And the name clearances in the past were for characters under 35 (first time), and under 5 the last time.

I would also add that if I were in charge of this system, I'd also make sure that any inactive trial account automatically loses to a paying account.

On the other hand, thanks NCsoft for demonstrating the complaints that will be heard when/if a server merge happens.

Okay, that part is accurate.

I'm firmly believe that these films have nothing to do with the Highlander film, so they don't exist as "sequels" despite what the movie studios want people to believe.

They exist as attempts at movies, yes, but not sequels to the film. I even got ripped off watching the first three. A 2nd year University student could write a better script than "the Quickening" or "The Final Dimension". I can't be convinced that "Endgame" wasn't written by a failing high school student.

I find it funny that people are telling me that Highlander sequels exist, especially when I made a second claim in the same post.

You shouldn't have been able to be in Fort Trident while you are a vigilante. Fort Trident is "pure hero only", just like the Crucible is "pure villain only".

I have at least one long time (5+ years) friend that is locked out of his account and has probably switched to Champions over this.

I strongly suggest that NCsoft gets its head out of the sand and get some competent security people to fix this debacle.

There are Highlander sequels? I only know of one Highlander movie. I know attempts were made, but there hasn't been an actual sequel made.

As the movie says, there can only be one.

Most University level web programs have access to the Adobe Suite, so Flash or Premiere might be available on the school's computers. And student discounts on software might be had, The_Sarge might want to talk to his faculty adviser about any potential discounts.