SnakeGandhi

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Heh. Why do you think toggle dropping was added in the first place? Because the 30% unresistable damage wasn't nearly cutting it.

[/ QUOTE ]30% unresistable damage wasn't cutting it when resists where 2 to 3 times higher than they are now.

When toggle droping was first introduced, Tanks could hit Energy and Elemental resists in the 60-88% range. Now its more like 25-30%*. Scrappers are even lower.


*Granite Tanks are the execption, but with the -damage, -recharge and -speed debuffs they suffer, they aren't exactly a huge threat in PvP. If you don't want to fight a Granite Tank, walk away. Its not like he's gonna catch you

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I eat break frees all the time on my scrapper and tanker. This is because there are holes in their status protection - fear and confuse for my tanker, and confuse for my scrapper. However, I have a perfectly good power that should make break frees unnecessary for most uses of holds, stuns, and sleeps. Do you think that it's unreasonable to want a power that protects you from these effects to actually protect you from these effects? If you want to break my status shield, grab a goddamned controller.

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"You should need a team to beat me solo."

[/ QUOTE ]Where did kali say that? Seems to me Kali's saying that if you want to overcome a power designed to protect you from being mez'd, use the AT designed around mezing.

And its funny people have no problem with Scrapper, Tanks and Brutes spending power choices and slots on these toggle defenses and mez protection powers, and having them being completely negated by toggle drops.

If melee AT's have to carry as many BF's as folks without mez protection, why are we wasting a power choice and slots on are mez protection? Is it so f-ing unreasonable for a power that protects us from mez, actually give us some protection from being mez'ed? (And this issue is the only good thing about being SR, as Practiced Brawler can't be de-toggled, though it has been overpowered before. But seeing as how it took a couple Stalkers stacking Stuns or a Dominator to do it, that's fair in my mind.)

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Are /fire and /ice defeating you in the same mannor?

[/ QUOTE ]You know, I don't recall ever seeing a /Fire or an /Ice Blaster in PvP.

I know I haven't seen any of those secondary's used against me. Well, at least not the melee attacks.

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SnakeGandhi, with a good many Tankers stating that 'balance' is needing a team to kill them, with a good many Brutes saying that they'll go back to PvP now that they don't need to worry about Blasters anymore...

I can't see how you blame Concern.

[/ QUOTE ]And what about having an /EM Blaster kill me over a dozen times and laughing at me and my SR Scrapper? What about Castle telling Scrappers and Tanks they might as well not have secondary's in PvP? What about when a Blasters first shot drops my defenses, and I'm dead before they turn back on? What about being immoblized and taunted while a Blaster stands 10 feet away and blinks you to death? Charging into melee, what my supposed specialty is, and getting my [censored] kicked every time by an /Elec Blaster? And then being laughed at and told to make a Blaster if i want to PvP?

You want to talk about folks being [censored], you can look at both sides.

And where are these 'good many' Tanks saying it should take a team to kill them? The only Tanks I've seen in PvP have been Inv Tanks, and they where leading teams. They contributed by directing folks and taunting guys off the squishies, but when it came down to it they fell pretty damn quickly. I know my Inv/SS Tank only survives when Unstoppable is running.

But no, all the melee AT's are [censored] godmoders, all the Blasters are innocent respectful gentlefolks, and the overpowered Scrappers and Tanks rule this game with an iron fist.

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Because we have been told over and over and over and over and over and over and over that this is not balanced for one-v-one. By definition, that means that one-v-one is imbalanced for some pair-offs. I don't remember anyone saying that Blasters had a special place as an AT that could take on just enyone else and win.


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It would be really nice if melee remembered that they need a team too. Even now in SC it is incredibly easy to get kills with a BRUTE if you have a team behind you. A couple of corruptors and toggle drops are laughable since the blaster that attacked you in melee is dead before he figures out why your not.

Thats okay though, just keep telling blasters to get a team. Remember when Tanks got extra damage? Remember when they took away the lack of mobility? There is always a flip side. Enjoy being overpowered while you can, cry when the other shoe drops like melee always does.

[/ QUOTE ]I was going to respond to this, but after reading this and your posts on the thread on the Blaster boards about the same topic, its pretty obvious you have some kind of hate-on for folks who play Scrapper and Tanks.

In that case, I'm just gonna ignore you and talk to the resonable folks about the subject.

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3. So long as blasters have low defense, they should have high damage. If they are at higher risk in melee range, they should have higher damage in melee range. This supercedes "melee fighters should do the most damage in melee range." That sentence is *not* synonymous with "melee fighters should be the most effective fighters in melee range."


[/ QUOTE ]I'd agree with Blaster doing more damage in melee, as they don't have a defensive secondary and therefor have more risk entering melee comabt.

However, the prevelence of toggle dropping pretty much removed those defenses from play, which removed the Scrappers, Tanks, and Brutes supposed advantage.

Hell, when a dev posts and says Scrappers and Tank should fight like their defenses aren't there, something is seriously wrong.

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So here’s my challenge:

(1) Explain exactly WHY an AT with so many melee powers in all their different secondaries should not be effective in melee.

(2) Explain exactly WHY it is bad for a brute’s secondary powers to be ineffective in PvP, but it’s OK for blasters’ secondaries to be made ineffective.

[/ QUOTE ]Last time I checked, those Blaster melee attacks still did a heck of a lot of damage. Far as I can tell, the toggle drop rate changes didn't remove any of that damage.

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OK, so it sounds like blasters’ melee-based secondaries are considered effective in PvP.

So then why are so many melee players saying that it’s unfair for blasters to be effective in melee range? (Not singling out Uberguy or Snakegandhi as saying this.)

I guess it’s this point I’m interested in addressing.

I understand the many posters who are saying that current toggle dropping levels are too high. I can see that now. Yes, I have actually come around to agree with the other side in a forum debate! I think that the proposed changes are too much, but I can see that some change is necessary.

Still, that doesn’t address what I see as a significant problem with the perspective of many (not all) melee players here. That’s the attitude that says “blasters should not be as good at melee as I am.” or “I am a brute, squishies must all fall before me or there’s something very wrong with game balance.”

[/ QUOTE ]Because Blasters have Range and Melee. Scrappers, Tanks, and Brutes have Melee and Defense.

I don't think its to unfair to ask that the AT's that are made for and restricted to melee fighting be the best at it.

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So here’s my challenge:

(1) Explain exactly WHY an AT with so many melee powers in all their different secondaries should not be effective in melee.

(2) Explain exactly WHY it is bad for a brute’s secondary powers to be ineffective in PvP, but it’s OK for blasters’ secondaries to be made ineffective.

[/ QUOTE ]Last time I checked, those Blaster melee attacks still did a heck of a lot of damage. Far as I can tell, the toggle drop rate changes didn't remove any of that damage.

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It is "inexcusable" that my blaster must carry breakfrees dammit!


[/ QUOTE ]But it was fine when Tanks, Brutes and Scrappers, who spent a power on their mez protection, had to carry them as well?

Its funny that you have no problem with toggle dropping rendering most melee AT's entire secondary/primary useless. And that it seems Blasters are supposed to be able to out-melee the melee AT's.

Any chance we can get a Harrowed Epic AT?

Amy Amazing, Virtue Server