Smurch

For the hardcore PVPers, your being in the zone is blood in the water.

We have a big divide in this game between Hardcore PVPers, casual PVPers like me, and everyone else, with the hardcore folks waaaay out on the far end of the spectrum. The gulf between each group is really really wide and there needs to be some way to make that curve alot less steep.

It is a woefully unfortunate aspect. I really wish there were some way to make those aspects more "fluff-friendly".

I tried making macros of some various threats and oaths and banter to use in PVP, but everyone just complained about "chat spamming"

I still say this is poor sportsmanship. You start a fight, you finish it. It's bad form to pick a fight then leave when it doesn't go your way.

Yeah, they probably do. Running won't save you in that case, and they don't care if you fight back or not.

Pre I-13 wasn't even so bad in places like Bloody Bay. It wasn't until Siren's call where things were out of hand with the movement gimmicks and the like.

It gets better.

Actually, there are some CoV mission texts that either outwardly state that you're killing someone or which strongly imply killing

While a character can slot the same (full or partial) set multiple times in different powers, he cannot benefit from more than five copies of each named set bonus of the exact same attribute and amount.

See
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inventio...e_Law_of_Fives

For full explanation.

Personally, I would prefer if someone just asked to be left alone rather than run away. If someone nicely asked me to leave them be, I'd do that. If someone runs from me, however, and if I think I can catch them, I will. No Mercy.

Asking nice, sure I'll oblige, but running is like blood in the water. The good news for them is I'm not usually good enough at PVP to stop them long enough to kill them. But I might.

EDIT: That's not entirely true. Odds are in most cases I'll be too lazy and impatient to pursue, but if I'm feeling especially bloodthirsty, yeah I'll try to run 'em down.

If someone actually started RPing with me in PVP in character, I'd stop fighting and weep with joy and thus be easy pickin's.

PVP needs alot of work in this game, no doubt about it.

If it did, then that'd at least be something. Probably too exploitable tho.

Ok, maybe the problem is that you came into this conversation late. Let me reiterate. There's two separate things I have a problem with. Let me clearly define them:

1.) The example I cited was a tanker attacking my brute when I came out of a mission in Bloody Bay. We started to fight, I started to win, so he ran away. This strikes me as being a poor sport. He PICKED the fight with me, and then refused to finish it. He's either afraid of losing or a bad sport and just refuses to let anyone else win. Either way, it's bad form. Once you start a fight, you finish it. It's disrespectful to your opponent to tip the board when the game doesn't go your way. Give them their well-earned victory.

NOTE: this applies to people who actively engage in PVP, often as the aggressor, then refuse to play it out unless they receive an easy win, otherwise they're gonna take their ball and go home. AND ONLY THOSE people. If you're not one of them, then I'm not talking to you.

2.) People who go to PVP zones to PVE and then feel entitled to NOT BE ATTACKED AT ALL and have a chip on their shoulder about people who attack them in the PVP zone. People who expect someone to ask them nicely if they'd like to fight or leave them alone and feel that they have a right to this. Anyone who attacks them in the PVP zone is a jerk, and they shouldn't be "forced" into PVP like that.

These two things are mutually exclusive.

I hope that clears things up.

I don't agree with that either. It's possible to fight to a draw in PVP, where neither of you can damage the other enough to get a win. I've had that happen twice. We bowed and decided to stop fighting. But we didn't deny each other the fight.

Conceding the match in PVP would be dropping toggles and letting them get the win. That's the game mechanic to conceding the match. Running away is tipping the board.

Agreed. I never said otherwise.

Actually, I wouldn't (too much trouble to avoid what is essentially a non-issue.) But again, this isn't the situation I was talking about. Go back and re-read my posts. My compaint has always been about people who meet these THREE CRITERIA:

1.) They actively engaged you in a fight. that is, they were in fact fighting. They may even have initiated the fight (go back to see the example I cited when I first started posting on this).
2.) they decided at some point to run away.
3.) they then ran away and then LEFT THE ZONE.

Unless all three are true, then it doesn't apply to the situation I'm discussing.

If you don't want PVP and are unwilling to participate in it, you have no business being in the zone in the first place. You're consenting to PVP by entering the zone, explicitly and implicitly, and then if you change your mind you're essentially going back on that agreement. You're tipping over the chessboard rather than lose your queen. It's poor sportsmanship to agree to play a game and abide by the rules of the zone then refuse to play the game when it doesn't go your way.

I'm not so sure I agree with this. I think Scirocco's plan needs to be stopped, and anyone would agree with that. Do you really think that any one man, no matter how good intentioned, should be allowed to reshape the world and the people living in it? Do you really?

Scirocco's plan is downright chilling, especially when you see his "improvements" on Ice Mistral.

I think even heroes would want to stop him.

Does the term "poor sportsmanship" rankle your hide any less? Because I'm willing to sub it out.

But that's it. they're not trying to win: they're trying to ensure NO ONE wins. They're trying to spoil the game for someone else.

If you're playing chess with someone, and they make a bad move and lose their queen, so they tip the board over and knock the pieces to the floor, do you consider that good sportsmanship? Is this an admirable trait in your eyes?

The "IF I CAN'T WIN, NO ONE WILL!" mindset is being a poor sport at best and being spiteful at worst.

If your motivation for running is to deny your opponent victory, that sounds spiteful to me. It's being a bad sport.

That's a very different situation and you know it. There isn't someone else trying to fight you that you have your travel powers surpressed against for several seconds at a time who is probably using immobs and holds to try and keep you around. At that point, I'd probably just let them kill me to get it over with, yeah. But since we don't have all that going on in PVE, it's not worth it. Plus PVE has debt. PVP doesn't. That factors in too. That said, if I could self-destruct and rez in any hospital in any zone? Yeah I'd be doing that.

True story, in age of conan, travel at lower levels was a major pain. Before they nerfed it, it was possible to rez at any rez point in the zone if you'd previously been there. This led to a common practice of jumping off cliffs and dying to be able to traverse the zone faster. It was widespread enough that they removed that option and forced you to rez at the nearest rez point (which, in some instances, was still better to jump off a cliff to get to). Entire groups of people would be diving off cliffs like lemmings.

And that game had death penalties, too.

Of course, instead of making horses available at a lower level for a lower cost, the devs just forced you to walk. Thanks guys.

Yeah I already added "spite" to the list.

I agree completely.

I don't have any purple IOs on any character anywhere and have yet to run into anything in this game that made me need to pull out shivans or nukes. I got shivans once, way back in the day, because all the cool kids were doing it, and I just simply never actually used them, so now I don't even bother.

They're seriously overrated, at best.

You don't run back to your base then leave to zone to set up ambush bait
You don't run back to your base then leave the zone to feign and attack

Neither of those are relevant to the situation I was describing.

The situation I am describing is when someone is in a PVP zone away from their base. Someone attacks them, they flee back to the base then leave the zone.

In situations where people are running but NOT leaving the zone, for purposes OTHER than avoiding PVP all together (tactical retreats, ambush bait, etc) then those are not the situation I'm discussing.

In this situation their stated desired outcome is to leave because they're "not interested".

If that were true, the logical answer would be to drop toggles and let the other person just kill you because you can then leave faster rather than trying to run, having travel surpressed, being held or immob'd (even if for a couple of seconds at a time). It's actually pretty complicated to run away and escape all the way back to your base from someone who has even a small clue about PVP once you've been engaged in a fight.

The reason to run is if you have a vested interest in NOT LOSING. There are no game mechanics to punish you for losing to players, so there's no game reason to run. The "it's not fun" argument fails because that would suggest that running away IS fun. If that were true, I'd expect they'd continue to come back so they could run away more. The only conclusion is the person is avoiding some form of perceived punishment from losing in PVP. Avoiding punishment, perceived or otherwise, is pretty much the definition of fear.

ergo...

People run in PVP out of fear. Fear of losing, fear of being ridiculed, fear of... who knows what, since it's already an irrational act it could have irrational reasons.

EDIT; I suppose you could also run if you want to deny the other person a victory. So we can add SPITE to the list, too.

You don't see the irony of claiming that blanket statements are always false?
Really?

And I've only once been in a situation like you describe. Most of the time, I'm not beset upon by Uber-PVPers who have tricked out builds and clever kill zone traps. In my experience those are the exception and not the rule. And honestly, running from them will do you no good. They have a battle plan that doesn't require your participation for you to die. They just need to target you. By the time you see them, it's already too late.

I'm the definition of your "borderline" player. I'm not really a PVPer, at least not in this game. I do PVP in other games alot, but PVP here I don't really think is a huge draw.

My expectations (based on my experiences) in a PVP zone are thus:

If I enter the zone, odds are no one else will be there.
If someone else is there, odds are, I'll never actually see them
If I do see them, odds are they'll run away and zone out the second they see me.
If they don't run away and zone the second they see me, we'll probably fight
If the fight goes bad for them, they'll probably run. I probably won't catch them if I give chase, so I probably won't. But I might try. If I do catch them, I'll probably win because they'll be too focused on running.
If they don't run, I'll probably get killed because I don't have any PVP specific builds or battle plans, but you never know, I might just win.
If I win, I'll be happy that I won and continue about my business. Rinse, repeat.
If I get killed, I'll be happy if I at least made a good showing in the fight. I'll take the opportunity re-stock on inspirations while back in the base then go about my business. Rinse, repeat.

There is, functionally, no difference between clicking "go to hospital" and running back to the base. Both end up with the same end result: you back in the base. If you're resigned to ending up back in the base anyways, there's no good reason not to at least fight back and maybe get in a few good licks, and who knows? You might surprise yourself and win.

Win or lose, send your opponent a tell thanking them for a good fight and you'll likely make a friend out of it. Every PVP match is a chance to make another friend. So many people are used to hearing nothing but whining and trash talk, that if you show a bit of sportsmanship it will usually bring out the best in others. Some people will remain total jerks, but total jerks are always a vocal minority. Most people, even PVPers, are just people like everyone else.

Now if you had said "some" of what I said was wrong, or even "most" of what I said was wrong, then you might have a point. But as it stands, this is a blanket statement and thus is false.

Yes.