ShrikeX

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Ice/dark Necro/dark necro/ta Dark/dark and other controllery MM's and corruptors arent going anywhere. They give up damage for that control, but they still do more damage than dominators.

Heck any MM can outdamage any pre pet dominator by a large margin and even post pet dominators by a moderate.

Necro/dark and Necro/ta have some really good control. And much of it soft like tar patch and glue which werent nerfed to heck in the controller nerf.

Dominators are in a bad place compared to the controllerMM's and cor's.

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their control is very questionable. The recharge and activation times for ice/dark are horrible in comparison to dominators.

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Ok, so in a vain attempt to calm this thread down, I would like to ask if anyone has succeeded in creating a Double Domination situation outside of the two posted here that involve the destroyed lab equipment hasten boost?

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The numbers posted earlier showed that hasten plus 2 speed boosts would result in a overlap of domination.

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Got to see my first (and hopefully not last) instance of double dom.

The team I was on blew up a piece of lab equipment and received hasten. Next, one.... more hasten! The plant/ice dom with us clicked her own hasten. Three hastens and a full dom bar...... It was so beautiful. I swear it almost seemed like eight minutes before they finally lost all their domination bar. The damage was crazy good, and I just quit fighting so I could watch them go nuts.

I think it'll take a solid three months til brute SMASH seems good to me again. >.<

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Nice thats the same thing that happened to me.

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If you gain all of that.... AND controller level holds.... That will NEVER happen. NEVER! Think about it, you would be able to hold just as much as a controller... and do 500000x the damage. I'd be pretty mad, even though I have a dominator, that just goes WAY too far.


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Why would you be mad, this makes no sense? We already have poor damage. Controllers have superior hold times and awsome secondaries to fall back on if control fails. What do we have if control fails? Absolutely nothing. This is why we should have superior controls compared to controllers. Our domination power should have just been icing on the cake and not just a power we live and die by. Honestly would it have really hurt anything if we had controller length holds, critical mez and domination? No it would not, it would make us a little more wanted on teams. We would have reason to finally take those area holds since now we can get them to last a bit longer. Now I would say we would have a huge problem if they gave us containment, along with the before mentioned stuff. That would be going over board.

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And you don't have awesome secondaries to fall back on? Dominators can hold an enemy, making it unable to act, THEN use some blaster powers to quickly take the enemy down. BUT NOW you want the same holds as controllers, MORE damage, and still have domination to raise your damage AND controls up even higher! Oh and I have heard that "dominators need more hp" So now you want controls that could challenge a CONTROLLER's controls, damage that could eventually challenge a blaster, AND more HP than both of them. Sounds pretty selfish

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Umm, dude, have you ever played a dominator past, say, level 20?

And I see you have 2 high-level controllers in your sig, but let me ask you, are those pre or post-containment trollers? If pre, do you remember what it was like back then playing a sub level 32 troller? I do, and it wasn't fun. Trollers were squishy, did little damage, and their defender secondaries were of little use in taking out bosses they couldn't hold for more than a few seconds at best. It was very hard to solo a troller back then, so you were pretty much relegated to teams till you got your pets.

Now with containment trollers can do significantly more damage (at the expense of control) which makes them a lot more soloable. Add in the defender secondaries and now they rock on teams too. What they lack in control they make up with double damage and buffs/healing/debuffs.

But dominators aren't so lucky. The can't control as well as controllers (whose controls now suck as it is), meaning it's just not feasible to "hold" a boss, let alone an EB/AV/GM. Domination helps alot in getting that inital boss hold to stick, but in reality it just doesn't last long enough to be overly useful. If you slot your hold for holds, then they last longer, but do less damage, making it more difficult to actually defeat the boss you're holding. If you slot damage into your holds then you can't hold them as long and you're going to take more damage over time. It's a lose-lose situation, IMO.

Couple in the fact you don't have defender secondaries, but blaster secondaries (perhaps the most reviled sets in the entire game) that don't do anywhere near blaster-level damage, and it's an all around "meh". I mean, most of those secondary attacks are MELEE attacks -- on a toon with sub-par damage, no defenses, and no buffs/debuffs. And the devs wonder why so few people play them and no one wants them on teams?

IMO I think dominators should have BETTER control ability than controllers to make up for their lacking in everything else. As it is now their control is worse, their damage is perhaps on par (due to their secondaries), but they have none of the benefits of the defender secondaries.

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QFT

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If you're QFT then I really wonder if you have ever really played a dominator before. You can't hold bosses? This is some weird new symptom


ANYWAY...

enough of the derail. Who is working on the numbers for the recharge discount of am and sb etc to find out how much it would take to stack domination?

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If you gain all of that.... AND controller level holds.... That will NEVER happen. NEVER! Think about it, you would be able to hold just as much as a controller... and do 500000x the damage. I'd be pretty mad, even though I have a dominator, that just goes WAY too far.


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Why would you be mad, this makes no sense? We already have poor damage. Controllers have superior hold times and awsome secondaries to fall back on if control fails. What do we have if control fails? Absolutely nothing. This is why we should have superior controls compared to controllers. Our domination power should have just been icing on the cake and not just a power we live and die by. Honestly would it have really hurt anything if we had controller length holds, critical mez and domination? No it would not, it would make us a little more wanted on teams. We would have reason to finally take those area holds since now we can get them to last a bit longer. Now I would say we would have a huge problem if they gave us containment, along with the before mentioned stuff. That would be going over board.

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And you don't have awesome secondaries to fall back on? Dominators can hold an enemy, making it unable to act, THEN use some blaster powers to quickly take the enemy down. BUT NOW you want the same holds as controllers, MORE damage, and still have domination to raise your damage AND controls up even higher! Oh and I have heard that "dominators need more hp" So now you want controls that could challenge a CONTROLLER's controls, damage that could eventually challenge a blaster, AND more HP than both of them. Sounds pretty selfish

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Umm, dude, have you ever played a dominator past, say, level 20?

And I see you have 2 high-level controllers in your sig, but let me ask you, are those pre or post-containment trollers? If pre, do you remember what it was like back then playing a sub level 32 troller? I do, and it wasn't fun. Trollers were squishy, did little damage, and their defender secondaries were of little use in taking out bosses they couldn't hold for more than a few seconds at best. It was very hard to solo a troller back then, so you were pretty much relegated to teams till you got your pets.

Now with containment trollers can do significantly more damage (at the expense of control) which makes them a lot more soloable. Add in the defender secondaries and now they rock on teams too. What they lack in control they make up with double damage and buffs/healing/debuffs.

But dominators aren't so lucky. The can't control as well as controllers (whose controls now suck as it is), meaning it's just not feasible to "hold" a boss, let alone an EB/AV/GM. Domination helps alot in getting that inital boss hold to stick, but in reality it just doesn't last long enough to be overly useful. If you slot your hold for holds, then they last longer, but do less damage, making it more difficult to actually defeat the boss you're holding. If you slot damage into your holds then you can't hold them as long and you're going to take more damage over time. It's a lose-lose situation, IMO.

Couple in the fact you don't have defender secondaries, but blaster secondaries (perhaps the most reviled sets in the entire game) that don't do anywhere near blaster-level damage, and it's an all around "meh". I mean, most of those secondary attacks are MELEE attacks -- on a toon with sub-par damage, no defenses, and no buffs/debuffs. And the devs wonder why so few people play them and no one wants them on teams?

IMO I think dominators should have BETTER control ability than controllers to make up for their lacking in everything else. As it is now their control is worse, their damage is perhaps on par (due to their secondaries), but they have none of the benefits of the defender secondaries.

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Do you have any idea what you're talking about? We can't hold a boss? All it takes it 2 applications...thats the same for controllers, its about magnitude. The duration scale difference between controllers and dominators post 20 is nearly insignifigant.

The reason we don't have defender secondaries is .... WE ARE NOT CONTROLLERS. Get over that. We do not have blaster secondaries, we have assualt secondaries which are a combination of blaster primaries, and tank secondaries. There is some overlap in blaster secondaries but not a whole lot (ie fire blaster primary powers (flares, fire blast, fire breath, blazing bolt blaze) that leaves consume, fiery embrace (amazing power) and combustion. Three powers out of 8 gee.) Also since when is /nrg for blasters reviled?

Again this doesn't make the power perma, it just made it stackable. It took some time in my first domination burst for the domination icon to be ready again (20 seconds later I died). I would assume that the overlap is going to be brief. I have no idea what kind of buff that crey "object" temp power gave me in terms of recharge ability. Or how it stacked with hasten and 2 doses of AM. If someone could generate the amount of time it would take to recharge domination based on those buffs it would be interesting to see math wise.

oh wahhh, its not like its a huge bug even if it is a bug. Again the only way I was able to make it happen was with 2 rad corrupters, hasten, and the temp power for the crey map "objects". I have a feeling you need a whole arnsenal of /rad or /kin to replicate that temporary power.

It was still pretty freaking cool, just wanted to relate a story is all.


Oh and to all those complaining about the game being buggy and lack of dev response that is trolling. This thread was strictly for the discussion of achieving overlapping domniation.

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Well the real question is, does double stacking domination mean that when the first wears off, the bar stays up so that you can keep firing it. I don't know too much about domination so I don't really know.

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as long as it is recharged and the bar is full you can fire it off again.

oh and FE blaze did almost 400 damage. Freakin nuts.

As long as the domination bar is full, you can hit domination if its up. So you don't need to refill the bar again.

i held Valk through the purple triangles then proceeded to die. Typical domination style (other mobs were pissed).

WOW!
I was just on a valkerie AV team with the normal crey lab set up. There was lab equipment you could destroy as usual and one of them gave me a form of hasten. We had a /rad corr on the team who gave me ra, and I hit hasten. Well at the same time domination was queued. I popped it about 30 seconds before valkerie came at us. then you wouldnt have beleived it, the icon was ready to press again. The power status icons showed domination stacked.

Let me tell you. Absolutely unreal power. Would be fun to get a team of /kin's together to stack sb on doms. 4 doms, 4 /kins. See how many times you can stack domination.

I hope its not a bug.

meh. Dom's still got the shaft on this one. Blasters could do serious damage (unresistable damage). In city of break free's Dom's had toggle drops (if you actually hit). No longer, the % is very low (messed with it myself) and not reliable. If I can get 2 shotted at range, what the point of the small % for melee powers? What happened to risk vs. Reward? The risk is VERY high, the reward is VERY low.

Updated my guide a bit for ice/fire

Ice / Fire Domination Guide

corrected typos and updated optimal slotting for blazing bolt

Hello again everyone. Time for version 2 of my slightly well thought out ice fire build. Keep in mind that this is all in the perspective of someone with non stop scrapper lock, so if you fear debt at all, don't read below.

Why Ice Control? Ice doesn't do a ton of damage, nor does it have a lot of hard control like mind. It is however a jack of all trades control set and in my opinion has one the best overall value for powers (very few powers I deem as easily skippable). The best cross comparison power set in my mind would be plant as it has many different kinds of soft controls.

Why firey assualt with Ice control? Concept? Who knows. The additional damage that fire gives you (primarily from fiery embrace) combined with the fast recharge times of the powers more than makes up for the lack of damage in the primary.

Heres my rundown of the powers and OPTIMAL slotting for each (this will not match my build exactly)

chillbain: The first ice power. Does ok damage, and does immobilization. I no longer have it, if I needed another single target attack in my attack chain I would use it. Some folks talk about the need for use on bosses, but in my opinion two applications of BOI work just as well. This power does have great uses in PVP against some melee types and also has an ok slow component Slots: 1 Acc, 2-3 Dmg, 1-2 immob

Block of Ice (BOI): Single target hold, moderate damage, accuracy bonus. Take this power as soon as possible. Thing of this like your armor while soloing and in small groups. By the time you hit lvl 30 and have hasten you should be able to lock down at least 5 minions and or lts.

Frostbite: Terrible, just terrible. If you are new to dominators this would seem tempting as it is aoe damage, but the damage is negligible. It also has an accuracy penalty. Never open a fight with an aoe immob.. This power is extremely skippable. If you need an immobolize go with the single target one. (no slotting advice, DON'T TAKE IT!)

Arctic Air: This power should not be skipped, but it is absolute endurance hog. It has a slow component, a confuse component and a semi fear component (mobs want out of the radius of the power). All of these combined make an excellent damage mitigation tool for yourself and anyone else in melee with your. With 3 end modifiers and 3 slotted double green stamina I am still having stamina problems (which could probably be solved with consume). Its not easy to skip until 24 when you get your first respec. For PVE slot it 3 confuse 3 end mods. For PVP I would go 2 confuse 1 slow and 3 end mods.

Shiver: Cone slow. Medium recharge. I so love this power. I don't use it a lot while soloing but when fighting very high level mobs in large groups its fantastic. This power cannot be skipped if you are going to pvp at all. This power is the absolute bane to all scrappers and tanks. Slot this with 2 acc and 2-3 slows

Ice Slick: Yay everyone will love you for this power. When you are looking for teams let folks know you have ice slick and they'll be more likely to pick ya up. Its got a big old radius and knocks folks down. They can still attack you though, just not as much. The best part about this power is being able to hide behind a wall and move the targetted aoe circle around the corner, that way you don't take the alpha. Slot it for 3 recharges.

Flash Freeze: A targetted sleep with minor damage. A great power for soloing if you are willing to invest slots in it. A meh power for grouping, as attacks on slept enemies will wake them up. The minor damage is a pain as all it does is aggro those it doesn't sleep. 3 ACC's 3 SLEEP durations at least for this power, if you are going to take it.

Glacier: Yay you've made it. Ice gets its AOE hold later than most builds. That makes it a little tricky to slot. Being a dominator the hold time is short, and the recharge is slow. You have to activate this power on the ground near the enemies (it is a PBAOE). I wouldnt skip the power though, its a great OH CRAP button. I have it slotted 2 ACC 3 HOLD 1 Recharge.


Jack Frost: Oh boy a pet! Jack does a little bit of everything, and nothing when you need it! He has an ice blast, chilling embrace (a small pbaoe slow), freezing touch (a melee hold with a damage ticker), Ice sword and Greater Ice Sword. Slotting I stick with 1 acc 3 damage. Anything else is typically overkill. Jack is not a tank. Do not expect Jack to tank. Expect him to work like an ice blaster that your 5 year old cousin is playing. He does however really boost your damage by the time you hit 32 (AND BOY DID YOU NEED IT).
Slot him 2 acc and 3 damage. He doesn't hold very often and his hold usually has a very long duration anyway. It is not really worth slotting.

Fire Assault

Flares: Wow what a crummy power. It takes forever to activate and does minor damage. Keep this in your attack chain early on, and remove it when you get fire blast. Do not add additional slots. I'd give it one Acc. Good for building domination early.

Incinerate: Get it love it use it. It may not look like its doing much, but those are 10 slow ticking numbers over your enemies head. It does high damage and goes off very fast and recharges pretty fast. This is your first PVP toggle dropper. 2 acc 3 damage here. You could get away with 1 acc for PVE only.

Fire Breath: If you skip chillbain you have to take this power (or frostbite), meh. Its a narrow cone does 3 ticks for medium damage. If you can get enemies lined up right it can do so some good damage. Adding range will make it longer. I stick with 2 acc 3 damage. It uses a lot of endurance. Its recharge is pretty slow.

Fire Blast: Pretty good medium damage ranged power. I spam it as much as possible at early levels. It has good distance and has ok accuracy. Doesn't use a lot of endurance and recharges pretty fast. Once you get blaze you will many use this as a pulling tool or to hit runners when BOI isn't up. 1 Acc 3 Damage.

Fiery Embrace: This makes your other fire attacks shine (and increases the damage on your ice powers as well). It has about a 30 second timer where it increases your fire damage, as well as a 10 second timer (maybe 5) where it increases your other damage. This + Domination makes for all sorts of fun. Slot this for three recharge.

Combustion: PABOE medium damage. Does ok damage. The animation time is longer than fire breath and does less damage than fire breath (in a slower amount of time too), it is PBAOE (which is useful if you melee a lot). This power is worth skipping. If you do take it 2 acc and 3 damage.

Consume: Minor Damage PBAOE. I miss this power. With hasten up most of the time and constantly running artic air I run out of endurance a lot. Its a pretty good utility power when you are low on blues. 2 acc and 3 recharge.

Blazing Bolt: Extreme Damage Snipe. It looks so cool. Most people hate their Dom Snipes, I wish I had mine back. Its a great opener after ice slick for a nasty LT. It is also very handy in pvp. It already has a good accuracy bonus, so if you get it slot it 2 acc, 2 damage, 2 interrupt decreases.

Blaze: High short ranged fire blast. It sounds sort of simple doesn't it? Well blaze unslotted does as much damage as a fully slotted fire blast. Slotted 3 damage you will do 170 damage at lvl 39 against an even level con. With Domination up and fiery embrace active you will do close to 300 per hit. The recharge seems to be medium, I would like it up more often. This really is a set defining power, it completes your attack chain and makes you a force to be reckoned with. At lvl 39 I am usually battling lvl 41 mobs so accuracy is important. Best slotting is 2 acc, 3 damage, 1 recharge.
Power Pools etc:


Power Pools:

I went the Flight route because Air Superiority is great to use with Incinerate (fast medium damage) at early levels. I will soon be respeccing out of AS, and probably just take hover. Flight is ok but slow, 1 flight speed is good at high levels, at lower levels you will need 1 end reducer. The end consumption seems to scale as you increase your level.

I also have gone the Stamina route. Its hard to use Artic Air without it. It becomes pretty situational if you don't have stamina, its best to think of Artic Air as your armor.

I tried leadership, its worthless skip it if possible.

I also have hasten 3 slotted to recharge my holds and attacks as quickly as possible. I would not play a dominator (save mind as it has many single target mezzes) without hasten.

The key thing to remember about your dominator is to mitigate damage with BOI, Artic Air, and Ice slick, and attack as much as possible with your aoe and single target attacks.
I typically set incinerate or air superiority on auto so what ever Im close to I attack.
You will notice you play very differently solo than you do in a group. In a group you role is to get the soft controls out there, then once thats done, get on the outskirts of the control and build some domination. Your control will act as a great damage mitigation to the team. Be careful not to take too much aggro. Solo post lvl 26 you are a monster, use your single target attacks along with BOI and Artic Air as much as possible. Once you have Jack you are nearly unstoppable, you will be building domination faster than you ever beleived solo.
Finally at the highest level (post blaze) you are mostly unstoppable. I solo on relentless and its honestly mostly boring. The one thing to point out with this build is you will not build up domination as quickly as other builds. This is due to the amount of AOE controls (ice slick, AA, Shiver), and the 3 AOE fire attacks. I generally save my domination for the end of a mission rather than trying to build up 2-3 times as I would with mind/energy or grav/psi.

Most important of all, have fun.

I'll tell you all what. Even with corrupters on my team in pvp (sheilds heals etc) I consistently get two shotted by all manner of heros (blasters, defenders, tanks, scrappers, peace bringers etc etc). It is definitely not fun. I don't plan on PVP'ing with my dominator.

quick point, impale is not -jump for dominators.

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I just did my own test with Zapp. Here's what I came up with.

Target: Bane Spider Commando
Buffs:5 IoPs for damage only

Zap: Description:Extreme
Enhancement:+30%
Dealt:100
w/o enhancemet:apx 77

Focus: Description:High
Enhancement:+72.9%
Dealt:140
w/o enhancement:apx 81

Thus Zapp is underpowered unless the Banes have energy resist. On top of all that, the activation time for the Mu version of Zapp is about 1.5x to 2x as long as the blaster version. This needs to be fixed since all the info given about the power in game is incorrect and misleading.

Of course, since I only use it on things that can see through stealth and for pulling, I got it for the range. *shrug*

Edit: I'm going to bug it in game in the morning.

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Yeah thats what stalkers need more one shot powers...

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Ok first off skimming through I didn't notice anyone mentioning the IOP effects on doms. Mez protection Items of Power?

I have 1 40 Ice/Ice dom, and in PvE I feel I didn't need a buff. Drop my ice slick, throw out a few single target holds, drop a glacier... I can barely solo on villianous, but in a team I more than carry my own weight. I can't deal damage worth a spit, but I don't see that as my job.

I don't see the recharge rate effecting me much at all in PvE. the recharge was never my limiting factor. I don't have the endurance to fill the bar in less than 5 minutes. Not a big deal.

In PvP I'm totally useless. My friends all play it, I try and join them... Utterly useless. The hit buff in PvP supposes I'll live long enough to land 11-13 hits in PvP. Doesn't happen all that often. I'm far to soft a target. Tried playing in RV, wasn't even humorous. Exercise in masachacism.

The toggle drop issue doesn't come up much.. Generally if I'm meleeing something with toggles I'm dead in 6 or 7 seconds... Don't live to notice if I've dropped toggles.

Truth is that the tankers and scrappers I fight in Sirens Mez me all the time, I cannot mez them.

On the off chance I do catch the stray enemy squishie in a hold, I usually run of endurance before they run out of hit points. Need to pop blues to kill a held "victim"

So I will repeat what I've seen 20 pages of here... Its a step in the right direction, but not nearly a big enough step.

Bonus damage in PvP?
Mez Resistance in PvP?

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wow you really can barely solo on villanous at 40 with ice/ice? Whats your build look like? If you want PM me and I'll take a look, Im intruiged.

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Just a thought on the damage buff. Castle has said in other posts when they make changes they usually make small ones (like the taunt change in pvp) see how they work then move them up or down accordingly. That leads me to beleive that the damage buff started as a very small change and the devs are seeing how it affects dominator play style. If they find that its not enough (which I personally don't think it but thats just my opinion) the other powers might get a damage increase as well (if not more of an increase to melee). I guess we will see how it shakes out. More or less I think devs don't want to over do it and raise expectations too high only to bring them crashing down. my two cents.

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Well, if it's this is the case, and they plan to start stacking up little buff on little buff on little buff until we're at an acceptable level, it'd be nice if they told us.

Edit: Also, if our Melee Modifier was raised to .8 and our Ranged Modifier to .75, we probably still wouldn't be able to do as much damage as Corruptors or Tankers in general. These two classes generally have more Melee/Ranged attacks to draw on, many with higher damage scales than we can claim with ours.

I don't think any of us are going to be popping out Nova-level damage, or chaining a Total Focus into an Energy Transfer. Plus, the actual dedicated damage dealer among those two has Scourge to boost his damage with.

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I've personally given up on hoping we will get any dev feedback in the boards.

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The unrechargeable 4/15 pet is very debateable on coolness. Being a Grav, the last thing I really need is a 27% of the time pet.

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Being mind/psi, all my pets are 27% of the time pets.

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true, but you can have a mob turn on itself, having several "pets" at a time.

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Ya. Those would be the pets you don't get any xp benefit from and who are uncontrollable. Wow. You can have my share.

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xp benefit is not 100% accurate in the post above, you technically get more pets for a shorter period of time, and although there is an xp decrease for confused attacked mobs your xp/sec (or minute) increases as you are incurring less potential debt and increasing the rate of which mobs are defeated.

On the other point, the other dom/controller pets are not really controllable either save that they follow us around.

Just a thought on the damage buff. Castle has said in other posts when they make changes they usually make small ones (like the taunt change in pvp) see how they work then move them up or down accordingly. That leads me to beleive that the damage buff started as a very small change and the devs are seeing how it affects dominator play style. If they find that its not enough (which I personally don't think it but thats just my opinion) the other powers might get a damage increase as well (if not more of an increase to melee). I guess we will see how it shakes out. More or less I think devs don't want to over do it and raise expectations too high only to bring them crashing down. my two cents.

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Um, BoI is your Single-target hold, and if you stack it enough times on someone, it will drop all of their toggles because it's a hold. BoI never had a detoggle ability attached to it aside from the hold...that was Greater Ice Sword, which IS a damage power, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Way to know your own powers, lol.

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Feh, was late and I was tired. I get a free pass. So there.

Anyways, fact remains that Siren's basically leaves me with BoI and IS. That's pretty much it. Yeah, I got my "ranged" attacks - which do about as much damage against tanks and scrappers as throwing a snowball at them. That's 3 slotted dmg, 2 slotted acc or 3 slotted acc. I'm still working on retesting ArcticAir to see what's going on there.
Something to bear in mind is that I come from an Archery/Fire perspective (which has been turned into FoTM-fodder. To say nothing of Archery/En.) Meaning I'm used to living and dying by my accuracy; no resistance, no detoggle, not a whole lot of anything currently. That said, BoI hits so infrequently as to be utterly useless. Scrappers, I hit maybe 1 in 20 times. PFF? I've never hit a defender with PFF. Stormies and Rads are the only ones I hit, and that's if the Rads don't debuff me to oblivion first.

Once I launch an attack, I'm dead either way. Doesn't matter what attack it is. My only hope is to stack slows with my ranged and run away. That's how it is now, and if others are any judge, I'm not a bad PvPer (as hard as it is for me to believe.) But the only thing I can kill is a Blaster. And I can only kill that Blaster if I A) land a hold B) they don't have breakfrees. Might get a Defender or two, but same situation.

Now compound this with Ice/Ice being basically an AoE heaven/targeted hell. The mix of powers basically leaves you as a weak 'any situation' build no matter what you do. Your primaries are 2 targeted, 1 summon, and everything else is AoE.
In Icy Assault, you have Ice Bolt, Ice Blast, and Bitter Ice Blast at ranged - BIB not available in Siren's as it's a 30+. Then you have Ice Sword, Ice Sword Circle, and Greater Ice Sword which is also a 30+. Rounding it out are Power Boost, Frost Breath (cone slow with Mod DoT), and your ObToggle Chilling Embrace which is a melee-range slow.

Now then, let's take a look here step by step, in order of what exactly these powers do for you in Siren's on Live.
-Chilblain is Chilblain. It's an Immob that does about 9-14dmg for four ticks, and has -FLY. If you catch a flier up high, it's great. If you hit. Destroyed by BFs of course.
-Block of Ice is your one targeted hold. This is the only targeted hold in all of Ice/Ice. It does between 50-80dmg 3-slotted with a long recharge. Have to slot a RecRed or they're out before it's back up. BFs, again, destroy this.
-Frostbite is just suicide. An AoE immob that does 8-12dmg for four ticks. And rarely catches groups of heroes, but always catches the attention of every Longbow for miles.
-ArcitcAir I need to test more; it's a very good power to have, but I screwed up my own build there.
-Shiver I didn't bother taking; it's a cone slow. That's it. It's got a LONG recharge. It's a cut and run that won't cut.
-Ice Slick is only marginally useful. Keeps NPCs off you except the wardens. Maybe keeps some tanks and blasters off you, but not most.
-Flash Freeze is an AoE Immob/Sleep. Does 5-20dmg (though almost always on the low end), eats slots, and rarely hits players. But it's sure great for pissing off the NPC mobs and getting enough aggro to basically get one-shotted.
-Glacier I took past 30; highly unlikely it'll do any good either. It's got an ungodly long recharge, too late to slot much, and is an AoE hold - which I've noticed are very good at missing players. It's done no good in Warburg.
(Jack Frost is 32+)
-Ice Bolt. Let's see; easily resisted slow effect. Low double digit damage - usually below 40. If slow isn't resisted it's very minor. Great for telling them where to direct fire, nothing more.
-Ice Sword is good for detoggling scrappers and tanks. As long as you get in, hit, and run like hell. If you don't run, you're dead. "Detogglers must die."
-Ice Sword Circle is another hit and run. Great for slowing, mid to high high double digit damage, but misses frequently. The after-animation delay just garauntees that if there's a FoTM present, you're dead.
-Ice Blast is the only ranged damage dealer; high double digits typically. ("Wow, I think I did like, 95dmg!") Versus 800+HP. That's only what, 7-8 hits with that, not that you'll live that long since you're probably against a Blaster or someone with a mez or stun.
-Power Boost is Power Boost. It's also a beacon that says "PLAYER AGGRO, COME KILL ME NOW!" Just like Domination.
-Frost Breath is a cut and run slow. It hits fairly well, does maybe 10-20dmg usually, and is only really effective slotted up with slows.
-Chilling Embrace is your scrapper survivability that doesn't work. If they resist the slows you put in it, it's pretty much just a drain on your End. Works great against Blasters, since you have to get in anyways. Just pray you don't lose the hold.
(GIS and BIB are 30+.)

So let's say I run into a flyer and do a chain of PB, BoI, Chilblain, Ice Bolt, Ice Blast, CE Up (quick interruptable anim,) and Ice Sword. For sake of argument, we'll say I've got someone stacking Tactics and I hit every shot. Thusly I do about 300dmg for the whole chain, give or take about 25-30dmg. That's with 3-slotting dmg, bear in mind.

I don't like math enough to figure out the regen with single slotted health. Regardless, we'll say 850HP - 300HP = 550HP or a fair amount over half, and I've just spent more than half my endurance. Slows are stacking, but we'll presume I got the drop on the Blaster.

They pop a BF and 2-shot me. They don't have to worry about their recharge being slowed because I'm dead within their chain damage more often than not. Failing that, unless we're the only two in zone, others will jump me for the rep and bounty and I'm toast.

The only time I have survivability even one on one is when I've got a /Therm corruptor (big shout to Cackle, who is a great guy) buffing and healing me constantly and consistently.

I'm sure some folks will argue it's a build issue, but frankly, I can't say I agree entirely. Yes, the current build does have issues; I should have AA and it should be 6-slotted, I'm aware. Either way, I have two pools; Fitness and Flight. I can't realistically take another pool, such as Medicine, without losing powers that are obviously necessary. I need the slots as well. I could dump Flight (which is only carrying an EndRed and a Flight Speed,) and pick up another travel power like, say, Teleport. But all that does is make it easier for me to run.

Either way, I'm off on a tangent about the build now, so let's get back on track here. Ice/Ice basically leaves you with two "control" powers, a lot of easily resisted slow debuffs, one 5% toggle, and exceedingly low damage. The Domination "buff" is not going to help me in the least, as in Siren's I'll use NPC mobs to ramp my Domination quickly as I said before. I7 will only change this slightly; I'll just get domination up even MORE quickly with the "buff." I still can't USE it without turning into a giant bullseye.

So I am really not seeing any benefit at all here from this "buff" for PvP. Yes, I'm going to be experimenting with builds on Test today to see if I can't do something about my chronic Endurance and Stun problems. Detoggling CE on me has pretty much no effect, because I can retoggle immediately and the anim's interruptable. And I'm going to try CJ to see if it improves survivability at all, but frankly, survivability is pretty useless if it means "I'm alive long enough to get 'em down to half health and run before they kill-shot me."

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man Shiver is a GREAT power. I love it in PVP and PVE, I think because it doesnt have the best graphics people hate it. You can kite the crap out of anything with it.

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Many of us like Doms already, right now on live they are pretty viable solo and teamed in PvE dispise the lack of damage we could use. But now with secondary attacks concentrating on domination buildup in PvP, the solution is to up our damage in both PvE and PvP, or add in power buildup as suggested earlier.

It makes no real sense that Controller gets containment and does much more damage through it when they should capitolize on holds and control while buff/debuff and Doms should be more focused on damage if we cannot get the same control power Controllers do.

Also devs should redo Doms' PPP, end of story.

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You aren't going to build domination quickly unless you hit. Good luck against the world hitting force of nature, elude, unstoppable etc or anything with defense.

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Got a PM from castle. You will only generate 8 points of domination if you hit the player target in pvp.

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Wait. We build Domination in PvP by scoring a HIT, not just by attacking?

VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION: does this mean that if we fire off an AoE, we get 8 points per hit, or just eight points if we hit at least one target? In fact, since PBAoEs don't even HAVE selected targets, player OR mob, how does THAT work?

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I am sure we would get the short end of the stick in both respects. It's nice that scrappers and stalkers are so "balanced" is pvp compared to dominators. Idiots.

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COMPLAINING ABOUT THE AT AS A WHOLE IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD

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Like it or not, Doms are the way they are. Don't like it? Shut up and play a different AT. What we are here for, what this Thread is here for, is to pay attention to the changes Issue 7 is implementing. If you want to endlessly debate the pro's and cons of the AT and how you're not doing enough damage or our controls aren't as long as a controller's has absolutely NOTHING to do with finding bugs in the current changes and/or reporting on how they effect gameplay.

Things are how they are, now shut up and go to RV (assuming it doesn't crash for you -_-') and try out building Domination on a pvp team. Go try PvE and maybe push for 41 to start trying PPP's. But for God's sake do NOT turn this thread into the Domination section, leave it as the "Official Thread for Dominator Changes"

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You will only generate 8 points of domination if you hit the player target in pvp. AS DESIGNED, AAAAAAAAAAA. Why does no one care!?

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This reminds me of when no one paid attention when i was posting about the impact of lessening the affect of toggle droppers for doms. This is real, not abstract. What do people think about this before I7 goes live? Our buff shouldn't be nerfed before it even gets live is my opinion.