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I have sent out a message to the community in an alternative (ie second) dimension (life) where there is a small but buoyant community that loves this game but has been divided by a technological divide and an ocean.
There is no downside to this! -
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I say...... cucumber sandwiches anyone?
Beware... I have license to teach you all about cricket now.
/em evillaugh -
Finally I get to team with Golden Girl...
oh... wait...
/winkie -
I've just read the news, and it's brought a big lump to my throat.
This is like a dream come true for me - this is amazing. I know I've militated and ranted and generally been a pain in the buttocks when it comes to the EU and how I've felt we've been treated - but this... wow.
I'm lost for words (almost - make the most of it)
When War Witch said she'd look into it I honestly thought "yeah yeah I've heard that before, throw them a bone and shut 'em up."
I was clearly wrong. I guess I should have known better because I know WW never speaks unless it's worth speaking. So I am going to enjoy this slice of humble pie with pleasure.
To those Devs who made it possible I thankyou from the bottom of my heart and promise to try and be less of a git from now on (promises are made to be broken right? :P)
Seriously... this is a big deal for me, and for many of us on both sides of the pond.
To my American friends I have a very simple message: Come to Defiant, we have cookies!
Thanks again. Wow! -
EERC now have a cool stockpile of goodies awaiting a 50 so let's see what you got!
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I'd suggest something like a sonic/kin corruptor or a /cold controller.
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Quote:I'll disagree with you on that. IMO, being a despot is per se irrational. It rarely ends well even for the despot as several in the Middle East have found out recently.
Disagree all you like but there are several things to bear in mind: The Middle East is by no means resolved and plenty of despots have had far longer in power than any democrat. In almost all recent cases it has taken a far greater power than the people to topple them.
Being a despot is fundamental to human nature. People ARE despots by nature, it's just that we can't rule everyone with an iron fist. All animals are equal but some are more incarnate than others -
Quote:You can really rationalize murder anyway you want. You can make it sound almost reasonable. It doesn't change the fact that your character murdered someone because your character did not believe the legal system capable of handling it.
Why are you loyal to that system?
Because it suits my purpose. -
Quote:You answer that one yourself. If Cole is struggling to keep control of his domain and some bright young thing pops its head up and does exactly what told - Cole may be an evil despot but he's neither stupid or irrational. He'd take that. Remember the old adage, keep your friends close and your enemies closer: Rather than sending some promising ally away any rational leader would test it and use that valuable resource. We do get tested and there's no sense through much of the Loyalist content we're betraying Cole even if we are involving ourselves in the machinations of his subordinates.You're not getting my point. Cole doesn't want your help. Once you get to a certain level of power, you are too dangerous to keep around. He barely has control of the Praetors as the high level hero arcs shows. He doesn't need another level 50 meta-human who may even pull power from the Well on his side. If you believe in Cole's ideals, then you can try to assume his mantle for yourself. But loyalty to him isn't welcome.
That's how I understand both the end of the Loyalist storyline (when you go to Primal Earth) as well as the rest of the story. I don't disagree with your desire, but I do disagree with your contention that the devs haven't sufficiently explained this in the story.
And Calvin Scott is a hero.
There are alternate endings but there's a whole story where we have the potential to assume for the vast majority of a sub-set of arcs that we're happily serving our Emperor, and then bam "Piddle off to a land I intend to destroy."
As for Calvin, I'm gonna agree to disagree with you on that one for the sake of this thread at least -
Quote:That is only an ending for those wishing to remain loyal to Cole. I wholeheartedly agree that if you decide Cole is a monster, then the other alternate outcomes are equally valid, no arguments there. My beef is simply with the one outcome.I would find that disappointing. I liked the confrontation with Cole on my Loyalist. It worked well as a closing for a person who, in her quest to keep the people of Praetoria safe, had lost faith in Cole. She's still devoted to the people of Praetoria, and thinks that they're better off with Cole protecting them, but she doesn't believe that everything Cole has planned is in the best interests of Praetoria.
I don't want to advance Cole's plans of invasion, but nor do I want to blow up a Water treatment plant and leave people without clean water for months on end.
The Loyalist line worked fine for me. The ending with Cole was good. "I killed good people to protect the status quo, and now you're pushing forward with a totally unnecessary invasion? You're going to kill millions more?"
Your ending would be totally unsatisfying.
Quote:
In all honesty, the invasion of Primal Earth is justified on Cole's end. Think about it; Longbow and Arachnos invade. Invade. Arachnos goes to great lengths to blow up one of the Keyes Island Reactors (which would literally wipe all of Praetoria--and more--off the map) and sides with the Resistance. Longbow show up on the shores of Praetoria and invade a lab or two, opening fire and holing up. Now you find out there are powered individuals in Primal Earth, where the main two factions BOTH came in to your world with guns blazing?
Look at it from a Loyalist's perspective: The two central factions of Primal Earth are violent, use deadly weaponry to "subdue" people, and have no regard for anything if their mission is set. You realize that there are super-powered individuals backing them up in Primal Earth with the same ideals and beliefs in their heads. As a Loyalist, Praetoria is your home, and most Loyalists want Praetoria preserved. An invasion is nowhere near out of the question after the events brought about by Primal Earth insurgents.
But we still get the "**** off and go away, you know too much for some reason" from Cole.
Quote:Right, but they aren't in opposition to each other. More on that in a moment.
Those other followers (the Praetors) are his closest confidants. They've been with him since the Hamidon wars or are his blood relatives. He trusts them implicitly. Responsibility Loyalists who amass too much power are a threat to his regime. I don't care how loyal you think you are, but despots do not want to keep around potential rivals.
The thing you keep waving away is that Cole is an evil man. He is a tyrant. He is not the savior of the world. You might want to RP that your character believes that he is, but the character's writers (the devs) have said over and over and over than he is not. His story is a lie. You cannot continue to grow in power and influence but still believe the lie. That's bad RP on your part. You're willingly ignoring the cues the game master is giving you.
Despots do take on those who they believe can be trusted - historically it does happen, especially under times of duress. You're refusing to see my point that in one outcome of the Loyalist arcs it is not unreasonable to assume that my character (who may well be evil in their own right too) will quite gladly nail their colours to Cole's mast, and follow him as his leader. That may involve my character stomping on others or it may be that my character believes that you can't make an omlette without breaking heads, and works for the "greater good" (as they perceive it.) You might not like that I choose an independant path but that doesn't make it bad RP it makes it limited choice. I take on board that Cole is one of the most evil in game followed closely by Calvin Scott and Reichsmann and Lord Recluse but that in no way precludes characters wishing to work for him. This game often encourages you to be the bad guy and now suddenly we're meant to gasp "You Evil Monster" and turn away from him? -
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Really tragic news coming out of Japan. Let's hope thinks are nowhere near as bad as things first appear.
On a lighter note please don't mention cricket today -
Quote:I tried to stay out of this as much as I could, but there's something I have to say to this train of thought:
Just because meta-game limitations will not allow us to do certain actions, it doesn't mean that the game shouldn't let us at least ATTEMPT them, even if we all know they'll never succeed. It's a lot like Wardog's plan to nuke all of Nova Praetoria. From the very moment he suggested it, I knew it wouldn't work, because I knew we couldn't remove a zone from the game. So when the twist came to make sure he couldn't, I was not surprised, but I still appreciated the storyline.
One doesn't need to be allowed to destroy or rule the world, but one should at least be given the illusion of trying to do so, nevertheless.
I agree. We should at least have the option.
One thing that occurred to me is the lack of foresight shown in the story telling. If you're a Loyalist, why would it be so impossible for Cole to send you off to Primal Earth with something like:Quote:"Well, NAME, I've been impressed with how you've supported the cause, thus far. You've served your Emperor and Praetoria well against insidious forces that are trying to tear down everything we've built.
Now I've a critical task for you. I am about to prepare my forces to invade Primal Earth to destroy these interlopers that seek to destroy us. In order to be as effective as possible, I need you to go there, and seek out all that you can. Get me data on all their meta-humans, hero and villain alike. We know that plenty of the cowardly Resistance have taken shelter there, so take their names too.
Don't worry I'll be in touch in due course - and you may even be caused to attack my forces in maintaining your cover, but that's an acceptable consequence of your deep cover within the ranks of the heroes and villains of Primal Earth. Rest assured, once I make my move I will call upon you to fight by my side as we achieve a glorious victory.
Move out!" -
Quote:If that's true, I admit, I thought the point of them was so you could stay in the zone...so if you can't do them after you hit level 20 (the unlimited mission contact) one can either Exemp (thusly helping their fellow praetorians) or just not level up to 20 and keep on going!
in otherwords you could technically remain loyal but would neuter yourself in the process effectively becoming useless -
Quote:Again, it is bull, because those mentioned are working for a common cause. They may not execute their plans in the same way or see eye to eye on every level, but they do have common cause and in the game lore are united in that, hence Hero 1 went through the portal to almost certain death willingly.No bull there. Lady Grey, Hero 1 do not work FOR Statesman, they work WITH Statesman. They are heroes who have their own goals and organizations.
That's fine, but you aren't an Incarnate then. The Well seems to be creating this competition among its Incarnate children. A loyal follower of Cole has accepted the Well's current champion. A person who believes in Cole's ideals, but think they can do a better job, is just the sort of person the Well is looking for.
I mean, this is the central point of the Ramiel arc. The Well berates those who show Trapdoor mercy, thinks Statesman is a wuss and Recluse an idiot. The Well is testing folks, trying to find an even stronger Champion than Tyrant. A champion who had their own power before becoming an Incarnate. Staying loyal to Cole means you are no competition for him and the Well has no desire to invest you with more power.
Also you've missed a central point - I'm getting kicked to the curb for no clear reason when all I've done is serve my leader willingly, and yet, Cole has other followers who he keeps around. The story is poorly constructed regardless of his so called motivation and defies any kind of logic.
You and several others have brought Incarnates into the mix but my point still stands regardless of the incarnate system or not. If Cole was so secure in his state he didn't need anyone, then just maybe you could understand that but when he does have troubles on his doorstep and clearly does keep some followers around it makes no sense for him to cut someone with proven loyalty and ability out with the threat of impending doom. "Sod off to this other reality which I'll be destroying forthwith."
The more I get into this, the worse the story-telling seems to be -
Ok we've been batting this idea around for a while and figured we're about ready to run it out to the entire EU community as an in game event, that we hope will be well received and enables all you good people to have a hand in it.
Since GR went live, we've all noticed a lot of new players in the server communities, some of whom now have 50s and are discovering new parts of the game such as Inventions and Incarnates and Ice Cream... oh... well would've been nice.
Here's the thing: If you're a relatively new player it's possible you may not have mastered the finer points of the invention system, or gotten your head around build planners etc and spent a fair bit of time puzzling the Auction House.
So this is the idea that involves the community: We're gonna help you get a great build! Easy as, with a very simple idea, broken down into 3 parts:
- If you are a player with fewer than 12 months of Vet Rewards, you can put your level 50 character forward for some build help. What you need to do is explain why your character needs help, obviously give the main info: AT, Origin, Name, Your Global name, Primary Powers, Secondary Powers, APP/PPP, and then a bit about the character's back story, and their reason for being in this wonderful game we call City of Heroes as either a hero or villain.
- Once we've got a few applicants the EERC team will pick a winner - and then the community will dive in and help make the dream a reality: Players with a lot of experience in build planners such as Mids will be locked in a dungeon until they come up with a suitable build which they will then release into the wilds of the forum for perusal. The winner will then get to pick the build s/he likes the best from all the submissions.
- The community then throws in Invention IOs to make the build possible, either by recipes or crafted IOs, which the player then slots accordingly and at the end provides some cool screenies of their character and his/her build.
See? I said it was simple. So put your thinking caps on and let us know why this will help you. Make your submission as funny/serious/quirky as you like. I can tell you we're all excited to see the results! -
Some great comments here.
The lack of our own will is very disturbing in the whole Praetorian story as a whole (and I fear in the Incarnate arcs too... that's becoming increasingly apparent.)
One of the comments I noticed from a couple of people was "Don't become an Incarnate and you serve Cole." That's utter bull. If you follow that, then Lady Grey, Hero 1 and many others wouldn't work with Statesman but we know they are Incarnates.
I am coming from the perspective that it is in my character's enlightened self-interest to serve Cole and his vision. Sure, my toon need not be pleasant and nice but Cole is tougher than me, I know what side my bread is buttered and working with him is a good bet. He is the man in control (mostly - yes I take on board the view that Praetoria is also chaotic too) but I can carve a name for myself amongst Cole's greatest henchmen by serving him faithfully and well, thus accumulating power for myself. If the other Praetors can do that, then I can be so much better - after all I believe in myself.
My central point still stands: I don't need to worship Cole, or to adore him or to think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread: I simply need to recognise that I become stronger working for him, than against him. I prove that and it is demonstrated by level progression and accumulation of personal power. But then, just when I seem to be getting somewhere, and I've done everything he asks of me, he cuts me loose and tells me "right, bugger off and don't darken my doorstep again" and worse, I know that where I'm being sent is going to be invaded by his war machines.
It's a highly unsatisfactory outcome - and leaves me feeling very short changed and very let down. I am forced down a path that then cuts me short and leaves me scratching my head and wondering "WTF". -
Quote:In light of Avatea's post relating to i20 beta testing, is the Thursday Theme Team still meeting up this week?
I've no preference either way, but just wanted to check with others. I've posted here, as I can't recall everyone who was in the team last week (I should have been paying more attention). I'll also /tell those I can remember in game.
(Triple Point)
As far as I know, it's all good. Looking forward to it -
Quote:Well, yes. What the game sets up is that you're loyal to government that Cole runs only because Cole is the only person who can keep the people of Praetoria alive. He is the only defense against Hamidon.
However, no matter how loyal you are, you have no interest in seeing Cole invade Primal Earth and kill millions.
They don't have a story line currently for people who want to see Cole invade Primal Earth.
If Cole is the only person who can keep the people of Praetoria alive then it's in my interest as a Praetorian to make sure he succeeds. Assuming that as a Praetorian I have a family, loved ones, friends, colleagues, unless I'm totally dysfunctional, I want them to live and thrive, no matter my own personal morals.
It's also entirely possible that I don't wear the story that the interlopers from Primal Earth actually have the ordinary Praetorian's welfare at heart. Primal Earth is a MESS! Statesman coudln't organize a piss up in a brewery - as the leader of Freedom Phalanx and the figurehead of Paragon's heroes, he fails miserably: In Seven years he's failed to quell any threat to Paragon, and the city increasingly comes under threat from external forces: Rikti, Council, Circle of Thorns, and the list goes on. From the Praetorian Loyalist perspective, Paragon City is a dive that is as chaotic as the Rogue Isles with its own military militia that forces compliance by the wider citizenry. It isn't difficult to pick up Cole's point that they are not to be trusted and will invade Praetoria to strip it of its assets. -
Here's one that really bothers me and over time as I've explored the stories in Praetoria, this has become an even bigger bugbear.
I have a couple of characters who believe in Emperor Cole's vision and objectives. Their PoV: They started in Praetoria, the Resistance seem to be completely anarchic and willing to tear society down with no alternative game plan and the last thriving City in Praetorian Earth is under untold threats - the Hamidon, Primal Earth, Rikti, Arachnos, Malta, etc etc et al.
They follow his path and the ideals set out by Cole and then come level 20 they are discarded with a so long and thanks for all the fish kind of "Well you've proven yourself to be an highly able ally and have done some great work for us, now bugger off and go do your own thing."
It could be that I've missed something but having run the arcs a few times I've not seen any evidence of that. Whatever alignment you choose, you go back to Praetoria as an Incarnate and stick it to Cole's forces. There's no comeback for the Resistance - it's as though we, as players are forced to be their ally regardless of our character's original role. We may have been dedicated Loyalists but we go back with Apex and Tin Mage and kick a couple of Cole's team into oblivion.
This leaves me with a very strong feeling that the Praetorian arcs cater almost exclusively to the Restisance side once out of Praetoria. If you are a Loyalist you get to go to the Rogue Isles and do your own thing - which gives 2 problems - firstly that the Isles are denuded of population these days (but I don't really want to get side-tracked down that avenue) and that it's almost a Crowley-esque "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law" - except that you follow that route and you suddenly find yourself as a "Destined One" which jars horribly.
Almost the only way I can justify this in my own mind is if I have a character who is a totally self-serving sociopath, and will do whatever s/he needs at a given moment to meet their own needs, regardless of the wider world, and none of my characters are like that.
Why would a character who believes in Cole simply become subsumed into their new environment and then a few levels later go back and start attacking his forces? To me, it makes no sense - and it almost breaks the story for me. It forces some of my toons into a path they absolutely don't want to go.
Have I missed something critical? If so what? If it is critical then it should be much more in your face than it is I'd suggest.