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Posts
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Still keep mixing up terms. Protection is not what I want. Some reasonable way to create resist is, hence why I attempted to slot this IO but was sorely disappointed.
Support with protection is just stupid. As is melee with guaranteed unbreakable protection. -
Quote:You can't solo a GM or AV. You won't die obviously unless you get one shot but there is no damage backup to actually kill things significantly faster. Sure you can AoE a lot more often but it's still a Defender AoE. Controllers could legitimately get ridiculous but then again they already have that capacity. Empathy for controllers would be ridiculous. Defenders (and to a lesser extent Corruptors) just don't have the damage to do much with all those self buffs.Not really. If my Empath could target himself, with just how he is slotted and IOed right now (meaning that I could improve on this if I could self buff), I would have;
46% defense S/L
50% defense E/N
35% defense F/C/Psi,
1365% endurance recovery (22.8 endurance per second)
1600% regeneration (6.72% health per second)
+80% Damage (while solo from Fort + Vigilence +Assault)
220% Global Recharge (making AB perma and RAs have a 30sec downtime, Hasten perma)
+38% ToHit (Fort plus Tactics)
And lets not forget Mag 13 protection to Stun, Hold, Sleep, Immob, Fear, Confuse due to Perma Clear Mind.
I would be like the combination of a Shield Tanker who regens faster than a Regen Scrapper but with fewer hitpoints and able to provide nearly the same benefits to my entire team.
Don't get me wrong, Empathy sucks for Soloing and I think that it needs a little help in that department, but being able to put Fortitude or Adrenaline boost on myself would be too powerful.
My proposed changes to empathy would make it solo better while still retaining its current team strength ;
Reduce both RA auras to 240-300 sec recharge, while cutting their effect by 40%-50%. Then add some status protection to one or the other RA. You could have protection to Hold, Immob, Confuse in Recovery Aura and protection to Stun, Fear and Sleep in Regen Aura.
This change alone would allow a heavily slotted Empathy to have perma RAs (at a lower strength) while giving them the status protection that would make all the difference in their solo prowess without "breaking" their Pacifist design (which would be the case with self-usable Fort or AB).
The sets that already can solo AV/GM don't have anything really beneficial to self-buff with, they are all debuff focused. Providing some help to buff based characters wouldn't create absurd balance issues outside of empath controllers. -
Quote:I already have Acrobatics and Combat Jumping. They provide an immense amount of extra survivability. Yet Stuns and Sleeps still exist and I can't do anything about them. I even slot the Steadfast -KB and +Def IOs. Everything to provide more durability. Currently working towards a build with about 36% S/L defense (which I'd expect will be nerfed at some point, but for now it is relatively cheap). Going higher will roughly triple the cost of the build and I do not wish to do that.The Hold and KB protection in Acrobatics is there if you want it, but you do not have to take it.
Similarly,the mez and ranged attacks are in an APP if a melee character wants to take them, but they do not have to.
Nothing is forced on anyone.
Point of the matter is, the devs presented support ATs with a problem. Then they gave them a few tools they can use to solve that problem. Instead of USING those tools to solve the problem, some people decided that it was more logical to bitterly complain that the problem exists in the first place.
If you choose not to use any of the means you have been offered to protect yourself from mez, it is not a flaw in the game. The devs are NOT required to fix your problem for you, especially when they have given you the means to fix it yourself.
Taking those powers does nothing to solve the core problem of too long of a duration for NPC mez. If you don't die within about 5 seconds of a mez, it doesn't matter how long it is, you will probably be fine. Having durations easily 5x that or more doesn't provide difficulty, it provides "lol you thought you could press buttons now?!" -
Quote:Quite stupid. Even if you could self target, all those support ATs would still solo slower and less efficiently compared to melee. Even with Empathy and Adrenaline Boost.(Cut a bunch of dumb examples and non-relevant technical issues.)
They don't have the damage to back it up, but they can take a hit or two.
And you also include a whole lot of potential technical issues that have no point. Those concerns have no validity in discussion of whether or not it is a good idea to try. -
Power Pool, (same) Power Pool, and a different Power Pool. Everyone takes Stamina so Health is a given, but Super Jump is now forced and doesn't even provide all around protection or resistance. Melee get those for just picking (any?) APP/PPP assuming they want or need them.
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Quote:Neither, Sonic/Kinetic instead.For top end building, team focused (TFs/SFs) play and non-farming, which would be the stronger choice?
Fire/Kin Corr
Fire/Kin Controller
I'm personally leaning towards the Corr (as my next build project), because I dislike pets and prefer ST damage, but I'm curious what people's opinions are.
@Silas: Check your PMs
Both (excluding knockback) AoEs are cones of course but they still do respectable damage, plus they both have a 15% resist debuff. Essentially, every button you press increases damage. By a lot. Single target is good, but pre-stamina you don't have a chain you can keep active to make use of the debuffs. It is possible to solo with this character, but not that fun to me. Much more fun to see 1,000+ damage hits from scrappers, brutes and such who are at the damage cap and beating on something with -45% resistance. -
I don't understand why you are off on a tangent here Claws...
You constantly state me and similar thinking people want "protection" which is not the case. Resistance is the word you are looking for, which can be accomplished in two ways:
1. Provide IO sets or powers that have that functionality.
2. Reduce the duration of mez
Either accomplishes the same exact end result. Option 1 requires a bit more careful build planning, while option 2 provides an overall reduction in all cases of duration at all levels instead of 45+.
Here's a modified suggestion since you seem to think that -3 would be the end of all melee (even though I specifically stated you could boost to -5 via enhancement which you ignore):
-3 mag protection, boosted to -5 via ~60% resist enhancement on status protect powers
30% resist, booted to 50% resist via ~60% resist enhancement on status protect powers
Reduce overall duration to sensible numbers by rebalancing powers that are particularly egregious (Malta and Knives Stun, Nullifier stun, etc).
Then you have people in melee that can take a stun/hold/whatever and not die, because they are able to wake up out of it faster if mez ever overcomes even the crazy high -5 protection while still keeping duration manageable by non-melee and status actually has a meaning to all characters instead of completely ignored by all melee. -
Quote:Next time you play solo, try this:Most support ATs have multiple means of preventing a mez from ever occurring if it originates from a LT or lower.
When you miss an attack with a recharge of about 10-15 seconds or so as melee, turn off all your defenses that you can for 45 seconds.
On a regular mission you probably won't die. Boosted settings are probably going to ruin your day though.
No matter how much accuracy there still is a chance of a miss. And if going against higher level you get less duration as well as being harder to hit them in the first place but the defense can be countered to an extent.
10-15 seconds represents recast time on my crowd control stuff. I don't know the timings for other sets but I'd assume they are similar. Any time you miss with that attack though means whatever you wanted to mez now has free reign to shoot back and stun/hold/sleep with impunity.
I certainly can have reasonable success at such accuracy but it is a far cry from anything approaching guaranteed. Additionally, if I attempt larger spawn sizes the chance is now more that a miss will occur on anything vital. With 2 mezing lieutenants, I have a ~90% chance with AoE to not get hit with return fire that may include a stun or anything. Add more and that percentage goes down even further. 10% of the time with a chance death with 2 stun/hold/sleep lieutenants. In practice this is a bit lower because mobs have only a 50% base chance to hit modified by level and may choose not to actually use it. With a boss, it's at least 10+ seconds to even consider mezing because no single application will do it.
Move to a team and my awe inspiring AoE sleep is near useless, leaving me with a single target stackable stun, which I use. Any team will cause multiple lieutenants to spawn so I can only lock down one while the other can shoot at whoever they feel like. Granted there's no real risk to dying in a team context, but I'm now on the sidelines for 45 seconds if the RNG picks me after trying to do the defender-y things I signed up for when making a corruptor!
10% exposure vs. 0%. The only thing I want is a way to reduce this mez equals death equation that you vehemently defend as a good thing. Mez as a mechanic is fine. Mez duration needs to be fixed. -
Quote:Mez still exists and it still sucks regardless of there being someone with protection on the team or not. 45 second and longer mezes have no reason to exist on players. If you have protection you never worry about them, even when diving into carnies or malta. End drain sure, that's a real problem, but not mez.So, if 8x spawns aren't a big deal at +4 without a tank, why do support ATs need mez protection again? You kinda shot your own argument in the foot here. If your support ATs can run on a team of 8 at +4 without a tank.....arguing that they still need mez protection is kind of ridiculous.
Quote:Except it's NOT unbeatable. If you've ever fought Carnies on a full team, you have seen situations where a tank, scrapper, or brute will get held. If a spawn shows up with a Master Illusionist and 2 regular Illusionists in it (which happens quite frequently), you have a lot of non-positional psionic mez right there already. Add to that the fact that Master Illusionists will spawn 3 more Illusionists and you have SIX mag 2 holds coming in at you that almost no one will be able to avoid (since I can't think of a whole lot of builds that can achieve large amounts of Psi defense), and if the Dark Servant the MI also spawns happens to tag you with Petrifying Gaze, you will be held through any amount of hold protection you have.
Quote:2 Malta Hercules Titans can hold a tank quite easily. They have a missile that leaves a patch of basically autohit hold. If a tank stands in that patch for too long, it will quickly overpower hold protection.
I don't know if I'm just that good, or if the people complaining are either that bad or just unlucky, but I haven't felt like lack of mez protection was really that big of a disadvantage to my support characters. Yes, I DO play more than just melee characters. If I get mezzed, the first thing *I* think is "Damn, I should have been paying closer attention and got him first" instead of "What? I got held? That is SO UNFAIR!"
Quote:You're basically trying to convince me that it's a good idea to reduce the amount of mez protection that melee ATs get. And it's not going to work. They need enough mez protection to do their job, and I already gave a couple examples of situations that will overpower their current level of mez protection. If you reduce it a tank, brute, or scrapper will need to have an Empath babysitting them at all times to be at all useful on a team. People are finally getting that the "pure healer" isn't any more necessary than a pure meatshield, why do you want to change it so it is?
Quote:I don't know if you came from a game where the tank/healer/dps trinity is in full swing (doesn't seem like it since you're advocating relying less on the tank), but your idea of reducing mez protection for melee ATs will make that playstyle necessary here as well. The fact that it ISN'T necessary is one of the best things about this game.
Quote:So, wait...let me make sure I have this straight.
You're suggesting that the devs completely revamp mez protection/resistance for player characters, change the duration of every single mez in the game, and reduce the number of enemies that have mez powers....just to solve a problem you have with a single IO?
Or are you asking so your defender can solo at the same difficulty as your scrapper with the same ease?
Quote:You may not be aware of this....but the ATs are not designed to be equally proficient at everything in the game. They never were, nor should they be. Every AT has something it does better than another AT, and that other AT has something it does better as well.
If you really want everything to be equal, I can go along with that. I want my tank to be able to buff his teammates to godlike status. I want my scrapper to be able to completely neuter 8 man spawns. Give me those things and you can have your equal mez protection.
Here's a challenge for you: Name one thing a well built melee AT (of any powerset combination) can do that not a single equally well built support AT (of any powerset combination) can do. This assumes equal skill, and equal budgets for the builds. Just one thing that a tank, scrapper, brute or stalker can do that a controller, defender, corruptor, or mastermind can't.
I don't really care about equal. I like the support classes like Corruptors. Other people like melee because they just solo at x8 and make scads of influence and get huge numbers of drops. The only thing I care about is running teams really. I'd like to actually make use of my abilities without getting punished ridiculously so because I don't have the uber sets. To that end I choose to pick up powers and IOs that have defenses in them to assist, but it still isn't enough, and in some cases doesn't actually provide any minuscule benefit despite the naming of the IO.
Quote:The only way a Controller will have full time mez protection is with enough recharge to make Indomitable Will permanent. And let's face it, if you have a build with that much recharge (which pretty much requires purples)....you probably aren't going to be having too many problems with mez.
And besides....Fissure is a better AoE than Fireball anyway -
Play redside style then, or reduce your dependence on a tank. 8x spawns are not a big problem even at +4 with a capable team sans tank.
Giving unbeatable status protection pretty much invalidates a lot of the difficulty for archetypes that have the protection. It also leads to the ridiculous nature of 45 second or longer mezes on ATs without protection, hence why I want this IO fixed.
Fix both these problems by creating sensible amounts of protection, duration, and quantity and a lot of these concerns disappear. -
I think it's going to be a total revamp of the IO system have it make sense.
Rebalance sets and make it so there's an actual incentive to not slot "old" stuff like Kinetic Combat at 50. -
Quote:This is what I meant. This is also the reason why scrapper, brutes and tanks can just solo huge spawns without much effort. Most support sets provide additional mez protection as well, so if more is needed it is practical to get.The TANK who is being hit by every single mez effect an 8 man spawn can throw at him doesn't need mag 10 protection?
With just acrobatics against mobs with holds I mostly ignore them anyway. Even on teams with lackluster aggro control post Fulcrum Shift or first strike.
Giving -10 is way too much. -
They don't need -10 protection. -3 perhaps, up to -5 if you 3 slot resistance enhancements.
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Quote:Those that work for a limited time say they are limited in duration after using. And they last 120 seconds.Every effect IO bonus only works for a limited time after the activation of a click power. If you want full time protection, slot it into a toggle. You not understanding how IOs work isn't a "bait and switch".
10 seconds and not listed at all is quite different from the expected, by the wording, permanent bonus a la the 3% psi resist *ON THE SAME IO*. -
Quote:I read the IO and it says "Reduces mez duration by 20%" (*). In reality I get zero effective reduction when slotting into click powers.26 posts in and I'm still trying to figure out where the "bait and switch" comes in. Other than it being a hotbutton phrase to attract attention.
* - I'd accept either 83.33% duration or 80% duration depending on the way the buff is calculated. -
Quote:It's semi-bugged, but overall just just awful all around. It works, but it only works for 10 seconds after using the power. I was expecting a full time buff a la Steadfast 3% and -KB, but instead got something totally pointless and ineffective.An IO being bugged is still not bait and switch.
Which is a silly concept in this game anyway. Mind you, i feel almost the same way about the Triumphant Insult: Chance to Stun proc since a mag 1 stun doesn't affect anything but Underlings by itself, and for a long time it didn't even do that, but it was never a case of bait and switch.
And it did amuse me to refer to it as the Trumphant Insult: Chance To Do Nothing proc.
I'd say that qualifies. -
Quote:Such a random mess of how this thing works. Nothing in this thread represents current behavior.
4. Aegis Psi/Status Res: (3% psi resist/20% status resistance). functions as a set bonus but if you Exemplar/Flashback too far then the IO is offline for the duration.
Special notation: the exact functional nature of this IO's percentages has been called into question. Either the IO recipe description in game is wrong or else this IO isn't functioning as intended and needs to be rechecked by the devs. Recommend not installing it into a passive/always on power at this time until the Devs/Rednames verify the functional nature of this IO
Current behavior is this (as of I18/GR):
Click powers: *DO NOT SLOT WITH THIS IO* The 3% psi resist applies constantly. The +20% status resistance only applies for 10 seconds after you use the power. It does not stack, if you recast the power it turns of existing buffs and then reapplies it. Combat monitor reports 83.33% duration as expected based on the 1/(1+0.2) formula but for only the 10 seconds after using the power, Increase Density in my case.
Toggle/Auto powers: Presumably works correctly.
It now appears to give one bonus instead of the previous 5x4% or 5x5% stacking bonus listed previously. Presumably this was a way to implement the power in auto/toggle powers as the rule-of-five would take care of any stacks above 5.
However, the new implementation is pretty much worthless for non-toggle/auto users. Both Steadfast procs work correctly in Increase Density and do not require casting of the power to gain the benefit. -
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Quote:In a click power the status resistance buff is only applied for 10 seconds after the power is used.Quote:It DOES provide a shortening of the duration of effects. When you have it slotted, any status effect that hits you will be shortened by 7.5%.
10% of 12 seconds is 1.2 seconds, so 7.5% is less than that. It IS shortening the duration, but you probably aren't noticing it.
It does not claim to do anything that it doesn't do, thus there is no bait and switch involved at all. -
Quote:It should provide resistance (i.e. shortening the duration of mez effects). This is what the use of the IO is intended as it is named "Mez resist" shockingly enough.The power does what it says it does, nothing more. It says it offers psionic and status resistance, and that's all it offers. The proc, nor the recipe, make any claim to offer protection.
In a click power the status resistance buff is only applied for 10 seconds after the power is used. The 3% psionic resistance is applied at all times.
The IO is useless in a click power for the primary purpose, yet the secondary use is still functional.
Additionally, the potential powers to slot this IO into are not suitable for the likely users who would desire this capability. 4 out of the 12 sets for C/C/D/MM have powers to slot this IO in without the need for Tough or a APP/PPP shield in order to make it work correctly.
It is a terribly designed piece of junk as it is now.
Functionally, it is as if you had a 4 slot Kinetic Combat, but you only gained the 3.75% Smash/Lethal defense for 10 seconds after using that power it is slotted in. -
Aegis: Psionic/Mez Resist is the best sounding IO in theory, yet worst possible in practice.
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Quote:Status resist is only good because there are no other options. Melee ignore it completely, but since the developers seem to think that adding duration makes it harder it just screws over not melee, especially at the high levels.when i slot this i only use it for the psi resist
status effect resistance is almost worthless anyway because the mez will still hit you but this might make the duration slightly shorter, it offers no mez protection
If there was something else I could grab other then Acrobatics, I'd get that. I already have the really pathetic -2 Acrobatics, but that gets overwhelmed constantly as well.
At least if the status resistance worked that would provide something to get away from the ridiculous mez durations. But no. It doesn't work. -
What a worthless IO.
Classes that benefit from this IO do not generally have any resist powers to slot it in outside of APP/PPP. Classes that have resistance powers have no need to reduce duration.
Adding on to this, click based resist powers that accept the Aegis IO do not work effectively at all. You keep the 3% psionic resist, but the only time you gain 20% status resist is for 10 seconds following the casting of the power.
Better hope you have a toggle!
Awful.
As a kinetic, I get stunned, held, slept, etc a ridiculous amount of time and the one IO that purports to assist with this provides no viable assistance in that regard.
What a terrible decision.
A quick browsing through Mid's shows in the grab bag of Controller/Defender/Corruptor/Mastermind sets, there are 4:
Arctic Fog (Cold Domination)
Sonic Dispersion (Sonic Resonance)
Steamy Mist (Storm Summoning)
Shadow Fall (Dark Miasma)
Four sets with viable spots out of 12 total Con/D/Cor/MM sets slot this IO outside pools or PPP/APP. Who in the world is this IO for? There were no worthwhile mentions in Blaster or Dominator sets. All ATs that have some interest in not getting mezzed, except perhaps perma-Dom Dominators. -
Quote:Such a ridiculously contrived set of circumstances. In practice it's whoever responds first, especially red side. Blue side has other problems and stalkers don't fit all that nicely into blue teams. And for Positron, I'd go with the stalker to be honest if forced to actually choose. Killing Mortifcators early on is vital to prevent the Embalmed Abominations from coming back.It becomes either or when grabbing people for TF's and Trials.
You're forming a team for Posi 1 and 2
You have 7 people already,and the spread of abilities covers all the essentials, you broadcast room for 1 more, a scrapper and a stalker both express an interest. Which do you take?
Can you honestly say you would take the Stalker? -
Quote:This is really dumb.Which also translates onto teams. Since the Stalker has less health and does less damage than a Scrapper there is no reason to go looking for a Stalker, and less reason to grab one for your team since you can just grab a Scrapper for more damage and a better Off Tank.
The truth is that during leveling any AT is preferable to nothing which is often the case. It's never an either/or situation, you can have the scrapper (assuming they aren't soloing like always) and the stalker (assuming they aren't soloing missions like always).
External concerns do skew the effectiveness though, as most stalkers are the assassin strike every 8 seconds and don't do anything else new (or bad) players make up a significant majority of the population of the AT.