Samuel_Tow

Did you per chance dream about knocking enemies inside walls, knocking objective-specific enemies off tall places and losing track of them, or scattering enemies prior to an AoE?

Because I don't think any of us are saying you CAN'T use knockback constructively (on most powers), but rather that having an option not to would be appreciated, since accidental knockback can be incredibly disruptive. Because this is the same argument people were having about Speed Boost for years, and in a similar fashion run speed fans were browbeating dissenters with unnecessary snark. Yet see what happened.

It would, and greatly. I'd still want to have to take SOMETHING from Teleportation to get Zone Teleport, though, and I wouldn't want to have Afterburner available with just Hover and Teleport. As such, I'd be in favour of City Traveller also enabling us to unlock the last Tier of a travel pool with JUST the travel power in that pool.

Actually, "zone teleport" is a pretty good representation of what I envisioned Teleport as being, conceptually speaking - you disappear from one place and appear in another. I have a homocidal alien spirit of destruction, actually, who has the ability to move between any two points in space instantly, and I mean ANY two points. This enables him to travel between planets quickly and manage multiple events simultaneously. Plus, let's face it - the short-range teleportation we have now just just... Goofy, if you're going for an actual teleporter.

I probably worded my statement in question poorly. I didn't mean to say that positive feedback - meaningful such - isn't useful. I meant to say that it isn't interesting. Specifically, when you give positive feedback, it's taken, noted and no-one speaks of it again. Bada bing bada boom. When you give negative feedback, however, more often than not it turns into an argument, feelings get hurt, threads reach 20 pages and people tend to remember. Positive feedback is useful to make, but very rarely useful to discuss, because even when people don't agree with what's positive, they've not very likely to step up and correct you. Well, people who aren't me, but that's besides the point. Liking something people dislike rarely elicits a response.

Now turn things around and rag on something people like - you can bet your peg leg they'll be incensed and make it a point to correct you and argue you to a standstill. That's all people end up remembering, and that's what ends up defining how people see others. All the times I said I like specific weapons, costume pieces, story arcs and whatnot, that all drops down the drain because I said it in-between other posts, a flame war didn't start over it, no-one responded, no-one quoted me and it just fizzled. That's not what people remember. That one time in that one thread that I made a big deal about arguing with people that just because I don't like the Incarnate system doesn't mean I have a psychiatric illness, though? Yeah, people remember that, because it went on for 20 ******* pages, if you'll pardon my English.

Positive feedback is always useful to give, but positive feedback doesn't make an impact on pretty much anyone but the work's creators - in this case the developers. It's their work, they care about how we perceive it, they absorb our positive feedback, but that's it. Players don't perceive things this way, because players don't come to the forums to seek feedback. We come here because we have an agenda, we come here because we have something to say. We see positive feedback and think alternately either "Ayup! This!" or "Meh, I don't care." and go about posting whatever it is we came here to post. We see negative feedback of things we like, though, and go "Hold the phone! What you're saying is wrong! This is good and you shouldn't speak about it like this!"

Ask yourself this question - how many people around here have a reputation for being positive and praising the game? Now try and think of how many have a reputation for HATING the game? It's the same situation as "the devs nerfed accuracy." You don't notice accuracy until you miss, but you don't stop to appreciate it the bulk of the times when you hit.

"Time" in City of Heroes progresses with levels, at least for the most part. At level 1, we see the Circle of Thorns as just a magic cult that Baron Zoria founded in the 1950s. By level 40, we know that they're what's left of the ancient Oranbegans. At level 30, everyone thinks that this Nemesis Army we're seeing is led by just a copycat of Nemesis, not the real deal. By level 40, we know that the real Nemesis is back. At level 40, no-one knows much about the Malta Group, to the point where people don't believe they exist. By level 50, law enforcement and government agencies are aware of them and, in Crimson's words, "Now they'll have to worry about more conventional threats."

City of Heroes has a time line that's pretty much set to evolve as you go through the levels, and yet very few new additions really do much to integrate themselves within that timeline. We have nonsense like Vanessa DeVore being the well-known leader of the Carnival as early as level 40, while this isn't actually revealed in-story until Harvey Maylor's first mission at level 45+. Not only does this serve to rob new players of the experience of exploration we went through when we first joined now that all the game's secrets are supposed to be public knowledge, but every time the developers contradict their own stories, they render existing story arcs - good ones, quite often - as tripe that makes no sense. I'm sure Angus McQueen feels really silly these days, constantly sending heroes to stop the second Rikti invasion THAT ALREADY HAPPENED THREE YEARS AGO!!!

Ahem...

Writing stories in continuity is hard, I don't question that. But the solution to this is to try harder, not to just damn continuity and let God sort it out. Because He won't. And we'll be left with a whole bunch of contradictory stories that don't tie together into any logical progression of events.

Here's an interesting parallel: I write stories. Not professionally, not in any realistic fashion, but I write as a past time. For years now I've been trying to get people to comment on them, but because they're all tl;dr, I simply can't, beyond the very simplistic "It's nice." or "I didn't like it." Occasionally, through begging and coercion, I'll get a person to comment in multiple sentences, and what I get most of the time is a short, polite "I liked it, I thought it was nice. You're pretty good at this." comment.

This
Is
Worthless!

Don't get me wrong, I like compliments as much as the next guy. Obviously if I pot 100 hours into writing an 84-page story, I do like it when people enjoy the story. But my ultimate goal is to improve my writing skill, talent and approach, and this doesn't happen with polite praise. I need to know what went right and, more importantly, what went wrong. I WANT people to pick my stories apart and tell me where they fail. I want to know what the problems with them are, so that I can fix them, or alternately decide that's just how I like to do things.

Of course, as with most threads where I ask for feedback or advice, this doesn't mean I won't argue specific points, simply because I believe in discussions. A recent story I made and posted on another community's site generated a comment from a friend of mine that it was slow, plodding and heavy. Fair point - it was. But that was more or less deliberate as that particular story was more focused on observation of emotion than a specific plot flow. He had very good reason to point out that flaw to me, and I do appreciate it. It's just that that particular flaw was deliberate. Whether it worked or not is subject of interpretation, but I liked it.

Years ago, when Zombra still played City of Heroes, he realised something very few people seem to - I enjoy having people tear my work apart and find every flaw in it that they can. When I post a costume, I enjoy having people tell me everything they see wrong with it. When I post a story, I want people to tell me where all the mistakes I made are. When I make a point, I like having my lapses in logic pointed out (in a polite manner). Either this tells me what I need to fix, or it teaches me which of the things I enjoy are perceived as wrong by people. In fact, I really liked the old Rep system we had, since rep comments - both good and bad - were a very good source of feedback of my activity on the forums.

Obviously, the positives and negatives of any feedback are something that needs to be balanced, but I find empty praise to be just as useless and unconstructive as trolling, to put it bluntly.

What, you mean a thread started with the express purpose of antagonising the opposition and where opposing viewpoints get trolled? Yes, I can see how that speaks so ill of the opposition.

To his credit, I respect Bill's conduct in his thread, as he's been nothing but polite, constructive and genuine, even given the nature of the thread. I can't say the same for many other proponents of knockback.

You don't need Repulsion Field for this in the slightest. Force Bubble is more than sufficient. And Force Bubble is not knockback. Repel is a whole other story for a whole other thread, but for the purposes of this one, it's not knockback. You may as well have brought up Hurricane for all it's relevant.

Because there are never exceptions to anything? Because if I hadn't listed off those exceptions you wouldn't have? Because "liability" and "detriment" are the same thing?

Yeah, no. But it's obvious this isn't going anywhere. You keep thinking whatever you want to think, I'll keep knowing that knockback is the only "positive" in-game effect that has actually killed me for using it.

I have to agree with Cat here (nice to see you around, by the way ) - much as I have a problem with Shockwave and the knockback it causes, at least it's controllable and above all CONSISTENT. I fire Shockwave at a spawn, that spawn goes flying in the direction I point. They may not stay together neatly, but they ALL go flying, so they stay together at least somewhat. Shockwave isn't a power I'd look at as being anything like the worst offender. At most it's inconvenient.

Hand Clap and Thunder Clap are the powers that draw most of my ire. These things are broken by their own design.

This reminds me somewhat of the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender. In a world where half the people control an element, a lot of the nations' infrastructure relies on just that ability. Firebenders excel at metallurgy and use sophisticated steam engines, earthbenders build massive stone buildings and construct mass transit systems powered by people pushing large stone cars on stone tracks, waterbenders live on the polar ice caps and build their dwellings out of water and ice and airbenders live on mountaintops only accessible by creatures who can fly. If a world is teeming with super-powered beings, it makes sense for them to get more "ordinary" jobs using their super powers. Like Reed Richards curing cancer or something.

I'm talking about what they represent now. It's quite possible they started out with altruism in mind. It's been about seven years since I last read that history, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy. But as I understand the controversy around them, it's that heroes are getting rich fighting crime, so it's never really certain where their loyalty lies. Would they sacrifice profit for heroism or would they do the other way around?

Either way, with Crey's taint, they're pretty much a shady organisation now, and that's the kind of storyline I'd expect to see. Then again, when their headquarters gets bombed AGAIN... Who knows?

Possibly. She doesn't have to be a wrinkled old granny to show "old age," though. As you mentioned, old-fashioned, even if slightly, would still be telling. After all, if you've lived through several generations, chances are the latest generation's things may not always be your favourites.

Not "the game," but I do find some of the bad parts to indeed be so horrible that the only recourse is to take them apart and make fun of them. Though I love a great many things about City of Heroes, there are a great many that boggle my mind even today. The Well of the Furies/Origin of Powers nonsense is almost breath-taking in its wrongness, the horrible, hideous mischaracterisation of both Crey and Malta as gun-toting gangsters is bewildering, the lack of support for the Shadow Shard - famously taking a full year and a half to fix the invisible Mole Point graphics - is just... Good god! And that's just the major stuff I can think of off the top of my head, without even getting into the more minor details such as the narrative crime that is Roy Cooling, the constant bugs which make things not show up on my map or my team-mates to show as perpetually zoning, the tragic state of PvP and more.

Trust me, there's plenty here that's bad enough to riff. There's plenty more to praise, too. The costume creator is still the best I've seen - and I've seen a few. The conceptual freedom the game offers, despite some setbacks, is still unparalleled, the lack of a singular, overpowering visual thematic is a great boon and our development team - when they actually communicate - are always awesome. I honestly cannot get enough of reading posts from David Nakayama and Tunnel Rat. Even the Ustreams are cool, when they don't take place at 2 AM my time on a work day, and I generally don't go for that stuff. I've had my disagreements with BABs sense of aesthetics, but City of Heroes still has some of the best weapons combat of any game not specifically built after a certain weapon, as well as the best animations and effects for... Practically everything (except Sniper Blast and Hurl).

And all told, am I not still here, staring at a 72 month veteran bade and my PlayNC CoH account displaying a list of perks a mile long? I wouldn't be here if I didn't like the game. I support the development team all the time with what, ultimately, matters most in the end - my subscription and my purchases. But beyond that, if something is bad, then that means I've run into it hundreds of times in the past seven years, so you better believe I have a thing or two to say about it.

Erm... My first response was:

That one, yes. I watched this when I was something like 10, and so many years ago, that I remember rather very little from it

Yeah, that's definitely better, though the shoes you're using are quite low-res. You may want to consider using the Strappy ones, or go for just high-heel boots. Or even just regular Smooth boots.

I kind of expect her to be more old-fashioned, though. Actually, the Steampunk pieces - especially Victorian - might be just what's needed here. Not that the Fortune Teller you rescue looks like one, though

Yes, and eight-Defender teams can tackle pretty much everything. This is like the old argument that the Shield Defence numbers on Test were just fine since a team of 8 Shield Scrappers all covering each other with Grant Cover and Phalanx Fighting was doing wonders. We should examine the set's balance in itself, as well as how it interfaces with and compares against other sets it shares an AT with.

You are wrong.

Per chance I need to explain how you are wrong - in case it weren't obvious from the post you quoted - no other power effect in the game makes using a power WORSE than not using it. Avoid/afraid are accepted exceptions, granted, but there's practically nothing beyond them. You can maybe argue that the knockback protection inherent in many control powers can hamper the functionality of Ice Patch and Earthquake, but that's an isolated case.

The worst something like a hold, a slow or a sleep can do is just not help. It's not going to HURT you directly. Knockback can. In fact, almost every power with knockback to it can, if not used properly, serve as more of a detriment to a team than a help. Most powers don't pose a danger to their wielder or to the team said wielder is on. Knockback powers can, especially AoE knockback powers.

Try again, please, and this time try to avoid arguments like "Yes I can ignore everything you've said! Let me prove it to you!" Your snark is unwelcome, unnecessary and unconstructive. Even despite being one of the biggest proponents of knockback and starter of the whole thread, Memphis Bill has managed to conduct himself intelligently, rationally and productively. I'd suggest following his example, because I'm not interested in participating in your malicious arguments.

You want to put me down, fine. Go right ahead. I just hope the self-satisfaction you derive from this is enough for you, because that's the extent of your achievement here.

It does, but the casual unbuttoned coat and the tie-less, uncuffed shirt don't sit well with me. She's not a pop star wearing suits casually, she's a public official, so I'd expect her to be prim and proper.

I direct you to visit ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.com and look up anything by the Nostalgia Critic, Linkara or the Spoony One. Even if you don't agree with the content these guys provide or appreciate its entertainment value, it may as at least give you a bit of context as to why bringing up the negative aspects of something and riffing on them can often be more entertaining than just singing its praise. It's just a fun thing to do, and it doesn't mean I "hate everything."

And it IS a one-sided argument, because no-one ever remembers the time I've praised the game, or indeed the time Johnny has, because apparently that just doesn't stick with people, much in the same way people don't notice when they're content. They only ever remember when I complain, because that's when it bugs them.

Yes. And there are threads that focus on the community, as well as threads that focus on the game. You'll note I'm curiously absent from community-minded threads, not just because that's not why I come to the forums, but also because there's nothing to be gained by ruining other people's community fun. I'm not interested in "banter" and "tangents" and such, so I stay away from those.

We very much do speak about things we like. All the time, in fact. Go ahead and review my posts in the All Things Art thread, for instance (at least those not in response to Golden Girl... Ugh!) just as a random example. It's just that there is never any need to discuss what we like. We state what we like, everyone's happy, everyone moves on and no-one remembers the thread by the end of the week. But I make a thread complaining about something and that lasts for a month. Everyone remembers that.

People's memory is very, very spotty, and I've learned that very well from experience by now. Good things said get quickly buried and forgotten, but bad things said always come back through people always reminding you of them.

And they came out once every two, three months. If they released five Booster packs on the same day, a lot of people might not only not buy them all, but also realise that they probably shouldn't buy ANY of them at all. This probably won't be a problem with costume pieces being doled out piece-meal, but it WILL be a factor with powerSETS because those can't be broken down.

This, to me, is the winning attitude. Freedom of expression is a gift we here in City of Heroes often take for granted, especially in regards to topics of interest we don't particularly enjoy. However, I dare say that this is the game's primary strength above and beyond anything else. I mean, sure, we have a solid game at the back end of the package, but the freedom to turn your imagination into (virtual) reality is something very few video games - and indeed very few things in general - can brag about.

I'm always reminded of a Star Trek musical instrument which came from a highly advanced alien race. It didn't have any actual input, but the player was instead supposed to just hold the device and think about music. The machine would take what's in their mind and compose it into a completed end product. I forget which episode that's from, or even which series, but this is kind of how I see City of Heroes. All you need to do is bring the imagination. The game will handle most everything else. So even if you can't draw, colour, animate or write, that's OK. You can still play the game and make amazing characters.

And that is priceless.

Congratulations. Another couple of empty posts like this and you'll have OVER 9000!!!

On topic: I'm surprised the OP hasn't mentioned what I see as the elephant in the living room, which is the ability of Free players to team with at least other Free players. Recently, I played a game that required me to have "premium status" to form teams. I ended up buying a few days of premium status so I could play with a friend of mine I got into the game. Now my premium status has expired, we can no longer team together and chances are we'll never be back there again. Not for long, anyway.

I get having to pay for extra items. I get having to pay for customer support. I get having to pay for exclusive content. But, contrary to my reputation here, if I out an out CANNOT team with other people, then why the funnybone am I playing an MMO? Why would you make an MMO where people have to pay to team or never team at all? Why would you want to deny a free player's ability to promote your MMO to his friends by bringing them in to team with them? The ability to team with other free players you bring into the game should be the cornerstone of any F2P MMO, so why are we still preventing Free players from inviting at least each other to a team?

Well, it wouldn't be if this wasn't precisely how the Paragon Market was being advertised. Several developers have listed as the Market's primary feature the ability to buy small items separately - "a la carte" as they have called it - meaning you don't have to shell out big bucks on bundles, but can instead buy little things one at a time. Fishing for whales seems to be pretty much the polar opposite of pretty much everything we've been told about the Market.

And the stuff worth discussing most is the stuff that's a problem, so that we can come up with solutions or workarounds, or possibly explain the problem away and see it as a positive. There are few things more boring than a "discussion" where everyone pats each other on the back, going "That's good." "Ayup, that's good!" "Did I tell you guys that this is good?" Making an evolving game is a never-ending process.

That's as opposed to being the person who constantly shushes the guy and tells him to stop complaining? One-sided much?