RogueKnight

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As is there's a decent majority of posters in the thread who support some sort of change to cage. The cage note on the wish list is probably going to be changed to something along the lines of "Many people feel that permacaging should be looked at. Discussion is availble [link to this thread]." It's currently looking highly unlikely that this will make the top ten, though.

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I don't think you have a majority in this thread that feel a need to change cage though. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is.

I'm still in the boat of no change is needed.

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This could work if cage were turned into a toggle, but AFAIK there isn't a mechanic to allow a click effect to changed after its been applied to target. Now, you can apply a debuff that halves the duration of caging pro-actively and that might be interesting, depending on how it was implemented.

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Well that's what I meant, a debuff like sonic siphon which lasts what 30 seconds on a target?

Example, Team A Sonic cages a blaster, it lasts 15 seconds.

Team B Sonic hits Team A Sonic with Sonic Siphon

Team A Sonic cages blaster again, this time it only lasts 7.5 seconds.

Sonic Siphon wears off of Team A Sonic.

Team A Sonic cages blaster again, it lasts 15 seconds.


Even if the debuff was a toggle on the cager, as long as that debuff is on the cager, the cage duration is cut in half. Now if the caging team decides to take out the debuffer, well the debuff drops and the cager can cage with the full effect.

*Edited for clarity*

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Like I said, the only argument I've seen in favor of "doing something" to cage that holds any objective substance is the one that cages have no viable counter, and hopefully the above comments address that clearly enough.

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That's the crux of the matter, and no, your above comments *don't* address that clearly enough.

Every "counter" you suggest is a generic counter that can be applied to any situation and any AT/powerset/player/etc. Every power in the game has a way to be directly countered in some way. Cage does not. Many believe it should.

Why do you believe it should remain unique and without a way to counter it?

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Just because the counters I listed can be used against all other tactics.. doesn't make them invalid counters.

You said it clearly and accurately yourself, they're generic counters. If you take away generic counters like breaking line of sight and evasion, then things like AS (among other things) also have "no" counters. It's not unique at all, it's just something that takes a little more practice and skill to counter.

Not to mention, there's still the obvious counter that it's not as unique and powerful as claimed. If 8 cager teams could run the field in PvP matches, I'd agree that there's something broken and in need of a fix, but they can't. That fact in and of itself is a check on the "power" of the cage power.

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You still haven't answered my question. Why do you believe that cages should be the only power in the game without a direct counter?

Breaking LOS is a direct counter for AS, the same way it is for taunt. It's reactionary and allows a player with skill to avoid being affected, or to reduce the effects of that power. With cages, once you're caged, you're caged, there is no way to react to minimize the effect. That's what most people are taking exception to and what you've failed to justify so far with your arguments.

Hell, would it even be so bad if a break free could break you out of a cage? It breaks you out of every other status effect in the game (except KB). People would have to start carrying many more of them in matches to avoid perma caging, but then they'd be giving up greens, reds, and ornages, which would seem to balance it all out.

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Having one break free break you out of a cage seems a little too over the top. Like KoC said, it should take like 4 oranges or 4 bfs to get you out if something like this is to be done. Cage is not really a 'status' effect that has a magnitude or something.

Also, if you are going to have some kind of buff give you resistance to cage, like someone said ID giving like 25% resistance to it, are you also going to allow multiple cages on a target?

I'm not really for any change to cage as it is. I don't see the big deal really. If a team wants to bring 6 cagers then so be it.

However if some kind of change to cage is to be done, I would be against some kind of buff adding resistance to it. Don't we have enough buffs in the game already? I mean we spend a good amount of time buffing up at the beginning of matches now.

Why not make it a debuff that would say cut the cage time in half as long as the debuff is on the cager? For example you could use Sonic Siphon or something from a set that rarely gets used in PVP like /Dark or both. Or every set that has cage capability could also have the debuff that cuts the cage time in half.

I would think that would add more counter-punch-counter to PVP instead of it just being Blaster/Emp/Kin.

That way if the team trying to cage someone can take out the person who is trying to debuff the cager, then the cage would be in full effect.

Dunno, I don't really think anything needs to be changed, but if you are going to do it make it so the counter to cage can also be countered by taking out that person. Would just seem to add more flavor to PVP as a whole to me.

I vote #5, leave cage alone.

update

@Demonic
@Demonic Obliteration
@Cinder Viper
@Gramma Mim
@Jef90
@Jimmay Dean1
@Doppleganker
@Necroshade
@Mr. Shocker - Leader
@Mr. Minmax - Leader
@Israel
@Venezuela
@mm3 squints
@Strike Flame - Leader
@Strike Flame2 - Leader
@Hotshy
@Plutonic Flame
@Sonic Story
@jewel of oa
@Sexeh Toons
@Diamondgirl
@jefninety
@Rewire
@nub thit
@nevva toast1
@grampa pip
@Flaming Forester
@Bananaboat
@Soul
@Soul Inerneo

removed:
@RogueKnight
@RogueKnight2

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update

@Demonic
@Demonic Obliteration
@Cinder Viper
@Gramma Mim
@Jef90
@Jimmay Dean1
@Doppleganker
@Necroshade
@RogueKnight
@RogueKnight2
@Mr. Shocker - Leader
@Mr. Minmax - Leader
@Israel
@Venezuela
@mm3 squints
@Strike Flame - Leader
@Strike Flame2 - Leader
@Hotshy
@Plutonic Flame
@Sonic Story
@jewel of oa
@Sexeh Toons
@Diamondgirl
@jefninety
@Rewire
@nub thit
@nevva toast1
@grampa pip
@Flaming Forester
@Bananaboat
@I Eat Babies Yo
@Chaos King


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Removed RogueKnight and RogueKnight2 from being a leader.

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update

@Demonic
@Demonic Obliteration
@Cinder Viper
@Gramma Mim
@Jef90
@Jimmay Dean1
@Doppleganker
@Necroshade
@RogueKnight - Leader
@RogueKnight2 - Leader
@Mr. Shocker - Leader
@Mr. Minmax - Leader
@Israel
@Venezuela
@mm3 squints
@Strike Flame - Leader
@Strike Flame2 - Leader
@Hotshy
@Plutonic Flame
@Sonic Story
@jewel of oa
@Sexeh Toons
@Diamondgirl
@jefninety
@Rewire
@nub thit
@nevva toast1
@grampa pip
@Flaming Forester
@Bananaboat


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kk I am picking up your slack.

Lrn2spellnub

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Picked up Rogue's slack again..
update

@Demonic
@Demonic Obliteration
@Cinder Viper
@Gramma Mim
@Jef90
@Jimmay Dean1
@Doppleganker
@Necroshade
@RogueKnight - Leader
@RogueKnight2 - Leader
@Mr. Shocker - Leader
@Mr. Minmax - Leader
@Israel
@Venezuela
@mm3 squints
@Strike Flame - Leader
@Strike Flame2 - Leader
@Hotshy
@Plutonic Flame
@Sonic Story
@jewel of oa
@Sexeh Toons
@Diamondgirl
@jefninety
@Rewire
@nub thit
@nevva toast1
@grampa pip
@Flaming Forester

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updated

@Demonic
@Demonic Obliteration
@Cinder Viper
@Gramma Mim
@Jef90
@Jimmay Dean1
@Doppleganker
@Necroshade
@RogueKnight - Leader
@RogueKnight2 - Leader
@Mr. Shocker - Leader
@Mr. Minmax - Leader
@Israel
@Venezuela
@mm3 squints
@Strike Flame - Leader
@Strike Flame2 - Leader
@Hotshy
@Plutonic Flame
@Sonic Story
@jewel of oa
@Sexeh Toons
@Diamondgirl
@jefninety
@Rewire
@nub thit
@nevva toast1



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Updated OS Roster:

@Loridai
@Nihilica
@Cholera
@TheCholera
@Demonic
@Demonic Obliteration
@Cinder Viper
@Gramma Mim
@Inertial
@Inertialtoo
@Jef90
@Jimmay Dean1
@Doppleganker
@HugePeanus
@TinyPeanus
@Necroshade
@RogueKnight
@RogueKnight2
@Mr. Shocker
@Mr. Minmax
@Silent Method
@Israel
@Venezuela
@mm3 squints
@Strike Flame
@Strike Flame2
@Master-Unbalanced
@Hotshy
@Mental Disturbence
@Plutonic Flame
@Sonic Story
@Chadwick
@Elatedv2
@kinetica
@jewel of oa
@Sexeh Toons
@Diamondgirl
@jefninety
@Rewire

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Actually this is the updated roster

@Loridai
@Nihilica
@Cholera
@TheCholera
@Demonic
@Demonic Obliteration
@Cinder Viper
@Gramma Mim
@Inertial
@Inertialtoo
@Jef90
@Jimmay Dean1
@Doppleganker
@HugePeanus
@TinyPeanus
@Necroshade
@RogueKnight
@RogueKnight2
@Mr. Shocker
@Mr. Minmax
@Silent Method
@Israel
@Venezuela
@mm3 squints
@Strike Flame
@Strike Flame2
@Master-Unbalanced
@Hotshy
@Mental Disturbence
@Plutonic Flame
@Sonic Story
@Chadwick
@Elatedv2
@kinetica
@jewel of oa
@Sexeh Toons
@Diamondgirl
@jefninety

[/ QUOTE ]

pwnt

Updated OS Roster:

@Loridai
@Nihilica
@Cholera
@TheCholera
@Demonic
@Demonic Obliteration
@Cinder Viper
@Gramma Mim
@Inertial
@Inertialtoo
@Jef90
@Jimmay Dean1
@Doppleganker
@HugePeanus
@TinyPeanus
@Necroshade
@RogueKnight
@RogueKnight2
@Mr. Shocker
@Mr. Minmax
@Silent Method
@Israel
@Venezuela
@mm3 squints
@Strike Flame
@Strike Flame2
@Master-Unbalanced
@Hotshy
@Mental Disturbence
@Plutonic Flame
@Sonic Story
@Chadwick
@Elatedv2
@kinetica
@jewel of oa
@Sexeh Toons
@Diamondgirl

Please add:

@Sexeh Toons
@Diamondgirl

To the OS official roster.

Anyway we can get these stickied or something? Or maybe one thread stickied with everyone's official roster in it?

Well CoX is never going to be balanced 1vs1. That would be almost impossible to do.

But the imbalances between Heroes and Villains is something that can be fixed and should be. Specifically the imbalance between Epic Pools and Patron Pools.

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One of the things that PvPers say a lot is that there's no challenge in PvE. Well that's because you don't look for challenge. Can you solo a TF, including the AV at the end? Can you solo a Giant Monster? Those things can be done. And it's a hell of a lot harder than taking some pimped out build into PvP.

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Not really. I think most PvPers like to PvP because it is a challenge to face a thinking opponent.

AV's, Giant Monsters, etc are 'hard' not because they are 'challenging' but because they have huge amounts of HP or damage or regen. They are still scripted and will perform the same way each time. A human opponent on the other hand will not. Therein lies the challenge and fun and excitement of PvP.

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In my experience, PvPers are tediously predictable.

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In what way?

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One of the things that PvPers say a lot is that there's no challenge in PvE. Well that's because you don't look for challenge. Can you solo a TF, including the AV at the end? Can you solo a Giant Monster? Those things can be done. And it's a hell of a lot harder than taking some pimped out build into PvP.

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Not really. I think most PvPers like to PvP because it is a challenge to face a thinking opponent.

AV's, Giant Monsters, etc are 'hard' not because they are 'challenging' but because they have huge amounts of HP or damage or regen. They are still scripted and will perform the same way each time. A human opponent on the other hand will not. Therein lies the challenge and fun and excitement of PvP.

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You should take your own advice. One of the first things they teach you about in statistics is about sample size. The second thing they teach you is how to take an objective survey and not color it with prejudices. No one is convinced of your arguments because you clearly have an agenda and no matter what kind of pseudo-scientific stuff you come up with, you'll skew the results to suit your ends.

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I listed my Sample size. 100 players out of 600 or so (Don't have the figures in front of me) Thats a pretty good sample in most peoples book. Is my analasys perfect. Not by a long shot. But it sure as heck beats counting who has the most posts on a forum. THATS what I was responding to.


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Yes for that one instance on that 1 server (or maybe you did 2 servers). In any case MY point was that you can take a small sample size like that and make it look like anything you want. MY sample was taken from the forums, which includes people from ALL of the servers. For your 'sample' to be in any way scientific (not saying mine was), you would have to take the same percentage sized sample for ALL servers and you would have to take the same sample at different times of the day, like 1 hour increments. Also your sample didn't include people in the arena or waiting for an arena match. Your sample is way off if you were trying to use it to show how many people PvP in CoX.

Do I believe there are more people PvPing than PvEing? No! But I do think there are a lot more than you probably think. And there would be even more people PvPing if the Devs did a better job in several areas.

-Fix the Arena
-Fix AT imbalances (I know I know easier said than done)
-Fix imbalances between heroes and villains (i.e. Epic pools vs Patron pools)
-Introduce players to PvP in a much better way. The game does a very poor job preparing new players to PvP, but does an excellent job introducing them to PvE.
- More involvement from the Devs in setting up PvP events. There are several PvE events throughout the year, hardly any (if any) for PvP

Not to mention, several huge PvP SGs left the game recently due to the above facts. Obviously, if PvP didn't have so many problems, they would have most likely stayed and increased the amount of players who PvP.

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PvP: PVPers make up 2-6% of the population and PvP changes would require a lot of resources from Cryptic.
I have done some random sampling on Protector and Virtue over the last few days and the results show between 1% and 4% (Average 2.54%) of online players are in the PvP zones at any given time.

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I did some random sampling as well:

At the time of this post:
There are exactly 596 threads in the "Badges" forum.
There are exactly 845 threads in the "PVP" forum.

This means that PVP is approximately 60% more popular than badges. Making badge hunters the minority.

So stop making new badges and fix PVP!

Seriously.

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So, does this mean you're doing the same thing to the Hollows and Striga? Being forced to go there is just as not fun as being forced into any other zone you have no interest in going to. If we now have a real choice about entering Warburg can we please have the same consideration for the Hollows and Striga?

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No you can't.

StarFox,

Excellent guide! I used it to get 3 of the accolades! I am still working on the others.

One small error that I found was that you listed under Talos Island the:

"Authority – Freedom - (3410, 42, 3035) 180 yards SE of Toffet Terrace dot, to the left of the bottom of a short stairwell. Plague faces E. "

This is actually in Dark Astoria, not Talos.

Thanks for all the work you did! Awesome!

Statesman,

Thank you for your post. Thank you also for seeing your brother off right.

I was in Iraq for a year and a half and I will tell you that the last time you saw your family before you leave is what you think most about when you are able to get some sleep. I would picture their faces the last time I saw them and that would help me sleep. So I know your brother will be thinking of you while over there!

-SFC Staley

removed

I like the idea in general but in actual gameplay it is pretty useless as it is now. It is 'too little, too late' and it needs to kick in much sooner.

I have tested this on test and ran 5 missions. Defiance helped me in 1 battle and that was to take out a straggling minion I probably could have defeated without defiance.

Encouraging the squishiest (is that a word?) AT to remain low on health in order for their inherent power to kick in is suicide. I feel it should scale similar to the following...

90% health - Defiance gives +10% boost to damage +5% boost to ACC

80% health - Defiance gives +20% boost to damage +10% boost to ACC

70% health - Defiance gives +30% boost to damage +15% boost to ACC

60% health - Defiance gives +40% boost to damage +20% boost to ACC

50% health - Defiance gives +50% boost to damage +25% boost to ACC

40% heatlh - Defiance gives +60% boost to damage +30% boost to ACC

30% health - Defiance gives +120% boost to damage +50% boost to ACC

20% health - Defiance gives +240% boost to damage +75% boost to ACC

10% health - Defiance gives +400% boost to damage +100% boost to ACC

First off.. what is the main reason the blasters take so much damage (aside from the fact that we have no defenses/mez protection and low hit points)? It is because we draw so much aggro! Especially using AoE's etc..

So what if all of our ranged attacks had a reduce aggro ability in them?

So, then what if we could raise the base damage of blasters to where we could max out our damage using 3 or 4 damage enhancements (or if you had build up, you would only need 2 or 3) and then we could use a new type of enhancement called "Reduce Aggro" that would reduce it even more.

So say you are using FlameThrower and have 3 Damage SO's 1 Range increase and 2 "reduce aggro" enhancements, you hit the mobs, but instead of ALL of them turning on you, only about half do, or only 1/3 do.. thus reducing the amount of damage we take.

Another example would be using snipe (or some other power) on a single target (ie boss), set up the same way as above and when you snipe him, you don't automatically draw aggro from him.. he looks around wondering what just hit him.. so you can snipe him again.. but this time (percentage wise) you do draw aggro from him. With the innate ability of the ranged attacks to have reduced aggro plus the enhancements you could cap out at say 50% reduction in aggro..

I read something similar to this yesterday.. but I can't remember where...


What do you guys think?

Yeah but I still think we need more range also.. and less rooting of powers..