Revolver_Law

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Simply put "Working as Intended" usually isn't synonymous with "working the way the players think"...

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Yet whenever something is working fine, it's wasn't "working as intended" and gets nerfed.

Funny how that works.

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Now I agree that defiance is crap and only slightly useful if you try to exploit it, however, States wants to here about the bug in the OP. We should stick to info on that rather than venting about defiance else we may be waiting many more months before another red name shows up here again.

Edit: Wow. Quite a few posts between mine and the last one I saw. My point is just letting him know that we think it's crap isn't going to do us any good since we've been saying it since pre-I5. He wants data.

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Data has been given since it was on test. Nothing done.

The point remains that Statesman pops in every blue moon and talks a good game about possibly giving the problems this AT has some consideration.

Last time, our secondaries were supposed to be getting looked into and what did we get? A minor HP buff. /Fire still sucks, AR/Dev still sucks. Yet they don't miss an opportunity for nerfage.

I used to be full of hope like you, now I'm just a bitter old Blaster with a busted gun and outdated gadgets.

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http://www.openmindcreations.com/j5/coh/defiance.jpg

Note: level 50 blaster
At 1/3 or so life I had .1 defiance, it wasn't until I was almost dead that the bar actually went up.

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*Working as intended*

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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?

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How about it's no help at all. That by the time you get any meaningful buff you're likely going to flaceplant anyway?

Honestly, this isn't anything that hasn't been brought up before. Please spare us the lip service if no action is going to be taken.

Sounds about right for someone fighting +2s and +3s. I've never been big on putting ACCs in mines, but now with ED I figured it'd be a good idea.

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Another thing, I love when these stalkers tell us "your in a pvp zone, JUST KEEP MOVING!" Hogwash. Moving thru zone has pitfalls, ledges, and other obstacles that ppl get stuck on. Sometimes thats all a stalker needs to pull off an AS. Not to mention ppl get stuck in animations that would give stalkers a window of opportunity. So do give me that "keep moving" crap.

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Yes. Everybody but Stalkers lag. It's true, it's true.



K. Done now. Have fun all.

I've come to the conclusion that it's not the actual one-shotting at all. Sadly, I think it's a plain lack of effort. I play in Siren's everyday, seeing different heroes everyday - 65% of whom can see me just fine, the other 35% get IR goggles very quickly.

I'm honestly done arguing the point that Stalkers can be seen by anybody because it's obvious nobody wants to accept that even though you can go to any PvP zone and see plenty of people chasing Stalkers around.


BTW, I can't wait to see the complaining when villains start to take control of PvP zones and heroes get a taste of what these zones are like without the IR goggles. Most people who play mainly villains are laughing at how heroes (at least on the forums) don't appreciate how powerful that one temp power is right now.

Illu Troller: OMG!!! NO FAIR! He can use the IR goggles+Tactics and see through my Superior Invis! That's not fair!

I guarantee this will happen.

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There should be no attack in the game other than Nukes, that should do more than 75% of a squishies health, period. This game will be a better place.

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Also....a nuke is an AOE attack. It can attack tons of people at once. Why the hell should it be the only attack capable of doing serious damage?

THAT would be unbalanced!

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Blasters dont have stacked stealth, blasters lose all end after a nuke. Whats the down fall to using AS? Maybe that will solve the problem...after a successful AS maybe stalkers should lose all end. Would you like that? I think not.

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A pbaoe extreme damage (on a Blaster scale) attack power needs to drain all end. That's always been fair IMO.

From TrackStar:

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Its silly, the only people who want the one shotting to stay is stalkers and scrappers. PvP is pointless if all you do is get attacked from behind by some sissy assasain strike bull, and i hope states nerfs the hell out of ya'

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My main is a Blaster. Blasters are my favorite AT. I get one shotted constantly. I have zero problems with "one-shotting" as long as it can be prevented.

Assassination Strike can be prevented.

BTW, don't let the sig fool ya, I play every AT except for Brutes and Controllers and am fully capable of avoiding AS with all of them and I don't build for PvP.

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That was because magnitude of holds could trump the inspirations, thus making them useless.

I fail to see how seeing a Stalker before he/she even gets a chance to line you up somehow doesn't prevent you from being AS'd.

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Stack enough Disciplines and the magnitudes of the holds could not trump them.

Stack enough Insights and the stregnth of the stealth cannot trump them.

I was asking how the situations were DIFFERENT.

They're not, so why shouldn't we get a way to RESPOND to a stealth snipe the way we can now RESPOND to a status?

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Situations are different. Any build can get +perception powers to help detect a Stalker. You can't say the same about holds.

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I could swear there were some mez protection powers in the power pools. I could swear there were some mez protections in the shared pools. I guess I eas wrong, since some builds apparently cannot get mez protection.

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Acrobatics. One mez.

Tactics, one of many +perception powers available to avoid Stalkers.

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That was because magnitude of holds could trump the inspirations, thus making them useless.

I fail to see how seeing a Stalker before he/she even gets a chance to line you up somehow doesn't prevent you from being AS'd.

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Stack enough Disciplines and the magnitudes of the holds could not trump them.

Stack enough Insights and the stregnth of the stealth cannot trump them.

I was asking how the situations were DIFFERENT.

They're not, so why shouldn't we get a way to RESPOND to a stealth snipe the way we can now RESPOND to a status?

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Situations are different. Any build can get +perception powers to help detect a Stalker. You can't say the same about holds.

My favorite AT is the Blaster, fully capable of being one-shotted by a lot of things, yet don't complain about it if there is something I can do to prevent it. I can prevent being AS'd on every single one of my Blasters (three total). I can also prevent it on my Rad/Rad Defender, another one of my toons who can be one-shotted.

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Revolver_Law:

There are not that many tools to prevent a Stalker one-shot.

1) There are a tiny handful of auto-hit Aura powers. Five? Six? They are scattered across a number of ATs secondaries. If you weren't lucky enough to pick one of those ATs, you're just SOL on that front.

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There's a post about this in the Stalker forums - there are plenty Aura powers - some of which Blasters have in their secondaries.

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2) PBAOE powers. These not only have the same problem of availability that the auto-hit Aura powers do, but they also have to hit. Realistically, this is only going to happen against */Regen Stalkers. There are plenty of posts over on the Blaster Boards of people specifically testing Lightning Field with three (3) Single-Origin Accuracy Enhancements slotted and it still only hit a Defense Set (which comprise the other secondaries) Stalker 10% of the time. These are simply not a reliable defense, even if a person's AT has access to them. Most simply don't.

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As I said in a previous post, these hit VERY often. I haven't had an instance where I wasn't hit.

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3) It requires not one +Perception power. Not two +Perception powers. It requies three +Perception powers to detect Stealth + Hide. This requires that a hero be lucky enough to have access to Glacial Shield (Ice/* Tankers), Minerals (Stone/* Tankers), Focused Senses (*/Super Reflexes Scrappers), Cloak of Shadows (*/Dark Armor Scrappers), Targetting Drone (*/Devices Blasters), or Shadow Cloak (Warshades); AND Tactics; AND buy IR Goggles. If you do not have access to one of the above powers, you're just SOL; as has been confirmed repeatedly, if you're not a Defender, Tactics and IR Goggles will not be enough to see a Stalker who's using Stealth + Hide at the same time.

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Actually I run Hide and Stealth and can be seen by a Scrapper/Tank with only IR, a Dev Blaster with only Targetting Drone, Trollers/Defenders with Tactics+IR.

So it doesn't take three powers.

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A long time ago, the Developers said they did not want to "require" players to take any specific Power Pool power. These statements were made in the context of Hasten and Stamina, but this is really the same issue: if someone wants to engage in PvP, he or she will need to take Tactics if he or she is a hero. Furthermore, he or she will need to know several others who have also taken Tactics and/or he or she will have to lay down 10k Influence every 30 minutes to keep PvPing.

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We both know that's BS. If that were true I wouldn't have to take TP Foe to make my main somewhat useful in PvP (which I refuse to do). It's a nice thought, but you and I both know it's just lip service.

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That was because magnitude of holds could trump the inspirations, thus making them useless.

I fail to see how seeing a Stalker before he/she even gets a chance to line you up somehow doesn't prevent you from being AS'd.

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I think I'm in almost total agreement with you except that I think players knowing that there is even a small chance to respond is key. A good Stalker against a poor player should be able to 'gank' about 100% of the time. Against an average player? 80-90%. I don't believe that to be the case at this time. Player response should also put the Stalker at risk; those able to remove themselves from combat straight after an AS should either: Not get a kill or be at risk of serious harm.

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Then I'd like the chance to be able to respond to being slept, held, confused, taunted, sniped, ice patched, critted, and debuffed.

Deal?

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That's why we not have Break Frees instead of Disciplines. Because Disciplines were unable to be reactive and let you RESPOND to a status effect.

You can't RESPOND to a one shot.

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Correct, but you can PREVENT it from happening in the first place (for Stalkers).

You can't tell me otherwise because I've played against people of all ATs who've managed to avoid AS one way or another.

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Well, when they faced a similar problem with controllers, they converted the PREVENT inspiration to a RESPOND inspiration.

You can do the math from there.

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That was because magnitude of holds could trump the inspirations, thus making them useless.

I fail to see how seeing a Stalker before he/she even gets a chance to line you up somehow doesn't prevent you from being AS'd.

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_Castle_:

With all due respect, this seems to be a semantic game to avoid dealing with some of the realities of PvP.

As my post regarding Siren's Call demonstrates, with Build-Up and one (1) Enrage, Stalkers can easily one-shot Controllers, Defenders, Peacebringers (Human/Nova), and Warshades (Human/Nova).

Furthermore, Trip Mine is only available to certain secondary powersets (Blasters' */Devices, Masterminds' */Traps, and Corruptors' */Traps, I believe). Not every Blaster, Mastermind, or Corruptor even has access to the power.

Every single Stalker has Assassin's Strike or some variation of it, however.

It's not a "Trick Question" as it is a "Red Herring" to distract away from the issue of the easy Stalker one-shot kill.

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Again - another post about responding to an attack. How about preventing it? There's more than enough tools out there to detect a Stalker.

This point seems to get ignored.

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I think I'm in almost total agreement with you except that I think players knowing that there is even a small chance to respond is key. A good Stalker against a poor player should be able to 'gank' about 100% of the time. Against an average player? 80-90%. I don't believe that to be the case at this time. Player response should also put the Stalker at risk; those able to remove themselves from combat straight after an AS should either: Not get a kill or be at risk of serious harm.

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Then I'd like the chance to be able to respond to being slept, held, confused, taunted, sniped, ice patched, critted, and debuffed.

Deal?

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Well Slows and debuffs aren't directly fatal but otherwise sure thing. A break free is a response to mez effects, other effects need a response too.

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Just like yellow insps are a response to Stalkers being hidden.

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It's not a response. It only does you any good if you hit it BEFORE the Stalker attacks.

A response genreally comes AFTER the stimulus.

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He said a response to the Stalker being hidden, not the Stalker attacking.

The point you're missing is that Stalker Assassination Strikes can be stopped before they even happen through various methods. You don't need to respond to an attack if you can avoid it happening in the first place.

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I think I'm in almost total agreement with you except that I think players knowing that there is even a small chance to respond is key. A good Stalker against a poor player should be able to 'gank' about 100% of the time. Against an average player? 80-90%. I don't believe that to be the case at this time. Player response should also put the Stalker at risk; those able to remove themselves from combat straight after an AS should either: Not get a kill or be at risk of serious harm.

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Then I'd like the chance to be able to respond to being slept, held, confused, taunted, sniped, ice patched, critted, and debuffed.

Deal?

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That's why we not have Break Frees instead of Disciplines. Because Disciplines were unable to be reactive and let you RESPOND to a status effect.

You can't RESPOND to a one shot.

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Correct, but you can PREVENT it from happening in the first place (for Stalkers).

You can't tell me otherwise because I've played against people of all ATs who've managed to avoid AS one way or another.

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Interruptables
It appears that these are also dependent on the characters AT and build. They are also not reactive. I believe that these AoE effects must be activated before the Stalker attacks. They are not a response to a Stalker but a precaution.


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When you're in an open PvP zone, you know Stalkers are running around. If you choose not to turn on a toggle that prevents an AS, it's your fault if it happens to you. That's just common sense.

I've never once had a Kin Controller or Defender yell at me cause I AS'd them - they blamed themselves because they forgot to turn on Repel.

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The problem with interuptable AOEs are that stalkers are defensive sets and alot of the time the AOE dont even land.

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That's not accurate at all.

My Stalker is always interrupted by those powers. Always.

My secondary provides res to the actual knockback of things like Repel and Hurricane, but there's no way I can AS a character that has them if I'm standing right next to them. If I'm careful using Fly or a fly temp power, I may being able to AS someone with Hurricane.

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As said previously, yellows are not a response to a Stalker attack. They are a precaution. Yellow insps at this time are roughly equivalent to the old discipline insp. Remember how popular they were?

I don't think players should be able to avoid AS entirely and in a reliable manner. This would cause Stalkers too many problems.

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What you're not understanding is that options are there to eliminate a Stalker getting the jump on you - it's whether or not you want to make use of them.

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I think I'm in almost total agreement with you except that I think players knowing that there is even a small chance to respond is key. A good Stalker against a poor player should be able to 'gank' about 100% of the time. Against an average player? 80-90%. I don't believe that to be the case at this time. Player response should also put the Stalker at risk; those able to remove themselves from combat straight after an AS should either: Not get a kill or be at risk of serious harm.

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Then I'd like the chance to be able to respond to being slept, held, confused, taunted, sniped, ice patched, critted, and debuffed.

Deal?

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Well Slows and debuffs aren't directly fatal but otherwise sure thing. A break free is a response to mez effects, other effects need a response too.

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Just like yellow insps are a response to Stalkers being hidden.

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I've watched /Dev Blasters in Warburg, stand on a ledge and lay mines in one spot, then drop caltrops there, and use TP Foe to port an enemy right on it. I watched a Blaster instantly kill a Scrapper doing that.

For the record, just hitting AS alone can't one shot anyone. You need to use Build Up first, which your enemies can some time hear a Stalker do and run away from the sound before the Stalker can hit AS.

Also for the record, even though a Blaster can one shot a Stalker, a Stalker can't one shot a Blaster. Even in Warburg where the heroes had -15% Res and the Villains had +15% Damage(because of us villains having no one else our level to team with so we solo missions in Warburg for the extra xp), but even with all those bonuses, and my hitting a tiny red with three green damage SOs in AS, I still couldn't one shot a Blaster... though I left them with a sliver. If they hit respits before my next attack hit, then I'd have to run. But if they panicked and ran or stayed to fight thinking maybe Defiance would kick in, then I just needed one follow up attack to hit and they were gone.

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Admittedly, I haven't got the chance to run around in Warburg with my Stalker yet, but I don't see how a Blaster can't be one-shotted there. From my understanding, Warburg exemps you to lvl38(?), so any Blasters with APP res shields like Temp Inv or Fire Shield don't have access to them.

Now I have come across Blasters who I couldn't one-shot in Siren's, but I won't sit here and say that I don't one-shot seven out of ten Blasters.

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I think I'm in almost total agreement with you except that I think players knowing that there is even a small chance to respond is key. A good Stalker against a poor player should be able to 'gank' about 100% of the time. Against an average player? 80-90%. I don't believe that to be the case at this time. Player response should also put the Stalker at risk; those able to remove themselves from combat straight after an AS should either: Not get a kill or be at risk of serious harm.

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Then I'd like the chance to be able to respond to being slept, held, confused, taunted, sniped, ice patched, critted, and debuffed.

Deal?

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I'm sorry but that's not the Stalker's problem. The options are there for all builds - whether you choose to use them or not is up to you.

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That's just it. You're right it's not the Stalkers problem. The options aren't there for all builds though. What is the advice for players whose viable PvE builds don't contain these powers?

Stay out of PvP? Start a new character?

Doesn't that seem a bit harsh?

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I believe that any build should be able to hold it's own in PvP, that's not the case though. Many of heroes can't PvP to save their lives (including my AR/Dev) because I refuse change them around solely for PvP and I had to accept that. Some builds are naturally going to do better than others.

If you know you're going to PvP you have three options:

1. Build for PvP and do very well.
2. Don't build for PvP and take your chances.
3. Make a build balanced for PvE and PvP.

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Thing is, players DO have a chance to avoid an AS
Perception AbilitiesThese seem to be either build options, IR goggles or yellows. Of these only yellows are close to being a reaction to a Stalker attack, and of course they will only be activated after the Stalker has used their AS.

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I'm sorry but that's not the Stalker's problem. The options are there for all builds - whether you choose to use them or not is up to you.

And you left out Aim, Tactics, Targetting Drone, Focused Accuracy (though that can't be used in Siren's Call), the fact that Tanks and Scrappers get enhanced perception in PvP and I know I'm forgetting a few others.

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Interruptables
It appears that these are also dependent on the characters AT and build. They are also not reactive. I believe that these AoE effects must be activated before the Stalker attacks. They are not a response to a Stalker but a precaution.

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When you're in an open PvP zone, you know Stalkers are running around. If you choose not to turn on a toggle that prevents an AS, it's your fault if it happens to you. That's just common sense.

I've never once had a Kin Controller or Defender yell at me cause I AS'd them - they blamed themselves because they forgot to turn on Repel.

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Although these do allow a player to prevent an AS I would consider that having to avoid these effects is not much fun for a Stalker, or for the player having to take these measures.

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Having to avoid them can be fun. It's a game of cat and mouse. Some builds I can run up and AS on, others I have to be more creative sneaky with.

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Quick question:

Is Caltrops + (Trip Mine * 3) a "One Shot" or is it 4 attacks?

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I'd call it a "One Shot".

Reason being is unless you're lucky enough to have a power that received TP Foe protection in one of the most recent patches, there's not much you can do unless you just happen to be flying at the time.

Also the Blaster doing it is perched in a conspicuous area, safe from everything.

With Assassination Strike, the Stalker has to be in melee range - meaning even though he/she can't be seen by most, they can still be hit by targetted AOE powers like Caltrops, Taunt, Flamethrower, Full Auto, Fireball, etc which reveals their prescence.

Also like I said before, perception powers reveal a Stalker like you wouldn't imagine. I can't go into a PvP zone without seeing every hero with goggles on.

Basically the Stalker has to work to get the "one shot" while the Blaster does not.