Reppu
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Posts
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Joined
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Having the power makes Pack Mentality give stacks of +Critical. You want it, definitely. As for slots, 1 LotG is good enough, 1 or 2 Recharges is good as well but anything beyond that is YMMV.
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Quote:The idle periods are more jarring for Beasts. More attacks means quicker acceleration of Pack Mentality which means better overall damage. Increasing their base damage doesn't fix that annoying 'going to sit here and wag my tail and not do anything!' They like to do during 'cooldown periods'.Originally Posted by Lobster
Sorry about getting annoyed last night, I always forget how obnoxious you [Reppu] are. The style attached to your forum persona is always jarring to me, especially after so many years of relative calm here. Dragged me right down with it. Alright, thicker skin and more sleep and moving on...
My last comment was primarily about attack chain gaps, not the nerfing bit which you grabbed onto. People are obviously going to disagree with game balancing mechanics - my take on it is that if you have one set that is generally overperforming, and would be just fine with a nerf, and a handful of sets that are OK (even if some are slightly under) - you nerf that single power or powerset. Yes, some of the other sets could use boosts - but in general they are OK. OK in the grander scheme of the game, even if they are "weak for an mm".
We're obviously not going to agree there, so fine.
(If the devs want to spend the time buffing every other MM set, and their fine with that level of power great, more power to them.)
Attack chains: Are people seeing *attack chain* issues with beasts with the 32 buffs that are worse than other sets? I'm not in the 20s, my experiences seem to match the numbers above. Definitely less standing around than zombies. Ninja are the outlier here due to their large number of low recharge attacks. Maybe a little more so than demons, but I think we agree that demons are a little on the strong side?
If beast damage is low, I would rather see the base damage on attacks buffed instead of say, recharge lowered or another attack added. I think this would work better due to the way pets run around a lot in general play (unless you have an immobilize or, at high levels, take a patron immob - but one might use caltrops and like the enemy running around). Plus, people like big numbers, especially with crits.
Also, flat-out insulting me is against forum rules. -
Quote:... The best? No. That would be a Trial AV. Which... Illu/Cold has soloed one of >_>Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Now, see, the reason I brought this up is because you brought up that MMs couldn't do it as well as some other stuff, and I can't remember why that was brought up.
And yes, it is a showing of ability, of a very certain ability. It is not a showing of a set's viability, granted, but of a specific player's ability. To go up against a GM solo is not stupid, it is simply fun. To fling yourself at the best the game has to offer, to be met with something that lasts more than twenty seconds, that is fun.
And with /Time, what it lacks in -regen it makes up for with pet survivability. Even with Ninjas I rarely lose any. The lucky shot will take one out, but they are all soft capped to all positions.
And, no, it is not the pets that make it possible, it is the pets that make it easy. Ok, so perhaps they aren't the fastest... and I still have trouble believe that a Defender or Corruptor can out-damage Ninjas in single target DPS, but it is simply easiest to do on an MM. As a Defender, Corruptor, or Controller there is always that chance of simply being oneshotted. With an MM you have something like 5000 health.
And obviously the statement that 'nobody cares' is inherently false if you are arguing with someone who does, in fact, care.
No. It's not showing anything other than how overpowered Support sets are. Also, the only risk the other ATs have is being hit by a ranged attack. Mastermind Pets have to deal with GM's all having a Foot Stomp clone or some such.
Either way, no. GMs are just giant HP sacks like Reichsman. Go solo some of the more recent AVs.
Also, what MMs can't do as well as other ATs? Shrug.
It's simply just a merit of "Do you have enough -Regen? Good, you can solo a GM."
That's it. That's all it is. -Regen. As for your Time doing it, that's good. Were you using Envenomed Daggers? Even so, Ninjas ST damage combined with the Debuffing of Time and it's small -Regen would be Good Enough.
End of Story: It's not skill, it's not the best the game offers. Just walking sacks of HP that don't really pose any significant challenge. -
Quote:Spectral damage is a non-issue at SO levels and is flatly no longer acknowledged at IO levels.Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Ok, admittedly those CAN do it, but asside from the Crabterminds I have trouble believing they could do it faster.
Illusion can do it easier no doubt, but much of their damage is Illusionary. In a long fight with a GM, that means you are sacrificing a good 50% of your damage.
A Defender has to same trouble- yes, they can survive with the proper secondary, but I highly doubt they can work up a ST DPS to match MMs.
Corruptor, same thing to a lesser degree. Yes, after half health your damage basically doubles, but I still fail to believe it out damaging a raging MM.
ANd as for Traps and Poison being the only viable ones... I've solo'd Adamastor, Babbage, Paladin, Ghost of Scrapyard, Jack and Eochai (both separately and simultaneously), Kraken, some Monsters on Monster Island, a Rikti Pylon, Deathsurge, and Caleb on my Ninja/Time MM, all quite easily (except Jack, that fear is terrible). I've also done it on a Demon/Thermal MM with Ghost of Scrapyard, and Dark Miasma seems like it would have little trouble. Sonic and FF could do it too, with a Primary that has properly high damage or -regen.
/Storm is the only one I see being almost hopeless trying to solo a GM on, due to the vast majority of its mitigation being rendered useless.
As for your claims, I have one suggestion; Go make a GM Speed Kill thread, if you think it's some sort of (bad) baseline of performance. Because all that matters when killing a GM is your -Regen.
Illu/Cold and Illu/Rad has immense -Regen, Immense Debuffs, and then a ton of damage flying out from 5+ Pets.
Crabterminds just have sheer numbers.
You underestimate Defender damage with Patron Pets. But I do believe certain combos have some really amusing outcomes.
Corruptors WILL win that race at the 50% point if they're Fire. Or Ice. Super Scourge nom.
Anyway, done with the comparisons. You are forgetting one major fact; a lot of Giant Monster AoEs can one shot your pets.
As for Time Manipulation, it's lack of substantial -Regen is to note it will be slowed down severely for it. But, anyway, I'm done discussing this because.. it's stupid. GM soloing is stupid. MMs can do it really well but "Who cares"? That's not a show of their ability to solo well, honestly. That's just them having a Support set >_> Which is all you need to solo (Or are a Crabstermind).
Can you argue that it's the PETS that make it possible, not the Support Set? Because you can't because Defenders and Controllers were doing it way before MMs (And Corruptors).
MMs may outspeed most of those AT combinations, but a Fire Corruptor, an Illu/Anything Controller, and a Crabstermind win the 'race' that doesn't exist.
Nobody cares! -
Quote:Illusion Controllers times infinity.Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Yes, if you aren't going the global nerf route, and instead the global buff route, those are all great suggestions.
I am curious, though... What can solo Giant Monsters better than MMs?
And yes, they are of course defined by their pets. Controllers are not. Mastermind is the pet class, pure and simple. The support set is given grudgingly if anything- The powers have higher end cost, lower effect. If the support numbers were on the level of other ATs MMs would jump from Over Powered to Game Breakers
Defenders with the proper primary.
Corruptors with the proper secondary
Crabterminds, period.
Soloing GMs is also not something I like to discuss because it's silly, but those above ATs can generally do it faster.
Keep in mind MMs can only do it with the proper secondary as well, generally speaking that secondary is almost always Traps, followed by Poison.
The above support ATs aren't as limited. -
Beast Mastery:
Tier 1 Wolves + Alpha Wolf: Need an additional low-cooldown attack so they do not have a 33% 'idle period' time.
Tier 2 Lionesses: Need an additional low-cooldown attack so they do not have a 33% 'idle period' time.
Tier 3 Dire Wolf: Needs an additional low-cooldown attack (or two) so it does not have a 33% 'idle period' time.
Example of Attack: A Flashing Steel clone, or simply another use of each of their 3 second cooldown attacks (Vicious Bite for all wolves, Claw Rake for Lions). A Flashing Steel clone would help not only their single target disparity, but vastly improve their AoE.
Fortify Pack: Change the +Regen to +Max HP, perhaps 10% base +1% per stack, to a maximum of un-enhanced +20% Max HP for it's duration. A superior metric than +Regen on low-HP pets.
The attack changes alone would, definitely, help with their big damage crisis. And having bluntly superior ST damage would make their lack of AoE less of a 'design flaw' and more of an 'acceptable sacrifice'.
Fortify Pack giving Max HP would be a worthwhile survivability boost over... pathetic regen with pet base HP. -
Quote:Shock and awe, I tend to do those more often than not!Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Alright, an actual well thought post with no insulting words, something I can work with.
Yes, Controllers get pets. No, they are no where near what MM pets are. You cannot direct a controller pet, you cannot use Bodyguard. What Masterminds offer is not simply more powerful pets, or even more numerous pets, but more controllable pets. Pets that you can actually command, albeit not perfectly. I would LOVE to see a controller try to be a Mastermind. As for Corruptor and Defender, they hardly factor in. A petless MM, sure, would be on the levels of a gimped Corr/Def, but MM is a completely separate thing to either. It is rather like saying MMs are gimped Brutes because they both do damage.
If I were going to nerf the vast majority (not everything) I would do it all at once, with the release of a new Issue. Anything else would be absurd, you'd wind up with a 'balance' even more wonky than it already is.
Though, I must admit, this game is more balanced than many I've seen.
The global nerf thing was done before, and people rioted. Admittedly it was for the best, but not the topic right now.
Moving on, first and foremost; MM's are Support ATs. Much like Controllers, Corruptors, and Defenders fall into this category. Even if they aren't PRIMARILY support, they are Support ATs.
Now, I won't argue the 'controlling your pets' aspect because that isn't that big of a perk these days, I'm sorry to say. Yes, the added level control is good but in the end, every AT's pets are there to back you up, and the uncontrollable pets do it Well Enough.
... Ignoring the recent destruction of the pet AI.
You also confirmed my own opinion, however; MMs are defined by their pets. The baseline of power, arguably, SHOULD be where Demons/Thugs/Bots fall. MMs are defined by their primary. And honestly, these three sets are not overpowered. MMs can do some pretty silly stuff solo, but other ATs and combinations do it BETTER.
There's no reason not to give BM a few extra attacks per pet, give Necro a bit more AoE damage, give Mercs better attacks IN GENERAL, and give Ninjas better survivability.
Demons MAY be the only overpowered one of the bunch, BUT;
Robotics single target relies purely on it's -1000% Regen, which is good in many cases but not so much in others.
Thugs NEED to keep the Arsonist in check and the Bruiser alive. With out them, it loses a LOT of it's omph.
Demons are stupid. -
Quote:I don't really agree with Necromancy being the baseline because MM's take so many losses to their support nature, that having 'average' pets is detrimental. Why take an MM over a Controller at that point? Controllers win fights more so than MMs do. Defenders have beyond superior support numbers. Corruptors can deal more damage than the lackluster primaries.Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Yes, lets nerf ninjas, the set that you claim to be underpowered, which I still find hard to believe.
No. Necro seems to be a good point for a Mastermind set.
Besides, in my opinion the vast majority of the game needs to be hit with an enormous nerf hammer.
The pets NEED to be powerful because the AT is focused around them. When you take away the viability of the sets, you have a gimped Corruptor/Defender/Controller.
Even I feel Necromancy could do a bit more (the lich could deal a bit more damage in it's powers, just a bit). Ninjas needs BM levels of BASE survivability. Mercenaries need their ST attacks reworked.
Thugs/Demons/Bots wouldn't be the Trio of Godlike if Ninjas got that change and Necros did a LITTLE more AoE damage. Oh, and if BM actually did damage.
Now, if you were going to nerf EVERYTHING, where would you begin? -
Quote:Nerf Ninjas too because they do too much damage!Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Freezing Roar? bad Metrics? What the hell are you even talking about?
Yes, I said specifically that they were cones and how small they were, I was hiding nothing. And I also specifically said that Ferocious Growl was non-damaging, no need to point that out again. You said the set had no AoE- I proved you wrong. With numbers, I heard you like those.
And yes- Bots, Demons, Thugs. All of those should be nerfed.
And bad metrics means it's a bad spherical cone. If you don't understand what that means, it basically means it's true range is garbage. But you could tell with a 50 by 30 cones with Pet AI. -
Quote:Thank you for agreeing! Phew, glad to see someone is able to understand why decisions are bad.Originally Posted by Lobster
No.
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Quote:OG's stun is only worthwhile if you have another stun, since OG is, mechanically, not allowed to stack.Originally Posted by plainguy
I have MANY lvl 50 toons with no energy resistance that can solo 4/8 and are incarnated. So whats the point ??
You have not toxic resistance and there is no toxic defense. So against toxic attacks Soul is better off.
But what does it matter if OG is stunning everything but a boss. How much damage does a stunned mob do ? Zero.. Which is what is big about Soul not the shield. Though the shield helps either way.
So what do other masterminds that don't have Mu ? Are they doomed ? No.. If you have the bases covered end game wise missing one thing or another is not going to be an issue when it comes to resistances. This game really isn't that hard or complex..
You should think.
Considering the one stun in Dark Miasma is already beyond the magnitude to stun almost everything in the game...?
The Lionesses do get an AoE Mag 3 Stun, so that plus gloom would equal a (brief) Mag 5 Stun total... but you'd have to rely on them not wasting that (which they often do).
I know you love Oppressive Gloom, but it needs set synergy. And the only synergy (Lionesses) relies on the Pet AI not Derping.
So yes, Oppressive Gloom is great! ... With Synergy that you can control and is not reliant on luck.
Mu Mastery still superior for easy to use and good damage AoE Immo and a superior shield. Toxic is underused, Energy is not. -
Nerfing a set so another feels better about itself is the wrong way to go about it. It if you nerf demons, then what? Nerf Thugs. Nerf Robotics.
Hell, let's branch ATs. Nerf Phantom Army while we're at it!
No. -
Quote:So you're saying the evolution of lore-based power, aka the Incarnate System, should be ignored in favor of YOUR special roleplay? Sorry, you wouldn't be worth the arena match. You'd just get a palm pressed to your head and then you'd explode or something. But I guess you'd want to use your incarnate slots in both the Arena Fight and/or the Mob Killing Spree while stressing "THEY ARE NOT INCARNATE POWERS SHUT UP ;_;!!!"Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
That's an incredibly harsh, intolerant, and arrogant opinion if ever I've seen one.
It's not a matter of "can't" work in that story, it's a specific desire not to.
If I am infinitely and immeasurably weaker than your incarnate pather, we can either decide that in the arena or by some contest of how fast we can defeat enemies. If your acceptance of the incarnate path makes you more powerful than my character but you cannot demonstrate that in game, then it's no better than saying your car is faster than anything on the road because you have Formula 1 stickers on it.
My character doesn't need the well of furies to be stronger than yours. I'm sorry to burst your bubble.
Denied on both counts, because you're being childish.
If you can't accept the Incarnate System in a game where it is crucial to the ongoing plot and cannot work it into your character because you feel they don't remain in spirit of your character, don't get upset when someone who embraced the Incarnate path can just roleplay you being a gnat, because I'm sorry for the following revelation;
Even Incarnates with 5 slots are immeasurably immensely in-canon powerful than those who lack them.
You may choose to ignore this, as much as Reiska put it, I will consider you insane. And you can try to boast saying it should be decided in the Arena (you lost ALL of your RP credibility with this claim, Dechs) or a killing spree (nice to choose something involving AoE with your general theme of characters, Dechs), but again. In canon? Flick to the forehead, your head explodes. -
Quote:Fair enough.Originally Posted by JayboH
Ah well, they just looked funny together - some posts are hit or miss.
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Quote:From the overused meme? Yes. From me? Sorry, I'm magnitude over nine-thousand.Originally Posted by JayboH
Maybe just the forum wants that break-free.
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Quote:Oh, I totally did. And it felt like it was true.Originally Posted by JayboH
Best part is, I didn't have to do a thing! I suppose the single solitary emoticon in between the quotes took a huge effort?
This must be one of those "purposefully call someone out" instances.
And yes, the quotes take a lot of effort. Either way, the point of quoting? Taking one serious statement and one joke statement and trying to use them against me? Lame! -
Quote:Nope, he's not good enough for it.Originally Posted by JayboH
I think he just wants the superior break-free.
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See? He can't even look upon their awesome. He is too ashamed of his own failures in life. -
Quote:I know what I posted and I stand by it on both counts. Trying too hard again, Jay.Originally Posted by JayboH
Also, do note this, because apparently your reading comprehension has dropped since Beta!
"Welcome to Masterminds, really. Thankfully it's one of the few AT's that doesn't >need< to rapid-fire spam powers so high End Per Second costs aren't a big deal."
While this...
"If you're not guzzling down Blues, you're not spamming your powers enough!"
Is largely in jest.
Stop trying so hard. -
Quote:Energy is far more common than Negative, sans for mid-level Circle of Thorns. That's the only major enemy group that uses Negative to a worthwhile extent, something that you've already out-leveled by the time you get Soul Mastery.Originally Posted by plainguy
I disagree, though there is a 10% difference in the resistance shield numbers for smash and lethal which both Mu and Soul shields share.
I think end game wise if 10% is such an issue then your doing something wrong.
Think next time.
JayboH: "Unless inspirations are too good for you or something." Suggests that you're inferior to Inspirations. You shouldn't be. You should have a joyous bond together. It's IMPOSSIBLE to be too good for inspirations, so why would it type it otherwise?
Only a conceited person would assume they are too good for inspirations. And that's impossible because inspirations are superior to everyone!
I know what I wrote ;P -
Quote:No. Anyone who refuses to use inspirations due to some conceited egotism is, uh... yeah. Ending that there.Originally Posted by JayboH
...did you mean unless I am too good for inspirations?
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If you're not guzzling down Blues, you're not spamming your powers enough!
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Thermal is also right there but specifically with Demons, and Storm Summoning is underestimated more often than not. I won't deny Time is an amazing secondary, arguably broken even. But not so much that I'd only roll Time.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Chill_Out
While the possibility exists you may revel in being insulting, I'll assume its your enthusiasm for Traps that drives your personal diatribe.
Yeah, FF needs some attention, ala Gravity Control. Perhaps one day it will get it.
But for someone who hates resummoning FF Generator, or finds its being too slow for fast and dynamic teams (its always lagging behind on maps, never where I want it, except on AV fights, and getting caught on geometry), I love Dispersion Bubble for its reliability.
I also like that no matter where my crazy pets go, there they are, with their +25 Defense deflection shields/insulation shields on them. They don't need to huddle under the FFG. Assuming it shows up. Late to the party.
You should chill out a bit! :< It's not my fault I love Traps and it IS a superior set to FF!
Mad Grim: You, uh, like giving false advice, huh?
Dark has Fearsome Stare, which trumps any alpha-opening Time has. Time's 'opening' is jumping into melee for Time's Juncture and then firing off Slowed Response, or opening with Slowed Response. Either way they or their pets are taking the alpha. Dark? Dark Fearsome Stare's, Tar Patches or Darkest Night in some order, and trolololols.
To say Time has the superior alpha is a joke and a bold-faced lie. -
Welcome to Masterminds, really. Thankfully it's one of the few AT's that doesn't need to rapid-fire spam powers so high End Per Second costs aren't a big deal. That and a tray of blues is wonderful. Unless inspirations are too good for you or something.
Shrug.