Reppu

And it comes full circle. The plea I made, which you chose to ignore to slur against me further, is now being used by you after being exposed by someone besides me.

If only you had accepted my attempt to do that in the first place, instead of aiming to go full-circle and try to paint yourself out as the 'mature' one, this would have ended sooner. But, I suppose I shouldn't have expected more, and I'm glad I didn't.

Enjoy yourself in game.

That wasn't the intent, in so much pointing out more that you had accepted an apology, and you were actually an initiator in throwing insults. It was a case of "if Nalrok and I can agree to disagree and move on, why the heck can't we?"

But, again, intentions can be mistaken.

I never claimed to be a victim. I am fighting an uphill, pointless battle. No offense, but can you read and not assume? Thank you. And try to abide by one, simple request; Stop playing Dechs off as innocent. Neither of us were, and neither of us should be supported for what we did. It only promotes this sort of behavior.

Cold doesn't compare to Dark at SO levels for soloing. Superior recharge times all around and the almighty Fearsome Stare are more than enough for this.

Sleet is no doubt powerful, but Cold has far too many dead and poor upkeep powers to make this one, although very powerful, power make up for what Dark brings.

Shadow Fall is superior to Arctic Fog.
Twilight Grasp
Fearsome Stare
Fearsome Stare
Fearsome Stare
Dark Servant
Fearsome Stare

Sleet > Tar Patch, but Benumb is pretty much a strict AV killer (Which you aren't soloing in SO's), and Heat Loss is just 'there'.

Dark Miasma is flatly superior at SO levels for soloing, and is arguably better at IO levels for non-AVs.

Cold is arguably better for teaming at SO levels, and flatly at IO levels.

The big thing is; While Sleet is POWERFUL? Fearsome Stare stops Alphas.

You're a horribly angry and bitter individual. Childish, if I could go so far. Considering I've proven your condition earlier, while you continue to act like a child who isn't getting what they want, I don't see a reason to prove myself TO YOU. I think it's time you prove yourself TO ME that you are more than an angry toddler.

Stop playing the victim already, Dechs. Nobody thinks you're the victim as much as anyone thinks I am. You got just as aggressive, by your own words no less, as you claim I have. The only 'strawman' I see now is you trying to justify your bitter, angry words in some hail-mary attempt to not look like a total jerk.

Congratulations, you've failed and prolonging this angry, child-like behavior is not helping anyone.

Now, I want you to pay close attention to that quoted piece. In fact..

I put emphasis on the key point. Did you miss it?

Special Snowflakes are bad roleplayers. I just used the Well of the Furies as a very clever way to mask over the true culprit, which is 'believing one's character is any more special than any other', which you have shown to be the case in your own little DechsWorld time and time again by claiming superiority and blah blah blah.

My initial attitude has changed somewhat, as WELL WRITTEN AND EXPOSED alternatives to the Well are more than acceptable. Shock and awe someone can have a change in opinion in a discussion! What is the world coming to?!

Also, read the quoted text again, when you get the blood out of your eyes. You two DID strike the first PURPOSEFULLY aggressive blow, just because my opinion is against yours. And I can admit it was because I chose poor wording. Nalrok and I both acknowledged it was a stupid, pointless argument that NEVER would have happened if all parties took slightly more care in wording and had a bit more understanding.

And last I checked Nalrok and I put this whole mess behind us and acted very civil. Oddly enough after you stopped posting because you had to go to bed. Funny, I wonder who is turning into the real issue now?

But, even if you have an alternative? You are not superior to an Incarnate. You simply cannot be. If you can't accept this, you're going into Minority Territory. People who have alternatives tend to accept they are going to end up weaker by some varying degree because, let's face it?

You can't beat Potential. Not in this setting. At least within the current canon storyline. If you claim you can,, you're throwing the setting out for yourself and THAT IS BAD ROLEPLAYING.

But, I think I'm done with you, Dechs. You're going to respond, again, by being a hypocrite. But most importantly? You're going to continue to act like an angry, bitter little child who is upset at mommy for not buying him 24 more super packs.

Grow up, and maybe we'll talk again. Get over yourself, and maybe you'll be worth my time.

Nalrok will still be given an apology, but you? Not sorry for anything but what was stated before. But your continued rampage? Nah. Grow up, kiddo.

I've seen more than my fair share of roleplayers who go "I am Incarnate with out Incarnate, no risk of death if I'm cut off! HOORAH!" and the like, which is the thing I'M MAJORLY against. If you can explain your 'alternative' and make it's growth and risk comparative to the Incarnate Line, that's cool.

Although arguably you're still tied to the Well or your races own version of it, that's more lore stuff.

I have a friend who does an "alternative incarnate". I'll post the details if she wants sometimes. It's an example of 'acceptable', to me.

Edit: Ahem!

Basically; well thought out, well explained, realistic risk. Anti-Matter has done the same 'style' of thing, so it even has canonical backing for how powerful and dangerous anti-matter and related power sources can be.

The most important thing is; a well thought out and explained weakness comparable to an Incarnate being 'cut off'; IE Dead.

But I DO respect your choices. As a player, I OPENLY EMBRACE originality... UNLESS it dumps on a setting. While I still respect that choice, I do not need to accept it ICly. And I DO disagree with anyone who shoves off the Incarnate Lore for being 'poorly written' or 'against my concept'. That story isn't finished yet, of course it's going to LOOK like a mess.

This is why you gently mold it, very, very gently. You make it work for you, with out totally abandoning it. When you abandon a MAJOR element of the current story arc and setting, yes. I strongly feel that individual is a bad roleplayer, but I respect that decision because, let's face it. Poorly written or unfinished content is hard to work with.

Opinions do matter to those who express them. When one's opinion is attacked for not being popular, they will defend it. But, the problem lies with the attacker, not the defender. If you do not like someone's opinion, express it with out getting entirely confrontational. When I posted saying I disagree with the OP and those that agree with them, I did not MEAN to start a war. That was just a poor side effect.

I was simply expressing my opinion on the topic, and that was all. A freedom of speech, if you would. Both you and Dechs violently disagreed with me, and this is where we are now; subtle or obvious insults and jabs being slung.

This? This is poor debate, and I hate when it goes this route. Perhaps I could have worded my original post better to try to 100% NOT insult anyone, but I don't regret having my opinion or what I have said, because I expressed my feelings. I DO regret the fight that erupted, I DO regret offending you, and I DO regret charisma-breaking Dechs. But I do not regret having my opinion.

As such, I do strongly apologize for the confrontation turning as ugly as it did. I would have loved if a more spirited and well-mannered debate would have come from it, but let's face the facts;

1) My original post could have been worded a little more carefully to avoid pissing anyone off, although we all know that it being the unpopular opinion is part of why it got attacked.

2) My apologies for pointing this out, but you and Dechs did strike the first aggressive, rude, and confrontational blows. Should you both had also chosen to word yourselves a bit more carefully, this never would have happened and we'd probably be better off and having a much friendlier conversation or debate.

Alas, we've each made a mistake. Regrettable, but it's where we stand now. I'm sorry for offending you both, as a person to people. But, I do not feel bad about my opinion not meshing with yours.

I am certain you're both splendid RPers (I've been subject to one of Dechs 'parties' before, it was enjoyable), and have no quarrels with you unless you are one of those "SUPA NON-INCARNATE NO RISK HAPPY HAPPY" types. Then, well. Eh. Setting. Bent over knee. Whatever.

That's all.

Don't know. Something about you, specifically, and Dechs flipping your lids because I had an opinion that didn't share the same visions as yours? That's why I'm posting still. Or are you saying just because I don't share the common opinion that I shouldn't be allowed to share it? Because that's entirely what you and Dechs have been going off about.

Because I do not share your opinion, you both have been singling me out. While my post was just a broad thing, an opinion against the norm, and nothing more.

If you're going to single me out for my post, that's fine. Do acknowledge you went out of your way, the both of you, to be confrontational. I've been defending my half of it with my own views and opinions, which you both have called me out against for not being the common acceptance.

If you do not like the opinion, as you have stressed to me so many times, DO NOT ACCEPT IT. Why you've posted thus far is simply an attempt to argue where an argument does not need to exist.

I do not approve of Incarnates Who Are Not Incarnates when there are no risks involved. If that path has risks, awesome. I'd love to hear about it. THUS FAR THAT HAS NOT BEEN THE CASE. All the power, none of the risks. SUPAMAN!!!

I do not approve of Kheldians Who Are Not Kheldians. That's all that is. A Warshade or Peacebringer who says they are is IC considered to be a little crazy, to say the least. It's dropped as quickly as it's brought up.

Private Storylines are awesome, but when you go into the public RP pool, you kind of should consider things in a public manner. When your Super Awesome Incarnate Who Isn't An Incarnate +100 is strutting their stuff, be prepared to be looked upon like that individual is insane.

Regardless, I'm done with both you and Dechs attacking my opinion because you either 1) Did not like it or 2) Felt it was singling you out. Because neither case is VALID for OPINIONS to be attacked.

Get over it, both of you. You're being childish and bullying because you're not happy. I have never once grabbed anyone's posts from the get-go and rip them apart.

Yes, I do think people are bad roleplayers if they must break lore over their knee for their concepts in a public setting. I should clarify IN A PUBLIC SETTING.

Yes, I do think people are bad roleplayers if they are an Incarnate Who Is Not An Incarnate and is a superior, non-risks individual. That is a lame Mary Sue/Gary Stu and is an embodiment of bad roleplaying.

Yes, I do think people who RP Kheldians That Aren't Kheldians are bad roleplayers because that takes a MASSIVE dump on the lore and foundation of the ATs.

End of the day? Opinion. Don't like it? Cool. Don't get confrontational about it and then paint me as the villain because you don't like that I think differently than the popular (two page) opinion.

Whatever you say, boss. Jump off the bandwagon already.

In regards to this, that's a misconception. I don't care what anyone does OOCly, I was more expressing an IC standpoint. Incarnates who aren't incarnates are mind-boggling, eyerolled at, or are just submitted for approval by the loony-toons mobile. That's pretty much it.

OOCly? Do what you want. I just don't need to accept it.

Actually, your characters would be insane. And in my opinion, strictly opinion, you would have failed as a roleplayer (for breaking the basic rule of 'Not breaking story for your own concept, IE; Eberronian in Faerun). At least use proper context when not flailing around like a chicken with it's head cut off, you silly!

Also, an example of ad hominem is the following statement:

When suggesting your superiority, you are inflicting inferiority to me. As such, you are claiming your superiority is based purely off my inferiority. As such, your entire argument is based purely off this one line of logic "I am superior and you are inferior."

Or, basically, "You are wrong because you are inferior, I am right because I am superior. Therefor, you have no ground."

As a result, you are invoking ad hominem because EVERYTHING you have said, with those two paragraphs and a few lines, is entirely based off proving I am inferior through your own ego and my choice of roleplay.

If you didn't mean to come off as this, you failed PRETTY amazingly.

Pot. Kettle. Black. Etc.

Also, Texas Hold 'Em is a better game. Now go calm down, again. You're failing to keep composure and trying to hide your own flaws by twisting what I've said against me, and quite frankly it's really, very obvious. Just because I am not using a popular opinion does not mean you can use that against me. Which, again, is another failure of logic on your part.

If you don't think the above is ad hominem, fine. You're still a biggot and hypocrite, because I, at the very least, acknowledge that what people do in privacy is their own right. When they bring it public, they will be viewed as 'insane' if they think their powers are superior to incarnate-hood or if they are a Kheldian Who Isn't a Kheldian, or any other odd-ball concept.

Insane =/= Bad Roleplayer. Unless, of course, they're an Incarnate Who Isn't An Incarnate But Is Superior To Incarnates And Can Take Incarnate Power And Can Be Super Saiyan Incarnate and blah blah blah wow you're a waste of time today.

When you bring it ICly, that is how I'll ignore it and move on.

"Wow. That Kheldian who says they aren't a Kheldian is kind of a lunatic. I'm going to walk away now."

We're done now. You don't listen well.

Were Stalkers able to solo as effectively as Brutes/Scrappers(/Tankers)?

Were they able to perform as well as Brutes/Scrappers in their team role of damage, when considering their (Normal) lack of AoE and decreased survivability?

If your answer is "yes" to either one, you're lying.

Stalkers could not solo as effectively as Brutes or Scrappers due to their, generally radically, altered melee sets. CoX is a game of AoE, we can't deny that in 2012.

Additionally, even with their team-buffed 30% Crit Rate before their buff, Stalkers were not keeping up with Scrappers or Brutes. And don't pull a TwoHeadedBoy and say your KM/StJ/MA Stalker was keeping up. Those three sets do not define the AT as a whole. Oh, and those sets perform better on those AT's anyway (Sans StJ now, Stalker version could use a bit of a nerf. A small one.)

Stalkers did not perform on the same level as their brothers/sisters/whatever. Period. It's not even debatable. They had far less survivability and did less damage.

=/= Logic?

When you're doing it wrong, you're doing it wrong. Don't get upset when I eyeroll at your character and call them a lunatic.

You forgot the part where it floods Local/Team/League with "DON'T WORRY GUYS, I GOT THIS." or something equal to this.

It's your opinion, and it should be valued and honored because it is.

And no, I don't accept the playstyles of others in public roleplay if they bend and twist lore into a shape that isn't remotely close to source. I respect their choice to do so, but will still ICly laugh at them, call them a lunatic, and walk off.

Play by the setting or lock yourself back up in your base. Deal with my choice, because you don't have a say in that. Done!

Are we really going to bring in game mechanics here? Fine, I'll counter with "Solo the Freedom Phalanx in LRSF or Lord Recluse in STF with out Incarnate Powers or IO's, because the game isn't balanced around the latter and aren't considered beyond a brief tutorial. And why no Incarnate Powers? Because you said Non-Incarnates have been soloing them."

Reichsman doesn't count he's just a giant sack of HP.

Either way, no. The rest of what you said is fine, but... no. Game Mechanics and how to break it =/= lore.

You have one heck of an ugly side, don't you Dechs? Oh well. Let's tackle this one step at a time!

1) You're using ad hominem against me, in an attempt to suggest my points are logical fallacies. You're using a logical fallacy to try to expose a logical fallacy. This is the wrong way to go about it. It just paints you out to be a hypocrite, which nobody wants. Relax.

2) You don't accept the Incarnate System's LORE, which is what I was saying. And even if you do, let me stop you for a moment and point out that you are saying you have in-character superior alternatives to the Incarnate Power and the risks that path takes. Let me point out, as well, not only is this Mary/Gary of you, depending on character gender obviously, but a huge slap in the face.

The known alternatives that grant Incarnate Power and are recent enough to matter are 1) The Tsoo Soul Ink and 2) The Furies. Both have HUGE draw backs and are WORSE alternatives to the Incarnate Path. The drawbacks of YOUR alternatives should be comparable to those two, or else you did "I HAVE INCARNATE POWER WITH OUT THE RISKS ^_^". Which is a tool-decision.

Now, IF your alternative has a radical downside to it, then I take this all back, obviously. But since most people tend to avoid purposefully designing MAJOR and LEGITIMATE character flaws, grain of salt until proven otherwise.

Oh, and since Incarnate Power is dubbed as the bridge to ultimate potential, well... yeah. You're still inferior to an Incarnate, end of story. Maybe your power is close to theirs, but you're inferior. Plain and simple, no way around it. Inferior.

I'm sorry. Deal with it or do private roleplay. In public, anyone, to me, who is not an Incarnate and is using a LOGICAL alternative, is still inferior in the end. Maybe by a small amount, but inferior. And if they have the nerve to do "All the power, none of the risks!", they're a tool and not worth my time.

Also... your alternative is still tied to the 'potential' of your race. That you can't escape. So, actually... your alternatives are already explained as tied to the Well of the Furies no matter what. So... this argument became pointless with that revelation, but let's continue because you're fun to talk to.

... Unless you ignore lore, then you're just flashing your ego again.

3) Stop talking about who has the superior character. Not only does this make you seem like you have an easily bruised ego, but it paints you out to be a bit of a jerk. As super awesome as your characters are, when you try to say that your in-character character is superior to my in-character character, you lost just then.

And mechanically? You aren't worth the time to devote a 'challenge course' to. Any challenge you state, I can just spend the next twenty-four hours power-leveling and IOing the perfect match for that challenge, and then prove nothing. Again, why you even brought up Game Mechanics in your defense is laughable.

'I can farm better than you can so my non-incarnate beats your incarnate!'

'I can PVP better than you so my non-incarnate beats your incarnate!'

If you REALLY want to do those challenges, let's open it to everyone, not just between us. Again, this isn't worth my time and is already taking too much of it simply responding to. I'll throw anyone you want at you for PVP and Farming Speed. Whatever makes you happy. Just, I'm not wasting anymore time with it. Grow up.

Bottom line? You can't demonstrate your characters are superior to mine, because this is opinion. That's all. You've lost this because it's opinion. And if you really want to try, you're probably losing your marbles at this point because it's an unwinnable battle, no matter who's side it is.

Calm down already, Dechs. If you don't like someone's opinion, just ignore it and get on with your life. Don't make yourself look like this.

Actually, you probably get scoffed at due to hyperbole.

But, let's face it. Titan Weapons needs some major nerfs, Clobber from Mace could deal 50% less damage and still be broken as sin (because it is).

At this point, Melee Sets either need massive nerfs (Titan Weapons NEEDS massive nerfs regardless), or Blast Sets need serious buffs (All blast sets need to be buffed to Fire Blast levels of damage AT MINIMUM, and then increased from there. Don't believe me? Fire Blast is equal to Katana, an average Melee Set. EQUAL TO THE MOST AVERAGE MELEE SET :|)

Wait, this thread was about Scrappers not feeling special anymore?

... Shut up.

I'm toning it down with out censoring myself, at the very least. Don't expect anything more!

I have not purchased it. I can ask any number of 50 MM's to allow me to sit and watch their pets (not) attack in RWZ.

And again, cease with the (not) subtle jabs. Be mature if you're going to chastise.

Either way, I am a happy individual who plays ISaved/800Points.

It's a 2 second pulse, mind you. So it's not as 'easy' as you think.

And yes, Charged Armor is that good. Because Minions should handily die very, very quickly.

Also, I can pretty much point out how useless OG is in Dark with the following;

You have Fearsome Stare.

You open with Fearsome Stare and the Minions are feared until dead.

Also, Tentacles is vastly inferior to Fences. Much less damage, bad cone metrics, etc etc. They don't even compare, at all.

Mu > Soul in every feasible way for Beasts/Dark.

I consider the superior power of Electrifying Fences and Charged Armor over a weak stun? That's just me. Also, it's a tiny radius so you'd have to herd everything together to stun EVERY minion. In reality you may stun a few.

Huh, is it Mag 2? Odd. You're right, I was thinking Soul Transfer. Thanks for that.

But, yeah. It's uh, not worth getting OG just for a mag 4 stun that's up maybe once every other spawn.