Puretone

unfunny, ungentlemanly and uncalled for.

/ignore

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Remove the isolator badge.

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Agreed. If it'll stop this ridiculous arguement they can have mine back.

Take it completely out of the game. Problem solved.

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Down with the isolator badge! Nurf it in I7!

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... when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

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Fair enough. Puretone, go get mah gun!

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::Gets Liquid his gun::

::Keeps the ammunition::

::Feigns innocent look::

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So why is it it seems that a lot of people feel like pre-I2 toons shouldn't get Isolator? That whole "Well if they can get Isolator, we should get the event badges". No you shouldn't get the event badges, by the time those badges came out there had to be some magazine ad you saw about CoH, you weren't playing then, that's your problem, not pre-I2 people.

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In response: when I2 came out, "you could have re-rolled your character right away and gotten Isolator. You had an entire month to level such re-rolled charactes up, before the first event even happened. Then you could have had every badge, with ZERO special treatment."

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There's already a precedent.. "Privateer" badge. Sky Raider skiffs were added in response to player requests. The devs so far havent introduced any system to this game that punishes for any past effort. That some (in a lack of faith in Dev reasonableness) chose to reroll is entirely their own choice. It was not one forced on them.

Datamining cannot be done on any pre-Issue 2 kill-x badges. There was no counter in place at the time.

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That might sound mean, but it's the truth. Now if the devs want to put the Halloween badges back in there (for example) and you have to earn them like the others did then that's fine, but no one should be given the badge cause they weren't playing then.

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I wouln't expect to be just GIVEN the badges, but you have to admit - if "you" (in the sweeping, generalist sense) get a special mission to go back and get Isolator, why shouldn't someone like "us" (also in the generalist sense) get a special mission that provides an opportunity for THOSE badges?

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That is indeed a case of 'missed the boat' Isolator is one of 'the boat's still in the harbor and passengers are still boarding'.

Now, if it were a case where you were here for the event, and did not receive an bagde because it was poorly implemented, then I'd be right there saying you should get it. If for whatever reason *YOU* the player missed the boat, then no, sorry shoulda been here playing.

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Even if they get the badge by not earning it I wouldn't have a problem with that. I'm not going back on what I said earlier about if you didn't earn it you shouldn't have it, for all we know the pre-I2 players with toons pre-I2 would have done what was needed to get the badge.

I say the devs should either just give them the badge or give them a chance to earn it, that would be the fair thing to do.

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I would prefer te status quo was maintained, BUT, the scenario I've agreed to above would be ... let's call it "the scenario that would offend me least". Mainly because, well ... at least I would get another badge and some new content out of it, too.

I'm sorry the Developers decided to put a badge solely in teh Tutorial, with no city-wide special event planned to let post-tutorial characters have a shot at the badge. I'm sorry the developers never thought to provide some OTHER means to acquire the badge, "way back when".

But that doesn't change the fact that just handing it out, willy-nilly, goes against the grain of earned badges - and giving ANY sort of "oops, you missed it, here's a second chance" setup for ANY limited-opportunity does leave a sour taste in the mouth for many of us who missed OTHER neat badges with limited acquisition opportunities.

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Then you should have paid the fare. WE did. My scenario allows new content and an opportunity for *everyone*. Certainly, my goal is for me to get something out of it. Any suggestion made on these forums has that goal by the poster. But, it also allows everyone else to as well. It repairs an inequity made against older toons.

Last, in response to 'remove Islotator from the game', the devs wont implement something that knowingly punishes a player.

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"Slippery slope" is not an inherently false premise. The fact is, the moment you give people a "way-back machine" for ONE badge, someone else willpop up and [censored], whine, moan, and complain about ANOTHER badge, until it TOO gets it's own "way-back machine" opportunity.

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Except that in order for the argument to be valid, you would have to have an environment where those claims don't already occur. And in this environment, they very definitely have in the past. When the Winter Lords came back, there were posts of, "Let us have the other badges from Frosty!" I'd bet when Halloween rolls around again, you'll have a good number of posts on gettting those badges again as well. And cries of, "Where's our Celebrant for the two-year anniversary?"

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The point isn't that allowing ONE o-back will create desires or suggestions regarding the other badges, it's that it steadily gets harder and harder to say no, each timeyou say yes.

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*boggles*

That statement makes as much sense as saying "I say no every time my child wants to see a movie, no matter what the movie, because if I say yes just once it's harder for me to say no the next time."

Or a boss that says "I say no everytime an employee asks for a raise, if I give one a raise, then it makes it harder to say no to the next one."

Most adults make descisions on a case by case basis. Saying yes in one instance doesnt make it any harder to say no in another in the real world.

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To use a real-world example: If you ask me to bake you chocolate chip cookies, and I do so, it does not guarantee that I'll be more likely to give in to your request of, "Bake me a cake!".

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No, but if you show up in a roomfull of people, with a big, heaping plate of cookies, and I ask you for one cookie ... you look like a bit of an [censored], if you say no to the next person. If you say "yes" five times, the sixth person is VERY likely to be offended if you finally say "no". And remember, it's just ONE cookie, apiece, from that plate. IDENTICAL cookies for all intents and purposes.

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The real example is more along the lines of setting out your tray of cookies after a few guests arrive. The first guests go off to dance. *You* decide the cookies are only for guests as they walk in the door. In order to get that cookie people entering have to stand on their heads and count to 100...

No..

I was going to continue this analogy but no. i wont feed into analogy. It is a waste of effort. If you cant see it you cant see it. I do hope that at some point you learn to compromise. It will prove to be a frustrating life, as most people will refuse to kowtow to your wishes.

Briefly, asking for something to be given (in this case a badge for all pre issue 2 characters) is an entitlement. That you think it should be unearned is a sense of entitlement. It is in fact you asking for a 'gimme'.

We are not asking for a 'gimme' but a way to earn something.

That you continue with insults .. well it ends my interaction with you. I refuse to play a childish game of 'insults win arguements'. Have a good day.

Totally and completely OT: Post 300

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As it stands, my pre-issue 2 toons have no chance whatsoever to get Isolator.

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Each and every ONE of my characters have no chance whatsoever to get Hallow Spirit, Malleus, Celebrant, Toothbreaker, and the like.

So ... your point is?

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Where did you see someone say these events will never happen again?

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Celebrant, at least, is inherently an event that will never happen again. Sure, COV may have it's own parallel - but it won't be the same badge.

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There has to be some reason why you feel you will never get the chance to get these badges on your heroes.

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"The event during which they were available has ended." Sounds simple enough to me.

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Isolator has been here since issue 2 and has not been avaiable to people who missed it, so they can actually say there is no chance in the world they will get it until someone actually makes it avaiable in game.

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To which I have said, [bif[/b] the character was created pre-I2 ... give them an alternate badge to recognise the fact that they pre-date Badges entirely.

But going back to get a badge you missed? Or having ANYone who lacks Isolator be able to get a pity badge? No; ten times, no; a hundred times, no; TEN THOUSAND TIMES, NO.

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See right now, Isolator is known by everyone, so if they roll a new toon, they can easily delete and re-roll. For us veterans who missed it, we do not have that option now, because if we were to reroll, we would be giving up even more badges then what we would be gaining and not have the chance to earn what we lost until the special events rolled around again.

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If you're so sure that the events WILL roll around again that you can dismiss my entire "what about X, Y, or Z event badges" concern ... then hurry up, delete, and re-roll.

...

Or are you perhaps saying that you really are concerned that those badges won't ever be available again?

Think about it.

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You provide circular arguements. You're taking whatever stance that lands you in opposition to any idea. On one hand you agree with this post..

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[Edit Bold added by Puretone for emphasis]Your choice would lead to one of two completly different endings, different temp powers, and ultimately a different badge depending on which ending you recieved. Once you got one, you would be unable to get the other for that character.

In the end, I think that would help *improve* the game.

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First, the topic of the thread is the Isolator badge. If you have nothing constructive or (as far more typically) destructive to add to a suggestion for Isolator, say nothing. If you have an idea for a totally different issue create your own, seperate topic. The above post doesnt belong here.

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Sorry Puretone, but, you'er out of line with this one.
IMO, entirely relevant. Indeed, his suggestion would suit me, with my "limited supply" preferences, quite nicely.


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Yet you then disagree with its implementation. Circular arguement is no arguement.

1. Under my proposal, each badge is still earned. You must complete a mission to earn the badge or temp power. It is not 'something for nothing'

2. For the record, I'm not a badge exclusivist. I would love to see an opportunity to earn some of the previous kill x badges that were effort rewards during special events. I think that anyone wanting a badge that requires some sort of effort should have that opportunity. Perhaps next Halloween Paragon City and the Isles will be littered with glowing pumpkins.

3. the fact remains that Isolator is not a special event badge. It is not a 'log in and get it' badge. The only one that closely resembles it is the sky skiff badge. sky skiffs were part of the 24-33 TV trial. anyone over 33 could not get it. The devs added the skiffs to the Terra Volta zone in response.

(Zookeeper is not a comparable badge. People got heartburn because the requirements to get it.. 1000 as opposed to 10000.. were lowered. Even though they were made tougher than when 10000 was required.)

But these are (mostly) arguements I've given before. I figured I'd give my own circular arguement in response to yours. When you think of something new, so will I. Until then, I will simply regurgitate my old replys to your old arguements. Please let us know when you come up with something to back up a blanket 'no'.

PS Toothbreaker is still available. Roll up a toon on Virtue or Liberty and I can help you get it.. after the event is over I might add.

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Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread: The Pro-Isolators in this thread are being nice, cordial, and posting constructive ideas to rectify a badge that should have been taken care of long, long ago. Our counter arguements are also nice and cordial.

Not once in this thread have we done as you described here Celtic:

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...You [censored], whine, moan, and further prod just to get something your way...

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The only people in this thread that are acting that way are you Celtic and the other Anti-Isolators.

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Way to over-polarise.

Frankly, this thread exists in the first place because at least ONE person had the attitude of "gimme". As I write this, I note that we're up to PAGE THIRTY-SIX already - and, I mean, why else ... if not to "[...] [censored], whine, moan, and further prod just to get something your way [...]" ...?

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Wow, great way to show irony there.. whine and moan about whining and moaning... complain about the page count while adding to the page count...

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Almost every "solution" presentedhere has only created multiple additional problems (largely related to Event badges); the only one that wouldn't be a problem, really, is my own idea: give the pre-I2 heroes their own exclusive badge called Old-timer or Golden Age Hero or the like. But not Isolator; Isolator is supposed to be earned in the Tutorial, and nowhere else.

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Hey, I like that better than my own 'alternate text' idea. I'm assuming this is something you could get behind as opposed to gaining Isolator in some other way. So instead of me ripping and tearing at you, how about we build on that?

First, the rewards..

Any pre-issue 2 toon recieves 'Old-Timer' Badge (Golden Ager is cool, but a little too cool compared to Isolator). Text to read "You've been in Paragon City for a long time." (or maybe 'I remember when.." )

Any post Issue 2 that did not receive Isolator or Jailbird gets 'New-comer', text reads "You're the new kid in town" (which works for heros or villains)

Anyone with Isolator or Jailbird gets a nifty limited use temp power.

Make it a pocket D mission so villians can get this too. At mission complete, first the creation date is checked. If before issue 2, you get old-timer. Next it checks for Isolator, if no isolator flag, it checks for jailbird.

This does 3 things. It allows oldtimers our own badge. It allows those who passed on killing 100 contaminated their own badge (yeah they have to share it with villians, because they missed the hero or villian specific one when they had the chance). Finally it gives the Isolator or Jailbird something useful for their persistance. (Note that a short term temp power does not equal an accolade.. just saying before someone else says it..)

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And here's a dig for you "must have EVERY badge" folks: Bug Hunter. The odds of another player being awarded that are so close to zero as to be indistinguishable from it. IOW, "fat freakin chance".

But it HAS been awarded ONCE.

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There's still a chance though. However small.

As it stands, my pre-issue 2 toons have no chance whatsoever to get Isolator.

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Another idea for Isolator!

The Abandoned Sewer System is underneath the entire city, so why not have an entrance in Outbreak!

IIRC, heroes that reach level 35 can enter the Abandoned Sewers. They would have to find the route to Outbreak and would exit a manhole cover in the street. They would be autoexemped to level 1 upon entry.

They could take out 100 contaminated, get the badge, and the only way back to the city would be back through the Abandoned Sewers.

The manhole would only work for L35+ so level 1s wouldn't be able to use it.

This would also be a way to help teach friends that are new to the game. You could meet them in the tutorial and show them the ropes!

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Liquid & Celtic,
What do you think of this idea?

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I don't like it, and theres to much risk to allow Level 50's back in the tutorial zone. What would stop a group of level 50's from getting in, then simply destroying any contaminated they see and preventing people from being able to continue? That's not exactly a way to make a good first impression on newplayers.

What I wouldn't be adversed to, however, is Puretones suggestion. Setting up two "versions" of the badge, with alternative text. If you get one version, you wouldn't be able to get the other. While it would be defeating the purpouse of having Isolator as an "Easter Egg" of sorts, I think it would make for an acceptable compromise.

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Will wonders never cease..

On further reflection, I have to agree. Allowing anyone over L2 to go back into 'real' Outbreak is asking for trouble. Not only for the aforementioned chance for greifing new players, but also in how the outbreak area works, you could do the outbreak mishs, talk to coyote and wipe the contacts again and repeat ad infinitum. Gaining free xp, TO's and two large inspirations along the way.

Not that the xp is huge or the TO's garner a significant amount of inf, but as the prestige glitch showed, people will be persistant if there's 'free stuff' involved.

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I hate it. Why? Well, because it lets the squeaky wheel get the grease.

>snippage of Celtic's rant<

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Arent you being a 'squeaky wheel' here as well? You repeat the same noise over and over without actually adding to the conversation or the debate. Noise does not equal signal.

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In two-five years, this game may not even exist anymore. Hell...it may not exist as of this Sunday, and yet, all you can think about is wasting, yes, that's right, WASTING, company resources for a tiny, insignificant item that doesn't give you anything other than a title (one that most people won't bother using).

Seriously...nobody is going to think "Ooooh...that guy has isolator AND all of the other badges...he must be cool"; if anything, they'll be saying, "Wow...he's taken the time to get isolator and every badge in the game? It looks like somebody needs a life."

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The age-old 'get a life' put down, used by teens and preteens everywhere. Classic and always handy when one has nothing useful or original to say yet wants to keep the appearance of being 'cool' and 'hip'.

But to counter your 'Resources need to be spent on things that are important to the game' arguement, i proffer the following quote..

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Trenchcoats are announced.

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Amazingly enough it is on topic. Because along with trenchcoats also announced were not one, not two, but Three new sets of elf ears as costume options. I'm sorry, but if there are resources for three new sets of elf ears, theres enough to get our little idea accomplished as well.


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As to wasting company resources, many of you have said, "What about the other events? Pocket D? PDP?" Well...I have news for you--I don't like those either! The PDP actually had a use, though. It was a preliminary test for the devs to see how they could make, and intrigue people into going to, a neutral zone. That zone would later turn into Pocket D, which is a neutral zone which has actual use for both villains and heroes.

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Wouldnt my variation on Liquid-X's 'multi-path' idea be a way for the devs to test multi-path missions (mission complete perks vary according to past choices made)? They could look at it on a small scale to see what could break if it were fully implementd.

Now correct me if i'm wrong, as I'm sure you will, but arent the devs talking about origin and AT specific missions, temp powers and badges? Wouldnt a small scale test of such a system be in order? All the better if that accomplishes a secondary goal...

Except of course for your umbrage...

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Now, if getting X number of badges is all you care about, then, as has already been suggested, I think having a "pre-Issue 2" badge for all characters that were created before Issue 2 would be fine. That would be a brand new badge, representing something completely different, and thus would not affect the existing badges.

Another possibility would be to have a mission that is only available to those without the Isolator badge. Although you took part in taking out the contaminated, one of them escaped and has infected an area. Your mission is to stop the infection. Completing this mission will give you a badge.

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I like this idea, but to make things fair to those who are post-issue 2 and without Isolator for whatever reason I suggest a combo of the two. Now I am keeping in mind 'what would cause the smallest use of resources and make the smallest footprint on the server.'

have a mission granted by the city Rep, like the cape or aura mission. A single mission that does the following checks at completion.. if creation date is (before issue 2) then badge A is granted. If the creation date is after issue two and you dont have Isolator then badge B is granted. If you already have Isolator, you gain a low powered limited use temp power. like a 10 use healing power (which is already in the game) or somesuch. (because I think the people that had isolator should get something cool too)

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First, the topic of the thread is the Isolator badge. If you have nothing constructive or (as far more typically) destructive to add to a suggestion for Isolator, say nothing. If you have an idea for a totally different issue create your own, seperate topic. The above post doesnt belong here.

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My post was in reply to another poster, so it fits here just fine. If you don't like it, then you shouldn't have read it.

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I reread my post, and it did contain a sharp edge, for that I appologize. But my opinion holds that it obscures the OP's intent of the thread, and remains inappropriate to the discussion. Yes the thread was drifting. I chose your post (which contained a wholely separate topic) as a stopping point for that drift.

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And as some have stated here, forum goers only comprise a small amount of the player base. Why should the devs care what their common complaint is? (not that I ascribe to this philosophy, in fact, I abhor it. If the Devs did not care, then there would not be a forum.)

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So, you think that dismissing the common complaints on the forums are bunk, but then you dismiss my post because it comments about one of the common complaints on the forums? Make up your mind, please.

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I never dismissed your post. I found it inappropriate, not because of the idea it proposed, but because the idea was not germaine to the the topic of the Isolator badge.

But there was another reason behind what I said. It was to show a point. The prevalent opinion (at the time Annie_O took the time to count original posts), was roughly 2-1 in favor for allowing Isolator badge to be obtained in some alternate way besides Outbreak.

Our (the Pro-Isolator for everyone crowd's) common complaint in this thread is that we would like a way to gain Isolator on toons that had no chance to obtain it. Something that is still being offered to any new toon in the game.

My point to this is that you yourself allow that a prevalent opinion here on these forums does matter. I believe the prevalent opinion in this thread should be allowed the same weight. I'm trying to find a common ground that can be build from instead of tearing ourselves to pieces

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We arent asking for the moon, simply that in some far, dusty niche of Paragon City, some contaminated escape from Outbreak. Heck, as I said before, I'd pay for the privledge.

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But it still wouldn't fit the intent of the badge. The badge is intended as an "easter egg" of sorts. And the badge even SAYS "You started your career on a high note". It wouldn't fit if gained any other way.

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And is that text written in stone? I know that there are 'pre-respec' and 'post-respec' texts to all three Terra Volta trial badges.

Why not 'You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone.' If the badge is obtained in Outbreak.

Or... 'You have helped end the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone.' if it's obtained by the 'alternate' Isolator mission.

Something that maintains the rarity of the original Outbreak badge and soothes the OCD of badge collectors without it.

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First, the topic of the thread is the Isolator badge. If you have nothing constructive or (as far more typically) destructive to add to a suggestion for Isolator, say nothing. If you have an idea for a totally different issue create your own, seperate topic. The above post doesnt belong here.

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Thread drift happens. If you have been following the posts that lead up to that one, it does indeed fit into this thread.

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Then low and behold, along came Striga Island, where many a Warrior Elite frolicked along with Wolves and Vamps and Family bosses and sky raider skiffs. There was much rejoicing.

Speaking of Sky Raider Skiffs, they originally were only appearing in the 24-33 TV Trial. Which some people ran many times to get the required 100.

After Striga was implemented and Terra Volta then sprinkled with skiffs o plenty, were the badges gained by the TV trial alone somehow cheapened? Were people saying 'I quit, they cheapened my badge.'?

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You do realize that Striga was not added simply so that badge hounds could get the badges easier, but for the content that it had in it, don't you??

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So, on one hand you say cut some slack and then hang me with the other?

Of course I realize that more went into the zone than mobs. But many of those mobs are badge mobs. Part of the design factor was to ease the spawn camping, ksing and other foolishness happening in the zones where 'rare' mobs spawned.

Sky skiffs in Terra Volta (the zone) were only added after an alternate means of getting them was requested by the players. Much as the Pro-Isolator for everyone side is doing.

I will admit the next is hazy as to specifics, but i recall that, at the time, you couldnt exemp into the TV trial. So in effect some had 'outleveled' the chance to get the sky skiff badge. To keep the player base happy, skiffs were added to the zone at large solely for the 'kill x' badge

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Okay, I have to call Shenanigans, after hearing this stated several times. This is the Suggestions and Ideas forum. Nowhere is it categorically called the "Debate Your Ideas" forum. Thus, all you have to do is come out, post an idea, and then leave it; the devs will look at it and decide whether they like it or not. Nowhere is it said that you have to convince a majority of the forum population in order for an idea to be considered 'cool' by Jack and Co.

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Incorrect, I'm sad to say.

You can suggest whatever you like - but once it gets past hte originating post, the thread becomes a debate ... on the relative merits of that suggestion. At which point, it is beholden upon the pro-change camp to provide that compelling reason..

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Incorrect. The thread discusses the merits of a plan to allow anyone that wants a chance at getting the Isolator badge to get it. It is not a debate on whether isolator should be given. If you wish to introduce that factor to the debate, then it is up to you to back up that arguement with compelling reasons to not allow Isolator for everyone. In reading the thread, it is the 'Anti-Isolator for everyone' crowd that itroduces that factor, not the 'Pro' side.

Neither side has to convince the other. Neither side will. The ones each side has to convince are 'Jack and Co.'

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The "status quo" - IOW, the game as-it-is-now - has the benefit of inertia. If something isn't currently broken, there needs to be a compelling reason to make a change to it, which might subsequently introduce a break into the game..

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Ahh but it was broken. By your sides definition of 'Event', Isolator is a currently broken event. Isolator is and has been an ongoing event. It does not have a finite life in the game, it has a finite life to individual characters (when they choose to go to AP or GC). Unlike any other 'Event', as you define it (i.e. Cold Warrior, Malleus, Frozen Fury, Celebrant etc.), Isolator was not and is not now available to all characters that logged on during the time that it is available or at the time of its implementation.

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People here can say they want Isolator, and the only reason they want it is because their main existed prior to the badge being available; that's justification enough in their eyes. The ones against that concept can say, "No, it's fine the way it is," and that's perfectly justifiable in their eyes. the only failling here is for one side to convince the other, because neither have solid, evidence-supported arguments to sway the opposition.

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It now falls to convincing the Developers - and I daresay the "leave it alone" angle has presented more compelling reasons not to change Isolator, than the "gimme" camp has presented in their favor.

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I see one of the ways you choose to 'debate' is to belittle the other side into submission. 'I will call them a smarmy name and win by sheer force of name calling. For obviously, I am superior' Apparently your sides 'I win' button.

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And I, for one, have given more reason than just "No, it's fine the way it is," thanks. To re-summarise: handing opportunities to get any ONE badge out, cheapens that badge - and should only done if you hand similar opportunities to get ALL limited, no-longer-available badges again. And thus, it cheapens ALL of them. Hallow Spirit, Celebrant, Frozen Fury, you name it.

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Please see my post above, but breifly, other 'kill x' badges were 'cheapened' in a similar manner. Since Isolator does not fit into the category of 'Special Event' (available to every character at the time it was implemented), this arguement holds no weight.

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Thus, when the devs look at it, both sides are going to be equally balanced on the issue, because neither side has provided any conclusive evidence as to whether the idea is good or bad.

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Only true if you close your eyes and ears to more than half the thread.

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I concur with your statement. The 'Pro-Isolator for Everyone' side has produced ideas and counter ideas to the dogma of 'inertia' presented by the 'Anti-Isolator for Everyone' side. Something inert is unable to move or act. Hardly the label I would apply here.

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Claiming that all you have to say is, "Them's the breaks," in order to win an argument when someone calls for change is wholly untrue. It just means you, like them, don't have a convincing argument as to why the change should not occur.

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Actually, all I have to say is "the current state is not broken, and I see no compellign reason to institute a change. Give me one, and maybe I'll accept you are correct". I have said more than that, however, and the balance is IMO strongly in favor of "tough luck".

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Yes yes, and WE say it is broken. It was broken at implemantation and needs to be fixed in some way.

Excuse me, but your thumb is on the balance sir...

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One of the more common complaints from people on the forums is that simply choosing new powersets is not enough to justify playing through the game. New things to do are needed. The way I see it is that (In my opinion) two important things need to be done:

1) It needs to be impossible to get every single badge on one character.

2) It needs to be impossible to do every single mission with one character. (Or be unable to experience the full scope of the mission if exemplered down/sidekicked up)

What *I* ultimately want to see are branching story arcs, with badges that can't be obtained if you have a different badge.

For example, lets say you have a Contact named... John Jacob Jinglehymer Smith, who asks you to find out what the freaks are up to. The Story arc at some point could branch with a choice. Say, either going to "interrogate" a Freakshow for information, or instead taking a coded message you located to a cryptogropher to decode it.

Your choice would lead to one of two completly different endings, different temp powers, and ultimately a different badge depending on which ending you recieved. Once you got one, you would be unable to get the other for that character.

In the end, I think that would help *improve* the game.

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First, the topic of the thread is the Isolator badge. If you have nothing constructive or (as far more typically) destructive to add to a suggestion for Isolator, say nothing. If you have an idea for a totally different issue create your own, seperate topic. The above post doesnt belong here.

And as some have stated here, forum goers only comprise a small amount of the player base. Why should the devs care what their common complaint is? (not that I ascribe to this philosophy, in fact, I abhor it. If the Devs did not care, then there would not be a forum.)

The point remains, that for some of the playerbase, Isolator is important enough to us that we will jump through any hoop, grind through whatever godawful TF or mish, kill, crush and / or destroy whatever we have to in order to get it.

We are not asking for a fundamental change to the way the game is played. No nerf nor buff to any powers. We're merely asking for a change of location. No, actually we're asking for an additional location.

There is precedent for such a change. For a long time some of the targets for kill X amount badges were woefully rare. For example, the Warrior Elite were hunted to near extinction on Talos. They were so rare that I myself ran the last mish in the alexander mini arc 87 times to fight the single warrior elite boss.

Then low and behold, along came Striga Island, where many a Warrior Elite frolicked along with Wolves and Vamps and Family bosses and sky raider skiffs. There was much rejoicing.

Speaking of Sky Raider Skiffs, they originally were only appearing in the 24-33 TV Trial. Which some people ran many times to get the required 100.

After Striga was implemented and Terra Volta then sprinkled with skiffs o plenty, were the badges gained by the TV trial alone somehow cheapened? Were people saying 'I quit, they cheapened my badge.'?

Those of us that collect badges have proven time and again that we will do whatever is needed to collect a badge.

We arent asking for the moon, simply that in some far, dusty niche of Paragon City, some contaminated escape from Outbreak. Heck, as I said before, I'd pay for the privledge.

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Whereas I am opposed to any scheme that says "here, here's everything in the game - you get ALL of it, regardless of what choices you make." I'd rather one's choices had an impact on how the game plays out for you, and on what you "have" at the end of it all.

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Cool, then we agree. I simply want the opportunity to either get or to pass up the isolator badge for my pre-issue 2 toons.

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Essentially, what I hope for is more of a directly-logical discussion on the pros and cons of the solutions being thrown about, in terms of some established goals - such as, would such a solution make more players more satisfied with the game, or less? Would such solutions increase the game revenues, or decrease subscription durations? Is it going to ultimately lead to better numbers for Cryptic and a happier population of people can go back and get their character a badge... or if they reroll an alt and get it with them instead?

This, I think, is what really needs to be talked about. ^___^

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Well, consider this: do you really think that anyone who made their character pre-I2, and who is not currently playing, would come back ... just to get the Isolator badge ...?

Conversely, do you honestly believe that those pre-I2 players who are still here, will suddenly up and leave en mass simply because the policy of not ret-conning the Isolator badge in for them does not change ...?

I'd say the answer to both questions, in the majority of both cases, would be a firm and clear NO.

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The same arguement could be said the other way around. Does granting a way to get Isolator for those that want to impact anyone elses gameplay?

If it was made into a mission or as part of a TF would it lessen or impove the content?

Would creating such a scheme cause someone to throw their hands up in disgust and leave the game?

The same answer as yours in my opinion.

P.S. I can think of one person that would come back, honest.. (ok, so he *does* have OCD but he *would* come back.)

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I'm quite aware that it's all bloody-well moot anyway. ^_^

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Not as long as Cuppa keeps asking for us every once in a while

And the long version was nicely put

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To be honest, I'm against the Flashback system to. It would hurt replayability.

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I'm against not having a sidekick/exemplar system. I've been to other MMO's without it. They are a social wasteland. CoX without the social aspect of playing with whomever you want because you can't do the same missions would result in level stratification .. a level elitism if you will, that is socially hard to break into until you become one of the elite.

No thanks, I'll pass.. just like I passed on those other games.

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You misunderstand me. I'm *not* against Sidekicking and Exemplering. I think that in itself is a good system. I'm against being able to exempler down and get badges that you missed. *thats* what I am against.

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To not allow exemplars to earn those badges would raise a whole new slew of greed-based teaming problems. CoX would become City of Soloists.

'Sorry I need to do my mishs so that I dont outlevel 'badge X' far an accolade.'

Actually offering the badge for the TF's and missions gives the L50 a reason to exemplar down and do them. The longer you can play on one toon, *that* stretches out replayability.

Now, it *is* possible to get every badge .. mission, TF and Zone (like the Hollows, Striga and Croatoa) that's offered in the game at the level it's offered (barring special events). The problem is, you have to only do your mishs, and then you'll need debt at several points if you team too often. I have a Tank on Virtue that did just that.

To accomplish that however, I had to be mission greedy and semi-antisocial. It was an experiment, so I know it's possible. Do I want to play that way all the time? No thanks.

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That logic does not apply here Moon.

We can take our level 50, exemp down and run new content with our friends. I've done every mission in The Hollows, Striga, Croatoa, and the new PVP Zones with my main.

We didn't outlevel and miss our chance. Every other kill # badge in the game is accessible! Isolator was put into a zone we no longer have access too.

And yes, we can roll a new character and get Isolator. And I've done so with every character I've made since Issue 2.

But my two 50s, the two characters I made the first week COH was released, and my two main badge collector characters, have no way to get it. We're just asking for a way to do that.

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For the record, I don't even like the fact that you can exempler down and gain badges that way and hope they remove the ability to do that. It hurts replayability, and it's brought about the nasty little buisness of people "selling" spots on badge missions. (Like to get the Spelunker badge)

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*Hi-fives LiquidX*

Right there with ya. I'd rather see the Flashback system for going back and getting stuff you missed. That would make it MUCH more interesting... that right there would hopefully settle this entire arguement.

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To be honest, I'm against the Flashback system to. It would hurt replayability.

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I'm against not having a sidekick/exemplar system. I've been to other MMO's without it. They are a social wasteland. CoX without the social aspect of playing with whomever you want because you can't do the same missions would result in level stratification .. a level elitism if you will, that is socially hard to break into until you become one of the elite.

No thanks, I'll pass.. just like I passed on those other games.

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Actually, he paid for the privledge, as did anyone that preordered.

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Technically, you didn't pay for the pre-order. If you put down, say, 15 bucks at EB games, then you got the Pre-Order box. However, you also had 15 bucks deducted from the cost of the game at the time of purchase. So, your still paying the exact same amount of money you would have if you DIDN'T get the pre-order box, you just give them some of the money as a guarantee that you will actually be coming back to buy the product later.

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When money changes hands its called "paying". He or she plunked down his money early to have the privledge of playing early.

Now I've never pre-ordered, so if he doesnt buy the game when it ships, does he get that pre-order fee back? My guess would be no, because he's actually paying to have a guaranteed copy waiting for him at the store. There's no guarantee he'll buy it.

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But teh context seemed like he was saying people payed EXTRA to play early - not payed early to play early.

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meh.. so sue me.. I was picking a nit to a nit-pick

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The Tutorial is an EVENT, whether you like to believe that or not. Why do I say that? Because just like every other event (like the most recent holiday one), you can skip it and it doesn't adversely affect you in anyway.

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That's incorrect. The tutorial is not an event. Skipping the Tutorial wasnt even an option until later. You had to go though it to get to AP or GC.

The 'event' in this case is the Isolator badge, not the tutorial itself. Unlike any other 'Event' it wasnt made available to everyone. A 1st level toon made during the holiday event has the same chance to get all the badges for that event as a L50, and vice versa.

The same cannot be said for Isolator.

In other words, not everyone had the choice to 'skip' it. That choice was already made. Some of us would like that choice.

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Here's something for all the people saying don't allow a way to earn isolator or don't datamine for those that may have actually taken out 100 infected: how about this...What if they give Trenchcoats as a costume option only to characters created from tomorrow on...is that fair?

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You are using the costume creator to justify a badge? I'm not even going to go here, because it's just that ridiculous to think about.

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Actually it's a much better analogy than the hospital one. By the same logic of 'Isolator does nothing for you', neither does a trenchcoat. Yet everyone would want the ability to at least be able to attain it if they wanted it. The same reasoning is behind the impetus to allow those with CoV the new villain costume options on their Heros. Like the Isolator badge, costumes do not effect gameplay, it does effect game enjoyment for some of us.

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[edit: re datamining] No, there weren't, because the badge didn't exist before I2. So datamining at this point is futile and irrelvant.

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TF badges didnt exist before I2 either. They were datamined for. The problem with datamining is the length of time and resources required to do so. Datamining is an unfeasable option at this time.

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Actually, he paid for the privledge, as did anyone that preordered.

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Technically, you didn't pay for the pre-order. If you put down, say, 15 bucks at EB games, then you got the Pre-Order box. However, you also had 15 bucks deducted from the cost of the game at the time of purchase. So, your still paying the exact same amount of money you would have if you DIDN'T get the pre-order box, you just give them some of the money as a guarantee that you will actually be coming back to buy the product later.

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Now I've never pre-ordered, so if he doesnt buy the game when it ships, does he get that pre-order fee back? My guess would be no, because he's actually paying to have a guaranteed copy waiting for him at the store. There's no guarantee he'll buy it.

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When I pre-ordered CoV, I was told that if I chose not to buy the game, that I would get my fee back. Now, I don't know if that's common or uncommon, because that was the first time I've ever pre-ordered a game.

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Thanks Annie!

Well then the original line would more correctly read 'He paid early for the privledge of playing early, as did anyone that pre-ordered."

I'm sure it benefitted Cryptic in some way. Such as pre-sale numbers, competitiveness with other games shipping around the same time or some other marketing arcanery that an MBA or somesuch could supply the answer for. Prolly somewhere in there is a customer satisfation factor, but it's really a guess on my part.

Comet, the idea of datamining has come up before.

Positron (if I recall correctly) explained that in order to datamine something like that, each and every character record would have to be looked at. (They were looking at doing that for the Shard TF badges.) The result was that to compile such a list, it would take roughly two years and that was about a year ago.

And i just thought of a better idea. Make it a L50 TF that starts at the crash site. There is a portal there after all.. Include time travel aspect by having the mishs exemp you lower as you go through the TF. Have the TF give its own badge, but add the side benefit of including contaminated in the last couple of mishs in enough numbers to get the badge.

There.. unique L50 content. New TF Badge. Recycled mobs for easy content. And a chance to get Isolator all in one.

(edit for some spelling and expanding on an idea)

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Actually, he paid for the privledge, as did anyone that preordered.

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Technically, you didn't pay for the pre-order. If you put down, say, 15 bucks at EB games, then you got the Pre-Order box. However, you also had 15 bucks deducted from the cost of the game at the time of purchase. So, your still paying the exact same amount of money you would have if you DIDN'T get the pre-order box, you just give them some of the money as a guarantee that you will actually be coming back to buy the product later.

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When money changes hands its called "paying". He or she plunked down his money early to have the privledge of playing early.

Now I've never pre-ordered, so if he doesnt buy the game when it ships, does he get that pre-order fee back? My guess would be no, because he's actually paying to have a guaranteed copy waiting for him at the store. There's no guarantee he'll buy it.

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[edit] - The problem is Isolator doesnt fit into special event category of badges in any case. Special event badges are available to anyone present at the time they are implemented no matter the level. Isolator is the only non-PvP badge not attainable after 'outleveling' it.

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Nope. There's also "Jail Bird", the COV Tutorial-only badge.

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Jail Bird is different from Isolator in that everyone has a chance to get it on their villain, except for a Hero -> Villain transfer...maybe...

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Correct, Jailbird was there from the start of CoV, not so with Isolator.

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Well, i find that a bit unfair, considering I made my character during the 3-day headstart at the launch of CoH. But...if its not going to happen, im not going to complain.

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Un... fair...

You got to play the game 3 days before ther general public and you think because you didn't get a badge that's it's unfair?

<Dr. Evil voice> Riiiiight...

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Actually, he paid for the privledge, as did anyone that preordered.

On that note, I'd be willing to pay for the privledge of getting Isolator on my three 'made before issue 2' toons.

As for 'well the resources are better spent in developing new content'. I disagree. By recycling old content into new special events (in this case the contaminated), the resources used in creating special events could be devoted to developing actual new content.

Or, adding a contaminated mission to one of the Level 45-50 contacts would indeed be low cost new content (something that level range hasnt had in a long time).

For the those that say no because they hate the topic, well, you'd never have to see the topic again.

[edit] - The problem is Isolator doesnt fit into special event category of badges in any case. Special event badges are available to anyone present at the time they are implemented no matter the level. Isolator is the only non-PvP badge not attainable after 'outleveling' it.

First, I want to apologize to the forum for my glib reply reguarding Artic Air over Hurricane. I was following Dev Digest and thought this was a general Hurricane thread. I did not realize this thread was in the Defenders forum. So, again mea culpa.

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At the height of my Kat/Regens power (read: able to tank Hami) giant monsters were not soloable for me. Nerfs to Regen after issue 4's release were in direct response to PvP issues. not PvE.

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Did you forget Divine Avalache or something? That single power provides as much relative -acc as five DM/ attacks.

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Actually I didn't have it. Until L35 and the first time I respec'd I had all nine primary powers. In order to have more reliable and consistant defence, I dropped it and two others from my primary in favor of the fighting line. It was ether that or Flashing Steel, and FS is a cone attack. I opted for doing more damage to more mobs. Dark and spines each have more than one attack that adds to defense. A single attack can miss. Five attacks missing is a rarity. (although not an impossibility).

I still stand by my second statement however. In issue 4 on teams I died no more than any other teammate. Since issue 5, I am the weakest link. And frankly I'm tired of running to test repeccing several times, only to be nerfed again for another round of respecs. (issues 3, 4, 5 and 6 plus a special mid-issue Regen only nerf in there somewhere)

To say 'well it fixed a hole in PvE' is disingenuous at best. The 'holes' only become a problem when they affect PvP play.

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Before the fixes to AI between i5 and i6, ANY enemy that could see you, inside a mission, would follow you until you zoned, died, or went from floor to floor. My Storm/Elec used Phase Shift a couple times to get through missions, and when he got to the end, it was quite common to have a few million enemies surrounding him.

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Ok, thinking on it (I had PS on one toon only and not for long) I did have invis and superspeed on. That may be why I never encountered that mob behavior. They always wandered away eventually for me.