Pebblebrook
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Quote:The social aspect or lack thereof would be a significant difference between an offline single player game and an online multiplayer game of which teaming is a part.Originally Posted by RogerWilco
Shouldn't the main difference between a single player RPG and a MMORPG be the grouping? Shouldn't that be one of the main things to focus on when making such a game?
Yes, single player games tend to be short term entertainment, that's the expectation when developing them. You just want it to be desired by enough people to buy in and hope they'll like it and thereby want to buy more either through dlc or the sequel.
MMOs having a recurring cost for the host and also, often times, a large initial debt, you would not only want a lot of people to buy in initially but to also stay for as long as possible. You do this through regular content updates which often is a lot more than updates (dlc) to a single player game. But there is also known evidence that social bonds between players help in player retention. If you make good steady friends, the longer (usually) you tend to stay.
Though i would probably question whether that social bond is done through forced-teaming. Even though i'm not into large groups i do team on occasion. And even in CoX, maybe more lately than earlier in its history, i don't get as much social bonding in teams anymore.
More times than not, the extent of the social bonding i experience during the few times i partake in the forced-team content, is no more than: "Thanks for the invite"..."gratz"..."Thanks for the team, gotta go"
then i may not see them again or even care to.
Now what did get me to stay longer than my interest for the actual game allowed, was the bond i had with a friend duo'ing mostly "team-optional" content. And we've been doing that since we met when CoV launched. So that would make it about 6 years...for reference i think i can narrow down to around 3 or so years ago when the game started losing its grip on me if it weren't for my weekly game nights.
And of course there are the soloers.
So i don't know...social activities should be encouraged and have the means to facilitate that. But not sure about the rest since people, despite having a guild or sg full of friends, do still leave for other games and may have a cascading effect on the rest of the guild/sg members. Although i think when some groups move to other games, they may take the group with them so the social bond is still there even though their bond towards the game is not. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Party_Kake
So hard to figure out what game you're talking about. EQ2?
Whenever anyone mentions crafting, it's immediately apparent whether or not they've ever played the old pre-NGE SWG, because that game which no longer exists had the most amazing crafting experience ever.
Yes, that first one. Sorry, don't know anymore if mentioning the actual game name would get modded but i err on safety.
I picked that one because i was going for a mini-game crafting experience not too simple as here but also not too complex as in that second example of yours. That much complexity fits for that game but probably would be too much for the current one since part of the cool thing with theirs is that you can create things that will alter the actual game world...housing for one, but that cannot fit well in the new game.
But yes, that previous glowsword game had a lot of things i wish more mmos have.
[edit: Or actually, might be inaccurate to just put it all on developers...i should say, i wish more people would be into those things that the previous glowsword mmo had so more games today would have it.]
* Oh, and just fyi, my knowledge of that first game's crafting is several years old. I don't know if it's still that way. -
Quote:NERD...Ack! Sorry, reflex....and also a jokeOriginally Posted by BellaStrega
"Cortosis weave."
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Quote:I know, i know, i might be weird (i should put that as my sig) but although i probably won't mind them using the sword deflection/blocking animation happen more often as an ip means of illustrating prolonged battles instead of just a visual queue that your defense stat works, i don't mind as much the armor they wear.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Instead of armor, they could have more strongly leveraged stances. But then that would create potential issues for the crafting system, although I think those were resolvable also. If anything, the crafting system should be the place where the conceptual glitches occur, because everyone knows that the crafting system in most MMOs is metagaming anyway.
To be honest, I think crafting in *this* game should have probably been made much simpler, and much more metagaming rather than trying so hard to make it "real." Its not like any of us thinks we're actually walking around with all that stuff crammed into our pockets.
Probably need to explain that a bit.
In a blue side class quest, it shows you assembling your glowsword which clearly shows me that it's technology based. And being several thousand years before the movie timeline where this is common tech, especially being weapon technology, it's not too far-fetch to reason that there would also be tech to counter it.
For the crafting...yes, their crafting could've been made more mini-game like, such as in that sequel to that 13yr old fantasy mmo. That one really felt like you're making something. You don't just stand by a table, for one there are different types depending on the craft and animates as you craft, but it also brings up a mini-game interface you interact in real time as you craft.
But even without that in the glowsword game, i still find myself engaged in that activity. Unlike with CoX's crafting, if you can really call it that...i don't feel engrossed in it at all. Maybe it's too simple for my taste, but if one of the few non-combat things you can do in this game isn't that engaging, then that brings me back to focusing on combat. And that can help highlight the repetitive nature of these games.
I need breaks in the routine to distract or minimize the repetition. And although beneficial for a casual experience, is also detrimental the longer you play (not just per session but through your overall time spent in the game.
In the past several years here, my experience have devolved to get mish, go to door and wipe out mobs/click glowie...repeat. And i have settled to that routine somewhere along the line and can't seem to break it with the other things in-game that i tried. -
Quote:I realize that and i still say it's about the game as a whole.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Keep in mind we are not talking about a COH from issue 0 launching back in the early 2000s when there are that many other mmos. We're talking about in this current market. COH from issue 0 was lacking many things that modern mmos have out of the gate now. That is no inventions, no end game/incarnate content, no newspaper missions, no villain class, a lack of of many zones, lack of pvp, bases, etc, etc.
CoH issue 0 may have many missing features, but it also didn't have as large a debt in developing it without those features. So it might still be viable if it gets enough people to like what it does have which other games don't.
[edit] Also, if CoX launched today and NCSoft's publishing director goes through with his statement in GDC, CoX would be designed as F2P from the start so that would also have an influence in its viability.
Though it could possibly get more people though if it had those features. So it's a good thing for the other game that it does for the big ones. People may differ on how well it was implemented but again, need hindsight to see the full impact of their decisions. And the rest, as in all mmos, can be added later.
If you had a large initial cost and missing those features, then yes probably you won't get as many customers to buy in long enough for you to pay back that debt. But that might not be much of a problem over there if what they've been saying at their investore calls holds up which from recent news may do that. -
Quote:Not sure there's a way to determine that, though CoX still does fill a void with its robust character customizations so it might still find its niche. As i said, it might come down to what the game as a whole have. That other game, though many features is similar to other mmos, has something the others don't.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
True. But it's been said that if COH launched now as it was back in issue 0 it wouldn't last 6 months before it was shut down.
And i must say, it's one thing to read text about your dastardly deeds...it's another to hear your enemies scream as you watch them get ejected into space when you chose to open the airlock.
Scary how much i enjoy that though. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
In my mind there are just some things you need to get right out the game, especially in a market where potential players have literally now hundreds of other mmos they can play.
The market is not that great for a new mmo starting out. So basic things that want to make folks want to keep player and not get frustrated are things that mmo developers need to be cognizant of. I'd say those type of things need to come FIRST before other bells and whistles.
Everyone's mileage may vary.
Unfortunately that is the sad truth in the current mmospace. Actually even single player games really can be affected by that state of mind.
But it is debatable as to what is core and what is QoL. But even if it is missing some core features, it could still come down to the whole game or the playerbase as a whole to see if it's a game breaker or not.
I don't know the percentage of players on either side, i just know that the missing ones did not sour the game for me.
But as you say...mileage may vary. Just have to use hindsight in these cases. But for contrast...when CoH launched without pvp, market, loot team/player search and the like which other mmos had at the time, it too was considered missing features. But that didn't matter to me since i liked what the game did have. -
Quote:Heh, that's why i said it makes sense in this game for quick travel...though at one point before they "encouraged" door missions, the persistent zones were more relevant. But that hasn't really been the case in a very long time. Which i guess supports my point...that if you add quick travel, the persistent zones that were once useful, now becomes a burden.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
For some games sure. For COX, exactly what is in the zone that really contributes to game play? It's not as if the spawns are all unique, they are mostly cookie cutter of each other.
Like i also said in that post you quoted. It depends on how the rest of the game is. It's not a straighforward "it takes x minutes too many so it must be bad" situation.
The communication i did agree with you and i they may have something in the next patch...but not sure...i couldn't place full attention at the summit stream since i was at work and they didn't show everything in it anyway.
[EDIT] I have to say so my stance is better understood. I know what happens when the persistent zones become less useful because my feelings for them in this game has changed. I used to like traveling in the very beginning. That's why (and partially because there was no player search function) most of my early alts have flight. It gave me a sense of "patrolling" the streets when i flew above looking for people fighting and then go down to ask if i could join.
But after the door mission encouragement initiative, i have grown to view the persistent zones as an impedance to my fun (door xp)
I guess it helps that CoH at launch was a very different experience, not just in the actual game but in how people were treating the game. -
Quote:Maybe this is one of those "depends on the person" situation but i am not seeing the enormous burden of meeting up with teammates in that game.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
See I don't see being able to easily meet up with your team mates as bells and whistles. I see that as a BASIC for MODERN any mmo.
When i wind down from a game session, i have a habit of teleporting to the fleet (for personal reasons since i have crafting alts parked there) so that's always been my starting point which means the next game session i have to travel to meet up or continue where i last left off if soloing and so far i haven't had too much difficulty with that.
I can quick travel teleport if i unlocked the appropriate portal and the speeder helps the rest of the way. Avoiding aggro is a bit more of a challenge only because on some spots there are just too many close together and no alternative routes, though unless it's a cave, that situation is few once you learn the map layout.
Aggroing melee mobs is not much of a problem in a speeder since you have to get damaged before it detoggles. The ranged mobs are tricky to break line of sight before they fire but i've done that enough times to know it's possible. And even without a speeder or it detoggled, if you have enough room to run and can survive long enough, it's still possible to outrun them till you break aggro and they run back, but that is more challenging.
While learning aggro avoidance i did notice something about how they handle aggro over there but haven't fully tested it. Unlike here, very grey mobs over there does still aggro but their aggro range decreases depending on the level disparity between you and the mob (or zone...not sure.) If the mob is lower than you...you have more leeway to avoid them and if they are very low from you, you'll have to practically bump into them before they aggro. The reverse seems to be true...if you are very low compared to the mob/zone, they'll see you from a mile away. So with those in mind, i take appropriate actions.
Is travel in CoX faster than other mmos? Yes in many cases. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad...just depends on how the rest of the game is. I mentioned before, there are things you can do while waiting (crew skills) or even while traveling...i've done that while autorunning on speeder many times.
With the following sentiment i may be in the minority among the CoX players but having fast travel does have a negative side. I've mentioned upthread that the persistent zones that the devs have put lots of work on eventually becomes a burden, a hurdle to avoid.
I guess it makes sense to have quick travel here because there's not much else to distract you from traveling.
I would agree on better communication but i think that's being worked on right now or can be added at some point..have to rewatch that summit video to verify. -
Quote:That sadly seems to be true, though in fairness, the cost does ramp up a lot when you add "mmo" to that "rpg".Originally Posted by Daemodand
However, more and more I've found that MMORPGs sacrifice too much to accommodate those massively multiplayers. I look at what can be done with single player RPGs, and MMORPGs do not compare favorably at all. The MMORPG is very primitive by comparison.
But i see what you mean. This could be considered ironic but ever since my first mmo, i've been looking for games that recaptures that magic of feeling very immersed into another world. I got lucky with that my second mmo had an immersive world as well, but that got "shot in the foot with a bazooka."
And ever since, i've been looking for another game that i can get that feeling again but so far all mmos i've tried, even CoX and that new one (though i like both in their own way) doesn't quite make me feel as immersed as that first mmo that was made 13 years ago.
I did find that feeling again, not in an mmo but with single-player console games. The post-apocalyptic one, the fantasy #4 and their new #5...even the western and detective one though those aren't really rpgs.
If the devs that made those fantasy #4 and 5 rpg comes up with a similarly immersive game but with customizable superheroes, i would be all over that game. -
Quote:Heh, not sure how much that shot helped their foot...but it is worth noting their reason for loading that bazooka in the first place. But that's a whole other discussion.Originally Posted by rsclark
They shot themselves in the foot with a bazooka. Nothing will help you recover from that.
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Quote:Not really a coincidence that returning players say that, though i think it's a bit of a biased sample, but not unbelievable since CoX does have unique qualities. In contrast, i see many comments in various places where it touts the merits and unique qualities of the now defunct glowsword mmo. But that didn't quite help their overall population.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't think its a coincidence that many returning players don't necessarily say that every other MMO they've played since leaving was bad and now they realize this game is the best: rather the most common statement I've personally heard was that this game is a nice refuge from other MMOs. I don't hear people say that about other MMOs in general. And its an odd statement to make in general, although I think its actually saying something particularly interesting about City of Heroes.
It's just a matter of magnitude, i suppose. Can't really know the number of player turnovers. Though it would be interesting to see numbers on how many and/or how long returnees stay.
But as much as some might scoff at the seemingly familiar qualities of all those other mmos, it is curious that those other games seem to have a lot more market share of the overall mmo gaming public.
And it's not just with a certain direct superheroic competitor, all mmos can potentially compete for each other's customers. Especially with F2P allowing people to jump games as they wish and occassionally sprinkling money around. -
Quote:It's not unheard of to bring back an item if it might sell at a later date. Disney vault tactic springs to mind. And it's not like they need to retool for manufacturing virtual items.Originally Posted by GlassGoblin
That makes some sense for a normal item, like the doggie pet. But unless they're planning to put it on clearance next Tuesday with all the other shamrock fluff in retail stores I don't see it happening. It's only available for two weeks.
But eh, just throwing out guesses heh...not really sure what their thinking process is. -
Quote:The part you quoted wasn't really from a business logic stance...more like from a customer voting with their money but still support the game...stance.Originally Posted by Winterminal
I really hope that is not their mentality. That's poor business logic if ever I heard it.
But i suppose from a business standpoint, pricing it really high then later release it at 25% off would still get you profit and some goodwill because it's a sale and probably hype up demand for it. -
Maybe they're in a revenue contest with another NCSoft F2P converted game to see which one has the better business model?
GDC excerpt from NCSoft publishing director Steve Levy
Quote:ACK! I forgot i had my tinfoil hat on this morning. Sorry let me take it off."I wish we'd developed all of these as F2P from the beginning," Levy said. "If we could go back and develop City of Heroes as F2P seven years ago, it would be a totally different game." It also would have avoided many of the costly challenges inherent in the game's recent business model conversion.
"We're all learning, right, we're all testing how this works," he continued. And that's why NCsoft took a totally different approach with its next F2P conversion. Lineage II, unlike CoH, lacks VIP or subscription options of any kind and instead opts to sell convenience items and cosmetic gear to everyone. "In a year," Levy says, "we'll look and see which model performed better. We simply don't know yet because we haven't collected enough data."
Hmm, now that it's off, that other poster who mentioned their pricing could be based on how they priced previous vanity pets and upped the anty a bit because of the leprechaun's function seems reasonable.
Maybe the take-away is if you want to support the game but don't want to support a $10 vanity pet...buy something else like a server slot maybe? -
Quote:There is that feeling that if you play according to how you envision a glowsword wielder (from movies i assume) that certain class choices doesn't quite fit that image.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Its extreme, but there is a kernel of truth in it I can't ignore: I find that trying to play Jedi as my mind's eye thinks of Jedi is almost the worst possible thing I can do. My counselor plays far better almost never touching her lightsaber, and leveraging companions tends to be just as important as whatever you're doing. I find when I stop thinking of it as a genre game and start thinking about it as a generic MMO, my performance gets a lot better.
I say this having also experienced that.
Not sure what advanced class you picked but if it's what i'm thinking then yes, there's a consular advanced class that you have to rely less on your physical weapon to be more effective. Which doesn't have an analog in the reference material i've seen.
But on the other hand, if you picked a certain single glowsword tank class, it very much plays into those references where it's mostly sword dependent with only the occasional use of powers. And one of that class' companions is also a robe wearing sword dependent character. If you're soloing with that class, your robed companion by your side feels like your apprentice of sorts, which also matches my images of the source material.
I suppose that's where the mmo part comes in since they wanted to diversify their class distinctions but it's not too far-fetched to rationalize there being a time when their kind was more abundant that there could be an order dedicated to honing the power side of their craft.
But i had an opposite reaction than yours in regards to CoX with one of my oldest main characters. I made an inv/ss tank that was an homage to a certain "S"omeone and i found it hard to rationalize that i could take on a whole army unscathed, but when i'm down to a single boss i kept getting hurt a lot.
I know it's just how the set was designed but still that drew me out of the illusion and onto game mechanics. Although this was when the game was new and pre-ED so when i say i took on an army (wink). It's a little better now with what i know though but still...every game has moments of rationalizing lore if you want to continue. Even with CoX, although people basically didn't have a direct reference to its lore in their minds, they do have many analogies to specific powers with known superheroes in media.
[FYI: My homage wasn't too blatant to be generic'd. That alt still has the original name/costume and is almost 8 years old.]
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Quote:You forgot: No player search function, respec and i think exemplaring among others.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
When City of Heroes first came out, it had no loot, it had no raids, it didn't have dozens of currencies and so forth. And many of us were here because of it. Because we didn't want a game that's about these things. Because we didn't want the one and only one type of other MMO on the market.
But seriously, I wouldn't necessarily say "we" wanted CoH because it didn't have those mmo "basics". For me, what got me into CoH at its launch (actually beta already sold me) was mostly because i liked making character concepts and the superhero genre. Not to mention that promo video was pretty exciting...they should do more of those cgi videos.
I didn't really take into account the lack of pvp/loot/market. Probably because i came from previous mmos that had those and i didn't have a problem with them since they were not that intrusive to my experience.
In that 13yr old fantasy mmo, pvp was by consent or relegated to a separate server altogether and the market wasn't a mini-game...it was just there, you had goods to sell, you posted it with a specific price.
I don't really judge games based on bullet points on a feature list. Games are supposed to entertain me in whatever form they use based on the overall experience of the game as a whole.
If i were to play only games that had specific features that my previous game had, i wouldn't have moved to CoH to begin with. I mean my baseline mmo had level grind, pvp, market, loot, crafting and lots of traveling. My second mmo didn't really have levels (older glow sword mmo) and combat wasn't the only thing to do and you can build houses among other things. Then we get CoH without many of those previous features i've grown accustomed to seeing.
Maybe i'm different or i'm too old-school hehe. But i go strictly by how i feel more than what i can or can't do. Not to say features don't matter, they do but not necessarily "specific" features if the game as a whole is entertaining enough. The other "missing" fuctions, i could rationalize as QoL additions. -
Quote:I don't know about those people being wrong. But it's debatable to say there isn't enough reason to team. If you only look at intent, you'll see there are reasons to team. If you attempt their group content solo "at the intended level" most will likely need other player's help.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Are all of the people now saying that teaming seems to suck in that game all wrong? Doesn't matter to me. What does matter to me is what people are saying would be the right way to fix it, of the people who do think its broken. And a sizeable chunk of those people are saying that the problem with teaming isn't that the barriers are too high, its that there aren't enough tasks which mandate crossing those barriers.
The big difference i think comes from the fact that you have the option to not have to do that group content at the intended level. Barring level cap group content of course.
You can choose to solo those group content...but for many, they'll probably have to outlevel it first if they intend to succeed. If they do that, then yes, there's not much incentive to group for it...except you won't maximize your rewards and possibly even render the end gear loot meaningless because you might have already gotten something better by that time.
However, that can be taken as an opportunity to experience that content/story by yourself if you choose to forgo maximizing the rewards (xp,cred,gear).
I can't say the same with CoX. Because i'm not into large groups, i miss out on the tf/sf/trial content this game offers. But i can experience the equivalent content (mostly) in that other game.
I think that's where the disconnect is. Maybe some of those people are not seeing it that way. I know i am still seeing numerous requests for teams on those content over there so...*shrug*
I would probably pick a different example other than that blog writer linked in the op for a dissenting opinion about their group content. His biggest gripe is that the pvp zones and group content is disconnected from the rest of the game and that there's no consequence for skipping them.
I can say the same thing about CoX's pvp zones and group content. I've taken many alts from 1-50 without ever touching group content here. -
Quote:That's an interesting viewpoint.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Its that the game didn't take the precaution of forcing you to team, throughout the game.
Usually forced teaming generates resentment from the CoX forum. I remember some hot debates when taskforces was needed to slot the alpha incarnate slot and when trials was for a time (think still is) the only reasonable way to progress on the rest of the incarnate system. That's not including some requests to do taskforces without requiring a team of 6-8 to, not necessarily to finish, but to just start it.
Being unique has its perks but can also lead to being niche and thereby not getting enough paying customers. A certain previous glow sword mmo was also unique and apparently too unique for many potential mmo players' taste.
I might just be odd but i actually prefer the other game's way of having teamed content where the game itself doesn't prevent you from taking part. It might prevent you from succeeding if you solo it at the intended level but it doesn't actually say "nope, sorry you need x number of people or we won't let you try." And having a max team of 4 means most content is balanced for a number of teammates that theoretically won't take as long to fill as say requiring a team of 8. Especially when npc companions can be used to fill in for some of that team spots if needed.
As for traveling...that too has pros and cons. The pros is obvious, it saves time...but a con is that if taken to a certain point, the persistent world becomes almost irrelevant that it could be viewed as an imposition that you have to travel through it at all no matter how quickly. I've seen some people still complain how some missions make you "waste" a few minutes traveling to a different zone to get to the door.
It makes me wonder if the mission teleporter temp power had an instant recharge that that most players here would be activating that instead of their travel power most of the time.
My first mmo was that fantasy one 13 years ago i actually liked that travel was a big deal, it felt immersive for that genre i mean watch any fantasy show/movie and you often have characters traveling distances. But even though i didn't mind the travelling much, what i did mind was times where i had to wait with nothing else to do. Anyone who played that game and "missed the boat" knows this.
Which is interesting to me that the new glow sword mmo actually gives me something to do while i'm on autorun or waiting for team or a friend to join me...their skill system.
Maybe that's why traveling in CoX seems more laborious and have to be mitigated by various game/temp power shortcuts. The world is not that compelling especially if you've been exposed to it for a long time and there's not much to do during. -
Quote:Server load indicator behavior also seemed to have been changed in issue 18. Back in 2009 i used to see servers go from green to yellow around 1400ish unhidden players and yellow to red around 2800.Originally Posted by Texas Justice
For example, if you are comparing the approximate number of people represented by 2 dots with the current server capacity to the approximate number of people represented by 2 dots with the 2009 (random year) server capacity, then you are making an incorrect interpretation.
After i18 (aug 2010) i observed it was going from green to yellow around 250ish and yellow to red around 1000.
Should still be that way give or take a hundred or so...varying a bit depending on the server. -
Quote:People have always wanted what they want in terms of reward payouts whatever the currency. I'm thinking this treads on the "buff vs nerf" method of setting expectations. Many would agree that starting low then ratcheting up is better than being lowered after getting used to the high.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That doesn't mean I think the people who want it faster or think its too fast are wrong. It just means I think there's no objective foundation to decide either way: its just a case of people wanting what they want.
If this solo path were introduced after the shard path with the alpha slot but before itrials, would this solo path still be considered unreasonable?
I don't know much about this but from what i've been hearing, it seems like a decent upgrade....from the shard path, but not after you've gotten used to the itrial reward rates.
Players' reward expectations was set back at alpha slot launch, but then the devs blew that expectation out of the water with the itrial rewards rate and funneled everyone through it long enough to get used to that "high". And now they are trying to ratchet that expectation back down.
I think you'll get a similar reaction among trial-goers if you cut the itrial payout rate to somewhere near this team-optional rate.
It's like someone is leveling the normal way, then gets into the original AE farms that got you a 50 in a few hours and do that long enough to get used to that rate, then have to go back to leveling the normal way.
It's possible it might be too late to reset that expectation but will have to see how people treat this alternative. -
Quote:I guess it's different for different people on how to view entertainment. To me that sounded like "why watch a movie when you can just read the script?"Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Not to mention that even if the voice acting is in your native language, one can read the text much faster than it is spoken, making listening to throw-away dialogue from side-questers a chore.
For me i'm finding that i treat games (many console rpgs not just a certain mmo) with those dialogue elements as part of the entertainment rather than something that blocks you from it. I so far haven't skipped any cutscenes even ones that have no gameplay impact such as going into/out of a ship let's say, because it breaks the eventual monotony of button mashing and seeing numbers (xp, inf, gold etc) go up and seem to add to the immersion a tad.
In CoX, i don't think i've ever intently read text beyond seeing what i need to complete the mission. I feel that's bad for me because if the story is not grabbing me, then that leaves the immersion of the game environment and the gameplay. And in this game, the game environment is not that compelling and gives the feeling that it's inconsequential and merely an impedance to my xp.
The gameplay, or specifically the variations on the gameplay by having different character options is the main thing that held me but eventually if you play long enough, it gets fairly blurred together. I've noticed almost any AT i chose to play, i end up doing the same things or at least it felt that way. -
Thank you. Will have to go through my credit statements that month since i don't remember paying twice for GR. Maybe i cancelled the preorder before launch or something.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
1) MANY of the sales of the game weren't box- they were digital preorders directly from the NCSoft store. Even if I paid the preorder back in May, legally you can't usually report it until its the revenue is fully realized (the item ordered is supplied to the client). That means that all the $$ gained by offering the pistols and demon summoning sets early to those that preorder probably wasn't realized until the quarter that the game shipped.
Don't suppose there's a number to that "many", just so i can add to my notes.
Just to add an anecdote to that...having early access to those sets doesn't necessarily mean the GR code wasn't from a third party purchase. My memory is fuzzy on specifics but i do remember having early access to those but i don't remember paying money for it. Dang fuzzy memory. Anyone know if there was a deposit of some kind to get that early access?
I do know i bought my box from bestbuy.com. They had a launch day promo of $10 off if purchased online (i set it as a store pickup on launch day) -
Quote:I wasn't really talking about profitability for precisely that reason. We don't know what their cost is now. The only cost number i know of was $18mil/yr but that was back in 2004.Originally Posted by SwellGuy
But revenue is only half of the equation for determining profit. As long as they feel they make enough profit the game will be fine.
GR required putting boxes on shelves. Putting new boxes on shelves is going to constantly cost. Freedom required them to create the Paragon Market mechanics which once created they can use for all kinds of products.
Also a box on the shelf might cost us $40 but how much of that did NCSoft get? I would think less than 50% of it. Barring some weird deal they get 100% of what we buy in the Paragon Market (less the credit card transaction fees).
In any case, profit comes from revenue...if revenue has decreased, then either profit has also decreased or more of their budget will be cut. Either way, decreasing revenue is not a good thing.
And sure, there are marketing costs for putting a box on store shelves, but there's also extra infrastructure (and other) costs when gearing up for the F2P crowd.
Yes, revenue from box sales is shared...but doesn't that say something that even though $30 for a box gets NCSoft less money than a $30 Freedom store purchase (assuming using points that are purchased apart from the stipend) and yet the quarter with 1 box release gained higher returns for a similar 3 month period.
EDIT: * Also assuming most of the GR sales is from physical stores and not bought from the previous NCSoft online store which sales is not shared with other companies.
CoX notes for 4Q 2011 (mostly...and a bit from Freedom's headstart at the last days of 3Q 2011)
Code:9/13/11 CoH F2P headstart and issue 21 9/13/11 Store Add: barbarian costume pack (400pt), rocket board power (600), beam rifle powerset (800 - 20% sale 640), school backpack (80) 9/19/11 Store Sale: npc spectral pirate costume power 600 pt (item removed after sale ends) till 9/21 (3 days) 9/20/11 Store Add: sig storyarc (400), volcanic aura (80) Store Sale: revival temp 50% off (113), unslotter 5pk 50% off (225), xp boost temp (450) 9/27/11 Store Add: cot costume set (400) 9/27/11 CoH F2P Live to all 10/4/11 Store Add: street justice powerset (800), revival temp (225) Store Sale: xp booster 25% (225), costume unlock 25% (600) 10/11/11 Store Add: Sig storyarc #2 (400), firefighter helmet pack [2 hats] (80) Store Sale: unslotter 5pk 25% off (338), respec 25% off (600) 10/18/11 Store Add: halloween costume pack (400) will be removed from store on 11/18/11 (32 days) 10/25/11 Store Add: volcanic aura (80), costume temp (400 ea) rikti mentalist,ppd hardsuit,carnival harlequin items removed 12/6 (50 days) 11/1/11 Store Add: undead survival kit (400) [include:stlouis hammer,holy shotgun shell,warwolf whistle,revival,precise dual insp] 11/8/11 Store Add: SSA3 (400), autumn path aura (120) Store Sale: time manip powerset (400), pulverizing enh set (186), touch of death enh set (400), makos bite enh set (450) enh sets removed from store after 11/14/11 (7 days) 11/15/11 Store Add: german sheppard pet (500) Store Sale: costume power (480 ea) rikti mentalist,ppd hardsuit,carnival harlequin end 12/6…autumn path aura (80), halloween costume pack (400) end 11/18 11/21/11 Loyalty program promo from 12/1/11 ending 3/31/12..get items: badge,helmets,chest emblem,aura,costume change emote 11/22/11 Store Add: black Friday only - IO sets basilisk gaze lv10-30 (400) 1070, kinetic combat lv20-35 (400) 775, luck of the gambler lv25-50 (400) 1125 (black Friday extended to 12/1) Store Sale: Black Friday - 11/25 -12/1 50%-80% off…vip starter $0.99… xp boost 1chrg (30) 120 pp orig, 3 chrg (75) 300p, 5 chrg (113) 450p…windfall 1chrg (30) 120, 3 chrg (75) 300, 5 chrg (113) 450… Store Sale: Black Friday cont: invention lic (80) 160… char xfer (200) 800…respec (400) 800... large insp (50) 300-600 orig price...martial arts booster (400) ends 12/1 REMOVED: numina convalescence lv30-50 (400) 1170 orig price, 11/28/11 subscription promo 6mo/12mo 1 or 2 free months…11/28/11 ending 12/31/11 11/29/11 Store Add: Gunslinger costume pack (400) Store Sale: dual pistol powerset (600) 12/6/11 Store Add: titan weapons powerset (800)….titan weapons pack#1 free till 12/19 w/ purchase [includes atomic smasher,demonic axe,plasma sword,purgatory sword models] weapon pack#1 removed 12/19 (14 days) **pack could be bought for 0 pp w/o powerset ** Store Add: signature story arc #4 (400) Store Sale: character slots x5 25% off (1200) orig 1600, xp booster temp 25% off (338) orig 450 12/13/11 Store Add: mini-snowbeast temp (160) removed on 1/31/12 (50 days), sig story arc# 4 (400) Store Sale: all rare IO enh 50% off…numina convalescence (400) orig 968, eradication (428) 856, obliteration (428) 856 12/20/11 Store Add: winter holiday pack (400) [includes: 11pc costume,naughty/nice aura,snowball temp,gifting emote] till 1/31/12 (43 days) 12/27/11 Store Add: New Year's pack (160) [incl: firework aura,confetti cost change emote,3 fireworks emotes Store Sale: windfall temp x5 50% off (225), super tailor 25% (600)