Pax__

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Excellent post, sir! ^_^ Here ... have a cookie, you earnd it! ^_^

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I think the point was that it's much easier now to take down all the Henchman, leaving the MM WITHOUT Bodyguard to take the full damage from the next attack.

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Anyone who could do that could have one or two shotted the MM without the bodyguard feature anyway.

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So the net result of this change is...?

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The result of the change is that moderate AoE that wouldn't kill the MM or his pets just became killer to the MM pets.

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Only if they're in Bodyguard. Facing someone with AoE? turn off the def/fol Bodyguard bit. Facing a single-target, heavy-hitting opponent ...? Dime for the Defensive Six Pets thing to strut it's stuff ...!

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MM, say goodbye to all your pets from one fireball.

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Any fireball able to do that much damage to the pets, even with the MM's share shunted to them, would have killed the MM anyway.

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The pets take the AoE from the fireball AND they take the bodygaurd damage.

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Leaving the MM alive and on his feet, screaming "AAAAAAAAAAAH! RUN THE **** AWAY!!!!!". Instead of laying facedown on teh pavement, muttering "goddammit, back to the ****ing hospital. AGAIN. argh."

Which, by the by, is the whole POINT of Bodyguard. Even just ONE expendible Tier 1 in Bodyguard stance is 1/3 less damage to the MM himself!!

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I will really not want to see my MM get hit by AIM + BU + Fireball or Fire Breath with my Henchman in Bodyguard mode.

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Oklay, so the henchmen die - but, you live, and can run away.

WITHOUT Bodyguard, you die ... and your henchmen drop dead immediately, too.

IOW, WITHOUT bodyguard, everyone dies. With bodyguard, YOU LIVE TO RUN AWAY.

Think about it. Anything strong enough to one-shot your pets through the Bodyguard linkage, would have one-shotted you at least ten times over.

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And, for the record, I like this new addition. It's situational, it make you think, it turns the MMs into that much more of chess player. Although it just means that Necro/Dark will probably no longer have ANY competition as the "best MM PvP build".

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I suspect not, for one reason: a Merc/, Thug/, or Robot/ mastermind will be better able to have their bodyguards return fire against anyone not closing to melee distance. Yes, Necro/ will certainly have an edge versus Ninja/, and /Dark will have a greater edge in healing. But I think ...

Well; I have a Robo/FF mastermind, still only level 24 for now. Once he hits L26 ... if and when I expect to take aggro on a personal level (i.e., an Ambush), the Protectors stay in Defensive/Follow mode pretty much 24/7, while the Assault and three Drones do the offensive "thing". My Prot-bots will return fire on anything that actually shoots ME, while reducing the damage I take by a net of 50%, via Bodyguard. Everything else can concentrate their not-inconsequential amount of firepower on whatever I want to kill fastest.

Mind you; that mastermind is built to avoid aggro like the friggin' plague ... and I still applaud Bodyguard. Against an EB or AV (nerfed to EB or not), I put them ALL on Def/Fol ... and lay down the Force-Bolt Smackdown, sucking up aggro as best I can ... a total reversal of my usual tactics, and an option only made possible by the advent of "Bodyguard".

LaserJudas posted:
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I don't like this. Here's why: I have my Medic set to Defensive/Follow, so that he doesn't run about blasting everything with his subar damage. Instead, he heals. Now, he's going to be taking a beating instead of giving a healing.

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Okay. So a 60 point hit comes in. Before, it owuld be you taking 60 points. NOW, instead, it's you taking 40 and him taking 20. What's the problem?



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The problem, Pax, is that my Medic ALSO takes his own damage, and does not heal himself. Nor, quite frankly, does he heal anything else all that well, either.

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I'm wondering what you're doing to draw so much aggro, to be perfectly frank. And why your Medic, who's in Defensive stance already, would pull his own aggro. I believe masterminds do best when they do NOT generate any aggro that could be avoided; since you cited that you're /FF ... unless you've got Force Bubble up, then outside of an Ambush ... you really shouldn't be DRAWING aggro. Period.

I know my /FF doesn't.

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This is interesting. I'm having crazy images of MM's using Provoke.

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For me ... it just means I can keep my pets in "follow, Defensive" when I use TP Foe to pull mobs one-by-one into my quick-death crossfire. Sure, sure, I'll take a wee bit of damage each time. But, it'll be a WEE bit of damage. ^_^

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On the other hand, if I set my level 1 minions to Follow Defensive, and only send Attack Aggressive commands to the level 2 and 3 minions (can I do that with a single macro button without playing games with their names, will the $$ separator work?)

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Yes. You can set a button that says "petcom_pow protector att agg$$petcom_pow assault att agg " (obviously using the names for robots, you can replace them with any power names) and only the Tier 2 and 3 pets will attack, the Tier 1s will stay in whatever mode you last ordered them to be in.

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You can even edit the existing Macros. Take that "Target circle" macro, and edit it to add $$petcom_pow Protector Follow Defensive, or the like.

That way, they all go to attack your target, and THEN (instantly) your Protectors are put in Defensive/Bodyguard mode.

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I don't like this. Here's why: I have my Medic set to Defensive/Follow, so that he doesn't run about blasting everything with his subar damage. Instead, he heals. Now, he's going to be taking a beating instead of giving a healing.

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Okay. So a 60 point hit comes in. Before, it owuld be you taking 60 points. NOW, instead, it's you taking 40 and him taking 20. What's the problem?

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I dislike the way this works, especially for the melee MMs like Ninja, this means to use my abilities I have to be hit first, and it PvP with low MM HP, even 75% resists won't cut it.

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Here's an idea: if you don't need it, you don't need it ... and you only need it if you're going to get hit in the first place.

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What does passive mode get us anyway?

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Defenseive. Not passive.

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Wait! Doom! How do I set one pet to defensive follow with a keybind! :-P

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In your Keybind file, instead of (perhaps):

lctrl+lbutton petcom_all goto aggressive

... you would have:

lctrl+lbutton petcom_all goto aggressive$$petcom_name Bob follow defensive

^_^

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So basicly what you are saying is, that if we don't do anything and just stand there, we will be protected. If we actually try and fight, we will be cut down, in pvp just as easy as we already are...

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Nope.

You know those "useless" Tier 1 minions, later in your career? The ones a lot fo people advocate not bothering to summon ...? Set them to "Def/Follow", and you take only 40% damage - the rest is shared out to THEM.

My Robotics MM will probably stick the protectors in Defense/Follow mode ... at least occasionally. More often, once I get my assault 'bot. They should still Heal and Buff while in defensive stance, and their offense won't be as critical. They might still summon their Seekers, too ... have to wait and see on that one.

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In CoH, we don't have these paradoxes, at least not as far as I've seen. The one confiremd time traveller on the heroes side, Holsten Armitage is able to change the future, by having you save a senator who would have otherwise been killed and this started a war that ended up not happening. We don't treat time with an eye for paradoxes, we treat it with an eye for continuity, and that seems to be broken here.

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Yep. Sound of Thunder.

Trust me - the critters affected by that butterfly's death didn't know any better. The people in teh FUTURE didn't know, either - the guy responsible only knew because, well, while things were changing, he was not a part of the timestream.

It's something often called "the observer effect".

Indeed, Holsten Armitage SAYS that the Senator was supposed to die, but what if the truth was, he KNEW you had saved said Senator, but figured out the only way to get you involved and in the right place, at the right time, with the right knowledge ... was to say he needed your help changing that future?

^_^ Time-travel, if it even is possible at all, is migraine-inducing. If a time-travel scenario isn't headache-inducing ... then trust me, you've got it wrong, and/or haven't thought of something important. ^_^

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PLOT HOLE

And this is where things take a turn for the weird. I find a visibly old, white-haired, mad scientist looking man. He's identified as a younger version of Professor Echo. Excuse me!?! This obviously much older man is a younger version of a significantly younger man? And he reminds me of Dr. Aeon? Fair enough. But is that an older or younger Dr. Aeon? I haven't seen the guy in person.

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Dude. Time travel. And ... have you ever read T.H. White's The Sword in the Stone ...? In it, Merlin is described as aging backwards - he gets younger as everyone else gets older, and vice versa. Thus, a to-chronological-time "younger" Aeon might indeed be physiologically more aged than his "later" incarnation.

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If that weren't bad enough, my souvenir explains that I saw an older Dr. Aeon. Come again? So, Professor Echo is an older version of his companion, who in turn is an older still version of Dr. Aeon, who, himself, is supposed to be pretty old to begin with? Wow, Echo looks good for his age. OR something is screwed up along the line.

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Possibly we're looking at a Temporal Paradox.

In all honesty, IMO if any encounter with recursive temporal displacement doesn't leave you scratching your head and thinking W, T, freakin' F?!?!? ... it wasn't properly handled.

Time Travel is nearly impossible without creating a paradox - it's how the timestream FIXES itself that creates the headaches and ocnfusion. For reference, go read A sound like Thunder; all of human history derailed in massive order, because one stinkin' butterfly was killed when it wasn't supposed to be.

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What the heck is War Witch doing alive, fighting in Grandville?

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.... testing the side-switching, maybe? ^_^

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View 1: A badge is a collector's item
Badges are simply tokens that are collected like stamps, coins, comic books, etc. Although you might have some interesting stories of what you had to go through to acquire them, the items themselves don't represent any specific activity. You collect them for the sake of adding them to your collection.

View 2: A badge is a trophy
Badges represent an event or activity like a medal or trophy. The experience of getting each badge is key to each badge's identity. Since the badge represents an experience, you can't really have alternate means of getting the same badge. A different experience results in a badge that represents something different, and thus results in a different badge.

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YES!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for expressing it that way - I don't know why that very comparison never occurred to me, but it didn't.

View #2 is where I'm at. And I believe that if ANY badge gets treated per #1, then ALL of them should be treated the same way - no half-measures!

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So why is it it seems that a lot of people feel like pre-I2 toons shouldn't get Isolator? That whole "Well if they can get Isolator, we should get the event badges". No you shouldn't get the event badges, by the time those badges came out there had to be some magazine ad you saw about CoH, you weren't playing then, that's your problem, not pre-I2 people.

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In response: when I2 came out, "you could have re-rolled your character right away and gotten Isolator. You had an entire month to level such re-rolled charactes up, before the first event even happened. Then you could have had every badge, with ZERO special treatment."

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You're kidding right? Ok, lets say for example, you had a pre-I2 toon that was lvl 45. I2 comes out, and a special event happens, you get the badge for it and then you found out there's a badge in the tutorial. Now you're gonna tell me and every one else that you're gonna throw away those months of leveling and play time and badges collected (and probably can't get back, the special event ones anyway) for one badge? No you're probably not, so that is not the best solution for this "problem" I guess you could call it.

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As I understand it, I2 was live for at least an entire month before the Halloween event happened.

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To you saying if I would go back and get Isolator if given the chance, yes I would, being I didn't know about it and found out about it 3 weeks after I started playing, and I wasn't going to re-roll my toon just for that badge.

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A choice you made; the consequences of that choice are yours to live with, sorry.

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Remove the isolator badge.

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Agreed. If it'll stop this ridiculous arguement they can have mine back.

Take it completely out of the game. Problem solved.

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Down with the isolator badge! Nurf it in I7!

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... when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

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It is still elitism, and no matter the bending over backwards to avoid the question, suggesting that the devs go back and slip something to the Pre I2 toons implies that something is owed them!

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Bite me. I've been consistently OPPOSED to the very idea of awarding Isolator by ANY pos-tutorial means. Unlike you, however, I am willing - for the sake of argument - to entertain the thought of "well if it HAD to happen, is there a way that would upset me the LEAST?"

...

Reading comprehension. Get some.

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Oh, and if you're SMART about it

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...you get in an Isolator group and have the kills just rolling in at 8X your quick but still slow level-2 solo rate. And you can tell others about the badge at the same time, introducing them to more of the incredible rich content in the game.

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Group or no group, it's still faster if everyoen does their MISSIONS first, and thumps thugs at CLev2. Besides, I'm usually on after midnight, when server populations are woefully LOW. Grouping in the tutorial isn't always an option.

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Hey Pax. ^_^

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A regular mission opportunity as you describe does not limit the "go back and get it, after all" opportunity to Pre-I2 characters only; it throws the gates wide open for anyone to go and get it again.


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OooOoo, no, I think maybe there's a misunderstanding. What I'm saying is more along the lines of "Look, if we are going to at least put together a mission to make Isolator available again, then that mission should also double as usable content for everyone else." You don't get the badge for completing the mission; rather, it's a mission in which there just so happen to be a lot of Contaminated that you can use to get the badge.

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Which would allow anyone, not just pre-I2 characters, to get the badge through THAT mission. Therein lays my objection to "just throw some Contaminated into a mission or three" solutions.

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Well, I don't think it will be *quite* that cataclysmic. ^_^

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It would be to me. Right now, IMO, anyoen who has that badge candisplay that they have been persistent and determined, and done more than theminimum to complete theri missions and move on, from the very start, in the Tutorial. That's something special, IMO.


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It must be limited, solely and exclusively, wihtout exception, to those character who never had the opportunity to earn Isolator the "approved" way - meaning, those created before Issue 2;


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I'm not even sure if this is going to be feasible; basically it depends on being able to track the creation date of each character. Maybe that information is in the CoX databases; maybe not. Who are we to tell? But certainly, without it, this may be a bit of a non-starter.

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Well, here's my Occam's Razor: if it's not feasible to limit it to pre-I2 only, don't do it at all. Like I said, for me, those criteria are non-negotiable.

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It must require EFFORT to acquire - effort commensurate with the effort of killing 100 level-one Contaminated with (at best) a Security(1)/Combat(2)-levelled character;

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I don't know about the exact number; I think we were talking earlier about how some of the badge requirements are, well... just a bit high. But putting that aside, I do believe and agree that whatever effort goes into achieving the badge at second showing should be identical to the degree of effort required first time around.

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If the requirement is dropped, then of course, the effort required of pre-I@'s could and shold be dropped by a commensurate amount. But, I put that one in there because there were a few people that wERe saying "just give it to us, no mission/effort involved".

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It must be a one chance only, no re-attempts allowed scenario; once you leave the "do-over" mission or whatever, you must not be allowed to return (ideally, there would be a hospital IN the mission, of course);

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Hmm; I don't know. What if you get DCed? It's one thing to miss the bus because you couldn't be bothered to get to the stop early; it's another thing entirely when the bus drives off a bridge.

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Set it up as it'sown, only-entered-this-way ZONE. Thus, if you get DCed orhave to log off for whatever reason - when you log back on, there you are, still. But if you physically and MANUALLY leave the zone/area ... then, just like leaving the tutorial ... sucks to be you, there's no going back.


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And the last one, well ... because I'm willing to be a complete d*ck and protect the accomplishment of a coupleof my heroes, who DID start their careers on the described "high point"; I want the badge to CONTINUE to ascribe that very achievement to the badge-wearer.

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I admire your honesty. No, seriously. ^_^ This very much reminds me of the talk about the Zookeeper badge also; there are those that want the bar lowered, because it's too difficult to reach; and there are those that want it to stay exactly where it is, as a testement to their own ability. You can't have any kind of measure of excellence without a division between those that can and those that can't.

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In the case of that, I think they should have done it this way: change the EXISTING Zookeeper badges very slightly (rename it to "Original Zookeeper" maybe; tag a little gold star on the graphic; poof, done). That way, those who'd earned it "the old, harder way" woudl still be able to show off THEIR achievement, but the easier benchmark could still be implemented.


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Hmm, so... what would be the best solution outside of our own personal feelings of what we believe in and what would be the way we see as 'right'? What would be the best possible solution in terms of the customers, the game, and the Developers?

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The "Re-Isolator Task Force" idea above, I could go for (my expansion on another poster's idea, I mean). Everyone can get ONE badge from it - and the pre-I2's could get TWO badges - Re-Isolator and the original Isolator. The's the lesser of several evils - done the way I describe it, at least noone POST-I2 could get Isolator "after the fact".

Assuming, as you have pointed out, that "date of creation" is stored in the database on a per-character basis.

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Wow! I bow down before you uberl33tne55. Next time I think about joining a MMO, I'll be sure to PM you to find out all I can learn from you and avoid that game like the plague.

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Cut the ad hominems. They don't earn you any points.

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Oh, and while we're dissecting assumptions, I didn't plunk down dime one to start playing CoH. So the fact that I knew about Isolator before my free trial expired blows THAT argument out of the water.

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Nope, because it's still an ONLINE game. The ability to play inherently includes the ability to do some reading on the web. Heck, I'd look at your friend who GAVE you the free trial, and ask them "why didn't you tell me about Isolator?!?"

No go-back option for post-I2 characters who simply declined the opportunity; I've put the effort into getting Isolator during the tutorial, and don't want the value of that effort reduced in ANY way by, yes, lazy players who chose not to get the badge during the Tutorial, and/or who skipped the tutorial altogether. They made the choice, they get to live with the consequences.

Oh, and if you're SMART about it ... really, it's pretty easy to get Isolator: finish all the missions but DON'T talk to the last contact after rescuing Flower Knight; take your now combat-level-2 character back to the contaminated zone, and continue bashing thugs until you get your badge; with the +1 combat level, you'd be AMAZED how quickly you can rip through 'em ... plus, you've already gotten maybe 1/5 to 1/4 of the way there, just doing the MINIMUM for your other Tutorial missions.

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The third one is because ... as with a newbie in the Tutorial, if you leave without getting the badge, I want you to have missed the damned bus, once and for all and IRREVERSIBLY. The same as said newbie hero popping out to GC or AP.

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Wow, the "I was here from the beginning" elitism is just overwhelming.

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Funny you should say that, beause I wasn't here from teh beginning. I only started playing during the first week of September, 2005 - just after the release of I5, in fact.

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Perhaps some newbies that came along later didn't know of the existence of Isolator. Whereas, by playing before the badge existed, you were aware of its existence the second it went live.

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First, I wasn't here before the badge existed.

Second - it's a frerakin' ONLINE game. Anyone playing an online game has zero excuse for not doing some reading on the internet about an MMO they're thinking of joining, before putting their money on the line. In which case, you'd know badges existed, would probably at least have an INITIAL impression of wether you cared, and if you cared ... would be entirely able to find out about Isolator, long before making your first character.

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What I dislike is the assuption of "I was here from the beginning, therefore CoH OWES me the Isolator badge!" Poppycock!

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The funny thing is - that is my exact attitude. I don't think they're OWED anything - yet it's me you're levelling the "been here since the dawn of time elitism" accusation against?

Dude. Read a bit more of my posts, would you? Please?

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There's already a precedent.. "Privateer" badge. Sky Raider skiffs were added in response to player requests. The devs so far havent introduced any system to this game that punishes for any past effort. That some (in a lack of faith in Dev reasonableness) chose to reroll is entirely their own choice. It was not one forced on them.

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Wrong precedent.

Those player requests were made because the Sky Raider Skiffs didn't exist in sufficient numbers, anywhere, for that badge to be obtained by any means, EXCEPT through farming.

Isolator, OTOH ...? Outbreak has well more than 100 Contaminated, who respawn quickly enough that even a few of fourty or more new characters moving through the zone, couldn't POSSIBLE reach a span of mroe than ... say, five seconds, where there were no more Contaminated to fight, AND, one or more of them hadn't gotten the badge yet.

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I wouln't expect to be just GIVEN the badges, but you have to admit - if "you" (in the sweeping, generalist sense) get a special mission to go back and get Isolator, why shouldn't someone like "us" (also in the generalist sense) get a special mission that provides an opportunity for THOSE badges?

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That is indeed a case of 'missed the boat' Isolator is one of 'the boat's still in the harbor and passengers are still boarding'.

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... at the sign marked "new customers only" (with "customer" in this case meaning "character", of course).

I, at least, am willing to bend in on or both of these ways:
[*] the alternate-dimension, Villain/Hero Cooperative "Task Force" from Pocket-D, awarding a new TF/SF badge and offering meloads of new and interesting content ...
[*] award the pre-I2's with "Golden Age" instead of giving them a chance at Isolator.

Personally, the second of the two is the one that I'd prefer. Occam's Razor and all. And if badge count is what's important ... it solves THAT, too. As for "complete the set" - what that does is create MULTIPLE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE SET. You couldn't HAVE both "Golden Age Hero" and "Isolator" on the same character, except via certain rather unlikely and probably very RARE circumstances (a character made mid-august pre-I2, and left sitting in Outbreak until mid-September post-I2, is the only non-bugged way I can imagine).

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Remove the isolator badge.

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.... when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

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So why is it it seems that a lot of people feel like pre-I2 toons shouldn't get Isolator? That whole "Well if they can get Isolator, we should get the event badges". No you shouldn't get the event badges, by the time those badges came out there had to be some magazine ad you saw about CoH, you weren't playing then, that's your problem, not pre-I2 people.

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In response: when I2 came out, "you could have re-rolled your character right away and gotten Isolator. You had an entire month to level such re-rolled charactes up, before the first event even happened. Then you could have had every badge, with ZERO special treatment."

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That might sound mean, but it's the truth. Now if the devs want to put the Halloween badges back in there (for example) and you have to earn them like the others did then that's fine, but no one should be given the badge cause they weren't playing then.

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I wouln't expect to be just GIVEN the badges, but you have to admit - if "you" (in the sweeping, generalist sense) get a special mission to go back and get Isolator, why shouldn't someone like "us" (also in the generalist sense) get a special mission that provides an opportunity for THOSE badges?

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Even if they get the badge by not earning it I wouldn't have a problem with that. I'm not going back on what I said earlier about if you didn't earn it you shouldn't have it, for all we know the pre-I2 players with toons pre-I2 would have done what was needed to get the badge.

I say the devs should either just give them the badge or give them a chance to earn it, that would be the fair thing to do.

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I would prefer te status quo was maintained, BUT, the scenario I've agreed to above would be ... let's call it "the scenario that would offend me least". Mainly because, well ... at least I would get another badge and some new content out of it, too.

I'm sorry the Developers decided to put a badge solely in teh Tutorial, with no city-wide special event planned to let post-tutorial characters have a shot at the badge. I'm sorry the developers never thought to provide some OTHER means to acquire the badge, "way back when".

But that doesn't change the fact that just handing it out, willy-nilly, goes against the grain of earned badges - and giving ANY sort of "oops, you missed it, here's a second chance" setup for ANY limited-opportunity does leave a sour taste in the mouth for many of us who missed OTHER neat badges with limited acquisition opportunities.

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This is honestly the trickiest of the criteria. We'd have to either have a time travel gimmick mission, or an "Alternate Universe" gimmick mission. I'd actually prefer the latter. It would make it so that pre-I2 toons couldn't get this until they reached Peregrine Island level, however. Once there, the flagged accounts would receive a pop-up message, similar to the ones for the Christmas and Valentine's Day missions. It would basically say, "Dr. Soeandsoe needs to speak with you immediately!" When you speak with him, he would give you the following schpiel:

"HeroX, we've discovered something disturbing: One of the many worlds out there that we've found through our research is in danger of being overrun by the same virus you likely fought as your first service to Paragon City. Their strongest heroes all sacrificed themselves in the battle against the Rikti, and unfortunately the remaining heroes were nearly drained of all power in the battle; thus, they fight valiantly to stem the tides of the Contaminated, but they are about to lose the fight. We need you to go wipe out enough of those infected to halt the progress of the virus. The downside here is that this world never reverse-engineered the portal technology - and so we cannot let them know that we are there. Because of that, you'll have to use only your weakest powers so you don't stand out too much. We've only got one shot at this; if you fail, the Contaminated will surely break out before you can restore yourself and get back to that world."

Now, because you're technically a brand-new hero to this alternate universe, you could be rewarded the badge, since it is technically the "start of your career" in that dimension.

So... any thoughts?

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THAT, I could get behind ... and I might even be a bit jealous of the pre-I2 characters who got to run the mission. Heck, I'd be happy if the mission were allowed for anyone, but the badge was limited to the pre-I2 hero. (More on that, later!)

But, here's an alternate suggestion for you: the Contaminated in this alternate word are in danger of breaking loose, because they're just THAT little bit more powerful than those in "our" Paragon City; there's just no chance that a wee, level-1 newbie going through the tutorial would have a chance against them.

Throw some story-twist into that: have your hero showup, and save his own level-one alternate's backside from a "Contaminated+" attack, explain the situation (hey, if you can't trust "yourself" with the secret, you're in deeper trouble than you thought!!). Then ... team up with yourself (the NPC-you gts boosted to one level below you, as if he were sidekicked), and go do a series of missions together. For the sake of "fun", I'd even say ... make the alternate-you a "pet", with full MM controls. Give non-MMs a taste of what it's REALLY like to be in the driver's seat. ^_^

NOT exactly the same as the Outbreak we all know and love, mind you - park some high-tech labs in there, where the stronger strain is being MADE. And populate it with Fifth Column! (Hey, why not, right?) A bit of a "blast from the past" for the pre-I2's, and a "woah, so THAT'S what I missed" moment for latecomers like myself.

Now, yes, I said "a few missions". I'm thinking of this as a Task Force, not just a simple mission. Yes, with it's own seperate, anyone-gets-it badge ("Re-Isolator" ... ^_^).

For us post-I2's, it's just a new TF with a DARNED NEAT story to it (including being able to "SK yourself", heh), and a fun badge.

And, here's the catch ... you don't need Peregrine Island or Portal Corps ...! You need Paragon Dance Party ...! ^_^ That means, you could even have it be a Hero/Villain cooperative strike-force - the heroes get to stop an Outbreak (again), the Villains get a sample of the improved virus!!

For the pre-I2's, it's all that ... AND a chance to earn the original Isolator.

Mechanically, here's what I see being needed, aside from setting up the TF itself:
[*] Datamine to find the pre-I2 characters; award them an "invisible badge" as a placeholder;[*] Make it so the "Contaminated+" mobs are not the same as the Contaminated in the Tutorial. Kill 1, or kill 1,000,000,000 ... it won't do ANY good;[*] set the TF to also award "Isolator" to anyone with that invisible badge, replacing the invisible badge, upon completion of the TF.

... and that's it. ANYone can do the TF, ANYone can earn the NEW badge ... only pre-I2 characters can get Isolator "after the fact".

New, enjoyable-by-ALL content. New badge. Chance for the old-timers to correct a minor injustice done to them.

Win-win situation. I could get behind that fully and completely.

P.S.
There are some that would object even to that - my mate, for example, wouldn't even like that, or ANY way for pre-I2's to get Isolator. In her words, as mine earlier - "what about US, and the Event badges?"

I can see her point, and honestly, I agree - but the above scenario is one I would at least find palatable, albeit not preferable. I'd still prefer you guys remain S.O.L. for Isolator, and be given a "Golden Age" badge instead. No offense, mind.

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Finally, and this is a matter of personal taste; but the solution should most likely take the form of a 'regular' mission, in which it just so happens that Isolator is available.

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I object to any such possibility.

A regular mission opportunity as you describe does not limit the "go back and get it, after all" opportunity to Pre-I2 characters only; it throws the gates wide open for anyone to go and get it again.

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The badge is quite descriptive; "You started your career"... The badge is very clearly tied to a particular time and event; in order for any solution to go forward, the badge text needs to be changed.

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I object to any such change of text, also.

The entire point of Isolator is that it is the FIRST in-game opportunity to earn a badge which a character (made post-I2) can earn. That is intrinsic in it's very existance. To change the text and eliminate that reference would destroy the badge itself.

Any opportunity for anyoen to get Isolator post-tutorial must, IMO, meet these four non-negotiable criteria:
[*] It must be limited, solely and exclusively, wihtout exception, to those character who never had the opportunity to earn Isolator the "approved" way - meaning, those created before Issue 2;
[*] It must require EFFORT to acquire - effort commensurate with the effort of killing 100 level-one Contaminated with (at best) a Security(1)/Combat(2)-levelled character;
[*] It must be a one chance only, no re-attempts allowed scenario; once you leave the "do-over" mission or whatever, you must not be allowed to return (ideally, there ould be a hospital IN the mission, of course);
[*] It must involve precisely zero alteration to the existing badge text.



The first one is because: I don't want it to become OPTIONAL to get it in the tutorial for new characters; I want new characters out to earn that badge toput the same work into it as they must today.

The second one is because, well ... TANSTAAFL; I want the pre-I2 guys to ALSO put the same (relative) amount of effort into getting the badge, as anyone post-I2 who sports it.

The third one is because ... as with a newbie in the Tutorial, if you leave without getting the badge, I want you to have missed the damned bus, once and for all and IRREVERSIBLY. The same as said newbie hero popping out to GC or AP.

And the last one, well ... because I'm willing to be a complete d*ck and protect the accomplishment of a coupleof my heroes, who DID start their careers ont eh described "high point"; I want the badge to CONTINUE to ascribe that very achievement to the badge-wearer.

...

Come up with something that meets (or exceeds) those four criteria, and I won't have any objections to it. Miss even one, and I will remain 100% opposed to the very concept itself.

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The point isn't that allowing ONE o-back will create desires or suggestions regarding the other badges, it's that it steadily gets harder and harder to say no, each timeyou say yes.

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*boggles*

That statement makes as much sense as saying "I say no every time my child wants to see a movie, no matter what the movie, because if I say yes just once it's harder for me to say no the next time."

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More like "My kids aren't allowed to see R-rated movies - no exceptions, becuase if I say 'yes' once, I know the NEXT time, they'll be aaaw, but LAST time you let us, and THAT was okay! This time will be the same thing!!"

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Or a boss that says "I say no everytime an employee asks for a raise, if I give one a raise, then it makes it harder to say no to the next one."

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False analogy, because an employer must EXPECT to give out raises some time.

Want a good analogy? A REALLY good one?

"This country does not negotiate with terrorists." There's a reason for that policy (and at least here, it is policy).

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We are not asking for a 'gimme' but a way to earn something.

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Careful with that "we", kemosabe - the guy Iw as replying to DOES think that Isolator SHOULD just be given, for free to all pre-I2 characters.