PRAF68_EU

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I think the defender and tanker inherents need to be looked at too (gauntlet is fine conceptually, but doesn't work well enough in practice).


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Its a good job no one listens to anything you say, or we would be in a sorry state.

Thats controllers, tanks and defenders your not happy with, do you like any AT's?

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The ATs are ok. The inherents are flawed. the defender one rewards you for not defending your team. Gauntlet simply doesn't work half the time, and brutes get it for free along with another inherent.

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Even if they do try and change this 'problem' it will most likely only make it to test like the former Stalker changes and Rage lol

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The change to Rage from Only affects self to -999% damage is still happening. It is only the second change, -20% to zero recovery which is not happening.

The change to MoG is happening

The change to replusion bomb is happening

The War Mace buffs are happening.

The Ice melee buffs are happening.

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Yes, im asking for buffs.

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But you have a problem with Containment? Which is a buff to help controllers!!

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He seems to be getting confused with himself, a sign of a poorly thought out thread??



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No, I'm getting pretty tired of people reading things into what I say that are QUITE SIMPLY NOT THERE.

Do I think controllers should be nerfed: NO I DON'T.

Do I think containment should be changed? Not nessasaraly. Am I interested in if our allegedly intellegent and creative comunity can come up with a superior suggestion? Yes.

Do I think controllers (or any AT/power) should be changed because of farming? Certainly not.

Have I ever said anything to indicate otherwise? No I haven't.

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Yes, im asking for buffs.

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But you have a problem with Containment? Which is a buff to help controllers!!

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I think containment is conseptualy flawed. If controller is meant to be a low damage AT is should not get a buff to damage, it should get a buff to its ability to control instead.

If its not meant to be a low damage AT they should change the in game description.

Yes, im asking for buffs.

Illusion has no immob.

I wasn't trying to prove anything, so I don't know what your problem is. I simply asked a "what if" question.


And for the umteeth time, I DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE A BALDY FARMER SO GET OVER YOUR PARANOIA ALREADY.

I do think there are problems with containment conceptualy (which has absolutely nothing to do with farming. If the devs think farming is a problem then it needs to be tackled through the rewards system). I do think it is a problem if an inherent benefits someone who chooses a "high damage" primary more than a "high control" primary. Your comparison with scrappers is false. Claws and BS do equvelent damage, it just that claws does it with many small attacks, while BS does it with fewer larger attacks. But most imprtantly, a scrappers primary function is to do damage, and they have an inherent that helps them with thier primary fuction.

I would love it if my controller inherent made me more effective against AVs. I would give up a lot of aoe damage for that.

I think the defender and tanker inherents need to be looked at too (gauntlet is fine conceptually, but doesn't work well enough in practice).

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To be fair, how many damage dealing powers (that can potentially out-damage a Blaster) do Controller's get? Sure, my damage output on Propel against a "Contained" mob is powerful, but it's also incredibly slow "casting" time, uses a lot of Endurance, and isn't spectacularly accurate. Maybe other Controller's are different (I've only got a high level Grav/Emp to my account name), but I don't think I'm particularly overpowered.

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Quite true. If you want a high damage controller you need to have powers that do decient damage in the first place, but such powers are available to controllers with certain primaries and secondaries. Another critisism of containment, it benefiots some primary/secondary combinations far more than others.

And admitedly, the high damage I get with Ill/TA isn't really down to containment all that much.

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APP damage was halved (iirc) so with the change: with containment they have the same values as they used to have before containment was added.

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Indeed. they where nerfed because of containment. This nerf could well be reversed if containment where changed.

Or -stealth, since the mobs will here you coming a mile away...

I woudn't. Especially I wouldn't slot any recharge in Taunt. Taunt is most effective when it is combined with damage. If you have a fast recharge in your taunt and spam it you will reduce the amount of damage you are doing (since if you are taunting you arn't attacking) and so it will be less effective.

Anyway, with Hasten and Force Feedback +recharge you should be able to keep your recharge at at least 170%, with is much better than you can get with slotting.

It used to be targeted on an ally but it was changed to target mobs a long time ago.


I don't know what the animation is like, as I said earlier I've never seen anyone use it.

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Where the hell is this complete safety part come from. My farmer dies regually but it doesnt bother me either. The safety of a farming toon comes from the fact that the toon is 50 and debt is irelavant.

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You sometimes get defeated?

It's true, fire/kin sucks. Ill/TA FTW.

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Why say you can when you havn't tested the latest game version?

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I know I could with the previous version, by a margin greater than the 12.5% buff. It's not an easy thing to set up and test though (part of the problem being oil slick damage not showing in combat logs).

But I notice you are not challenging me on:

Controllers outdamaging Dominators, Defenders, or Stalkers, all of which are listed as medium or high damage ATs, whilst controllers are listed as "low damage" in the in game AT description.

Maybe we should keep containment as is and change the in game description of controllers from low damage to high damage?

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also, the customers don't have access to all the information that the developers have.

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But you seem to think you do! I've come to notice

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I don't have access to thier data, but I do pay close attention to what they say on the US forums, and if you pay attention for long enough you would have to be very dim not to get some idea how they think.

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I don't think that's entirely true, especially after the revision of Defiance.

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I certainly haven't tested it after the changes to defiance, so you could be right.

also, the customers don't have access to all the information that the developers have.

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Not good blasters

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Any blasters. Quite easily (and without any of this faceplanting nonsense). And dominators by a massive margin.

Illusion doesn't do all that well out of containment, since it only affects a small part of Spectral wounds damage, and Flash is rubbish.

I like my contoller to. I just find it odd that she outdamages blasters.

They would solo even more effectively if you made containment only work on single target attacks, but increased all mezz durations by 20%, for example.

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I seem to be getting the impression from your previous post's on this post and on the Fire/Kin post that you have a problem with controllers and there ability to solo or farm, and now this post about changing Containment! To stop this or prevent the ability altogether..

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OFFS! Can you not say anything here without people thinking you are bashing them!

My post has nothing to do with farming, or any specific controller powerset combination. Nor did it say "Nerf containment". It was simply because in the other thread changing containment was suggested.

Apropiate responses are:


1) I think containment should be changed to do X.

or

2) I don't think anything could improve on how containent works now.

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Why use something in your argument that you know to be wrong.

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Because I wasn't "arguing". You asked for my opinion, and I gave it, along with my reasons. I'm not trying to pursuade you to agree with it. If you think containment is perfect the way it is all you have to do is say so.

Soloed controllers before containment...

I agree that the manual doesn't mean much now. However it does show that at the time the devs thought it was fine that some ATs could solo better than others, and the development team hasn't changed all that much in the intervening years.

No, they did if for PvP, and because they didn't want perma-lockdown of full team spawns.

It says in the manual "will find soloing difficult". So long as players are forewarned I don't see a problem with that.

You want my opinion?

The Controller was never concieved as a damage dealer. Nor was it concieved as beeing easy to solo (for evidence, see the first edition of the full game manual).

Compared to doninators, controllers do more damage but dominators can manage higher mag holds. This seems the wrong way around to me.

My feeling is that the controller inherent should buff thier primary function (locking down mobs), not buff something that wasn't meant to even be a secondary function.