Obsidian_Force2

Cohort
  • Posts

    372
  • Joined

  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blasted_Man View Post
    I may have made a mistake somewhere in here, but in a toggle it has a 5% chance of activation every 10 seconds. So it fires roughly once every 200 seconds and lasts for 5.25.
    According to my hero-stats it's buffing the damage for 10 seconds at an improved damage modifier of 72%, either hero-stats is wrong or this is skewing your numbers.
  2. Wonderful and informative post and I really have very little to add.

    The main point I have noticed is the appearance that people who play less frequently or for shorter periods of time appear to be the ones who view procs as less valuable.

    This is not a hard and fast rule obviously as both LX and AlienOne (currently) see the advantages of procs and I believe both do not conform to what i'm talking about, but whenever we begin talking about the advantages of procs in a build I have noticed the ones who are not happy using procs appear to be the sort who will run a few missions then do something else, switch toons or call it a night.

    It's simply a pattern I have noticed on the forums, and I have no doubt if you played a character with setted out procs for just a few missions and did not come back to that toon for a day or three it could very well seem they are not going off very often.

    I am not a mathmatician, and have only gotten fairly good at running numbers by necessity and dogged determination. My skill is seeing patterns and trying to use math to find out why.

    This is just a pattern I "think" I am seeing and would love to see a more skilled mathamatician figure out the why's of.

    Could it be that over very short periods of play the straight enhancer comes out ahead of the proc? And if so, why?
  3. Ok, I'll play.

    If you assume a 33% chance (purples) then roughly 1 in 3 attacks will proc for 107 points of damage or an improvement per attack of around 35.666666666666666666666666666667.

    20% chance being around every 4-6 attacks per proc with substantialy reduced damage.

    As always damage procs and procs like it are almost always best used on AOE attacks because the checks happen vs. each enemy in the area of effect with equal chances to affect each.

    What is commonly missed and the reason I like the Guassiens proc in toggles, is the damage spike especialy when speaking of an AOE attack or better yet group of attacks.

    While over time the improvement in damage can be small (depending on the timespan you measure, it all adds up.) That spike in damage can make a huge difference between killing a bunch of mobs in a single attack or having them almost dead and shooting back at you while you finish them off.

    Other notable procs I have seen used to good effect are the chance for 100% recharge placed in an aoe attack able to do KB with a semi-quick recharge like White dwarf foostomp, and the previously mentioned Guassiens chance for build up proc in Nova.
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by LordXenite View Post
    I usually 6-slot my Dwarf form with a mix of +Res;+EndMod;+EndRdx and that's on top of slotting +EndRdx in Dwarf powers.
    The End Reductions will only lower the cost of the Dwarf toggle itself and my understanding of the End Mod was that it provided a very poor return ( I have forgotten the exact amount) for the slots invested.
  5. If your blue bar is taking a hit in dwarf i would suggest adding a performance shifter chance for endurance proc into dwarf form.
  6. I agree.

    I was stating several posts had already gone off topic.

    Had you been the one who had I might have specified.

    In anycase, back to the show.
  7. Were already so far off topic, and it took so little time I was willing to put in the effort.

    Neither are new to this thread or the kheldian forums.

    And I was feeling snarky.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by LordXenite View Post


    I don't care about soloing MMO's, and I don't care for slapping together a build in Mids and then engaging in in-game activity that bores me just so I could have the sets to slot in my build so I could solo an MMO, especially on a class nudged towards teaming.

    #1 I rarely solo these days and have never really been into it.

    #2 You would have a harder time avoiding getting sets than getting them by just *gasp* playing how you normaly do. I have Io'ed out at least 12 characters by just playing exactly how I did before IO's came out. I don't even use the market to make (most) of my money.

    #3 "Most" people don't need sets to solo in this MMO even on a Kheldian.

    #4 I'm happy your happy. Wait, no I actually don't think about you that much to care. But hey anything to drag the conversation away from that annoying stats talk and back onto feelings, you know like happy and fun?
  9. Ok, I'll try...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post
    So... If you've never implied that not giving "the most uber ultimate 'most optimal' build" means you'll have to be doing content "on the normal lowest setting," then what does the bolded section mean?



    Seriously, what does that mean? That if a "final, most uber awesome ultimate optimal build" is finally somehow created (most likely by your 'genious mathematical skillz'), then all anyone has to do for any future advice for ANY build is to just link to what you've put together in Mid's, and have proved 'beyond the shadow of a doubt' is "the perfect build?"

    Screw giving advice. ANYONE should be able to do "normal content," right?
    The quote means anyone with a good finger and half a brain can come up with a build (and play it) for any AT, that can do normal lowest setting content. It simply requires no build advice at all.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post
    I have one question though: Why do people still come for Kheld advice then?
    I believe it's because they want to do content on a harder setting and progress faster.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post
    Most people I've seen coming for Kheld advice (whichever form it may be) aren't wanting to build an "AV soloer" or a "+4x8 soloer."

    They're just wanting advice on what the community thinks about different builds, why they would/wouldn't take certain powers, or (to quote Justaris) find a build that's "viable."
    They can do viable on their own if they spend any time at all thinking. Beyond viable is where they want advice.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post
    So, if "by most people's definitions" (or the definition you just laid out in your own quote--you said it, I didn't) 'not sucking' is doing stuff on basic level content, by that standard alone, that proves human-forming Khelds are damn awesome.
    Beyond viable comes the huge grey area of perception. I believe people seeking advice want the very best build and style advice they can get for their time and money spent.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post
    But... If a human former (by that definition) is that good, then...

    Why say giving human-form advice is "pointing out a mediocre ways to play?" (your own quote provided below for your own lack of search/remembrance skills)
    Because I believe Tri-Form will always be better given equal time spent learning and money spent on building.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post
    While we're talking about that, why don't we discuss this next point?

    You're suggesting here that people who "build how they like" don't care about performance?



    Please explain.
    People who intentionaly pick ways of doing things that will be harder or less effective do not care about performance as much as they care about their "concept", it's an overstatement on my part obviously but their primary concern is NOT performance because they chose something over performance.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post
    Let's take the OP for example. He asked for a "best performance" human-only build.

    Your response to anyone giving a build in this regard (because of your already stated hatred for human-forming) is that it is "mediocre" or "can only handle basic level content"....Correct?
    No, I do not know how effective they will be, I only know they would be more effective as Tri-Form. The mediocre and basic level content comment was speaking of the fact anyone can come up with a build to do that, nothing else.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post
    No? Then why make a statement like is, as if the Kheldian community DIDN'T have "good performance" in mind when giving a build, whether it's human-only or not?
    Honestly i have seen some of the worst advice given on here and it's never supported with anything resembling facts (the bad advice). The sort of (bad) advice given here wouldn't show up on other AT forums, and if it did it would be corrected instantly and backed up with facts. Builds would be analyzed, bean counted, reverse engineered and corralated for it's effectiveness without reguard to hurting anyones scrapper/controller/defender pride.

    Here we are ultra cautious to make sure nobody ever does anything "wrong", their just excercising their ability to make alternative (in alot of cases REALLY bad) play styles and builds. Here nothing is better than anything else, nothing is bad or wrong it's just choices without any relavance at all to success in the game. It's tolerated because we as a whole are content to never be as good as all the other AT's, as a nitch funzies concept toon AT.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post
    So, by them coming to ask for advice, then we are suggesting they can do content at a HIGHER level on our builds, correct?
    Yes the more performance oriented the higher the level you can play at and do well.





    Hopefully this clarifys my views a bit better.
  10. This was for Alien:


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2 View Post
    I do not actually believe there is only one way to play, but saying there is not one best way is as false as saying that all travel powers are equal.

    I don't care how anyone plays

    I don't care what travel power anyone takes.

    I DO care when people make claims that are FALSE such as there is no best most efficient way to play or all travel powers are equal.

    You can mince words and say fly is more useful or SJ can be more useful because of vertical movement, but if your talking TRAVEL Teleport is the fastest followed by SS then SJ then Fly, and no matter what fun factor or "what i'm most comfortable using" factor will change the fact some are better baseline powers for TRAVEL than others.

    The same is true on builds and play styles.

    A little bit better is still better, a couple seconds faster per mob is still better, and I'm just mainly annoyed at having to say things that are so patently common knowledge but marginalized for certain personal preferances.
    This was for LX:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2 View Post
    And while i'm fairly fermented on this...

    People who come to the forums asking build advice are NOT asking for fun factor builds, anyone can make a fun factor build that will be able to do the content on the lowest setting.

    I would honestly have to work to build something that couldnt do the content on that level. They do not need your advice or mine to do that.

    People are perfectly capable of reaching mediocrity without your help or mine. I believe the ones who come here for build advice want to know how to build well for effect, to succed in more than the lowest setting level, not to find out what funzies ideas you have come up with lately.

    AlienOne as much as I hate to admit it has a nitch here because building for human form requires a good bit of knowledge to build to great effect.

    I simply do not know why you engage in topics of this nature as you don't care about performance beyond being able to do basic level content, which requires aboslutely no build advice at all.
  11. I actually had to find it and your half right, I was replying to you with alot of it, but when i got on my funzies roll that was towards LX. My bad for trying to talk to two people at once without realizing it. Allow me to try to break it down so it makes more sense.
  12. Read the edit, then come back, most of what you have selected (almost if not all of it) wasn't even to you (again).

    Read it in context. Then we can debate.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2 View Post
    I would swap the whole fighting/leadership pools to something more like the concealment pool though as well as pick up the nuke, and gravitic emmination for offencive ability to not be slaughtered.
    This is the only post "I" could find mentioning slaughter (which I already said was over stated) and it's referancing a human forms vulnerability to mezz and possible methods to counteract this. If your reading more into it than that, I don't know what to tell you.

    If you can find another feel free to post it as I cannot seem to find anything beyond this first post other than repeated attempts to change what I actually said or give it a meaning of your choosing dispite what I most likely ment of it.

    I do believe Tri out performs human based on the fact that we can both operate mired and perma eclipsed (capped ressists) but in squid form i'll lose 3 seconds shifting which gives you a couple extra opening attacks (3 at most due to animation times) but after that i'll be able to spam my 2 aoes without stopping with a higher damage ratio (1.0 to your .85) and an additional 45% damage boost from being in squid form while you rely on OD and Dark Detonation.

    You can of course hit Unchain Essence and or Quasar but with only a 1 second drop to human I can also use mine (both 5 slotted 89% recharge 94% damage so at best you might have an extra slot in both of the nuke powers.)

    I simply do not see where your making up the damage to make it so close as you believe.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post

    It sounds to me that you're pretty closed-minded when it comes to "alternative ways to play." You say "you don't care," but then you get all into trying to accuse me of encouraging people to "play with mediocrity."


    I AM closed minded on ways to play, I have always believed the people who use the "why don't you just keep an open mind to the ways of others" to mean "why don't you think more like me?". Which is all it is, as nobody is open minded about anything they actually care about.

    But that aside I should have cut you off when you first posted this as what you have quoted was part of the back and forth between LX and me and not you and me. I wasn't really interested in correcting you and I figured any attempt to would just illicite more problems than it was worth as you were being fairly civil.

    But back on topic.

    Your cobbling things together that I "almost" said in attempt to prove what i'm thinking.

    It's not very effective.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cyg_X1_Denizen View Post
    Can't we all just get along?
    LMAO...ahem I mean...awww ok.
  15. Your massively exagerating both what I said and the intent.

    Your completely ignoring alot of what I specificly said in this very thread because it contradicts what you want to convey.

    Your assuming, and changing what was said to fit your ends.

    As I have said countless times before, (and you have chosen to ignore it for your own reasons) in my opinion a Tri-Form will always out perform a human build when built with an equal costing build and played by equally competant players.

    I do not believe human form is "Teh Suck".

    Do I believe it is sub-optimal?

    Very much so yes.

    Do I care what anyone plays for build?

    Not even a little.

    Do I think the fact Tri-Forming performs better should become common knowledge to everyone and be pointed out to anyone who does not seem to be aware of the fact?

    Absolutely, and always.

    Does this mean in anyways whatsoever that I demand everyone play Tri-Form?

    Nope.

    Do I believe everyone would benifit by doing so?

    Yes, at the moment with how Kheldians currently are implimented, thats almost an indisputable fact.

    I do not really care how annoyed you get when point these things out (even in human build threads).

    I believe these things are important enough to point out that I have no intention to stop doing so because what I say is basicly accurate if not nicely put.

    I'm not even sorry you somehow feel my pointing things like this out somehow compels people to avoid human formers because in the end it's their choice to make and making them informed allows them to make that choice with more facts than it's perfectly doable and fun.

    Giving out correct information does no harm to anyone except people whos agendas benefit from people not having all the facts

    ie. People who do not want people to know the best most efficient way to build/play for fear some unknown build/style will become the "cookie cutter" one everyone uses and excells with.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Justaris View Post
    In other words, if we were talking about Masterminds, there's really no question of how well the "petless" variant compares to a variant that takes and uses the pet powers.
    Actually is it really so clear?

    I know a guy who actually did the petless mastermind thing, he could complete missions set for +2 x2.

    You say this is "teh Suck" (actually you didn't say that but i'm begining to see the virtues of missquoting what people say as a benifit to my cause.) but given the proof I have seen (the fact he could do this solo) can I call him gimped because he does poorer than a pet mastermind?

    Depends on your perspective it seems.

    You cannot have it both ways.
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post



    According to Obsidian, yes.

    According to myself, no.

    That's the basic disagreement.
    Either I am typing things I do not realize or your absolutely missquoting me and putting words into my mouth at every turn.

    On the off chance I'm actually saying this i'm going back to reread what I actually posted, I suggest you do the same and compaire it to what you think I said.
  18. My only reasons for prefering Eclipse over Lightform is that Lightform has a rather nasty crash and is not permable and Eclipse has no crash and is (semi) easily permable.

    On the plus side for Lightform, Eclipse gives no status ressist and lightform in fact does (which you already noted).
  19. In my opinion this is a perfectly fine stance to take, but even the phrase "not sucking" is in itself very very subjective.

    Anyone with half a brain can make any AT well enough to do normal lowest setting content without getting any build advice whatsoever.

    That is by most definitions "Not Sucking".

    When people require more than this to the point their seeking advice, do we just point out one of the mediocre ways to do it or do we suggest the best way and allow them to scale back to what they feel they need?

    To me this seems the most logical method.

    I truely do believe some of the people here want to avoid ANYONE finding an optimal way because in that event most people will gravitate to that best way and anyone who doesn't feel deathly worried that they will be seen as some for of "gimp" build.

    To which I have to say either you care about your performance or you don't, if you don't then why do you care what anyone thinks?

    I simply cannot think of a reasonable reason to not always provide people seeking advice with the very best method first and THEN letting them decide if they want to do that or not.

    Nobody is forced to build anything any way but how they want, so what is the harm in providing the most efficient methods?
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlienOne View Post

    By saying "there's only one true build," you're actually limiting people to a bland, "one way to play" universe. That's taking away "options." It's taking away, in come cases, "the fun factor." It's taking away "diversity."
    No, It really isn't. The people who do not care about performance can build however they like and the people who want to maximize their performance have a readily handy roadmap to use.

    The only thing that changes is it becomes common knowledge what the most effective way to play is to everyone.

    I call this a Win/Win.
  21. I do not actually believe there is only one way to play, but saying there is not one best way is as false as saying that all travel powers are equal.

    I don't care how anyone plays

    I don't care what travel power anyone takes.

    I DO care when people make claims that are FALSE such as there is no best most efficient way to play or all travel powers are equal.

    You can mince words and say fly is more useful or SJ can be more useful because of vertical movement, but if your talking TRAVEL Teleport is the fastest followed by SS then SJ then Fly, and no matter what fun factor or "what i'm most comfortable using" factor will change the fact some are better baseline powers for TRAVEL than others.

    The same is true on builds and play styles.

    A little bit better is still better, a couple seconds faster per mob is still better, and I'm just mainly annoyed at having to say things that are so patently common knowledge but marginalized for certain personal preferances.

    And while i'm fairly fermented on this...

    People who come to the forums asking build advice are NOT asking for fun factor builds, anyone can make a fun factor build that will be able to do the content on the lowest setting.

    I would honestly have to work to build something that couldnt do the content on that level. They do not need your advice or mine to do that.

    People are perfectly capable of reaching mediocrity without your help or mine. I believe the ones who come here for build advice want to know how to build well for effect, to succed in more than the lowest setting level, not to find out what funzies ideas you have come up with lately.

    AlienOne as much as I hate to admit it has a nitch here because building for human form requires a good bit of knowledge to build to great effect.

    I simply do not know why you engage in topics of this nature as you don't care about performance beyond being able to do basic level content, which requires aboslutely no build advice at all.
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by LordXenite View Post
    If someone feels dumb because someone else tells them their efforts are futile, maybe deep down inside they truly feel these efforts are indeed futile?
    And maybe if were truely attempting insights into how another person thinks, perhaps people who are not interested in maximizing for maximum p0wnage simply deep down know they do not possess the mental or physical attributes to achieve it.

    I don't believe this to be true but it's equally insulting, short sighted, and arrogant.
  23. The fact nobody will ever be the best in all eternity is something anyone grounded in reality will know.

    It's not words to live by it's don't be an idiot and live in your own little world were things like this do not exist.

    It just came across to me as a don't try to become better because somebody will always be better than you statement, which is a stupid thing to say.

    Anything worth doing at all is worth doing as best you are able. (which is in itself a no duh type of statement itself.)

    I'm simply frustrated by the mentality of "it's just a game, it's not really worth putting any work into so just do whatever", as it attempts to make the people who do want to do things the most efficient and or "best" way and put some work into the project seem dumb for doing so because it's just a fun little game..
  24. And yet improving your playstyle stops after a point in time and after that only improving your build becomes possible.
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Black_Aftermath View Post
    I have learned a great deal about Warshades from this thread as in my 4 years experience, never paid any attention to Khelds.
    This is perhaps the most important reason why i continue to bring up points I believe must be brought to light. Every once in a while you bring something new a reader simply does not yet know and is interested in learning.

    It allows them to make whatever choice THEY want without having to take my advice or anyone elses, and therefore make the best INFORMED choice THEY can.