NotPutzing

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Quite honestly, none of this really matters since all anyone has to do is challenge us and beat us....However, our match with ESK was listed as a forfeit since a match between us was agreed upon, created in the Arena terminal, listed, and ESK logged. I still don't know what happened, but they pretty much logged out all at once and we were left with an empty arena event after a match had been agreed upon.

This means a match was "scheduled", listed, and after 15 minutes of no-show, was concluded.

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It's true that it doesn't really matter all that much, what with there essentially being a three way tie for first that's being decided either by tie-breaking rules that weren't laid out properly beforehand or by ESK being tired and not wanting to fight you guys. No matter if OS, you, or we take the top spot, we all did a great job, losing only one match to each other.

That said, I think the rule that would apply would be from TGIA's post about setting up the initial rankings, where he says:

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Make sure you face every SG in the ladder on these two nights. If you do not face a group it will be counted as a loss for both groups.

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I don't think you faced ESK by any reasonable definition, colloquial or not. No more than all the challenges to whirligig (which wavered but decided not to face anyone because they didn't have enough players) count. I mean, he even later clarifies:

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Yes, if a team simply fails to show up you both take a hit.

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ESK did fail to show up to the match you say you "scheduled" with them, no?

I suppose it's up to TGIA. But I don't think you count as facing ESK, so I think OS, and not JAL, should have the top spot. I'd still greatly appreciate if all the appropriate numbers could be posted just so everyone can take a look.

Not to cause any more trouble, but I'm a little confused about the rankings.

According to JAL's website, they didn't get a chance to fight ESK. So, they won four fights against OS, Vel, SW and HR, and lost one to us. That gives them an overall record of 4-1

Freaks fought all the groups in the ladder. We beat JAL, SW, HR, Vel and ESK, losing to OS. That would make us 5-1. I'm not sure how many people OS fought, but I think I remember them getting in all the matches.

If we're 5-1 and JaL's 4-1, how is JAL ranked above us? Or, if you're doing the "no fight counts as a loss" rule that you mentioned in the OP, they'd then be 4-2.

Tgia, is there any way you could clear this up? At this point with two wrong listings, I'd kind of like to see all the math open to the public.

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Also, I believe Psypunk is challenging some of the newer SG's as a chance to use some of the old JaL members.. but thx for your concern. ^^

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Fixed.



(ftr, totally kidding and I hope Psy knows I still <3 JAL. I just really couldn't resist.)

I hadn't heard that Terp's no longer playing, but that's certainly sad to hear.

HR was there last night. I know they fought the Freaks, but I can't remember what other groups. They took on quite a few.

Sooooo . . .

What's been up with this?

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Sure, Ex agreed to help us out by making a poll, however, I'm sure that's something she'd agree to do if there was a move to make a badging server or a fruitsalad server or whatever else.

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I would hope so. But still, a redname (orangename, I guess) poll is still a level of involvement that makes a lot of people say to themselves, "oh, this must actually be happening, because a redname is involved."

Considering it is Ex Libris who asked that non-PvPers stay away from the poll, she is empowering the poll with her position. She may not be meaning to, or maybe she is: community coordinator is her job, and so maybe this is the kind of thing we'll expect to see in the future. But we haven't so far. So far, over the past few months, Ex Libris has come to be associated with the PvP community. She helped get the PvPEC off the ground because the PvP community couldn't get it off the ground themselves. She's in that community's corner, and a lot of people know it.

And I'm not saying that's bad. The PvP community needs someone in their corner. But I am saying this does not seem like a completely unofficial thing. You can say that this is unofficial all you want, but really, it seems like this is "unofficial" at best. The weight of having a redname be involved and make the poll should not be dismissed so lightly.

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If we still had the general levels of redname involvement that we had under Cuppa, having redname support for a player-driven movement like this would be strange and it would make it seem as though it were unofficial in name only. However, since Ex has made such a point of supporting community events and ideas (both in the forums and in game), I don't think your claim is all that valid. The poll is just using a board mechanic that's not open to people without redname status, similar to posting HTML fliers for events, which she also does.

As far as Ex being in the PvPers corner, yes, she helped out with the PvPEC, but she's also helped with Timeforce II, the gay prom, the straight prom, the City Scoop, and superteams. If you look at all the events/ideas she's supported, it's pretty clear that she doesn't care what we do (within reason), she just wants people active and involved and connecting. Really, I think she's in everyone's corner, PvPers were just loud enough that we got a decent bit of attention early on.

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At the same time, if my server were tapped to be the "unofficial" PvP server, I would want to know what, if anything, the devs would be willing to do to help Saint Joe's relocate to another server. If the answer to that question is "nothing," then I'd rather see another server get tapped.

Saying that a server is now the "unofficial PvP server" carries more complications than whether PvP'ers would pay to transfer to the new server. You need to consider the people who would want to leave that server as a result.

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The community has the right to gather, just as other communities have. In addition to the unofficial RP server (Virtue), many people claim Victory is the unofficial GLBT server, and Freedom's the unofficial place for French speaking players. Sure, Ex agreed to help us out by making a poll, however, I'm sure that's something she'd agree to do if there was a move to make a badging server or a fruitsalad server or whatever else.

That said, us creating an unofficial PvP server is completely beyond dev control. Unless they want to ban server transfers by accounts of known pvpers, there's really nothing they can do to prevent us from gathering on one server. And since it's not an official designation or decision, but rather one made by each individual who chooses to move or not, the devs shouldn't be doing anything to provide free transfers to those who then decide they want to leave. Indeed, to do so would sanctify the decision enough that it would no longer be unofficial.

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i really don't see why anyone would pay to transfer to a live server when you can still transfer to test for free... and you can copy over and over.

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My guess is that we'll always keep test as the place for practice and official matches for several reasons: the ability to change builds, the great equalizer that duping provides, and being able to use any toons your SGmates have in their stable without forcing them to spend $10 to try out a hunch.

That said, having some place where you're going to get to pvp with quality players that isn't active only between the hours of ~8pm and midnight Sunday-Thursday night would be a great boon. I'm almost certainly going to shell out $10 to move one of my emps there for zones, kickball, and the IPvPL.

Change your sig, son.

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I know an all-dom team did it, and an all-stalker team came close.

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The all stalker team did, in fact, complete it.

It might be nice if there were an arena option to allow temp powers, but I think a default not letting the temps be used is pretty clearly the superior option.

There are a lot of very powerful temps (wedding band, shivans, warburg nuke, mini heavies, snowbeasts, warwolf whistles, amy johnson) and matches could be easily decided by just who has more of them.

If as you claim the Nem staff is the "best, all purpose weapon in the game," wouldn't it be really unfair for you to win arena matches simply because you've been playing the game 3 months longer than someone else? Letting vet reward powers in the arena would pretty clearly be unfair, and I'm glad they're not permitted.

That's okay. We're just talking about the veng issue in all the other threads.

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Ad hominem stacking ftl.

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i really dont think they should mess with Veng stacking if a team works together to get it off but i am all for nerfing the "loading into a match with 7 stacked"

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Alas, there's the coding prob. You really can't have one without the other. For the devs it'd be far simpler to fix stacking outright.

I haven't heard of it being stacked like that for PvP though... VERY damned sad, I thought you'd only need 1 veng to turn the tide.

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I imagine a relatively quick coding solution would be to have everyone be resed/get the full power recharge a few seconds earlier in the countdown than they're allowed to start moving and casting things.

The interruptible solution sounds like it could be a good quick fix as well.

Coding that it can't stack all together sounds like it'll be tough, but I have faith in Castle.

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if someone dies out or range of the team, when that dead person is tp'ed into your group, if multiple people have vengence qued up in their power try, when the dead man arrives, the multiple vengences will all go at the same time, and it will stack. (which is a no-no, apparently)

Apparently, people have been doing it in pvp, and i know it gets done in pve (LRSF). As already mentioned, if the people (pve or pvp) can't stack it, then hows about nem can't stack theirs, either? It's always fun to find a mob of 5 LTs.

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If the way it's being exploited is by queuing it up while the target is out of range, wouldn't making the activation interuptable fix the problem? I don't think interuptable powers can be queued up, iirc.

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That might work PVE and would go a long way to fixing the pre-match stack, but it wouldn't cure pvp teams doing a countdown on vent and four stacking veng.

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I realize its an "exploit" now but the fact that getting in stacked, particularly in large scale pvp matches, I don't think hurts the game. I remember when I first started joined LD you couldnt pay someone to stay dead, as they would always hit the respawn button forgetting to stay dead for me to get vengance off, being able to stay dead/gather/and time a buff to me takes practice/cooperation/ and maybe a bit of luck. Its on par with a good spike or a great rush and nuke of the opposing team. Thats my opinion anyways, not like the change will affect my 1 vs 1 action. Though the pre-vengance stacking before a match is quite wrong, even if you fix the stacking, one vengance pre-match is just as wrong.

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I fully agree with Fel.

I'd like to see a quick fix where the res/full health/powers recharged happens a few seconds earlier in the countdown than the ability of everyone to fix powes.

If eventually mechanically veng can get fixed, I think it will be a change for the better.

Hmm. And I was just going to ask if you could unsticky my old guide so I could tailor it to the new forum and add other guides in.

Let me go guide searching and see what I can cook up this afternoon.

Is a FAQ still appropriate or should it be pure links to other guides?

Yes. More than any other part of the game.

Sad to hear.

My thoughts and prayers to his friends and family.

I would PM Lighthouse or Ex Libris about getting the guides move to the guide section so they won't be deleted.

Beyond that, nice guides, GL/HF and GG.

I think this would be a fine sticky to have here in pvp general.

I was linking this guide for someone and noticed the question at the end.

No one takes whirlwind. You don't want it at all.

You really, really need the speed pool. Hasten is godly for getting RAs back at a decent rate. Even without that, you really want superspeed for sirens because otherwise you're screwed when the other side has webnades.

SS will add to your survivability and movement a lot. I'd push off phase and use the temp warburg one in Sirens. 90 minutes is a lot of phase shift, and as you get better you'll need it less. Hasten and SS are better to have early.

Since you have res in there, I'd push that back first. If you don't feel comfortable with that, push phase shift and ginvis to post sirens levels while keeping stealth.

And I posted a link to it on the Vanguard forums.

Being Nags ftl.

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SG: The Chaotic Conflagration

Leaders:Myself and Ed-Wreck

We go for the maximum FPS the game can offer, that's Fun Per Second!

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LOL! I can't believe I've wasted so much valuable time not mocking you for using the term "fun per second."


The best part is definitely the effort involved in bolding the first letter of earch word. Loser.

Conflag ftw; Nags writing the description ftl.