New_Dark_Age

Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino

Well, for one thing, the markets are cross-server, so the freedom and virtue markets are the same (although they are not cross-faction, so the hero and villain markets are not the same). So, yes, it really is this rare, across all servers, and for good reason - it does indeed function the same way as the steadfast 3%, and you can stack them.

The reason it is so expensive and rare is that demand is huge and supply is tiny. Everyone who wants to soft cap their build in PvE wants one, so demand is through the roof. The IO is in a PvP IO set, so it is only supplied by the (extremely rare) IO drops from defeated players in PvP. Given that very few PvP in this game and the drops are very uncommon even for those who do PvP, the supply of these IOs is next to nonexistant. So, there is no standing supply, thus those that want it bid higher so that they have a chance to get the next one that is posted, and so the bids keep going up. If it wasn't for the 2 billion influence cap, the price would probably be even higher.

If you want to get one, the only real way is to place a 2 billion bid on either the enhancement or recipe at level 50 (whichever has better turnover) and hope the RNG smiles your way and chooses your bid from amongst all the other 2 billion offerings. If someone were to try and sell it on the forums, I'm guessing it would go for well more than 2 billion.

Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man

I'd like to direct you to this thread:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=202437

Originally Posted by Liberty_Paradox

VFX for Invincibility is still buggy. I dunno if anyone other than me even plays this set with the VFX on anymore since no one is talking about it. When a custom color is chosen Invincibility does not display any VFX. On original the VFX display during activation but do not persist. I made a quick vid with fraps to show what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDLP5-zHPWY

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Man, I thought it was a myth, but it seems a man is truly capable to talk out of his ***. And I thought all those people demonstrating it are ventriloquists... The more you know, I guess.

Let's compare Soul Transfer to Elude. In your typical five-hour gaming session, I will have used precisely 0 (that's ZERO) times, because by and large, I don't really need it either way, and it's on a long enough recharge to where I'm reluctant to use it even when I do. And on the off chance I do use it, I die anyway, which makes me a combination of giddy and mouth-foaming mad, if you can picture that. By comparison, of the time I've had Soul Transfer, my use of it will fluctuate between "no use, as expected" to "Oops! I died. Time to get back up!" So I get more use out of Soul Transfer, the power that resurrects me, than I do out of Elude, the power that prevents me from dying... Sometimes.

As far as inspirations go, if you do NOT carry any awakens, then you are, quite frankly, wrong to do so. You are going to die, and when you do, your choices are limited. You can beg for a resurrect, which may or may not be within your team-mate's capabilities, unless you are solo in which case you don't have team-mates to resurrect you. You can go to the hospital, causing team-mates to waste their time sitting on their hands and, in the absence of such, wasting your own time with aimless, pointless retreading travel. You can beg for an awaken, or waste inordinate amounts of other inspirations just so that you can make an awaken, but I'm sure a proud man like yourself would find this distasteful. Or you can get up ON YOUR FRIKKIN' OWN and save everyone the hassle and the wait. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who does not carry at least one awaken and at least one break-free is officially a pain in the *** when they die. And they WILL die, I don't care how macho they are.

Self-resurrect powers are like that, only they don't run out, so when you get trapped on that disastrous Respec Trial or ITF and find yourself carrying the rest of the team on your back and biting the dust right along with them, you won't be one of the whiny gits who spend the bulk of the fight dead or travelling to and from the hospital, but rather you will spend most of your time up and fighting. What's more, most of the time when you die, it's either to something big or to a massive wave of enemies, so having a self-resurrect power that damages them while putting you back in the fight is a major boon.

If you don't like it, then fine. You are not forced to take it, or indeed play Fiery Aura or Dark Armour. Suffice it to say that there are those of us who DO want to play the sets just as they are designed, and if you don't like that, you can go to hell. What's more, if you're going to argue against self-resurrect powers not protecting you, would you similarly argue against ally-resurrect powers that don't protect allies when they're alive and suggest they be replaced with MoG, too? Because I'd love to see how that goes.

Face it - some people like Rise of the Poenix as it is, and you don't get to tell them they are wrong for feeling that way. Unless you have an argument more meaningful than "You are stupid, I am right!" then you are not going to make any headway. About the only point I would concede is having a self-resurrect power remove debt upon activation, but that's unlikely to happen.

Originally Posted by Fury Flechette

Negative repped for being a putz and then telling people to "just relax".

Originally Posted by Silas

I'm perfectly able to build for effectiveness and concept.

I think thats at least partially attributable to not being a complete moron, though.

Originally Posted by Umbral

Of course, it's also not the same as some loser who keeps ******** that people that building intelligently are losers because he doesn't understand the math that's actually involved in the decision. If you want to ***** about the optimization choices that other people have made (and recommended you take so that you'd actually achieve the performance you want), look at the ******* system and attempt to learn it before you immediately abandon all notion of the recommendations we're giving you ever being grounded in intelligence rather than rote repetition.



Well, first off, I'm pretty sure that most of the min/maxer's would actually agree that generating optimized builds is fun, albeit a completely different kind of fun. We realize that we're playing a game that uses superheroes as the mechanism to achieve the fantastic. We focus on the "game" aspect more than the "superhero" aspect, because, at least to people like me, playing the game is the fun part; the superheroes are just a tool to enjoy it. You, on the other hand, focus almost entirely on the "superhero" aspect and then ***** about the "game" part interfering with what you think your superhero should be. You don't get to say "**** the game, I'm making the superhero I want," and then immediately ***** about the superhero you made not performing to the level that you wanted it to.

You mentioned wanting to run at +3/x6 in your previous thread and, when we told you that you would need to pack in the defense, you ran away whining and screaming. Now that we're still telling you the same thing, you're now insulting us because you don't have a ******* clue about what the hell we're talking about or why we're recommending certain courses of action beyond the fact that Maneuvers gives you defense.

Please, if you want to build for concept, build for concept, realize you're not going to be as badass as you could possibly be, and quit attempting to insult us here (seeing as it's a rather lackluster attempt to insult us when you don't even have a clue what you're talking about in the first place and can only come up with calling us "losers" for being good at something; very "high school" of you).

If you want to build for effectiveness, you may need to realize that you're not going to get your concept down on the first try. You're probably going to have to make some sacrifices, most of which are probably pretty easy to modify your concept to account for anyways, but you will get a character that laughs in the face of overwhelming evil because he's just that awesome. You'll also want to actually start learning the system so you're not just recreating what we tell you from rote, unless you're okay with being left behind whenever anything changes.

No matter which option you go with, quit attempting to make it seem like you've got the "superior" or "more pure" playstyle and play around with Mids' a bit so you don't seem like such a glorious dumb-*** trying to get the people that have a skill you don't have to do all of the work for you.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

I'm getting a little sick of people complaining that self-resurrect powers are only useful when you die. So? You WILL die. No matter what you do, no matter how good you are, no matter what set you play, you WILL die. Sooner or later, you will die, and having a power that works then is, as far as I'm concerned, pretty damn cool. I'm be seriously disappointed if I see self resurrection damage powers go, because they're one of the few remaining interesting powers.

To me, this argument is akin to wanting to remove seatbelts out of cars because you're such a good driver that you will never, ever crash. And you're racing in NASCAR. Boy is it gonna' suck when you do.

Originally Posted by Laevateinn

I have no idea where people like the OP get the idea that concept and performance are somehow at odds with each other. Such people are at a loss to explain why every single one of my characters strictly adheres to concept yet has extremely high-performance and well-designed builds. I'm proof that there's zero difference between so-called "concept" builds and "min-max" builds. There is only incompetence at 1) creativity or 2) build design which causes you to be unable to fufill both goals at once.

I've even got better concepts out of indulging the minmaxer in me. For a long time I wanted to play a Rad/Sonic defender, but the lack of a solid concept and name held me back. I made up some stuff about a post-apocalyptic punk rocker with radioactive powers, but it felt very weak to me. Then I realized that I could portray a Rad/Sonic defender as a hero with time and space manipulation powers. AM = speed up time, LR = slow down time, EMP = time stop. Her sonic attacks were reality-warping energy blasts that weakened the molecular structure of matter and rendering it vulnerable to further attack. By warping the structure of local space-time she could cause enemy attacks to miss. If something went wrong, she could jump back several instants in time to correct the mistake, causing wounds to "heal" and defeated allies to rise again and fight. I took SS and teleport for concept, which also let me slot many blessings of the zephyr for ranged defense. The resulting character is probably one of the most fun and powerful I've ever played.

It's funny how the OP choses to whine about people who don't strictly adhere to concept. It's even funnier how the OP gets all high and mighty after selling out his concept and rerolling as Fire/Regen. I'd love to hear what the rationale for that is. Most comic-book superheroes don't have much of a theme, and their powers wax and wane to the whims of plot and changing writers. Superman is probably the worst offender. Super speed, super strength, super toughness, flight, super jumping, X-ray vision... I see no theme but powergaming. Ironically, due to legions of copycat characters over the decades Inv/SS is now considered a "high-concept" build for no reason other than that the biggest munchkin of all time used it.

Originally Posted by Santorican

Play how you want, no one is telling you what you have to do. People here on the Scrapper boards usually go for extreme survival and very few people go for concept.

Maybe for future reference if you want a more specific answer geared towards making a whatever you want super hero then you should be less vague.

Originally Posted by Umbral

I'd probably just take Melt Armor rather than Fire Blast because Fire Blast is going to do you virtually no good.



With no +def powers (and thereby no LotG +rech IOs), you're not going to be particularly resilient since virtually all damage is going to be getting through to you. You'd be only slightly more survivable than a Fire/Regen with SOs and you'd also be devoting a lot more animation time to using your click powers.

Perma-DP is pretty much a must but Perma-Hasten isn't really all that great, especially when compared to what you could manage if you're willing to allow for a ~10 second downtime in exchange for a host of defense.

By the way, have you looked into getting Mids' Hero Planner? Might make it easier if you want to ever actually post a build rather than a list of powers. You might want to try messing around with it a bit yourself to see what you can come up with yourself rather than just asking other people to give you a build that fulfills your rather stringent requirements.

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

I "Fail to realize it doesn't work here" because with my multiple Fire tanks (and scrappers, now,) it has been working just fine.
Funny, no defense... in a resistance based set. Imagine that...
Burn

Do you burn through your END that fast? Then your build has problems. And have you considered slotting for recharge? It'll help a great deal. Oh, btw - yet another source of damage, here.

Might want to talk to dark and the VEATs about that lack of immob protection in melee, as well. Fire isn't alone in that.



... which lets me get back in the action *immediately* on the rare occasions I die, doing damage, stunning the enemy... you sound, quite frankly, like no - you *don't* know the Fire set, haven't bothered paying attention to anything but how it's not, say, Ice. If I'm down, I'm back in the action *now,* my team (you know, those other strange people on the screen you can't attack) is still safe, and I'm still going without having to go "Wait, about to crash, running away!"

As for where the damage is coming from?
- Blazing Aura
- Consume
- FE (a build up other sets don't have)
- Burn
- ROTP, if needed
- and the entire secondary. Which *is* buffed by FE, even if it's not /fire. Or did you forget that?

Yes, other sets have "a damage aura." Grabbing the average damage numbers @50 in game, no enhancements -
Fire - 9.79
Dark, Elec, Ice, Stone - 8.01
Inv, WP, Shield - no damage aura.

Other damage sources from the primary -
Shield - 141, Shield Charge, KD
Dark - Soul transfer -44.49 damage, stun.

Fire - 186.8 - Burn
17.78 - Consume
222 (3 ticks of 111, but being "average," of course...) ROTP

You're showing more and more that you dont' know what you're talking about. Bad Mez protection? Same 12.98@50 to common mezzes as most other tanks, doesn't require another toggle to run, isn't a click (that you must slot for recharge so it overlaps and gives you some -recharge protection, barring immob) ... Which "bad mez protection" is this? Don't like burn, grab an IO, slot a set, take CJ, you've got other options. Take TP, Stone tanks do it all the time. Can't immobilize something that doesn't actually move.

Sounds better than "Must be in contact with ground" (Elec, Grounded, KB and Immob protection,) for instance. (Yes, I know Elec's Grounded is an auto power. Where's the payoff for "Don't fly, don't get caught in someone's Group Fly, etc?")

Funny how nobody has said a power like build up is a defensive power. Go ahead, keep setting up ridiculous little strawmen. I'll help - "Hey, look, Brawl doesn't add to my defense either! Oh damn!" Yet, what you choose to ignore, FE boosts *all* damage for 10 seconds, and all fire damage by 100% for 20.

Of course, you don't actually want to discuss anything here, which you're making more and more obvious. Learn the set for the set itself, not for "how it isn't (insert set here.)"

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

Or maybe I don't try to play FA like Invuln, WP or Stone. Similarly, I don't try to play Stone (or any other set) like Fire - not even the "closest" to it, Dark (which is more of a control-y tank and busy in toggle management.) I've experience with multiple sets, Tank, Scrapper, and Brute (I'd add Stalker where they share sets, but those get adjusted far more, not least to fit in Hide.)

But, hey, just go around complaining it isn't like Stone, Ice, etc, despite those being designed for a completely different purpose, and call anyone disagreeing delusional and the direct statement of what it's designed for a lie. Of course, if you care to read, I said "Perhaps you don't do well with the set." That's far different from "you suck." For example, I don't do well with Illusion. I don't like the set. It's not a "control" set for me - direct control. So after giving it a shot or two (full set) I decided it wasn't for me. "Perhaps you don't do well with the set" means precisely that. Fire calls for a different playstyle than other tanks. If that playstyle's not for you, don't play it. Seems pretty straightforward. But hey, go ahead and take it as an insult instead of an observation.

The only thing that ever had my Fire tank worried was recharge debuffs, and that's been adjusted (plus, optionally, you can pick up an IO for it to reinforce that.) And the only thing I see that should be adjusted is Burn, which - since some do use it for mitigation - should probably have a slow added, a la hot feet.

Edit:

Honestly, I like the range of options tanks have for primaries. From heavy defense/resist (invuln, ice, stone) all the way to heavy offense (comparitively - aka fire,) a touch of control (Dark,) and we've been getting more of the range in between filled in (Shield and Elec, for instance.) And yes, I'm *glad* not every set plays the same. I'd have far fewer tanks if they did. (Same's true for the other ATs, too.)

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

Actually, considering how much I play it, I know no such thing.

Perhaps you just don't do well with the set?

Doesn't seem to be a problem to me. Recharges often enough, and I don't have to hope one's dropped/I have a second to make one/ etc. And how many blues do damage? (There's that "Offensive - Do damage" thing again.)
While I agree burn needs changing, I'm not so whiny as to start throwing around accusations of incompetence.

If you're having problems playing the set, perhaps you should see assistance with it. It's rarely the car's fault if the driver crashes.
It is an *offensive* set, per the developers. I don't need a "One with the shield," it does nothing for me. ROTP lets me get back up *right now,* continue tanking - while damaging the enemy and stunning them, keeping them from doing anything to the rest of my team, on the *rare* occasions it's needed.

You don't like that? Don't play the set.

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

If you purposely die as a tank (barring "for laughs,") you shouldn't be a tank. And ROTP, since you seem to not want to see it as anything but "a rez," gives health back as well as stuns and damages the enemies around you - where's that aggro you're losing? Staggering around, right around you, if the damage portion didn't finish them off first.

Getting back into the fight, *right now,* with decent health/END and aggro that's not going anywhere because the enemies you had around you are stunned/dead? More effective than "TP and wakie, please."
They're not meant to be anywhere near as offensive. Fire is an *offensive* set. Two damage powers, damage components to other powers (Consume, ROTP) and a damage *buff.* Totally different concept than "I don't get hit." Why - stepping out of Tanks for a moment - doesn't SR have a self heal, while Regen does (multiples, in fact, in one form or another?) Is Regen a weak set? Or is it just designed around a different theme?

Edit: Or, to flip things around:
"Invulnerability is obviously one of the weakest offensive sets. Hell, I can stand in the middle of enemies for hours and none of them will be killed by anything more tahn boredom. Even Stone has Mud Pots, at least."

Is Invuln broken or weak... or does it just have a different design goal aimed toward a different playstyle? Should Invuln be changed to fit the Fire/ playstyle?

Geko hasn't been on the game since 2005, so honestly - who cares. It's like saying "Rick Dakan felt this way." What his ideas were *then* have little relevance to the game *now,* other than how much aspirin Castle needs when dealing with powers (such as his stated dislike of Power Boost.) As for Castle calling it weaker and expecting it to be defeated because of it (as opposed to "being more offense oriented," which is not the same as "weaker,") all I can say is - give me a quote.

Does it have layer upon layer of overlapping armor? No. What does it have instead? Damage, and things to help with damage (FE) and survivability (HF, Consume - consume also doing damage.) Some sets survive by making it harder to hit them. Fire survives by making sure nothing is *left* to hit them. (And Dark does via disorients and fears, self buffs and damage.)

Different concept all together.

I far prefer it over "I hope this fight doesn't last too long, or I'm not in the middle of another spawn when I crash," personally. What's your focus - your character or your *team?* Which does ROTP help keep alive?

Plus, quite frankly, I like sets that have people play them *as sets,* not sets that focus people on their Tier9. How many Stone tanks run around almost exclusively in Granite? How many Invulns are focused on Unstoppable (and expect the team to sit and wait post-crash?) (Note I'm not saying *good* tanks, but I do see this far too often to consider it "an occasional new player" or some such.)

I'd hate to see it remodeled so I had no way of coming back while protecting the team, or seeing it nerfed to hell and back. Fortunately, thanks to the cottage rule, it won't be.

The glimpse at Castle's "list" for FA, ca. 2006 (he hasn't really posted much on it since) and reaction to some comments.

(Bolds mine.) Since then - if my timeline is right - HF has been buffed, Temperature protection has been given a recharge debuff resistance/slow resistance, and /we've been given IOs to play with as well. (note the "cannot be more specific at this time" - that time being 07/2006, Inventions being introduced the following year.) He also has commented on FE (the extra damage that goes with /fire is a bonus, an "oh cool," and wouldn't be changed,) and as far as ROTP - again, two words, cottage rule. They won't change the basis of a power. (Which, if I'm reading other comments correctly, this sort of change would lead to.)

Originally Posted by macskull

Fire/Fire is okay, but Fire/Regen is currently number one for a reason. If you're playing well, you should never die on a Regen outside of a massive coordinated spike. Fire lacks the KB protection and only has the one self-heal.

Regarding Stalkers: most Stalkers will self-cap their stealth (Hide, Stealth, +stealth IO), but it's somewhat more difficult to self-cap your perception. If you're got a set with perception built-in (SR, Willpower, Ice, for example) it's easier but FA, Tactics, and the +perception IO should get you pretty close. I13 really messed with the solo kill ability of a Stalker (between DR on damage, free base resistances for just about everyone, and a massive reduction in the PvP damage scale of AS, BU + AS likely won't take off more than 800-1000 HP on a squishy). Your worry these days is all the Stalkers spamming Spirit Shark (standard ranged attack, crits from hide, very high damage due to its long activation time), and the changes to the mez system mean you're going to be in for a world of hurt if there's a mezzer teamed with multiple Stalkers.

If you haven't PvPd since I8, you'd best familiarize yourself with the changes made since I13 as PvP is a very different game than it was three years ago.

Originally Posted by Siolfir

Except that ET animates slower (120% of the animation time before accounting for Arcanatime). And does damage to you. And comes around much later in the character's build. I guess that one's a positive, though, since that means you're not hitting yourself for as many levels!

Random thought: how about capping the self-damage to the mob's remaining hit points at the time that the damage is applied? That way if the mob is already dead you only waste the animation time, the same as all of the other attacks in the game.