New Dawn

You are silly, you keep coming up with silly analogies to something you just do not get. You have no idea of what possible outcomes can be had by watching different various players solo similar instances other than perhaps what you already think you know, which to me is silly.

Just so you know, just because farmers are asked to be watched, doesn't mean someone is looking to do something with farmers in mind.

Being as it you clearly didn't get my opinion is it worth me discussing things with you. My opinion is that it all depends on how a player builds and slots as to whether they are endurance efficient. That's not me saying that they can't.

If you wrote the complete guide on PBs I am going to put a fiver down that you would of missed something therefore this "they're not doing what they're designed to do as well as they should" is questionable.

Tell me as a PB player, someone who has used every single PB power, someone with an almost pure PB build apart from hasten what my PB is designed to do. I know what mine is designed to do. I designed her. If yours doesn't do what you want it to then join the club of many who all have their different ideas.

Data is often bollocks because there is one build designed to do X well being compared to another designed to do Y well.



You might look at this as a mud wrestling match but for me it's just something I do, yet do not know why I bother half the time with much more important stuff to get on with.


Your failure, you designed your toon. The Devs have a concept and sometimes it's just not what people think it should be but even so that concept has to stay true for the sake of the cottage rule. I see PBs trying to take damage when they didn't have to. Devs can't play the toons for people.


Men are naturally competitive. If you seperate boys from girls at school they can perform better by being taught differently. Boys aren't doing as well as they used to in British schools because they're being taught in a way that doesn't drive them.

Yes the idea is to bring them into equal terms. Equal terms will never be this one idea that suits all. You might never be happy because when they've decided on what equal is, it's still not what you wanted. I am trying to watch a sample of the player base solo the most rewarding content of their choice which is challenging and reaping to try and see what might not be equal to me, or you, or anyone but still be on average equal.

You can make a warshade what farms, keeps three fluffies out over 90% of the time and basically clean up. It can be done. There is no bad light there. If I fail to fix a car with all the right tools at my disposal its not the tools fault its mine. That's actually where I see alot of people. If they can't do something, it can't be done therefore the Devs need to change the set so they can do it nevermind what other people can and can't achieve. So this looking at different farmers is actually looking at player skill. There is a said expectation from players that sometimes is true and sometimes its false. I remember when it was said Ice tanks couldn't tank LR yet there was SR scrappers doing it..weird. In deciding whether or not something needs a buff you have to look at what players can actually achieve imo. What is the average achievement? The bigger the sample of players the better.

I am not actually arguing. I've seen you farm once. I want to see you farm but this time with a WS and this time what goes on tour stays on tour. You'll be doing me a favour and as a result whatever the outcome its private.

I've always maintained that warshades are way down the list of my best toons. It's like the AT I occasionally think about when I am trying to get my concept right. Moving on, I have seen some warshades farm, and got myself an average expectation of what can actually be achieved in terms of dps from different players, including Alien One.

When you farm are we talking 3 pets out pretty much constantly and the more important thing you get them to enter cone range almost immediately so that they do not just sit there and ST. You do make yourself out to be a great Warshade player and you do farm. If you are the best. I'll see the best result so far.

Look at what your quoting. I am saying that in teams the survivability of the dark extractions is easier achieve but the nigh maximum dps potential is still hard to achieve. This is because them pets often end up single targeting away rather than use their cones even when they could. Sometimes when cones are used they may only hit one or two, sometimes the cones won't be used due to player error, the players position within mobs has brought the pets only within range in which to single target and so the maximum dps from them in theory is often unachieveable. What is achieveable, (lets spread it across the player base and get an average here) is well below maximum potential possibly not causing warshades to outshine peacebringers in terms of xp/time or rewards over time as much as people think and if they do not then why do the devs feel the need to buff peacebringers? If they do but by only a little then subtle changes maybe made overtime until everything looks about right.

It's alright people percieving things from their own little group of squares but what people achieve outside of those cliques and on some other server does matter.

I think you had the chance to do the farm of choice afterwards, prove a point and never did. I could ask Cagney right this second to back me up on it. With your WS you can do the farm of choice. Alien One has already farmed for me. It proved useful. What went on tour stayed on tour. I wasn't the one trying to back you into a corner, he (Cagney) was. You males tend to have this ego worth protecting or some sort of competitiveness towards eachother if you ask me. So what if I am sexist.

No it isn't at all. You're comparing xp/time potential between warshades and peacebringers. That's not hard to do. You are also eliminating fiction from fact. There is what people say they can do and what can actually be done. Several farms from several people gives a sample. Devs may just see how fast people level with PBs or gain reward over time with PBs and compare that with WS's to know which is lagging. It may take time to work out in which way something is lagging or it may take time to choose the most original conceptually based means to reduce the difference in performance. I wouldn't expect every single change to come down to raising a sets damage level or changing its defense as they are quick obvious cut and paste ideas players come up with, a change might be adding secondary effect resistance for something subtle and then allowing time to see improvement.

I watched your Blaster do that farm with Cagney for the entirety of it. The pain, omg the pain. I even spoke to you briefly from Cagney, just you would of never of known but note I was pleasant. Anyway I do realise that we are not talking pro farmer but it can farm, just like your blaster can manage to farm. Usually with most peoples PBs they are limited by endurance, you rechg the snot out of them, use the strongest DPAs asap which means attacks that each keep costing endurance even more often, replenishment is not so simple. PBs have the potential to out DPS a WS but are limited by endurance and the fact they Kb mobs outside of the range of their attacks, there are clickies for survival that do no damage but take away from dps and then to top it off if WS Extractions do a lot of surviving and cone attacks then there is a real difference. I'd like to see your WS farm, I'd like to see how much survivability/cone damage your Extractions can achieve whilst you're powering through some mobs. This may help me finalize my ideas on what should be done to a PB next.

I do min/max, I do use excel and some of the top bar to what I do looks like this. Just some of it. But expectations on sheets =! expectations in game:

Power Cast time Eff Dur(s) EPC DPC Rch DPE DPA Freq DPS Buff DPE Buff DPC Buff DPA Buff DPS DPS*Buff Dur DPS*0buff Dur Ave DPS Max Targets Pot BDPS EPA Max E EPS Time to 0E0ER MaxDPend bar Max Usage Rnd Up Max Cast DPA AoE

PBs are in general governed by how people slot. This means yours might not have endurance problems but somebody elses will in trying to keep up with a WS. It is also based on power picks and consistent use of powers. Generally PBs do not have the means to achieve WS levels of persistence.

The Data is bollocks to me, contrary to peoples beliefs I do use excel. I do it differently to how others do it. I don't have this concept where PBs take ST powers and WS take AoEs and they should be balanced when it comes to XP/time and with whatever concept I do have I do realise that there is what can be said on paper and what can be had ingame. Everyone has percieved opinions.

I see that between the two ATs, if a full team was made up of them then potentially the pre-incarnate game is a walk over, you do not need other ATs but this is only if certain powers aren't skipped by everyone. There is a package. The PB will provide for the WS where a WS can not provide for itself and visa versa. As a package, great. I don't feel I need to be told why certain powers are there and what they can be used for. All the skippable fluff isn't entirely skippable fluff to me. Holistically they are there, and getting improved in the right ways. I could easily look back at the changes and think "that was the correct change to make" and also think "it is better to allow for further datamining before more changes" and I simply do have the patience for that and trust the Devs to take them in the right direction rather than pop my head in every two weeks and start a new thread on how to fix kheldians.

When you reduce the animation times you might have to take from an aesthetically pleasing graphic animation. Something that maybe can't really happen even for budget/priority reasons so there can be limits there. Then there is the fact that you will recover less endurance over that animation which may impede people anyway in a long enough fight therefore achieving so little in terms of DPS or fight duration that it's not making it really worth the change. Overall all sets have this issue. PVP has been fought and won over the number of attacks that can be dealt within a build up period. DPA really applies to burst. Dawn Strike and Photons used consecutively are already a great deal of burst.


In whose arena? In a Royal Rumble I expect a WS to do well but in a two men enters one man leaves cage match I expect the PB to do well. They're not meant to exist for the same reasons, they're meant to compliment eachother and they do.

I know how to do it, but in watching people farm in general most people do not achieve this. I'd be very happy to watch you farm, because going back literally months I haven't seen that many WS players farm and get the maximum potential from the Extractions.

I can bump to any server or perhaps already be on it.

However in teams with someone else taking the aggro this is easier to do but still people do not achieve nigh maximum dps potential from the pets as easily as they could photon seekers. On paper it can look as though WS far out gun PBs and with easily played farming, but in reality for most of the entire player base maybe not. Maybe the only thing Devs will care about as far as balance is possibly concerned is what the playerbase as a whole are achieving rather than the one or two exceptional Pro's.

I didn't know that.

I do have every support set upto 4 times over. Actually I just don't have thermal rad on a defender but I have that on a corrupter, controller and MM instead.

We can either sit in our chairs like a fat school boy doing our homework and look at the figures or get out there like an athlete and give our best efforts actually playing all the sets.

The problem with TA might not actually be anything other than the problem when it comes to buffs versus debuffs.

Other than that it's right tools at the right time versus mobs employing the right tactics. TA can employ different debuffs which all pseudo stack in fairly quick succession allowing aggro or not allowing aggro. As one of the right honourable gentleman above said you FA - no aggro then PA for some aggro but you can always EMP and own. I think its nice to have a natural defender but I really don't get our characters getting an end crash after EMP. It also feels like one of them defender sets that can obliterate spawns quite quickly.

In doing that we probably won't be able to have 2 out at a time because they won't want a whole swarm of them.

I have every powerset now. I am of the opinion atm, that they should work on new sets. I won't even bring up my beef with Sonic.

New sets equal more money, renewed interest. Old sets mean something to sit on a bit longer, perhaps figure out a bit better until the day when players finally get all the incarnates available.

Looking at it there is a survivability option that it can't always resort to that those other sets can so it needs to be strong in terms of -Dam and +Regen. Comparing it to Dark Armour I would say that it is ballpark there. My worry is, is this going to prove overly interesting in PvP?

Incarnate content should also mean that there is ample diversification of support. I would hope the leader mixed and matched people well. I think as it is I will have all types of Tankers at 50 doing the same content spotting the differences very soon which has always been my goal.

There is a possible downside to this. I would have to leave it to the weekend to check as I am an awfully busy person during the week but I would rather double check what I believe the downside to be as its been years since I looked into it but its to do with a Tanker being a SK to say a Brute and fighting +4s.


Some say Brutes are OP like me and some say they're not. There are terms in which some ATs are OP and some are not, it could be subtle as in aggro control, or it could be extravagant as in tankmaging through tailor made farms like Godzilla through Tokyo. With myself not being a true farmer and oblivious to the reward system I just concern myself with the aggro control potential.

Just a small interjection in the hopes that one day people might agree with me on this but when you add in secondary effects to an attack, defense is of more value. This is perhaps why some resistance powers recieved buffs such as res to (insert secondary effect here) sometime ago but I am doubtful.

Yeah I promoted the idea of SR tanks way back in 2006. I'd like to see a better taunt aura though.