Nalrok_AthZim
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Quote:Whoa there buddy, let's not go Marvel here.Originally Posted by Agent79
"You grow bored and use your awesome power to remake the universe just the way it was before you destroyed (took over) the world. Perhaps you'll do it again." -
Quote:But not every villain wants there to be no world. That's the point. Whenever we get involved with a nefarious plot, it's never our own. It's someone else's. And when we're one step from passing through the door to victory, some NPC in whatever story arc we're in shuts the door in our face.Originally Posted by Dark Energon
What good is it to rule the world, when there is no world to rule?
"Requiem must die, hero. We cannot get to him directly. You will have to join the Council. You will have to earn his trust. You will have to follow his orders. And when he trusts you enough, you will have to stab him in the back."Quote:Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I'd like to see HEROES have to be EVIL for once. Yeah, not happening.
Credibility destroyed. I'll reply to your post anyways.Quote:Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
I love all the QQ from wannbe RPers that complain about the game not fitting THIER character rather then trying to create a character that fits the WORLD.
But this is also THE most flexible MMO in the industry, with the most freedom and a dev team that actually listens. Gameplay mechanics don't have any bearing on this post, nor your argument, so leave them out of it.Quote:Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
Let me break it down, if this was a table top RPG like saying beloved D&D, then although sure you got some pretty large control over the character you want to play, there are limits, pre set definations of various aspects of the multi verse of the game you choose to play in.
So when the Rularuu come, the game is over? You might want to rethink that point of view, since you just hopped in the 'delete your character' wagon.Quote:Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
With the above in mind, there is NO way for anyone to survive the release of the Rularuu. Think multi dimensional Galactus for those not into the LORE of it all. NOTHING can actually match its power directly and the only reason even the mightiest incarnates can last there is thanks to the Kind One known as Faathim, the single aspect of Rularuu that possesses a feeling we can expect aid from.
Which only bolsters my original point: villainy isn't villain-y enough.Quote:Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
This game is not mature rated, so frankly be thankful they give even the watered down evil options. Especially when you look at the sheer lack of activity Red Side.
Faction activity has nothing to do with my post.Quote:Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
I run alot of TFs on virtue, never have any issue filling them up timely, I go red side, and I cant even count on most on my global friends list as very few didnt go all the way blue to persue hero merits while enjoying the more active population of paragon. I myself am rogue or vig on nearly every character but sadly few are.
So because less people play villains, it's okay to give those that do less? Do you really think the dev team looks at redside in the same way the census looks at the homeless? Come on, man. Screw your head on straight before you say something like that.Quote:Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
Devs can see the stats concerning server population and activity and no doubt have been aware for some time how little interest a game originally titled as a game of heroes managed to really attract with thier red side addition.
I'd love to see your sources.Quote:Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
Sure many love the ATs, they where designed with the more current game we have then the hero ATs, frequently the vil ATs are the better choice for solo or pvp orientated play. Simply put there is little real reason for them to work on making red side more villainous, when most red siders turn blue at the first oppurtunity. And now few even bother to start red side at all.
You're telling me that because you don't care about villainside, no one should, and I'm not going to listen to that.Quote:Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
Dont get me wrong, I am glad we have it, the option, the ability to play rogue or VIG, all are great aspects that expand our games world and make the younger kid that is champion online tremble in awe at our intimidating vastness.
If what I'm reading from you is correct:Quote:Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos
But most of the people asking here, mainly from what seems an RP perspective, are not trying to be good RPers rather they are trying to treat this game like a single player RPG with the ability to pick and choose what mods should be added. In an MMO your just a small part of a much bigger world. Sure you can try to become mighty enough to yell at the sky and make it hear you, but certainly dont expect it to.
-Redside should be ignored because of low population.
-Redside story arcs/missions should be bland and disappointing because no one cares about RP, just gameplay.
-Redside really isn't worth anything because "no one plays it."
Right?
What an incredibly ignorant and unfair way of looking at the game. I'm glad I don't game with you. -
Quote:I personally hate any other MMO because of how travel is handled. Take Blizzard's Gorilla, for instance.Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
I didn't realize how much I missed travel powers until I returned to some old MMOs for a very short time.
1-39: Run, unless you're a specific class.
40: Spend an absurd amount of cash buying a travel power.
41: Spend an absurd amount of cash (and a quest) LEARNING HOW TO USE SAID POWER.
42-60: Spend an inconceivable amount of cash to buy an 'epic' travel power.
60: Spend even more frivolous amounts of cash to buy a flying travel power.
60: Spend even even more frivolous amounts of cash to TRAIN TO FLY THE POWER.
70: Spend money on the most expensive thing in the entire game to buy an 'epic' flying travel power.
City of Heroes:
Hit level 4. -
Quote:Thank you. I don't want to end the world, let alone the in-game world. I'm just tired of being knocked back down the totem pole by NPCs and/or told to sit in the corner while my 'benefactors' think of something else to do.Originally Posted by Arbiter_Shade
Wow this topic is rampant with straw man arguments and now hate for PvP! It is like we have regressed back to...well what this game has always been, people saying, "play my way or get out!"
Have any of you people read this topic? Seriously? A LOT of post have been made about how to make villainous arcs that do not involve "blowing up the world." In fact I don't think there are any post that seriously defend the notion that villains should blow up the world and most people are just saying, "why can't my villain ever do ANYTHING?" There are a couple of arcs where villains DO but they are the minority, such as Westen Phipps, and the "greater good" excuse is running dry. That is what people are saying! Not that they want to destroy the world, they just want to be what they are paying to play as, a villain.
I only used the notion that some of my villains would end the world to show that we don't get enough truly villainous work; I'm pretty amazed how everyone wrenched my words around and turned the topic into 50% PvP hate and 50% "VILLAINS HAVE TO LOSE OR ELSE THE GAME WILL BE DELETED".
It'd be nice if everyone making those 'delete your character' arguments would regain a grip on reality. -
What the watch did I just f***
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Nuclear fleas.
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Quote:Dillo?
Matt Miller: We have another surprise left to tell in the first Signature Story Arc, as well as putting a previously minor character (who is much beloved) into the spotlight as a full-fledged hero in their own right. 
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Quote:Oh don't you even put that on me.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Nalrok AthZim just gave the same answer a couple of post earlier.
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Quote:Dead.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So what does that make War Witch?
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Quote:Originally Posted by Venture
Yes, it does, because if you try to score a touchdown in bowling UR DOIN IT WRONG.
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That's bizarre. I've had .org in my bookmarks for a LONG time now and this is the first time this has happened. Maybe one of the wiki's redirect services expired?
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((... have you read The Gray Man?))
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Quote:Try this on for size:Originally Posted by Lulipop
Not if all parties understand that griefing is part of it. I mean there's no way around it if they did implement something of that nature. Not really one sided either unless the other team is built specifically for annoyance rather than fighting. I'd personally jump into the frey everyday until it was nerfed just to find a way to tick off hero players, just like a villain should.
At the start of one of these missions, a select player or two get a choice unseen by the rest of the team. When the mission starts, REGARDLESS of if the chosen players said "yes" or "no", a dialogue will display:
Be warned! A member of your team may not be trustworthy!
And then, if the chosen players do choose to betray the team, they can do it at any point, or not at all.
... or something similar. That's not ALL it would be, but a system put together like that would be awesome!
But for heroes, contacts and civilians come to them saying "Oh Hero, something awful has happened and I know you're the only one who can save us!" (Except for Roy Cooling, who opens up with "HANDS ON YOUR HEAD YOU DAMN DIRTY APE!")Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You could just as easily argue that heroside players get to be lackeys that do nothing but stop a villain, sometimes after its too late, and return everything back to the status quo. The heroes do not get to permanently improve the world in any significant fashion, and the notion that heroism is about the status quo is equally suspect as villainy being about destroying it. Sometimes the villain wants to preserve the status quo, because the status quo is what works best for them - I mentioned Phipps above, and he's the posterboy example of someone exercising villainy not by trying to destroy the status quo and therefore losing, but trying to preserve the status quo and therefore winning (and in spectacularly nauseating fashion besides).
With villains, we get:
-"Do this for me and you'll be all powerful." (The only contact who delivers on this is Vincent Ross; the rest either say "I meant powerful later, sorry" or "Haha tricked you, you suck."
-"Run back and forth across the Isles then fight a group trying to steal my crap."
-"Yeah, Black Scorpion's being a huge jerk. If you don't want Arachnos to kill you dead, go beat him up."
-"You were actually working for Nemesis."
-"All that stuff you did just got stolen/blown up/confiscated by heroes."
-"I'll call you later about that power and money." (And except for Silman, THEY NEVER DO) -
Quote:I'd love to see this. It'd be a great way to revive interest in PvP.Originally Posted by Lulipop
What this game needs is a possibility for mission interruptions.
Make a mission that heroes run that Villains can join in at the ''worst'' possible time to complicate things. Or a ''betray'' option, or something fun that can spoil the mission. The villains will have to deal with not getting loot for doing it, and the heroes will have to take it all in stride.
Or make a trial like instance where 1/2 are heroes (4), and (4) are villains; enter on opposite sides and turn it into a PVP brawl with tasks on either side that are needed to be completed before a timer runs out, or something.
I also think villains being ushered towards heroism is a tad ridiculous. -
Quote:That's not what I'm asking at all, though I think you have the gist of it down. What I really want to see is more villainy. Every time our villains are about to take that final step into glory, some storyline-important NPC steps in and does one of the following:Originally Posted by Zwillinger
please understand that we cannot take each and every character, origin or backstory into account. Don't get me wrong, we would *love* to give you all the opportunity to take over or destroy the world, but unfortunately that particular story telling mechanism is a bit difficult to convey outside of a medium like console games.
-Sells you out, making you the fall guy
-Laughs in your face and tells you you've just been doing his errands
-Sits back down and says "and now we wait"
It's not satisfying at all. Heroside, players get the satisfaction of stopping the bad guys and saving the day. Villainside, players get to be lackeys for bigger villains and, afterward, are politely told to go home and wait for the next opportunity.
If we DO get that next opportunity, it's the contact going "ZOMG THERE'S SOMETHING HUGE AND EVIL, MORE EVIL THAN YOU AND I, YOU NEED TO GO TEAM UP WITH THE HEROES OR THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS GOING TO DIIIIIIE" and we get directed to the nearest co-op zone. -
I'd love for this to happen, especially for my Stalkers.
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Quote:True statement. First thing through your mind ought to be "I can do better than that guy! So I will!"Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
yeah, nothing makes me want to play my tankers more than playing on a team with a bad one.
Or are you a glass half-empty guy? -
Quote:Because the storywriters' track record doesn't bestow confidence.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I haven't seen WWD1.5 red because it isn't on paragonwiki yet, heh, but I have run the old Darrin Wade arc and in my personal opinion he doesn't seem like the kind of dude you'd want to join up with. As a matter of fact, he seems like he would kill anyone for any reason at the drop of a hat. I don't foresee that being emphasized any less in part 6 now that he has demigodly power. Why not give them a chance to show you what happens rather than assuming the worst based on one comment about something we won't see for two months?
If Supervillain A was going to push the red button to destroy the world, at least 4 of my characters would knock him aside and push the button themselves, laughing until the lights went out.Quote:Originally Posted by Lothic
While most sane villains would likely "play ball" and be nice in situations like this I do agree with Nalrok_AthZim that it would be nice if we at least had a "choice" to be insanely suicidally evil once in a while.
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Quote:And at the end, we're once again told "but now you're not the big dog anymore and you have to stop the new big dog for the greater good." No. Screw that. What if, instead of stopping him, we were given the choice to join him (we get a similar dialogue option FROM him, but the responses we can pick from boil down to 'no') and then later stab him in his trenchcoat-wearing back? Nope. We have to be good little boys and girls and save the universe. Oh goody.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
For giggles I just read through parts one through four of WWD villain edition on paragonwiki. It seems to me that they've been going all-out on giving you exactly what you want. In fact, those aren't the only recent arcs where villains get some kind of rad temp power prize or nifty hare-brained scheme to pull off while the hero equivalents remain as stolid as ever in terms of their focus on "go here, be good." It seems to me that you are complaining about the possibility that you may have to fight another villain at the end of Who Will Die before you even know word two about what will happen.
I understand it just fine and I'd appreciate it if you didn't talk down to me as if you've somehow earned an award for being a better human being than I am. Capische? Capische.Quote:Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Is this really that hard for you to understand? Wade double crossed you, you want to go kill him. They're clearly going to let you do that, but that isn't good enough because heroes also want to stop him? Please.
Up until SSA5, the player's villain was the one making headlines and busting skulls. Wade and Malaise were working alongside you, twisting their fingers into their own threads, but you were the guy/girl making the big moves and making it all happen.
In SSA5 you show up to Wade's little mid-storm get together and watch him kill States. That's it! No lead-up, no surprise, you just walk up and watch him die.
Next thing you know Wade's monologuing and you have to fight him. FOR THE GREATER GOOD.
Exactly! You're exactly right. But we really haven't had that option! It may seem like we do in this current SSA, but the outcome still benefits the enemies of our characters, which is something villains don't want. What redside needs is a way to crush Wade, crush their enemies (sing if you want) and take that power for themselves, NOT destroy it 'for the greater good.'Quote:Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
What about the motivation you mentioned in your OP? Durwood took the power that is rightfully yours. What self-respecting villain is goning to sit back and let that slide? -
Great answer and great substance/explanation.
I'm getting sick of that argument too. What if my character can slip into the space-time continuum? What if my character's from an ALTERNATE universe? What if, instead of feeding us the same "But you'll die too" crap we've been getting since the Rikti invasion, the storywriters allowed villains more flexibility than just "do it because it's the right thing to do"? How about that? -
Quote:Praetoria?Originally Posted by UberGuy
It's like someone from an alternate universe came here and posted about a CoH that had the same ATs, but that all functioned differently than ours do, and whose players acted differently than ours actually do.
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According to the recent interview with Positron, the players involved in the SSA "will be at the vanguard of stopping [Darrin Wade] from destroying the entire planet."
Seriously?
For four arcs, villains get to be actual villains instead of someone's errand boy/a greater villain's lackey/the fall guy. Now it looks like we're being corn holed into "the greater good" AGAIN.
I'm getting really sick of this pseudo-evil garbage the storywriters keep jamming down the throats of myself and my villains. We only get to see the fruits of our labor in the success of other villains. It even happened with Wade! Villains spend all this time with Wade while he says "Just do this thing for me and you'll get some seriously awesome power later" and, once again, the contact turns it around on us.
Now, we'll be "at the vanguard" of stopping Wade. Great! My villains always wanted to play the hero! Wait, no. They don't. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE VILLAINS.
Where have we seen this before?
-Heroes fight the Rikti to save the world. Villains can aid the heroes for the greater good.
-Heroes fight the Fifth Column and the Cimeroran Traitors to stop their meddling with power and save the world. Villains can aid the heroes for the greater good.
-Heroes can stop Snaptooth/Lady Winter from keeping the world in eternal frost and frozen time and save the world. Villains can aid the heroes for the greater good.
-Heroes can fight Praetoria to stop their invasion of Primal Earth and save the world. Villains... can... aid the heroes... for the greater.... ugh.
Is anyone else getting tired of being labeled a hero at the last minute? Some REAL villainy would be nice. Killing Alexis Cole-Duncan? Hell yes. Roughing up Johnny Sonata so he'll record a song capable of trashing Sister Psyche's brain? Alright then! Firing a warhead at Paragon to get the attention of big-name heroes just so they'll look the other way? DAMN RIGHT!
.... having to fight Darrin Wade so he won't destroy the universe because "it's the right thing to do"? What crap. -
No.
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Quote:You and Diesel Punk need to talk. The arguments would smash together at light speed and destroy the universe.Originally Posted by The Katalyst
Don't question the Tank, he is always right. How dare you.